PCUSA Losing Another

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HammerStone

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This is not a thread to gloat, because churches doing this sort of thing should be thought of as performing a necessary evil.

However, Menlo Park Presbyterian is leaving the PCUSA. It will cost them nearly $9 million to do so, based upon how the PCUSA has setup the exit fees, basically.

Story Link: http://www.religionnews.com/2014/03/05/john-ortbergs-menlo-park-presbyterian-votes-leave-pcusa-despite-8-million-fee/

This is not a case of an ultra-fundamentalist leaving a liberalizing denomination. This is someone who is very much a moderate leaving the denomination after a long period of debate and looking internally.

How should the PCUSA respond? Do you think nonChristians look kindly upon Christians charging Christians to leave denominations?

When you're trying to use fees and litigation to keep people and congregations (see the ECUSA), are you really doing the work of the Lord regardless of liberal, conservative, whatever?
 

lforrest

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So it sounds like this fee is regarding the property, if that congregation wants to keep their facilities they must fork over the cash. Surely the PCUSA contributed no finances to that congregation, but it was the other way around. Christians shouldn't bring their internal squabbles to the courts either.

Non Christians see these antics and would think that the church is nothing special, It is the same as every other organization in this world.

If the PCUSA wants to take the high road they should allow those congregations to leave without cost.

The lord doesn't resort to fees and litigation to keep his flock in line.
 

aspen

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It is hard for me to watch the break up of the PC. It was the tradtion that first nurtured me while God brought me into relationship with Him, In fact, I was married by one of the leaders of the conservative movement that is breaking away from the PCUSA - rev. Singelton in Colorado. i kind of think of the PC as a beloved childhood teacher who is now suffering a terrible divorce. In this case, the cost of the alamony is off the charts. Not sure what more to say - the denomination owns all the assets and the congregation does have to pay to break away - unless the rev. chooses to leave and start a new church where his congregation can follow.
not many people who go through a divorce are willing to give up all of their share in the joined assets. It certainly was not easy for me
i always had a good experience attending Menlo Park Pres when i was in high school and working at a nearby Presbyterian Camp. That was twenty five years ago, right when the homosexual ordination issue was first being debated in Presbytery. Sad to watch this difficult outcome.
opps - wrong Menlo Park pres LOL. still sad.....
 

JPPT1974

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Sorry that this is happening. As they need to pray and ask the Lord what to do and the step to take. As only God can allow them to do. As the Lord wants us to act Christ Like and to love our enemies no matter what occurs. Just lean on the Lord. So sorry this is happening!
 

Hashe

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It is sad as the church fractures more and more.
I'm not really sure of the answer.
 

ccfromsc

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What is the reason the church is leaving the main body of their denomination? I am just asking not trying to pick a fight so please do not bite my head off! :)
 

HammerStone

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CC, this Washington Post article shares:


The church voted to join a newer denomination called ECO, A Covenant Order of Evangelical Presbyterians, which has attracted 115 other Presbyterian churches since it started in 2012. In its rationale for leaving, Menlo Park cited differences in identity, mission, governance and owning its property.

“Surprisingly, there are many PC(USA)-ordained pastors who do not believe, for example, in the deity of Christ or in salvation through faith in Christ,” the rationale states, citing a 2011 PCUSA survey that suggested 41 percent agreed with the statement, “Only followers of Jesus Christ can be saved.”

The church also cited difference in mission. For example, the local Presbytery of San Francisco adopted resolutions calling for pulling investments in area employers such as Hewlett Packard and Motorola because of their business with the government of Israel. Menlo Park considered the resolutions a distraction from its core mission.
More or less, the PCUSA was not really providing much of a Christian reason to stick around. There are a number of political issues at play, and I think the prevailing attitude in politics coupled with how the PCUSA (and other denominations of similar persuasion) handles these departing congregations is alarming.

I try very hard to avoid labels, but the liberal denominations' persecution of departing churches is quite concerning. It's ironic how the preached message is for forgiveness and patience with certain segments of society, but when it comes to a church departing with the money, it always enters the legal arena. In our home state here in SC, the ECUSA has a number of lawsuits against the diocese here.

I'm not sure what a number of these liberalizing denominations stand for. They seem to want to advocate for certain exclusive rights for pet people groups and political causes, but heaven forbid money be involved, because the gloves come off!
 

Dodo_David

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I would like to clarify a few things.

First, the Presbyterian Church (USA) is not THE Presbyterian Church in the USA, because other Presbyterian denominations in the USA pre-date the PC(USA).
For example, the Presbyterian Church in America has been in existence much longer than the PC(USA).

Second. the money issue pertains to who actually owns the facility used by a PC(USA) congregation. According to the PC(USA), the facility used by a congregation is the property of the presbytery that the congregation belongs to. So, if a congregation breaks away from that denomination, then the congregation has to either purchase the facility that it uses in order to keep it, or move out of that facility.

Third, the disintegration of the PC(USA) is tied to the move by that denomination, at the national level, to permit people involved in sinful sexual relationships to serve as teaching elders.

I was a member of the PC(USA) back when the denomination began to change so that it would conform to the World in regards to sexual sin. I left that denomination in response to what is happening.