Perpetual virginity of Mary mother of God!

[theefaith]

Perpetual Virginity of Mary the mother of God!

Mary conceived "without any detriment to her virginity, which remained inviolate even after his birth" (apostolic Council of the Lateran, 649) with the jurisdictional authority of Peter and the apostles in holy council! Matt 16:18 18:18 Jn 20:21-23 eph 2:20 bound on earth bound in heaven!

The Bible never says anyone is a biological child of Mary accept for Jesus Christ!

And the Bible says Her child is holy! And Her child is God!

Is 7:14 God provides a sign, a Virgin shall conceive and bear a son! (Singular, one son)

Ezekiel 44:2 “This gate shall remain shut; it shall not be opened, and no one shall enter by it; for the Lord, the God of Israel, has entered by it; therefore it shall remain shut.”

Song of Solomon 4:12 A garden inclosed is my sister, my spouse; a spring shut up, a fountain sealed.

(Mary had become the temple & dwelling place of the Almighty, like the Ark of the Covenant in the Old Testament. Mary was a vessel consecrated to God alone?)

Matt 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

(The Bible says only the Holy Ghost conceived in Mary)

Matt 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.
(A son singular) (only Jesus is savior)

Lk 1:28 Hail Mary, full of Grace, the Lord is with thee!

Blessed art thou amongst all women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.
(The fruit of Her womb is blessed and holy)

Lk 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus.
(A son, singular)

Lk 1:34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
(This verse imply’s a vow of perpetual virginity, She refuses even the exalted dignity of mother of God and mother of our savior if it means violating Her vow of perpetual virginity)

Lk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
(Her son is God)

Matt 1:25 He knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name Jesus.

2 Samuel 6:23 tells us: Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child UNTIL the day of her death.

Are we to assume that Michal had children after she died?

Until only states that they had no relation up to that point, the Bible does not say they had sex ever, before or after that point!

First born does not imply a second born. An only child is still first born!

The Bible says Joseph a just and therefore a chaste man, it does not say he has gone into Mary anywhere in scripture, 2 Sam 12:24 And David comforted Bathsheba his wife, and went in unto her, and lay with her: and she bare a son, and he called his name Solomon: and the Lord loved him. Never says this about a Joseph, for He was full of fear and reverence for Her immaculate purity and holiness! Especially after hearing from an angel that her child was of the Holy Spirit!


Isa 66:7 Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child.

8 Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.

9 Shall I bring to the birth, and not cause to bring forth? saith the Lord: shall I cause to bring forth, and shut the womb? saith thy God.

10 Rejoice ye with Jerusalem, and be glad with her, all ye that love her: rejoice for joy with her, all ye that mourn for her: (rejoice at the birth of the savior)

Is 7:14 a virgin shall conceive and bear a son!
(One son, singular)

James is the son of zebedee, and the other James is the son of Alpheus not Joseph!
Matt 10:2-3

In Hebrew culture any close relative can be called brother or sister, lot was called Abraham’s brother but was his nephew.

Gen 12:5 and Abram took Sarai his wife, and Lot his brother's son..

Gen 13:8 And Abram said unto Lot, Let there be no strife, I pray thee, between me and thee, and between my herdsmen and thy herdsmen; for we are Brothers.

The 12 sons of Jacob are brothers but all are not the children of Leah and all are not the children of Rachel! They had 4 mother’s!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Perpetual Virginity of Mary the mother of God!

Mary conceived "without any detriment to her virginity, which remained inviolate even after his birth" (apostolic Council of the Lateran, 649) with the jurisdictional authority of Peter and the apostles in holy council! Matt 16:18 18:18 Jn 20:21-23 eph 2:20 bound on earth bound in heaven!

The Bible never says anyone is a biological child of Mary accept for Jesus Christ!

And the Bible says Her child is holy! And Her child is God!

Is 7:14 God provides a sign, a Virgin shall conceive and bear a son! (Singular, one son)

Perpetual Virginity of Mary the mother of God!

Mary conceived "without any detriment to her virginity, which remained inviolate even after his birth" (apostolic Council of the Lateran, 649) with the jurisdictional authority of Peter and the apostles in holy council! Matt 16:18 18:18 Jn 20:21-23 eph 2:20 bound on earth bound in heaven!

The Bible never says anyone is a biological child of Mary accept for Jesus Christ!

And the Bible says Her child is holy! And Her child is God!

Is 7:14 God provides a sign, a Virgin shall conceive and bear a son! (Singular, one son)

Ezekiel 44:2 “This gate shall remain shut; it shall not be opened, and no one shall enter by it; for the Lord, the God of Israel, has entered by it; therefore it shall remain shut.”

Song of Solomon 4:12 A garden inclosed is my sister, my spouse; a spring shut up, a fountain sealed.

(Mary had become the temple & dwelling place of the Almighty, like the Ark of the Covenant in the Old Testament. Mary was a vessel consecrated to God alone?)

Matt 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

(The Bible says only the Holy Ghost conceived in Mary)

Matt 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.
(A son singular) (only Jesus is savior)

Lk 1:28 Hail Mary, full of Grace, the Lord is with thee!

Blessed art thou amongst all women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.
(The fruit of Her womb is blessed and holy)

Lk 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus.
(A son, singular)

Lk 1:34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
(This verse imply’s a vow of perpetual virginity, She refuses even the exalted dignity of mother of God and mother of our savior if it means violating Her vow of perpetual virginity)

Lk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
(Her son is God)

Matt 1:25 He knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name Jesus.

2 Samuel 6:23 tells us: Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child UNTIL the day of her death.

Are we to assume that Michal had children after she died?

Until only states that they had no relation up to that point, the Bible does not say they had sex ever, before or after that point!

First born does not imply a second born. An only child is still first born!

The Bible says Joseph a just and therefore a chaste man, it does not say he has gone into Mary anywhere in scripture, 2 Sam 12:24 And David comforted Bathsheba his wife, and went in unto her, and lay with her: and she bare a son, and he called his name Solomon: and the Lord loved him. Never says this about a Joseph, for He was full of fear and reverence for Her immaculate purity and holiness! Especially after hearing from an angel that her child was of the Holy Spirit!


Isa 66:7 Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child.

8 Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.

9 Shall I bring to the birth, and not cause to bring forth? saith the Lord: shall I cause to bring forth, and shut the womb? saith thy God.

10 Rejoice ye with Jerusalem, and be glad with her, all ye that love her: rejoice for joy with her, all ye that mourn for her: (rejoice at the birth of the savior)

Is 7:14 a virgin shall conceive and bear a son!
(One son, singular)

James is the son of zebedee, and the other James is the son of Alpheus not Joseph!
Matt 10:2-3

In Hebrew culture any close relative can be called brother or sister, lot was called Abraham’s brother but was his nephew.

Gen 12:5 and Abram took Sarai his wife, and Lot his brother's son..

Gen 13:8 And Abram said unto Lot, Let there be no strife, I pray thee, between me and thee, and between my herdsmen and thy herdsmen; for we are Brothers.

The 12 sons of Jacob are brothers but all are not the children of Leah and all are not the children of Rachel! They had 4 mother’s!

Take some prozac and come back in the morning!

Matthew 1:25
And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name Jesus.

Mark 6:3
Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.

Rewriting Scripture is a mortal sin.

 

[theefaith]

Take some prozac and come back in the morning!

Matthew 1:25
And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name Jesus.

where does it say first born requires a second born? I have one son and He is my first born!

Mark 6:3
Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.

Rewriting Scripture is a mortal sin.

Not re-writing scripture

Brothers and sisters of Jesus?

They are not the children of Mary!

Is 7:14 a virgin shall conceive and bear a son!
(One son, singular)

James is the son of zebedee, and the other James is the son of Alpheus not Joseph!
Matt 10:2-3

In Hebrew culture any close relative can be called brother or sister, lot was called Abraham’s brother but was his nephew.

Gen 12:5 and Abram took Sarai his wife, and Lot his brother's son..

Gen 13:8 And Abram said unto Lot, Let there be no strife, I pray thee, between me and thee, and between my herdsmen and thy herdsmen; for we are Brothers.

The 12 sons of Jacob are brothers but all are not the children of Leah and all are not the children of Rachel! They had 4 mother’s, These may be brothers but they are simply not the children of One mother and the brothers of Jesus are not the children of Mary!

Jose’s, Simon Salome are children of another Mary!

Mk 15:40 There were also women looking on afar off: among whom was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the less and of Joses, and Salome;

Is Mary the mother of James?
If you mean the Blessed Virgin Mary then no. Her sister-in-law, Mary of Clopas, was the wife of Alphaeus (St. Joseph's brother), and mother of Simon, Joseph, and the apostles Judas Thaddeus, and James (the Less, brother of the Lord): Jesus' cousins.

The "sisters" of Jesus refer to women disciples

Salome, or Mary Salome, was the wife of Zebedee, and mother of apostles John (the beloved), and James (the greater).


Regarding Mat. 13:55 and Mk. 6:3, two of the four "brethren" are James and Judas of Alphaeus (cf. Mat. 10:2-3, Lk. 6:15-16, Act. 1:13). The third, Joseph, is identified in Mk. 15:40 as the brother of James of Alphaeus. The fourth, Simon, is identified in Mat. 13:55 and Mk. 6:3 as the brother of Joseph, James, and Judas of Alphaeus. Therefore, all four are were the sons of Alphaeus, not St. Joseph and the Blessed Virgin Mary.

When Jesus was twelve they went up to Jerusalem, the holy family, Joseph, Mary, and Jesus. Where are the brothers and sisters?

Jesus on the cross gives His mother to John, why? Why not James or a brother? Perhaps the law of Moses requires a mother to be given to the next oldest son? Because he was an only Son!
Only begotten of the Father, only begotten of the Mother.

Only God can be born of a Virgin-mother!

 

[Lambano]

Matthew 1:25 He knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name Jesus.

2 Samuel 6:23 tells us: Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child UNTIL the day of her death.

Are we to assume that Michal had children after she died?

Until only states that they had no relation up to that point, the Bible does not say they had sex ever, before or after that point!

Stop right there. The logic does not work.

The terminus of the “until” statement in the Samuel verse is Michal’s death. This is a poetic way to say that Michal did not have children during her natural lifetime. (Whether people marry and have children in the World to Come is behind a question the Sadducees would later ask Jesus, but early Jewish eschatology is outside the scope of this discussion.) The audience would have no trouble understanding what the author is trying to communicate.

But Matthew doesn’t use Mary’s death as the terminus of his “until” statement. He uses the baby’s birth. Why? If he meant to communicate that Mary never had sex her entire life, he could’ve phrased it like the author of Samuel did, but he didn’t. There’s other ways to say it, including coming right out and saying it, but he didn’t. Why did Matthew write what he wrote the way he wrote it? Why is Jesus’s birth the endpoint of the “until”? In normal human experience, married couples may refrain from intercourse during pregnancy (especially in the late stages), but they resume after childbirth. Matthew phrased it this way to communicate that Mary and Joseph took up their 1 Corinthians 7:3 obligations to each other only after Jesus was born. That’s the natural way his audience would’ve understood it.

That is how language is used. If you have to perform an unnatural act on the text so that it could say what you want it to say, you should question the agenda that requires you to do so.

 

[Lambano]

I don’t have the chutzpah to ask a royal lady about her sex life, but in the World to Come, I’m gonna buy Joseph a beer a get the real scoop. (Who says, “In Heaven there is no beer”?)

 

[Bruce Atkinson]

(Who says, “In Heaven there is no beer”?)

I KNOW that song! I used to know the words, too! Being born and raised in the beer capital of the world (Milwaukee, WI - Blatz, Miller, Pabst, Schlitz HQ and breweries were all there when I was a young 'un) How could I NOT drink a LOT of beer?

So the answer to your $64,000 question? Frankie Yankovic!

 

[Bruce Atkinson]

Perpetual Virginity of Mary the mother of God!

Mary conceived "without any detriment to her virginity, which remained inviolate even after his birth" (apostolic Council of the Lateran, 649) with the jurisdictional authority of Peter and the apostles in holy council! Matt 16:18 18:18 Jn 20:21-23 eph 2:20 bound on earth bound in heaven!

The Bible never says anyone is a biological child of Mary accept for Jesus Christ!

And the Bible says Her child is holy! And Her child is God!

Is 7:14 God provides a sign, a Virgin shall conceive and bear a son! (Singular, one son)

Ezekiel 44:2 “This gate shall remain shut; it shall not be opened, and no one shall enter by it; for the Lord, the God of Israel, has entered by it; therefore it shall remain shut.”

Song of Solomon 4:12 A garden inclosed is my sister, my spouse; a spring shut up, a fountain sealed.

(Mary had become the temple & dwelling place of the Almighty, like the Ark of the Covenant in the Old Testament. Mary was a vessel consecrated to God alone?)

Matt 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

(The Bible says only the Holy Ghost conceived in Mary)

Matt 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.
(A son singular) (only Jesus is savior)

Lk 1:28 Hail Mary, full of Grace, the Lord is with thee!

Blessed art thou amongst all women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.
(The fruit of Her womb is blessed and holy)

Lk 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus.
(A son, singular)

Lk 1:34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
(This verse imply’s a vow of perpetual virginity, She refuses even the exalted dignity of mother of God and mother of our savior if it means violating Her vow of perpetual virginity)

Lk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
(Her son is God)

Matt 1:25 He knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name Jesus.

2 Samuel 6:23 tells us: Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child UNTIL the day of her death.

Are we to assume that Michal had children after she died?

Until only states that they had no relation up to that point, the Bible does not say they had sex ever, before or after that point!

First born does not imply a second born. An only child is still first born!

The Bible says Joseph a just and therefore a chaste man, it does not say he has gone into Mary anywhere in scripture, 2 Sam 12:24 And David comforted Bathsheba his wife, and went in unto her, and lay with her: and she bare a son, and he called his name Solomon: and the Lord loved him. Never says this about a Joseph, for He was full of fear and reverence for Her immaculate purity and holiness! Especially after hearing from an angel that her child was of the Holy Spirit!


Isa 66:7 Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child.

8 Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.

9 Shall I bring to the birth, and not cause to bring forth? saith the Lord: shall I cause to bring forth, and shut the womb? saith thy God.

10 Rejoice ye with Jerusalem, and be glad with her, all ye that love her: rejoice for joy with her, all ye that mourn for her: (rejoice at the birth of the savior)

Is 7:14 a virgin shall conceive and bear a son!
(One son, singular)

James is the son of zebedee, and the other James is the son of Alpheus not Joseph!
Matt 10:2-3

In Hebrew culture any close relative can be called brother or sister, lot was called Abraham’s brother but was his nephew.

Gen 12:5 and Abram took Sarai his wife, and Lot his brother's son..

Gen 13:8 And Abram said unto Lot, Let there be no strife, I pray thee, between me and thee, and between my herdsmen and thy herdsmen; for we are Brothers.

The 12 sons of Jacob are brothers but all are not the children of Leah and all are not the children of Rachel! They had 4 mother’s!

You started the exact same thread several months ago! September 10, to be exact. Are you expecting different answers here than back then? Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results is called 'insanity' by the head shrinkers out there.

Perpetual virginity of Mary!

 

[quietthinker]

Perpetual Virginity of Mary the mother of God!

Mary conceived "without any detriment to her virginity, which remained inviolate even after his birth" (apostolic Council of the Lateran, 649) with the jurisdictional authority of Peter and the apostles in holy council! Matt 16:18 18:18 Jn 20:21-23 eph 2:20 bound on earth bound in heaven!

The Bible never says anyone is a biological child of Mary accept for Jesus Christ!

And the Bible says Her child is holy! And Her child is God!

Is 7:14 God provides a sign, a Virgin shall conceive and bear a son! (Singular, one son)

Ezekiel 44:2 “This gate shall remain shut; it shall not be opened, and no one shall enter by it; for the Lord, the God of Israel, has entered by it; therefore it shall remain shut.”

Song of Solomon 4:12 A garden inclosed is my sister, my spouse; a spring shut up, a fountain sealed.

(Mary had become the temple & dwelling place of the Almighty, like the Ark of the Covenant in the Old Testament. Mary was a vessel consecrated to God alone?)

Matt 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

(The Bible says only the Holy Ghost conceived in Mary)

Matt 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.
(A son singular) (only Jesus is savior)

Lk 1:28 Hail Mary, full of Grace, the Lord is with thee!

Blessed art thou amongst all women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.
(The fruit of Her womb is blessed and holy)

Lk 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus.
(A son, singular)

Lk 1:34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
(This verse imply’s a vow of perpetual virginity, She refuses even the exalted dignity of mother of God and mother of our savior if it means violating Her vow of perpetual virginity)

Lk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
(Her son is God)

Matt 1:25 He knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name Jesus.

2 Samuel 6:23 tells us: Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child UNTIL the day of her death.

Are we to assume that Michal had children after she died?

Until only states that they had no relation up to that point, the Bible does not say they had sex ever, before or after that point!

First born does not imply a second born. An only child is still first born!

The Bible says Joseph a just and therefore a chaste man, it does not say he has gone into Mary anywhere in scripture, 2 Sam 12:24 And David comforted Bathsheba his wife, and went in unto her, and lay with her: and she bare a son, and he called his name Solomon: and the Lord loved him. Never says this about a Joseph, for He was full of fear and reverence for Her immaculate purity and holiness! Especially after hearing from an angel that her child was of the Holy Spirit!


Isa 66:7 Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child.

8 Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.

9 Shall I bring to the birth, and not cause to bring forth? saith the Lord: shall I cause to bring forth, and shut the womb? saith thy God.

10 Rejoice ye with Jerusalem, and be glad with her, all ye that love her: rejoice for joy with her, all ye that mourn for her: (rejoice at the birth of the savior)

Is 7:14 a virgin shall conceive and bear a son!
(One son, singular)

James is the son of zebedee, and the other James is the son of Alpheus not Joseph!
Matt 10:2-3

In Hebrew culture any close relative can be called brother or sister, lot was called Abraham’s brother but was his nephew.

Gen 12:5 and Abram took Sarai his wife, and Lot his brother's son..

Gen 13:8 And Abram said unto Lot, Let there be no strife, I pray thee, between me and thee, and between my herdsmen and thy herdsmen; for we are Brothers.

The 12 sons of Jacob are brothers but all are not the children of Leah and all are not the children of Rachel! They had 4 mother’s!

The obsession with the virginity of Mary after the birth of Jesus and the attempted shoehorning of scriptures to justify this obsession is indicative of a distorted view of human sexuality. It is no wonder pedophilia is out of control in the RC hierarchies around the world.....and my guess is with all the denial, all the shuffling around of leaders to mitigate this hot potato it is just the tip of an enormous iceberg the size of which is yet to be determined.

 

[theefaith]

I KNOW that song! I used to know the words, too! Being born and raised in the beer capital of the world (Milwaukee, WI - Blatz, Miller, Pabst, Schlitz HQ and breweries were all there when I was a young 'un) How could I NOT drink a LOT of beer?

So the answer to your $64,000 question? Frankie Yankovic!

chug-a-lug chug-a-lug! Lol

 

[theefaith]

You started the exact same thread several months ago! September 10, to be exact. Are you expecting different answers here than back then? Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results is called 'insanity' by the head shrinkers out there.

Perpetual virginity of Mary!

jude 1:3

 

[theefaith]

The obsession with the virginity of Mary after the birth of Jesus and the attempted shoehorning of scriptures to justify this obsession is indicative of a distorted view of human sexuality. It is no wonder pedophilia is out of control in the RC hierarchies around the world.....and my guess is with all the denial, all the shuffling around of leaders to mitigate this hot potato it is just the tip of an enormous iceberg the size of which is yet to be determined.

love of the truth!

jude 1:3
Contend for the faith

The church has always taught the perpetual virginity of Mary, but the sins of the modernists is new


The union Christ and His holy church or the unity of the holy church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles is such that it cannot be harmed by the sins of men!

Automatic excommunication is incured upon the exercise of the intellect and will to teach error or Hersey or to commit grave sin! Men are sinners, with a sin nature and free will, but we should choose that which is good and holy! Rom 6:13

So the bride is spotless and without blemish!

The members of Christ in communion with God and each other are in a state of sanctifying grace!

We deplore the sins and outrages of abuse, most of which is done by homo’s on young boys, in any group especially those calling themselves Christian, the communists began infiltration in the seminary’s in the 30’s and the modernist’s and homo’s in the 60’s and 70’s

This is a symptom of error and Hersey
Modernism or theological liberalism, of the modern apostasy and nowhere does the true church teach anyone to do these things, nor do the Protestant sects which have the same issues! And we don’t blame the Protestant sects or leaders!

Philippians 4:8
Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.

 

[Mungo]

Stop right there. The logic does not work.

The terminus of the “until” statement in the Samuel verse is Michal’s death. This is a poetic way to say that Michal did not have children during her natural lifetime. (Whether people marry and have children in the World to Come is behind a question the Sadducees would later ask Jesus, but early Jewish eschatology is outside the scope of this discussion.) The audience would have no trouble understanding what the author is trying to communicate.

But Matthew doesn’t use Mary’s death as the terminus of his “until” statement. He uses the baby’s birth. Why? If he meant to communicate that Mary never had sex her entire life, he could’ve phrased it like the author of Samuel did, but he didn’t. There’s other ways to say it, including coming right out and saying it, but he didn’t. Why did Matthew write what he wrote the way he wrote it? Why is Jesus’s birth the endpoint of the “until”? In normal human experience, married couples may refrain from intercourse during pregnancy (especially in the late stages), but they resume after childbirth. Matthew phrased it this way to communicate that Mary and Joseph took up their 1 Corinthians 7:3 obligations to each other only after Jesus was born. That’s the natural way his audience would’ve understood it.

That is how language is used. If you have to perform an unnatural act on the text so that it could say what you want it to say, you should question the agenda that requires you to do so.

You are making a lot of assumptions there with no proof of any of them.

The word until (or till) denotes a point in time up to which some action occurred. Neither it, nor the Greek heos from which is translated, not mean that the action changed, only that there was something significant about that point in time. That point in time may be significant for reason other than a change in the action. What happened after that may be explicitly stated or may be inferred from the context, or may just be left unknown. To claim it always means the action changes is not valid and leads to absurdities.

Mt 1:25 cannot be used to prove that Mary had a sexual relationship with Joseph. To infer it is to claim what has yet to be proved.

Consider:
"There was also a prophetess, Anna, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Asher. She was advanced in years, having lived seven years with her husband after her marriage, and then as a widow until (heos) she was eighty-four.” Lk 2:36-37).
Does that imply she got married at the age of 84?

Jesus said to the Apostles “And remember, I am with you always, to (heos) the end of the age.” (Mt 28:20). Does that mean he won’t be with us after the end of the age?

Here are some more
"but to [until] this day no one knows the place of his [Moses] burial" (Deut 34:6)
Do we know the place of Moses burial? NO

"For he [Christ] must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet." (1Cor 15:25)
Will Christ stop reigning after he has put all his enemies under his feet? NO

"Until I arrive, attend to the reading, exhortation, and teaching."(1Tim 4:13)
After Paul arrives will Timothy stop reading, exhortation and teaching? NO

"We know that all creation is groaning in labour pains even until now;" (Rom 8:22)
Has creation stopped groaning? NO

"except that you must hold fast to what you have until I come". (Rev 2:25)
Do we stop holding fast after Christ comes? NO

"To the victor, who keeps to my ways until the end, I will give authority over the nations".(Rev 2:26)
Do the victors stop keeping Christ’s ways at the end? NO

 

[Mungo]

The obsession with the virginity of Mary after the birth of Jesus and the attempted shoehorning of scriptures to justify this obsession is indicative of a distorted view of human sexuality. It is no wonder pedophilia is out of control in the RC hierarchies around the world.....and my guess is with all the denial, all the shuffling around of leaders to mitigate this hot potato it is just the tip of an enormous iceberg the size of which is yet to be determined.

quiet thinker?
That's just vomiting anti-Catholic bigotry.

 

[Lambano]

Mungo, just stop. We know what “until” means. Think! What is the author trying to communicate? Why did the author choose to say what he said the way he said it? How is language used to communicate ideas? There is absolutely no purpose in using Jesus’s birth as the reference point if you’re trying to say Mary and Joseph never had intercourse.

 

[Mungo]

Mungo, just stop. We know what “until” means. Think! What is the author trying to communicate? Why did the author choose to say what he said the way he said it? How is language used to communicate ideas? There is absolutely no purpose in using Jesus’s birth as the reference point if you’re trying to say Mary and Joseph never had intercourse.

I've given you scripture to prove my point.
You've just give your opinion.

until
n preposition & conjunction up to (the point in time or the event mentioned).
(Concise Oxford English Dictionary)

 

[theefaith]

Mungo, just stop. We know what “until” means. Think! What is the author trying to communicate? Why did the author choose to say what he said the way he said it? How is language used to communicate ideas? There is absolutely no purpose in using Jesus’s birth as the reference point if you’re trying to say Mary and Joseph never had intercourse.

the author is not defending the perpetual virginity of Mary here but the virgin birth

 

[Lambano]

The obsession with the virginity of Mary after the birth of Jesus and the attempted shoehorning of scriptures to justify this obsession is indicative of a distorted view of human sexuality.

A former Catholic lady in my Sunday School class observed that by falsely making virginity the paragon of Christian womanhood, the Catholic Church has done a disfavor to Christian women to whom God has given legitimate sexual desires. (Yes, women have sexual desires, and as a happily married husband, I’m grateful to God they do. ).

 

[Lambano]

the author is not defending the perpetual virginity of Mary here but the virgin birth

I agree. But the clear implication is that Mary and Joseph took up their 1 Corinthians 7:3 obligations to each other afterwards. I assume Joseph, being a righteous man, was a good husband to Mary, and Mary was a good wife to Joseph.

 

[Mungo]

A former Catholic lady in my Sunday School class observed that by falsely making virginity the paragon of Christian womanhood, the Catholic Church has done a disfavor to Christian women to whom God has given legitimate sexual desires. (Yes, women have sexual desires, and as a happily married husband, I’m grateful to God they do. ).

A former Catholic lady made a silly comment.

So what?

 

[farouk]

A former Catholic lady in my Sunday School class observed that by falsely making virginity the paragon of Christian womanhood, the Catholic Church has done a disfavor to Christian women to whom God has given legitimate sexual desires. (Yes, women have sexual desires, and as a happily married husband, I’m grateful to God they do. ).

@Lambano A married Godly woman is no less Godly than a Godly woman who is single.