Perfection

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aspen

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Are humans transitioning to a state of prefection?

What is human perfection?

When is it obtained? Happen?
 

ScottA

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Are humans transitioning to a state of prefection?

What is human perfection?

When is it obtained? Happen?
This is what is meant by being born again of the spirit of God (whom is spirit and perfect).

He must increase, and we must decrease.
 

aspen

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This is what is meant by being born again of the spirit of God (whom is spirit and perfect).

He must increase, and we must decrease.

So what does human perfection look like? What does the transition look like?
 

ScottA

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So what does human perfection look like? What does the transition look like?
"Human" perfection is really a contradiction in terms. In our humanity, we are best understood to be flesh, a fallen race under curses which manifest in the flesh. This is our captivity.

But God, whom is perfect, is also spirit.

So, to answer the question of what it looks like... It looks like us loosing our humanity, meaning: passing away. But one who is not born again of the spirit of God, does not pass on to eternal life, but rather eternal damnation. So, then, the flesh goes the way of the damned, but the spirit the way of God, unto perfection. Which, in the world, for those who are alive and remain, it simply looks like passing away...while producing fruits of the spirit, which is love.
 

FHII

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Humans aint going to be perfect Aspen. Never. It was pretty much what Jesus was getting at when he gave his Sermon in the Mount.

Now when you go to Romans 8, Paul said that we are not in the flesh, but in the spirit. Yet his letter was written to people in the flesh. I Cor 6. He says when he wanted to do good he didn't. But it was his flesh. Not him, but his flesh.

Sure, its confusing. But when Christ died, he covered and forgave all sins of the flesh. Bow work on perfecting the spiritual man... Cause the man of the flesh doesn't matter.
 

Helen

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Humans aint going to be perfect Aspen. Never. It was pretty much what Jesus was getting at when he gave his Sermon in the Mount.

Now when you go to Romans 8, Paul said that we are not in the flesh, but in the spirit. Yet his letter was written to people in the flesh. I Cor 6. He says when he wanted to do good he didn't. But it was his flesh. Not him, but his flesh.

Sure, its confusing. But when Christ died, he covered and forgave all sins of the flesh. Bow work on perfecting the spiritual man... Cause the man of the flesh doesn't matter.

Yes I agree with you.
The flesh/human will never become perfected.
Well said indeed. Good post.
 
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Helen

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@aspen ...no I do not believe humans are transitioning to a state of perfection.
" Some" believe that somehow we are getting better and better.
It may seem that way as we become deader and deader to the outer self.

The only perfection is for us to be hidden in Christ..The Perfect One.
 

aspen

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Humans aint going to be perfect Aspen. Never. It was pretty much what Jesus was getting at when he gave his Sermon in the Mount.

Now when you go to Romans 8, Paul said that we are not in the flesh, but in the spirit. Yet his letter was written to people in the flesh. I Cor 6. He says when he wanted to do good he didn't. But it was his flesh. Not him, but his flesh.

Sure, its confusing. But when Christ died, he covered and forgave all sins of the flesh. Bow work on perfecting the spiritual man... Cause the man of the flesh doesn't matter.

So what is your opinion on Mathew 5:48?
 

aspen

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"Human" perfection is really a contradiction in terms. In our humanity, we are best understood to be flesh, a fallen race under curses which manifest in the flesh. This is our captivity.

But God, whom is perfect, is also spirit.

So, to answer the question of what it looks like... It looks like us loosing our humanity, meaning: passing away. But one who is not born again of the spirit of God, does not pass on to eternal life, but rather eternal damnation. So, then, the flesh goes the way of the damned, but the spirit the way of God, unto perfection. Which, in the world, for those who are alive and remain, it simply looks like passing away...while producing fruits of the spirit, which is love.

So Scott what is your opinion on the Christian teaching of deification?
 

ScottA

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So Scott what is your opinion on the Christian teaching of deification?
I am not familiar with the word, nor who coined it or why, and had to look it up. But I do know that God has made it clear that the law of sin and death pertains to the flesh (the offspring of the first Adam), and that God is spirit and perfect. Also, that with Christ (the Last Adam, a life-giving Spirit) came the kingdom of heaven, who said that we must also be born of the spirit, which has been clarified to mean, not a transformation, but "a new creation." And that even though it has been misunderstood, He Himself did that very thing, commanding that these truths of which He has made available by sending the Holy Spirit, be preached to the ends of the earth. Then after saying, "follow Me", He entered into His rest, saying also that the world would see Him "no more." Which, if we love Him, we will also do.
 
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Helen

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at least until we fix our def of perfect i guess, ya

Well we can choose 'our' definition of perfect...God has set it! :)
....the definition is Flawless,
I believe you will find the root meaning in the bible word is Complete.

Col 2:10-15 is the only completeness , flawlessness and perfection man can have...
10 And ye are complete in Him, which is the head of all principality and power:
11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
12 Buried with Him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with Him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross."

That is my confidence and faith. Our glorious hope of perfection.
Thank You Jesus !!
 
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aspen

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Perfection does mean to be flawless......as applied to humanity, it means to love without error. If humans loved perfectly, we would be operating as designed and therefore, perfect. We cannot do this apart from God. In fact, all we can do is practice loving in this life time. Our sanctification seems to be practicing love through Christ, which will culminate in perfection after we are raised to eternal life. Eternal life is existence without change, which is perfection.

Perfection, as applied to humanity does not include omnipresence, omnipotence, or omniscience - these attributes are part of God’s perfection
 

bbyrd009

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Our sanctification seems to be practicing love through Christ, which will culminate in perfection after we are raised to eternal life.
i suggest that there are more pertinent ways to perceive the death that we are resurrected from, that may culminate today. Iow "greater love hath no man, than to die for his friends" is not referring to physical death, but to a spiritual death, the death of the ego
Eternal life is existence without change, which is perfection.
yikes, which will necessarily cause some redefining here too i guess
 
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