Philippians 2:12

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charity

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'Wherefore, my beloved,
as ye have always obeyed,
not as in my presence only,
but now much more in my absence,

work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
For it is God which worketh in you
both to will and to do of His good pleasure.'

(Philippians 2:12)

Hello there,

This verse creates a problem in the minds of some, because, a) it appears to link salvation with works, and, b) that it appears to teach that we need to be in 'fear and trembling' before God. But, can salvation be earned by good works? & Should we be in 'fear and trembling' before our loving Heavenly Father?

* The first thing we should note, is that the words written, are, 'work out your salvation', and not, 'work for your salvation'. This makes a difference doesn't it? For there is a great difference between working 'for' something, and working 'out' something. :)

* Salvation is a free gift, given by God to all who have faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, as the One Who died for their sins. However, once salvation has been 'received', it needs to be worked out. See Ephesians 2:8-10:-

'For by grace are ye saved through faith;
and that not of yourselves:
it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast.
For we are His workmanship,
created in Christ Jesus unto good works,
which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.'

(Ephesians 2:8-10)

* Paul makes clear that salvation cannot be secured by works. He tells us, 'a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the law and the prophets testify. This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. ... For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law.' (Romans 3:21, 22 & 28)

* The, 'working out' of salvation, is working out in practice what God has already 'worked in' by His almighty power and grace: by walking before Him as those who are walking in newness of life, by faith; energised by His Spirit, in Christ Jesus. Seeking to please Him, and honour Him in our walk and witness, as those whose sins have been forgiven, and have the hope of eternal life in Christ Jesus their Lord.

* The 'fear and trembling' spoken of in this verse, is a reverential attitude towards God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure: for God's perfect love casts out all fear.

Praise His Holy Name!

In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
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marks

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Hi Charity,

I'd like to add there are two different words here, "Work out your salvation", katergadzomai, and "God works within you", ergon. Katergadzomai is more to work something to it's conclusion, a math problem, assembling a device, while ergon is to do a work, the original production of our desire and ability.

Jesus, the originator and completer of our faith.

That no flesh should glory in His presence.

Much love!
 

Waiting on him

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2 Corinthians 7:10-16 KJV
[10] For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death. [11] For behold this selfsame thing, that ye sorrowed after a godly sort, what carefulness it wrought in you, yea, what clearing of yourselves, yea, what indignation, yea, what fear, yea, what vehement desire, yea, what zeal, yea, what revenge! In all things ye have approved yourselves to be clear in this matter. [12] Wherefore, though I wrote unto you, I did it not for his cause that had done the wrong, nor for his cause that suffered wrong, but that our care for you in the sight of God might appear unto you. [13] Therefore we were comforted in your comfort: yea, and exceedingly the more joyed we for the joy of Titus, because his spirit was refreshed by you all. [14] For if I have boasted any thing to him of you, I am not ashamed; but as we spake all things to you in truth, even so our boasting, which I made before Titus, is found a truth. [15] And his inward affection is more abundant toward you, whilst he remembereth the obedience of you all, how with fear and trembling ye received him. [16] I rejoice therefore that I have confidence in you in all things.


Tecarta Bible
 

Davy

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Once again, some make an open attack against God's Word by men's doctrines (OSAS).

How silly it is to think we need to EXAMINE ourselves to see if we are remaining in The FAITH (1 Cor.11:27-32; 2 Cor.13:5).

Why, it would be a sin... to ask Jesus forgiveness of a future sin! That would be saying that His Blood shed on the cross wasn't good enough to forgive us of all sin, past, present, and future!
_______________________________________________

Yet that is exactly the ditch men's OSAS doctrines have dug for themselves. The devils behind such a doctrine are out to destroy as many Christian believers as possible with that doctrine, as those in the strongest version of that false doctrine are wrongly taught they no longer have need to repent to Jesus of anything, or even take Communion with Him! It's a doctrine like the old saying of, "do it if it feels good".
 

VictoryinJesus

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Once again, some make an open attack against God's Word by men's doctrines (OSAS).

How silly it is to think we need to EXAMINE ourselves to see if we are remaining in The FAITH (1 Cor.11:27-32; 2 Cor.13:5).

Why, it would be a sin... to ask Jesus forgiveness of a future sin! That would be saying that His Blood shed on the cross wasn't good enough to forgive us of all sin, past, present, and future!
_______________________________________________

Yet that is exactly the ditch men's OSAS doctrines have dug for themselves. The devils behind such a doctrine are out to destroy as many Christian believers as possible with that doctrine, as those in the strongest version of that false doctrine are wrongly taught they no longer have need to repent to Jesus of anything, or even take Communion with Him! It's a doctrine like the old saying of, "do it if it feels good".

Do you believe “whatsoever is born of God overcomes the world”? Do you believe once born of God always born of God? Does God abandon children born from above of the Spirit of God after they are conceived in and of Him?
 
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Waiting on him

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Do you believe “whatsoever is born of God overcomes the world”? Do you believe once born of God always born of God? Does God abandon children born from above of the Spirit of God after they are conceived in and of Him?
I believe!
The first two parts. The answer to the third is no
 

marks

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Once again, some make an open attack against God's Word by men's doctrines (OSAS).

How silly it is to think we need to EXAMINE ourselves to see if we are remaining in The FAITH (1 Cor.11:27-32; 2 Cor.13:5).

Why, it would be a sin... to ask Jesus forgiveness of a future sin! That would be saying that His Blood shed on the cross wasn't good enough to forgive us of all sin, past, present, and future!
_______________________________________________

Yet that is exactly the ditch men's OSAS doctrines have dug for themselves. The devils behind such a doctrine are out to destroy as many Christian believers as possible with that doctrine, as those in the strongest version of that false doctrine are wrongly taught they no longer have need to repent to Jesus of anything, or even take Communion with Him! It's a doctrine like the old saying of, "do it if it feels good".

Hi Davy,

Let's look at these passages.

1 Corinthians 11:27-32
27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.
29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.
31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.
32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

2 Corinthians 13
5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

The second verse tells us to examine ourselves to see if we ARE in the faith, not if we REMAIN in the faith. The first passage says nothing about either being in the faith, or remaining in the faith.

Are you seeing something here I'm not?

Much love!
 

marks

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Do you believe “whatsoever is born of God overcomes the world”? Do you believe once born of God always born of God? Does God abandon children born from above of the Spirit of God after they are conceived in and of Him?
. . . for He has promised, I will never leave you nor forsake you!

Much love!
 
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Nondenom40

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Once again, some make an open attack against God's Word by men's doctrines (OSAS).

How silly it is to think we need to EXAMINE ourselves to see if we are remaining in The FAITH (1 Cor.11:27-32; 2 Cor.13:5).

Why, it would be a sin... to ask Jesus forgiveness of a future sin! That would be saying that His Blood shed on the cross wasn't good enough to forgive us of all sin, past, present, and future!
_______________________________________________

Yet that is exactly the ditch men's OSAS doctrines have dug for themselves. The devils behind such a doctrine are out to destroy as many Christian believers as possible with that doctrine, as those in the strongest version of that false doctrine are wrongly taught they no longer have need to repent to Jesus of anything, or even take Communion with Him! It's a doctrine like the old saying of, "do it if it feels good".
I don't recall any of those words in the op. Can you show us where she even hinted that we don't have to repent or take communion? Shes said nothing of the kind. All shes done is explain that we don't work for our salvation. Do you take issue with that?
 
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marks

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It's a doctrine like the old saying of, "do it if it feels good".
Hi Davy,

On this part, are you saying that if I believe I'm permanently born again that it means I also believe in allowing complete license to my flesh desires?

Much love!
 

VictoryinJesus

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. . . for He has promised, I will never leave you nor forsake you!

Much love!

It is enough.

John 8:34-37 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. [35] And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever. [36] If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed. [37] I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.

Servant... or Son?Acts 3:16 And his name through faith in his name hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all.
 
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Davy

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Do you believe “whatsoever is born of God overcomes the world”? Do you believe once born of God always born of God? Does God abandon children born from above of the Spirit of God after they are conceived in and of Him?

When you decide to actually follow God's Word when asking such questions, then I will decide whether to answer or not. Until then, keep making up your own un-Biblical ideas, and I don't care to respond.
 

Davy

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Hi Davy,

Let's look at these passages.

1 Corinthians 11:27-32
27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.
29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.
31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.
32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

2 Corinthians 13
5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

The second verse tells us to examine ourselves to see if we ARE in the faith, not if we REMAIN in the faith. The first passage says nothing about either being in the faith, or remaining in the faith.

Are you seeing something here I'm not?

Much love!

I don't mean to rude, but it sure looks like it you have a blindness over your understanding.

There isn't any difference between the idea of whether one is remaining, or is... in The FAITH. The idea is about examining ourselves to see if we are following our Lord Jesus' and His Apostles' commandments or not. And if not, what do you think we instead would be doing? Following our flesh instead of course, which means sin, and ultimately death, spiritual death.

This is the problem in many pulpits today. Some preachers will pull a single word out of the Scripture and play with it in the people's minds for an hour while discarding the simple Scripture context which well explains the meaning.

There was good reason why our Lord Jesus included asking forgiveness of our sins in the prayer He told us to pray (Luke 11). It's because He knows while we are in this flesh we can never be perfect like He was in the flesh. Yet we are to strive to not sin. But when we do... He told us what to do. Repent and ask Him forgiveness (1 John 1). Then get back to working for Him. It's as simple as that. And this is what makes Christianity different than other faiths.
 

Davy

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I don't recall any of those words in the op. Can you show us where she even hinted that we don't have to repent or take communion? Shes said nothing of the kind. All shes done is explain that we don't work for our salvation. Do you take issue with that?

Then you weren't paying attention.

Charity said:
"The 'fear and trembling' spoken of in this verse, is a reverential attitude towards God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure: for God's perfect love casts out all fear."

Paul's meaning for that fear and trembling is indeed about examining ourselves for sin, to see if we are truly following Christ or not. It is about fearing God in respecting Him because He has power to cast our soul in the lake of fire. Is it a good thing to fear our flesh father punishing us for not obeying him? Yeah, respecting even our flesh father whom God put over us is a healthy thing too. It's no less with our Heavenly Father, The Father of our soul.

Our Lord Jesus even told us this in Matthew 10:28 that we aren't to fear those who kill our flesh body but not our soul, but to fear Him Who is able to destroy both body and soul in the lake of fire. Why would anyone want to change our Lord's warning there into some lovey-dovey idea that He did not... say???

OSAS instead throws that kind of thinking out the window, and interprets it like Charity did in the above statement. Her consolation is that it's not her fault for creating such thinking as OSAS, but we all will be held accountable for who we listen to and believe.
 

Davy

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Hi Davy,

On this part, are you saying that if I believe I'm permanently born again that it means I also believe in allowing complete license to my flesh desires?

Much love!

If you believe you cannot ever do a future sin after having believed on Jesus Christ, which means you also don't believe in any future need to repent or ask Jesus forgiveness, then you will have believed you have a FREE LICENSE to sin.
 

marks

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If you believe you cannot ever do a future sin after having believed on Jesus Christ, which means you also don't believe in any future need to repent or ask Jesus forgiveness, then you will have believed you have a FREE LICENSE to sin.
Looks like you're having my side of the conversation for me, so I don't have to continue.

OK.
 
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