Pick up where we left off

[Stranger]

In reading the Bible it is not hard to see that God is concerned with growth and maturity of the believer, His sons and daughters. Even before we are born-again God brings things into our lives to form us as He wants us. Then when we are born-again, we are as children of God learning and growing toward sonship. (Gal.3:26-4:3)

Because we have been born-again our ability to know God, to know about God, has been created in us. (Col. 3:10) And as we abide in Christ and grow as a believer, we are being changed into the image of Christ by the Spirit. (2 Cor. 3:18) We are getting to know God and Christ and know about God and Christ.

If we are abiding with Christ and in fellowship with Him, then we are getting to know Him more and more. And this is what Paul desired the most. (Philippians 3:7-10) "But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ...for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus...And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness...That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection...being made conformable unto his death;" Paul desired to know Jesus Christ more and more.

If indeed we are in fellowship with Christ and are getting to know Him more, we naturally will be learning more about Him. But it is possible that a believer can learn some things about Him, yet not be getting to know Him more. Which I believe can be a frustrating and incomplete walk as a believer. We see this distinction between Moses and Israel. (Ps. 103:7) "He made known his ways unto Moses, his acts unto the children of Israel." Israel saw God's works and knew that He was God. Moses knew the why of what God did. Moses knew His ways because Moses knew God.

As Christians we have the ability and responsibility to grow and know God and Christ. And if we are not abiding in Christ, getting to know God and Christ more and more, then we are being disobedient to that desire of God that we get to know Him. And, I do not think that, relationship wise, that when we get to heaven that all of a sudden I will have all knowledge and my relationship with God will be as great as it can ever be. I am convinced that we will always be learning about God, forever. And I am convinced that we will pick up there in our relationship to God and Christ, exactly where we left off here. If our relationship is poor here, then it will start there at the same point. If it is good here, it will start there at the same point.

It is possible that a believer, though he is saved, can have a poor relationship here with God and Christ. And that upon death or the Second Coming of Christ, he can be ashamed of his poor relationship. (1 John 2:28) "And now, little children,abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming." More than any thing, this encourages me to abide in Christ. To enter His presence and not be ashamed.

Stranger

 

[amadeus]

As Christians we have the ability and responsibility to grow and know God and Christ. And if we are not abiding in Christ, getting to know God and Christ more and more, then we are being disobedient to that desire of God that we get to know Him. And, I do not think that, relationship wise, that when we get to heaven that all of a sudden I will have all knowledge and my relationship with God will be as great as it can ever be. I am convinced that we will always be learning about God, forever. And I am convinced that we will pick up there in our relationship to God and Christ, exactly where we left off here. If our relationship is poor here, then it will start there at the same point. If it is good here, it will start there at the same point.

It is possible that a believer, though he is saved, can have a poor relationship here with God and Christ. And that upon death or the Second Coming of Christ, he can be ashamed of his poor relationship. (1 John 2:28) "And now, little children,abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming." More than any thing, this encourages me to abide in Christ. To enter His presence and not be ashamed.

Stranger

Actually Stranger I agreed with much of what you wrote here. I quoted only the part which raised a question in me. You speak of a "poor relationship" and that is what struck a wrong note with me. To me any relationship with God which results in us being with Him when our time here as carnal men is finished is a "good" relationship. If by "poor" you really meant some lessor good, then I would not disagree even if I could not agree wholeheartedly. If you mean that there are differences in believers according to what we have done with what we received from God during our time here, again I would agree.

 

[Helen]

Good post @Stranger ...excellent thoughts ..agree.
" Make you calling an election sure.." etc ..."Run , that we may obtain.." ...that good and faithful servant...not get in by the skin of our teeth.
Numerous people have said to me over the years- " I'll just be glad to get in.."
But, when that time comes even that will put them among the 'foolish virgins'...virgins yes...but foolish ones.

 

[Stranger]

Actually Stranger I agreed with much of what you wrote here. I quoted only the part which raised a question in me. You speak of a "poor relationship" and that is what struck a wrong note with me. To me any relationship with God which results in us being with Him when our time here as carnal men is finished is a "good" relationship. If by "poor" you really meant some lessor good, then I would not disagree even if I could not agree wholeheartedly. If you mean that there are differences in believers according to what we have done with what we received from God during our time here, again I would agree.

I believe that (1 John 2:28) indicates the possibility of our being ashamed at our meeting or the Second Coming of Christ. I know in my own life there are times when that could occur. Times when I stray away, not denying the Lord, but living more in the world than in Christ. Therefore, though I had a relationship at that time, it was poor, in that it was not active with the Lord.

I know my salvation is secure in Christ. But I certainly don't want to find my first meeting with Christ, one of shame due to my straying away and living in the world. I don't think He would have told us that in (1 John 2:28), if it were not possible.

Stranger

 

[mjrhealth]

I believe that (1 John 2:28) indicates the possibility of our being ashamed at our meeting or the Second Coming of Christ. I know in my own life there are times when that could occur. Times when I stray away, not denying the Lord, but living more in the world than in Christ. Therefore, though I had a relationship at that time, it was poor, in that it was not active with the Lord.

I know my salvation is secure in Christ. But I certainly don't want to find my first meeting with Christ, one of shame due to my straying away and living in the world. I don't think He would have told us that in (1 John 2:28), if it were not possible.

Stranger

Ashamed,

God knew full well since teh beginning what He was getting, What is there to be ashamed of. I have my ups and downs, but nothing surprises God. We are beautiful spirit, put in earthy vessels, What happens to teh vessel has no bearing on what is on teh inside. teh vessel is simply a container to keep that which is Gods safe until it can be redeemed back to Him.

 

[Stranger]

Good post @Stranger ...excellent thoughts ..agree.
" Make you calling an election sure.." etc ..."Run , that we may obtain.." ...that good and faithful servant...not get in by the skin of our teeth.
Numerous people have said to me over the years- " I'll just be glad to get in.."
But, when that time comes even that will put them among the 'foolish virgins'...virgins yes...but foolish ones.

Yes. If we are in a good and right relationship with God and Christ, when the time comes, either our death or Christ's coming, then we have confidence and peace in our meeting Him.

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

Ashamed,

God knew full well since teh beginning what He was getting, What is there to be ashamed of. I have my ups and downs, but nothing surprises God. We are beautiful spirit, put in earthy vessels, What happens to teh vessel has no bearing on what is on teh inside. teh vessel is simply a container to keep that which is Gods safe until it can be redeemed back to Him.

Well, just scratch (1 John 2:28) out of your Bible. Wait, never mind, your Bible means nothing to you anyway.

Stranger

 

[bbyrd009]

Yes. If we are in a good and right relationship with God and Christ, when the time comes, either our death or Christ's coming, then we have confidence and peace in our meeting Him.

Stranger

if you have not seen Him by then, you are going to get the "thief in the night" treatment, bro.

 

[mjrhealth]

Well, just scratch (1 John 2:28) out of your Bible. Wait, never mind, your Bible means nothing to you anyway.

Stranger

Well I guess teh question is , are you abiding in Him,, if you are, than that is not for you, is it...

 

[Stranger]

Well I guess teh question is , are you abiding in Him,, if you are, than that is not for you, is it...

No, the question you brought up was being 'ashamed' at the coming of Christ. Which you are denying, but which Scripture speaks of. Again, you have no authority to speak because your reject the Bible as the authoritative Word of God.

Stranger

 

[amadeus]

I believe that (1 John 2:28) indicates the possibility of our being ashamed at our meeting or the Second Coming of Christ. I know in my own life there are times when that could occur. Times when I stray away, not denying the Lord, but living more in the world than in Christ. Therefore, though I had a relationship at that time, it was poor, in that it was not active with the Lord.

I know my salvation is secure in Christ. But I certainly don't want to find my first meeting with Christ, one of shame due to my straying away and living in the world. I don't think He would have told us that in (1 John 2:28), if it were not possible.

Stranger

Well you made your position clearer to me. Thank you for your kindness.

 

[mjrhealth]

no authority to speak because your reject the Bible as the authoritative Word of God.

Authority does no0t come from the bible it comes from God, no one else. Where do you think the Prophets of old, and the disciples got theres from. As i said, teh bible has become an Idol greater than God Him self.

I will have no other Gods before Me

 

[Stranger]

Authority does no0t come from the bible it comes from God, no one else. Where do you think the Prophets of old, and the disciples got theres from. As i said, teh bible has become an Idol greater than God Him self.

I will have no other Gods before Me

The Bible comes from God.

Because it comes from God it is authoritative.

For one to see the Bible as from God and authoritative as the Word of God, does not make the Bible an idol. It is agreeing with God.

(Ps. 138:2) "...for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name."

(Ps. 119:1-176) Only 4 verses do not speak of the greatness of the written Word in this Psalm.

(Matt. 4:4,7,10) Jesus says, "It is written" giving all authority to the written Word. You however say the written Word is an idol.

Because of your dangerous view you cannot study the Bible. Why would anyone study that which has nothing to offer and is an idol? You therefore must pick up from what others have studied and said and then you bounce off of that. All the time deceiving yourself that your are getting some special revelation from Christ, when it actually comes from other believers who have studied the Bible. Which means you are getting it from the Bible.

And, if your are making up some new doctrine or 'truth' that contradicts the Bible, then you are still on very dangerous ground. This strange idea that the Bible is to be ignored and that only individual special revelation to each individual counts, comes out of hell. It is not from God.

Stranger

 

[tabletalk]

Actually Stranger I agreed with much of what you wrote here. I quoted only the part which raised a question in me. You speak of a "poor relationship" and that is what struck a wrong note with me. To me any relationship with God which results in us being with Him when our time here as carnal men is finished is a "good" relationship. If by "poor" you really meant some lessor good, then I would not disagree even if I could not agree wholeheartedly. If you mean that there are differences in believers according to what we have done with what we received from God during our time here, again I would agree.

"...being with Him when our time here as carnal men is finished..."

I don't think "carnal men" are believers, and therefore they will die in their sins.
Romans 8: 6. "For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8. So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God."

 

[prashanthd]

I believe that (1 John 2:28) indicates the possibility of our being ashamed at our meeting or the Second Coming of Christ. I know in my own life there are times when that could occur. Times when I stray away, not denying the Lord, but living more in the world than in Christ. Therefore, though I had a relationship at that time, it was poor, in that it was not active with the Lord.

I know my salvation is secure in Christ. But I certainly don't want to find my first meeting with Christ, one of shame due to my straying away and living in the world. I don't think He would have told us that in (1 John 2:28), if it were not possible.

Stranger

Jeremiah 17
10 I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.
Proverbs 5
21 For the ways of man are before the eyes of the LORD, and he pondereth all his goings.


I think that our life is a daily walk with God. I do not remember having read anywhere in the Bible where we have privilege to be complacent or something like - "Sit back and relax" !

Luke 12
19 And I will say to my soul, Soul, thou hast much goods laid up for many years; take thine ease, eat, drink, and be merry.
20 But God said unto him, Thou fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee: then whose shall those things be, which thou hast provided?
21 So is he that layeth up treasure for himself, and is not rich toward God.

Of course, we have to abide in Christ, but what we might face in the world around us!

Psalm 12
1 Help, LORD; for the godly man ceaseth; for the faithful fail from among the children of men.
Psalm 11
2 For, lo, the wicked bend their bow, they make ready their arrow upon the string, that they may privily shoot at the upright in heart.
Psalm 34
19 Many are the afflictions of the righteous: but the LORD delivereth him out of them all.

Our situation in this world is to strive never to let go off.
Psalm 28
3 Draw me not away with the wicked, and with the workers of iniquity, which speak peace to their neighbours, but mischief is in their hearts.

This is not exactly about the second coming of Jesus (it should sum up to the second coming, though) but at the micro level or our daily life. This is supposed to be consistent and steadfast.

James 2
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

Matthew 5
3 Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.


All glory to God.

 

[amadeus]

"...being with Him when our time here as carnal men is finished..."

I don't think "carnal men" are believers, and therefore they will die in their sins.
Romans 8: 6. "For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8. So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God."

I really do disagree with you. All of us who not yet overcome everything that stands between us and God are still in a measure carnal. [Who but Jesus overcame all of those things before natural death?] We remain as James calls it, "double minded" until the "old man" is completely and finally dead. When time here comes to an end the flesh will die with all of the "lust of the eyes, the lust of the flesh and the pride of life". What will remain for believers will be the "new man" who came into being when he was born again or born from above.

While the flesh endures and walks and talks it is enmity against God, but we have something better and greater in us which will overcome in the end... if we do not quench the Spirit more than we are IN the Spirit.

 

[Stranger]

Jeremiah 17
10 I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.
Proverbs 5
21 For the ways of man are before the eyes of the LORD, and he pondereth all his goings.


I think that our life is a daily walk with God. I do not remember having read anywhere in the Bible where we have privilege to be complacent or something like - "Sit back and relax" !

Luke 12
19 And I will say to my soul, Soul, thou hast much goods laid up for many years; take thine ease, eat, drink, and be merry.
20 But God said unto him, Thou fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee: then whose shall those things be, which thou hast provided?
21 So is he that layeth up treasure for himself, and is not rich toward God.

Of course, we have to abide in Christ, but what we might face in the world around us!

Psalm 12
1 Help, LORD; for the godly man ceaseth; for the faithful fail from among the children of men.
Psalm 11
2 For, lo, the wicked bend their bow, they make ready their arrow upon the string, that they may privily shoot at the upright in heart.
Psalm 34
19 Many are the afflictions of the righteous: but the LORD delivereth him out of them all.

Our situation in this world is to strive never to let go off.
Psalm 28
3 Draw me not away with the wicked, and with the workers of iniquity, which speak peace to their neighbours, but mischief is in their hearts.

This is not exactly about the second coming of Jesus (it should sum up to the second coming, though) but at the micro level or our daily life. This is supposed to be consistent and steadfast.

James 2
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

Matthew 5
3 Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.


All glory to God.

Good verses, all.

Stranger

 

[mjrhealth]

The Bible comes from God.

Because it comes from God it is authoritative.

I ll put it as our friend BOL puts it, "why do you quote teh catholic canon"?. Actually he is wrong, because I quote the corrupt KJ version copy of the catholic canon. As you see if you look in teh front page of your bible, it is copyrighted. Who can sell or copyright Gods word??? No one. Than they say" but you quote the bible" and all I can say is well you dont listen to anything else.

Than teh other night I was discussing this with a friend, who said " but they dont have anything else", as I answered , that is not true, because "all" christians who come to Christ, are given the Holy Spirit, God is no respecter of persons, but what you do with Him is up to you, He can be a door stop or your teacher, that is entirely up to you.

See you and ozpen are arguing over scripture, the entire topic on "who is right " is just about that,

Luk 9:46 Then there arose a reasoning among them, which of them should be greatest.
Luk 9:47 And Jesus, perceiving the thought of their heart, took a child, and set him by him,
Luk 9:48 And said unto them, Whosoever shall receive this child in my name receiveth me: and whosoever shall receive me receiveth him that sent me: for he that is least among you all, the same shall be great.

But christians love arguing over scripture. What about God who cares we have teh bible. God loves to find

Psa 105:3 Glory ye in his holy name: let the heart of them rejoice that seek the LORD.
Psa 105:4 Seek the LORD, and his strength: seek his face evermore.

But so few do, these ones are like Golden needles Hidden in a Hay stack, hard to find but worth all the effort, but they are a rare commodity.

So go and read you bible, without revelation from God, it will just be head knowledge and adds not a single dot to your salvation, How much study does one need to determine" I am the way the truth and teh life says teh Lord".

 

[tabletalk]

I really do disagree with you. All of us who not yet overcome everything that stands between us and God are still in a measure carnal. [Who but Jesus overcame all of those things before natural death?] We remain as James calls it, "double minded" until the "old man" is completely and finally dead. When time here comes to an end the flesh will die with all of the "lust of the eyes, the lust of the flesh and the pride of life". What will remain for believers will be the "new man" who came into being when he was born again or born from above.

While the flesh endures and walks and talks it is enmity against God, but we have something better and greater in us which will overcome in the end... if we do not quench the Spirit more than we are IN the Spirit.

I really appreciate you responding to my post. And I do agree we "are still in a measure carnal" as you said above. But, I'm concerned with how the Apostle Paul thought of himself, after conversion, compared with what he was before conversion. Here's where I'm getting this:

Romans 7"
13. "Has then what is good become death to me? Certainly not! But sin, that it might appear sin, was producing death in me through what is good, so that sin through the commandment might become exceedingly sinful. 14. For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15. For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. 16. If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. 17. But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 18. For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19. For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20. Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.

21. I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22. For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23. But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24. O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25. I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!

So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin."

So, he was only carnal, before conversion, with one nature; but after he was converted he now had two natures, the flesh (carnal) and the new creation (spiritual). So, he was not carnally minded any longer, but now spiritually minded; with the old man being put to death increasingly in his life, by the Spirit.
And, since Paul served the law of God with his mind, I think he would not have called himself a carnal man any longer.
This distinction might not be a big deal. Thanks for your thoughts on this.

 

[prashanthd]

May we discuss as to why the version of Bible being copyrighted, as another thread?