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Pay Your Tithe OR Spend Eternity In Hell?

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by Fire-7, Mar 31, 2011.

  1. Fire-7

    Fire-7 New Member

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    I don't know if you have ever read "Heaven Is So Real", by Choo Thomas (who claimed to have seen John Lenon, and her own mother in Hell), but there is a point in her accounts where she references a moment that Jesus told her, in so many words, that christians who didn't pay tithe were destined for hell, because they were being "disobedient." It's a terrifying thought, but it doesn't make much since. If this account is the ruth, this would mean that you have to pay your way into Heaven. There's no other way you can spin it or manipulate it to say something other than salvation has a price tag. Even Mary K Baxter ("Divine Revelation of Hell") alluded to the same possibility. Both women's accounts were endorsed by two very credible men of G-d--one being T.L. Lowery and the other, David Yonggi Cho (pastor of the world's largest church).

    But what does this say about Faithful christians who don't believe in tithing. My own pastor being one who, in an effort to get a word from G-d on how to properly teach people TO tithe, was told by G-d that tithing was a modern day deception, and now is adamantly against the practice. Whar does this say about the great preachers around the world who are so certain that tithing is not of G-d, that G-d Himself woul have to physically get off of His throne, come down to earth, point His finger in their face and tell them that they are in error? This tithing thing is just making no sense to me. It's another one of those things that is confusing, to say the least.
     
  2. gregg

    gregg New Member

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    fire-7 consider tithing a word of the past, and look at it as paul said- fruit that may abound towards your account. :rolleyes:
     
  3. Joshua David

    Joshua David New Member

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    I have read the book, and I am still a little up in the air about what I thought about it. There were some parts that seemed good, but then there were other parts that didn't really agree with my spirit. As far as tithing goes, I see it as important. We are to support the church. I see that as a way for God to bless you. But tithing like taking the Lord's supper, like baptism, like 'going to church', or singing in the choir, is a work. Some works are more important than others, but they are all works. And we are saved by grace through faith, not of works. I do not believe that my Salvation is based on works.

    Joshua David

     
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  4. Robbie

    Robbie New Member

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    I agree... please make all Tithes payable to Robbie Crawford....haha
     
  5. WhiteKnuckle

    WhiteKnuckle New Member

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    2 corinthians 9:7


    Some believe in Tithes, and that's fine. Some like the old law and that's fine. For me and many others we agree that the old law is not part of the New Covenant.
     
  6. religusnut

    religusnut New Member

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    You can slice it dice it or take it any way you choose. The fact of the matter is that a man that refuses to tithe is a God Robber. Mal 3:10. Ask your self the question can you live off of 90% that is blessed easier than you can 100% that is not. Tithing is the only thing in the Bible that I personally can remember that God tells us to test Him on.

    In these last days there are lots of people that will use about any means they can find to distort the Word of God. A person that refuses to tithe is only robbing himself of a blessing.
    What gets so many people messed up is that the things that they rant about that they do not want to do for obedience are not about salvation so much as sanctification. Whether they tithe or don't tithe is not the heaven issue. Jesus paid the price for salvation. The things of obedience are for our benefit.
     
  7. Duckybill

    Duckybill New Member

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    As far as going to Hell for not tithing goes, nah. But being merciful is mentioned.

    Matthew 25:41-46 (NKJV)
    [sup]41 [/sup]Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: [sup]42 [/sup]for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; [sup]43 [/sup]I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.' [sup]44 [/sup]Then they also will answer Him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?' [sup]45 [/sup]Then He will answer them, saying, 'Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.'[sup]46 [/sup]And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

     
  8. rjp34652@yahoo.com

    [email protected] Choir Loft

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    I agree with you. I could be wrong, but I do not know of ANY passage in the Bible which condemns a man to the eternal fires for lack of financial reimbursement to the tabernacle, temple or church. There's lots said about the love of money as well as being cheap with your coin, but no condemning law about donations. Maybe it's the unwritten eleventh commandment we keep hearing about, "thou shalt give 10%".

    In fact, tithing is never mentioned in the New Testament at all. Preachers like to teach salvation by grace, but forget all about it when it comes to donations. It's such a sticky subject that the wisest of shepards prefer to leave that speech to one of the elders (and take the day off completely). I heard one preacher, who was strapped for funds, say that if a man didn't give his 10% he owed an additional 10% interest on the first donation. He quoted chapter and verse. I dare say that if that particular law was still in effect we'd all be pretty screwed. Between the bankers and the preachers we'd have nothing left for our families.

    BTW I do remember a passage in the O.T. where the priests asked the people to STOP GIVING. Don't recall any sermons about that one, do you? The modern preacher always has one hand on the Bible and the other in someone else's pocket (or somewhere else in their pants as the case may be). Sex and money. It's always about sex and money.

    As an aside, I'd like to share a bit of advice from one of my old bosses. I was beginning to do some extra work on the side in the hopes of starting my own business and I asked my boss for advice. His previous employer had been the Walt Disney company and he advised me "never work for the giant rat". He also advised me never to work for a bank or a church. I followed his advice for the entertainment and financial industry, but broke it when I worked in the religion business. After being screwed to the tune of twenty five thousand I walked out. Don't get me wrong. My faith is stronger than ever, I attend church regularly and even donate my money and time, but I will NEVER WORK for a church group again.

    Anybody who says tithing is some kind of law or that one is in danger of hellfire because they didn't write checks on a regular basis has convinced himself of a lie and is doing his family a disservice.

    Here's a caution for you all. I have learned that most medium and large churches hire a THIRD PARTY to maintain a database of their membership and contributions. The service provides a mailing list for bulletins and those once or twice a year boxes of little donation envelopes. In most cases the church staff IS COMPLETELY UNABLE to delete entries from the membership database. I learned this one time when I moved away from a large church I had attended. I kept getting bulletins, letters and those little boxes in the mail. When I repeatedly asked the church office staff to remove my name from the mailing list they told me very politely that they couldn't do that and to "just treat it as junk mail". Only after repeated requests to the head paster was my record expunged.

    I just have one worry now. WHO ELSE DOES THE THIRD PARTY SHARE THEIR DATABASE WITH? There was some debate about it during George W. Bush's reelection campaign when certain members of the committee to reelect the president tried to access those records. The only way to avoid getting your name on this database is to make your contributions in cash only. Most folks just write a check, but a single check is sufficient to get you "on the grid". My son and I visited a different church once, just to see what their service was like. Like an idiot I put a check in the offering. Guess what happened? Now I'm getting all sorts of junk in the mail from those people and I can't stop it. They are completely unwilling (or unable?) to delete my info from their database.

    Your money is your business and what you give or don't give is also your business. The problem today is that even after your money has left your hand as a gracious gift it can come back to bite you. Be generous, but be informed AND BE WISE.
     
  9. Duckybill

    Duckybill New Member

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    Yeah : ) Some preachers would have us to believe that we might go to Hell if we don't support them.
     
  10. WhiteKnuckle

    WhiteKnuckle New Member

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    Somewhere in the NT (sorry, I can't remember) it says, we shouldn't show up empty handed. It also says that we should support the preachers. Paul made mention of the fact that he and another worked for a living, yet wanted people to support the leaders of the church.

    The whole point of a tithe in the OT was the same. The reason it's not a command now is because of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit that leads us to do as we should and as we have a means.

    If you have bills to pay, and have just enough to pay them, and no extra for the church, then pay your bills. It's pretty simple.

    If you believe you should tithe, or that it's a sin not to, then you're also correct for yourself. Infact, if you believe it's a sin not to tithe and you don't, yep, it's a sin.

    I seriously need to get some scripture quotes together to show why I have my view points. On that I appologize for not being a better conversationalist.
     
  11. Duckybill

    Duckybill New Member

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    I believe in supporting ministers of God. But I do not support those who beg and plead for my money.
     
  12. Amazing Grace

    Amazing Grace New Member

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    I believe rejection of God's salvation is the reason for ending up in Hell forever.

    There are those who peddle God's Word for profit. These people are really into inducing their followers to put money in the coffers each week.

    I'm sure others here will provide for you the appropriate scriptures.

    Be assured you certainly will not be sent to Hell forever because you cannot tithe.

    God doesn't want or need your money, He wants you to want Him and be reconciled with Him through Christ Jesus.
     
  13. WhiteKnuckle

    WhiteKnuckle New Member

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    Exactly! It's all about having a charitable heart.
     
  14. Amazing Grace

    Amazing Grace New Member

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    You know I was thinking about why some ministers are so bent on preaching tithing. Not all are peddling God's Word for profit.

    I was thinking that these minister may not be looking fully to God for their provision and they want to make sure they get enough each week to meet their needs.

    Your comment WK makes a lot of sense. Many ministers cannot trust that people in their parish/congregation will be charitable enough so they are sort of forcing the giving out of them. Sad.

    You can understand the minister being concerned about getting his needs met. You can understand that people might have little to give after paying for all their bills these days in such hard times.

    Only God can ensure we are all provided for and we really need to Trust in Him not force our provision from others.

    Just some thoughts.

    My apologies for going off topic.


     
  15. WhiteKnuckle

    WhiteKnuckle New Member

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    Perfectly on topic.

    It just goes to show, even preachers need help. :)
     
  16. religusnut

    religusnut New Member

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    You can do it any way that works for you. Many years ago we never had enough. It did not matter how we managed it was not enough. it was like putting water in a bucket with holes in it. At that time we were only giving a small offering. We started tithing straight off the top and everything turned around for us in a short time and ever since we tithe. If you wait till you see if you have enough to give you won't. If you give the tithe first it will work. It always did for me and it has for numerous others that I have taught this principle to. If you refuse to tithe you are robbing yourself of a blessing.
     
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  17. rjp34652@yahoo.com

    [email protected] Choir Loft

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    I agree with you on this one. As for assembling scripture to support the argument, I doubt that any would be accepted if you did.

    I've heard the stories about those who tithed when they were hard up for cash and who claim that a blessing resulted. I've been hard up for cash too, and I didn't resort to milking God for a blessing because I paid my part and deserved something back from heaven.
    God doesn't owe anybody a blessing just because they wrote a check every week.
    The idea that a tithe CAUSES God to bless is absurd.

    Let me say this clearly GOD IS NOT A VENDING MACHINE. You don't automatically get a blessing out when you put a coin in.

    I've had to explain this to people who tithed during hard times and DIDN'T get the blessing they thought they deserved. They were upset and thought that their faith was wrongly committed.
    RUBBISH.
    God will decide what to do with His own stuff. He WILL NOT be manipulated !

    Don't get me wrong here, God DOES indeed bless and I do think that God is pleased with those who give out of the charity of their heart.
    Our part is to perform our DUTY before God and to give WITHOUT STRINGS ATTACHED.

    Give or don't give, but do not think that your action will impede or increase that which flows from Heaven's gates.
    It is our duty to do what God wants, it is God's grace that we are blessed anyway.

    It is a testament to God's good heart that we are often blessed when we don't deserve it at all.

    Let me ask one question. How do you feel when an apparent blessing is witheld?

    Do you think God owes you something because you've been a good giver?
    Are you angry at God?

    Give whatever you want to give, but DON'T give with the idea that you'll EVER get something back for it. That attitude defeats the whole purpose of giving in the first place.
    If giving were an investment, then every dime I ever gave to the church has been wasted.
    If giving is .....a gift.....then there is no expectancy of a return.

    Greed has many forms, not least of which is expecting God to perform a trick for every dollar we part with.
     
  18. Thankful 1

    Thankful 1 New Member

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    Jesus did away with the ten percent Tithing. Jesus called us to give it all to each other.



    (2 Corinthians 8:12-15) “For if the eagerness is there, it is acceptable according to what one has, not according to what one does not have; not that others should have relief while you are burdened, but that as a matter of equality your surplus at the present time should supply their needs, so that their surplus may also supply your needs, that there may be equality. As it is written: "Whoever had much did not have more, and whoever had little did not have less."





    (Mark12: 43-44) “A poor widow came and put in two small coins, the equivalent of a penny. Then he called his disciples and said to them, ‘I tell you solemnly, this poor widow has put more in than all who have contributed to the treasury; for they have all put in money they had over, but she from the little she had has put in everything she possessed, all she had to live on.”





    (Luke 12:33) “Sell your possessions and give alms. Get yourselves purses that do not wear out, treasure that will not fail you, in Heaven where no thief can reach it and no moth destroy it. For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.”



    (Luke 14:33) “So in the same way, none of you can be my disciple unless he gives up all his possessions.”



    (Luke 6: 34-35) “And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' lend to 'sinners,' expecting to be repaid in full. But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back.”



    (Luke 12:16-20) “Then he told them a parable: ‘there was once a rich man who, having had a good harvest from his land, thought to himself, “What am I to do? I have not enough room to store my crops.” Then he said,” This is what I will do: I will pull down my barns and build bigger ones, and store all my grain and my goods in them, and I will say to my soul: My soul, you have plenty of good things laid by for many years to come; take things easy, eat, drink, have a good time”. But God said to him, “Fool! This very night the demand will be make for your soul; and this hoard of yours, whose will it be then?”









    (Matthew 6:24)"No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money.”







    (Luke 12:22) “Then he said to his disciples, ‘that is why I am telling you not to worry about your life and what you are to eat, nor about your body and how you are to clothe it. For life means more than food, and the body more than clothing.”
     
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  19. religusnut

    religusnut New Member

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    I for one teach on tithing once or so a year. I never take up an offering after I have taught always before. I agree that there are entirely too many that try to use the Gospel to milk people for money. It is Biblical for ministry people to draw a salary from the ministry however. As for supporting a man of God I strongly disagree that you won't go to hell for not supporting one. However because of a hardened heart at one you just might.
     
  20. Fire-7

    Fire-7 New Member

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    For those of you who say that you should not tithe to recieve a blessing... Mike Murdock says he wrote a song for you, "How dumb thou art. How dumb thou art..."

    I don't know how many have heard of Mike Murdock--the wisdom preacher, but he teaches heavily on prosperity, with many testimonies and scripture to back him up. But he insists that when you pay tithes and offering, you should expect something in return. I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with him. I'm just saying, he's a very credible preacher who is adamant about giving with "expectancy". ...So, I don't know what to think about this.
     
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