Pentecost "Shavu'ot"

[Christina]

Pentecost "Shavu'ot"Posted: Saturday, May 31, 2008 Shavua is week in Hebrew, and Shavu’ot means 7 weeks, on the eve of the last day would be the beginning to the 50th day, from the second day of Passover “Pessah”. The second day of the Feast of Pessah was the Feast of First Fruits, on the Jewish calendar called “Omer”. The day our Messiah rose from the grave, it was the day of the Resurrection. It is also worth noting that the number fifty is the number for the Holy Spirit. So Yeshua said He would send the Holy Spirit, and He did it on the 50th day after His resurrection. It is the second of the three Pilgrim festivals and it happen in Israel on the 6th of Sivan, (Jewish Calendar) this year on June 8th and everywhere but Israel for two days 8th and 9th. It has other names in Hebrew such as Hag Ha-Katzir meaning Harvest Festival. It was when the ingathering of barley crop ended and the season of wheat harvest began. But Yom Ha-Kikkurim (Day of First Fruits or Shavu’ot in the Jewish World, and Pentecost in the Christian World) According the Rabbis, this festival also commemorates the events at Sinai which traditionally occurred on the 6th of Sivan and have long overshadowed the original (agricultural) aspect of Shavu’ot. Therefore it is also called the giving of the Law (Torah) Dairy products are generally eaten, and favorite dishes are cheesecakes and cheese pancakes. (Yiddish blintzes, pancakes) Here in Israel it is a state holiday, and a time for pilgrimage to Jerusalem. There is lots of dancing and folklore. Generally a very nice time to be in Israel. Just thought you’d appreciate a little run down on this Biblical event in the Jewish world and should be part of the Christian world as well. In fact, there is much to learn about your Jewish roots here http://www.thegoldenreport.com/jewishinformation.asp. Shalom, jerry golden

 

[Christina]

Israel celebrates Jerusalem 41By Stan GoodenoughJun 02, 2008Tens of thousands of visitors came up to Jerusalem Sunday and Monday to participate in celebrations marking 41 years since the capital was reunified and restored to Jewish sovereignty millennia after it was lost to them.Parades, concerts, flag dances and fireworks shows are among the numerous events taking place around the city through this week as "Jerusalem 40" - the special year of commemorations since the age-old daily Amidah prayer for the restoration of Jerusalem to the Jews was finally answered - draws to a close.The 40th Anniversary of Jerusalem's Reunification coincides with the 60th Anniversary of the Establishment of the Jewish State, celebrations of which have been underway for weeks, bringing thousands of well-wishers to the land.Sunday also saw massive rallies in celebration of the 60 years taking place in New York and Washington DC as Americans joined their hearts with Israelis for this special occasion.The resurrection of the Jewish nation in their homeland, and their return to rule in Jerusalem, was all foretold in the Bible - in both the Hebrew Scriptures and the New Testament.Millions of Bible-believing Christians therefore rejoiced when Jerusalem was returned to Jewish rule, remembering the words of Jesus Christ - who about 30 years before the Romans destroyed the city and its Temple in AD70 said that one day, after being trodden underfoot by gentile powers for a long period of time, during which the Jewish people would suffer unending persecution, Jerusalem would finally be restored to its rightful owners.When it happened, in 1967, this restoration was seen as a miracle in and of itself as in just six days Israel demolished Arab armies amassed to destroy the Jewish state.Forty-one years later, as the song "Jerusalem of Gold" made famous after that victory echoes up from the Sultan's Pool down below the Old City walls, an unrelenting international effort continues to wrest the holiest parts of this sacred city away from the Jews once more.Most sought after is Israel's holiest site, the Temple Mount, which is earmarked to become part of the Arab State of Palestine, when it is created.An exclusive report at the top of the WorldNetDaily website Monday was headlined, "Temple Mount '100 percent Islamic' and quoted PLO chief and PA chairman Mahmoud Abbas' chief of staff as warning that "any Israeli action that 'offends' the Mount will be answered by 1.5 billion Muslims."--------------------------------------------------------------------------------© Jerusalem Newswire 2002-2006This satisfies the minimum amount of time necessary to fulfill the many prophecies including the Parable of the fig Tree now this doesn't mean it has to fulfilled now only that we had to at least get to this point before it could be called fulfilled. So now it is whenever God's appointed time is.

 

[Richard_oti]

(kriss;51578)
Shavu’ot means 7 weeks, on the eve of the last day would be the beginning to the 50th day, from the second day of Passover “Pessah”. The second day of the Feast of Pessah was the Feast of First Fruits, on the Jewish calendar called “Omer”.
There is more than one school of thought upon this Kriss. I would suggest looking into some others.If we closely and carefully examine the Scriptures alone on this issue, we may see something a little different unfold.In fact, a good starting place would be to take the day of "Pentecost" in Acts and work backward from there to see if the suggested "timeline" above can fit into it.(kriss)
The day our Messiah rose from the grave, it was the day of the Resurrection. It is also worth noting that the number fifty is the number for the Holy Spirit. So Yeshua said He would send the Holy Spirit, and He did it on the 50th day after His resurrection.
I have seen this all too often. I am not intending to pick on you or anyone else. It is my hope that this may stir some to deeper learning.Again, work the timeline backward from "Pentecost" and if I may, what is your opinion of the phrase "ou meta pollas tautas hemeras"? Loosely: 'not after many these days'.In order for "First Fruits" to be fulfilled in all righteousness, a "wave offering" had to occur. What/When was this "wave offering". What is the purpose of the "wave offering"? For that alone gives us a clue and insight into this IMO. (kriss)
It was when the ingathering of barley crop ended and the season of wheat harvest began.
Consider if you will: Exodus 34:22. I would be interested to hear your opinion of that verse.Now, if we investigate the timing of Palestinian crops, particularly wheat and barley. Most years, the time of the harvest is too early for this to hold up under close scrutiny.Further: If we closely examine Leviticus 23 [as well as other places], there is absolutely nothing that directly ties Shavu`ot to Pesakh.FWIW,Richard

 

[Christina]

Im intreged a mystery:) its late Ill look into this tomarrow and see what I can find

 

[Christina]

I took the post in question from a messainic Jewish site I think looking deeper into this is great study. I am no expert on Judisim.I understand the Wave offering to be representive of Christ. The Israelites' harvest season could not begin until the wave-sheaf offering was made to and accepted by God. In like manner, the Holy Spirit was not poured out on humanity until after Jesus returned to the Father (Acts 1:1-8; 2:1-4). Jesus Christ Himself had told His followers that He had to leave before the Holy Spirit could come to them (John 16:5-14). As far as Exodus 34:22 "And thou shalt observe the feast of weeks, of the firstfruits of wheat harvest, and the "feast of ingathering" at the year's end."So these are the three times during the year that God expects us to observe Him and off our sacrifice of love through our taking of the communion table. The Passover, the earing time which is also called Pentecost, and the feast of weeks or ingathering in the fall Equinox are set times of the Lord. Exodus 34:23 "Thrice in the year shall all your men children appear before The Lord God, the God of Israel."I dont have alot of time today will try to get back to this tonight but please elaborate on your take on this. There is so much said in the feasts as they are representive of Gods plan.

 

[Richard_oti]

Hi Kriss,Like yourself, my time is limited this evening. I will get back to you asap. Hopefully tomorrow eve.

 

[Richard_oti]

(kriss;51772)
I took the post in question from a messainic Jewish site I think looking deeper into this is great study. I am no expert on Judisim.
Hi Kriss,In reading your reply here, my apologies, for I can see that I was unclear in places in my former reply to you. That being said, I have decided to take a slightly different approach to this. Undoubtedly, this is likely to become longer and more involved than I had intended to become in this. Hopefully, it will not become too convoluted, for the subject is deep and wide.Like yourself, neither am I an expert upon Judaism. I am aware though that like Christianity there are different sects within Judaism which follow different schools of thought. If I may, I think I will readdress my initial response to you in more depth as well as reply to you here. For to try and address them both here will become confusing IMO as you have introduced further questions.(kriss)
I understand the Wave offering to be representive of Christ.
Perhaps I should clarify to be sure we are using the same terms for I noticed you used "wave offering" and "wave-sheaf offering". I use 'wave offering' to refer to any of the 'wave offerings' [ie: sheaf; loaves; breast; etc]. It seems to be something of a translational issue for tenufah [wave offering for the purposes of this] is always qualified by omer [sheaf], lekhem [bread/loaves], etc.My apologies, for previously I was not clear in the manner I stated this. Please allow me to rephrase:In order for the "Feast of Weeks" to be fulfilled in all righteousness, a "wave [sheaf] offering" had to occur. What was the "wave [sheaf] offering" in relation to Christ? When did the "wave [sheaf] offering" occur that began the "Feast of Weeks" in the timing leading up to "Pentecost"?What is the purpose of the "wave [sheaf] offering"? For that alone gives us a clue and insight into this IMO. (kriss)
The Israelites' harvest season could not begin until the wave-sheaf offering was made to and accepted by God.
Nor could they eat any grain until the wave [sheaf] offering had been made. Accepted by God? Interesting. I had not read this in a translation in a long time. I must admit, I was rather surprised to read some translations and see how they were worded again.The word in question is liretzonkem which breaks down to "li-retzon-kem".Preposition: li [to]Verbal Noun: retzon [delight/acceptance/pleasure] masc.Possessive Pronoun: kem [your] masc. pl..Liretzonkem; To your acceptance/delight.IOW: To their acceptance of the crop. Their acceptance of the crop YHVH have given them to eat/harvest.Regardless though as to whose acceptance, whether it be their acceptance of the crop or accepted by God for them: What "wave [sheaf] offering" was waved in acceptance of the Firstfruit of those raised from the dead?(kriss)
In like manner, the Holy Spirit was not poured out on humanity until after Jesus returned to the Father (Acts 1:1-8; 2:1-4). Jesus Christ Himself had told His followers that He had to leave before the Holy Spirit could come to them (John 16:5-14).
That is an intriguing aspect as well. Why did Jesus have to leave before the Ruakh haQodesh [Holy Spirit] could come to them? Is there anywhere else in the Scriptures in which we might see an example of this? Perhaps such as Numbers 11:17?If Numbers 11:17 is representative of this, what can we glean from it?(kriss)
As far as Exodus 34:22 "And thou shalt observe the feast of weeks, of the firstfruits of wheat harvest, and the "feast of ingathering" at the year's end."
Regarding the "Feast of Weeks" above, it is observed of the what? [emphasis mine](kriss)
So these are the three times during the year that God expects us to observe Him and off our sacrifice of love through our taking of the communion table. The Passover, the earing time which is also called Pentecost, and the feast of weeks or ingathering in the fall Equinox are set times of the Lord. Exodus 34:23 "Thrice in the year shall all your men children appear before The Lord God, the God of Israel."
If I gently may: Perhaps I am not reading you correrctly or you were tired.Passover/Unleavened Bread occur in the first month of the year. The month of aviv, or the month in which the green ears appear.The Feast of Weeks culminates with Pentecost.The Feast of Ingathering/Feast of Tabernacles/Sukkot(kriss)
I dont have alot of time today will try to get back to this tonight but please elaborate on your take on this. There is so much said in the feasts as they are representive of Gods plan.
Regrettably, I do not have a lot of time these days either. However, I will respond as I may. There is a lot within the Feasts and they are a great depth of study alone.

 

[Richard_oti]

(kriss;51578)
Shavua is week in Hebrew, and Shavu’ot means 7 weeks
Shavua is week, however shavu'ot is weeks. It is used of the "Feast of Weeks", however shavu'ot itself does not mean seven weeks. Seven weeks would be sheva` shavu'ot. In Leviticus 23 it is sheva` shabatot or seven shabats.(kriss)
on the eve of the last day would be the beginning to the 50th day, from the second day of Passover “Pessah”
This is representative of the thought processes of one school of thought. I see two problems with this school of thought in that it directly ties Shavu'ot to Unleavened which is not supported in Leviticus 23. Further, it uses/defines the first day of the "Feast of Unleavened Bread" as a 'shabat'. In Leviticus 23, the first day of the "Feast of Unleavened Bread" is never defined as a 'shabat'.If I may, let's take a brief look at Leviticus 23:_______________________________________________________________In Leviticus 23 we have each of the miqra'ey_qodesh [sacred/holy assemblies/meetings/convocations] laid out for us.I will briefly outline the terms used of each of these days from Leviticus 23 here so that they may be clear for all to see:Lev. 23:3 The weekly shabat: shabat shabaton; miqra'_qodeshLev. 23:7 First day of Unleavened Bread: miqra'_qodesh; mele'ket `avodah [(no) regular/labor/service work/occupation/business]Lev. 23:8 Last day of Unleavened Bread: miqra'_qodesh; mele'ket `avodahLev. 23:21 Pentecost: miqra'_qodesh; mele'ket `avodahLev. 23:24 Feast of Trumpets: shabaton; miqra'_qodeshLev. 23:27-32 Yom Kippurim [Day of Atonement(s)]: miqra'_qodesh; mela'kah lo'; shabat shabatonLev. 23:35 First day of the Feast of Tabernacles: miqra'_qodesh; mele'ket `avodahLev. 23:36 Last day of the Feast of Tabernacles: miqra'_qodesh; mele'ket `avodah_______________________________________________________________If we read Leviticus 23, we see no direct tie between the "Feast of Weeks" and the "Feast of Unleavened Bread". In the above, we can clearly see that the first day of the "Feast of Unleavened Bread" is not refered unto as a "shabat" nor as a "shabaton".OTOH: Yom Kippurim, while it does not generally fall upon the weekly 'shabat', is refered unto as a 'shabat shabaton'. To continue: To use the "miqra'_qodesh; mele'ket `avodah" of the first day of Unleavened Bread as the 'shabat' from which the seven weeks are counted places "Pentecost" as falling upon various days of the week in different years. This to me is contrary to Leviticus 23 in which it is written "`ad mi-makharat ha-shabat ha-shebi`it" or "until from the day after the shabat the seventh".Further: Passover/Feast of Unleavened Bread may fall anywhere from the last week of March to the third week of April. That is quite a difference in time. The general time of harvest in Israel for barley is mid April with wheat occurring mid May. Those are harvest times. Another fact we should consider in this is the length of time each of these grains take to go from boot/head emergence until full maturity. Regrettably, I have long forgotten that information or I would include it here.(kriss)
The second day of the Feast of Pessah was the Feast of First Fruits, on the Jewish calendar called “Omer”.
Another point in which there is a lot of confusion, is the number of the days, or length of the "Feast of Pessah", however I will not go into that here. Basically the day of the wave offering of the sheaf is being spoken of. Yet again, if we read Leviticus 23, it is a day after shabat.(kriss)
The day our Messiah rose from the grave, it was the day of the Resurrection.
According to Leviticus, before any grain was to be harvested and/or eaten/partaken of, the sheaf was to be waved. Here we reach another place which of difficulty. However, we may find some clues to this within the text of John chapter 12.Further, based upon what is being presented here, it would seem to allude to a Friday crucifixion with a Sunday ressurection. This alone leaves us with many problems and unable to fully reconcile things in full accord with Torah [instruction/law].(kriss)
It is also worth noting that the number fifty is the number for the Holy Spirit. So Yeshua said He would send the Holy Spirit, and He did it on the 50th day after His resurrection.
Here again, if we closely examine the timing from Pentecost in Acts and work backward, we may arrive with a different conclusion. Perhaps at some point this may be more closely examined.(kriss)
It was when the ingathering of barley crop ended and the season of wheat harvest began. But Yom Ha-Kikkurim (Day of First Fruits or Shavu’ot in the Jewish World, and Pentecost in the Christian World)
If we look back to Exodus, we might glean a few clues in this regard as well. When the Israelites were leaving Egypt, what crops had been destroyed by the plagues and which crops remained. And yes, the timing of the crops differs between Egyptian and Palestinian lands. Exodus 34:22 leaves us with further insight when we consider it in relation to the crops remaining in Egypt after the plagues.I am not interested in proving "I am right", my only intention is to stir the thoughts and study of others in which perhaps we might all discover or reach a deeper level of knowledge and understanding.FWIW,Richard

 

[Christina]

Interesting connection with Numbers 11:17 I will have to study that more.Its been many years sense I studied the feasts in depth and even then Im not sure I absorbed but the basics, However as time passes I see them as more and more relvent to understanding God and his Word I think we could write a book on in depth teachings of each feast. They have always fascinated me.I enjoy bouning things back and forth about them. As you say there are many differnt translations.Please feel free to disagree with me If I post something you dont agree with. As I said this is not my area of expertise. I will study over your post and get back to you with my thoughts.

 

[Richard_oti]

(kriss;51959)
Interesting connection with Numbers 11:17 I will have to study that more.
I thought it interesting, as well as revealing.(kriss)
I enjoy bouncing things back and forth about them. As you say there are many different translations. Please feel free to disagree with me if I post something you don't agree with.
I also enjoy bouncing things around. Many has been the time I have written something and placed it before my peers to tear to shreds. IMO it is a good method of discovery and learning from one another. The hardest part IMO is making sure we are not of the "I am right" opinion, for IMO not one of us has it all correct. No matter how much any of us may have studied a given topic, we are still prone to error.Also, please feel free to disagree with me. It has been many years for myself as well and I am not above error. The ability to respectfully discuss things from our different and various POV's is a good thing, as iron sharpens iron...I shall look forward to hearing your thoughts.

 

[Christina]

Hi Richard check out this link what are your thoughts on thishttp://livingtheway.org/wave2.html

 

[Richard_oti]

(kriss;52077)
Hi Richard check out this link what are your thoughts on thishttp://livingtheway.org/wave2.html
Hi Kriss,First thoughts were WWCG. When I reached the name Herman Hoeh this was confirmed. This is apparently an offshoot of the former WWCG. Their doctrines/teachings have grown and changed since the days of the former WWCG though. Like the doctrine/teachings of most WWCG and it's offshoots, it has it's good and bad points.Personally, I don't spend much time reading websites.

 

[Christina]

I ran across it accidently and I had not heard it presented that way glad you saw it the same as I was seeing it, truth and some fiction sounding oh so holy

I didnt want to post any of it because sure enough someone will say it the gospel truth. Thats why I wanted you to see the link.Anyway thanks for your opinion.

 

[Richard_oti]

No problem.