Points of impact for sin on our Kingdom spirit walk today

[APAK]

Some key points to remember about sin for a believer's walk of life
------------------------------------------------------------------
1. We continue to sin as a believer and not as an unbeliever. And our sins diminish in type and quantity over time.

2. We will never be perfect and thus never cease to sin whilst in the flesh.

3. We are not called sinners as unbelievers however because eventhough the Father still sees our sin it is covered and justified by the works of his Son and our genuine faith in them. We are thus righteous in the eyes of the Father. This is where the terms advocacy and the role of the high priest of the Son is so vital for our deliverance from the dead causes by sin; and death to the world.

4. Our relationship and seal with the Father and the Son as a believer for redemption and salvation can never be broken even because of sin. We always walk in the light although some in a much dimmer light. It can be minimized with only our spirits barely occupied by the Spirit of God, along with the Son however. It is desired by the Father that we walk in the brightest light with him, filled with his Spirit as humanly possible. We are practicing in the flesh, for living in the future as immortals in the mature Kingdom. Today we are in the Kingdom as types of hybrids, with one foot in this world and the other in the Kingdom, already established and growing by the Father and Son.

5. Unbelievers and the world are convicted and convinced of sin by the Spirit of God without grace. A believer is persuaded and convinced to confess their sins under grace where upon their growing relationship with the Father and Son can be restored, being momentarily again filled with the Spirit.

6. The Spirit of God and through the words of God, defines and communicates to a believer what is truly sin, and not subject to judgment or defined by human flesh, or the carnal mind or the world. This point is one to really understand meditate upon. Many believers fall into the trap of generating 'new' sins for themselves as they listen to the world and their own minds at times. False guilt then creeps in and fills their minds into their hearts and they may become neutralized and noneffective and less of a service to the Father as he desires, and for many years to come.

We need to pray about what sin is and is not, if required, especially every time before we begin to self-inflict wounds and walk apart in diminished light from the Father and Son, needlessly!

I can supply scripture to this thread OP upon request.


God Bless all as we live in and for the Kingdom of God today!

 

[Nancy]

Some key points to remember about sin for a believer's walk of life
------------------------------------------------------------------
1. We continue to sin as a believer and not as an unbeliever. And our sins diminish in type and quantity over time.

2. We will never be perfect and thus never cease to sin whilst in the flesh.

3. We are not called sinners as unbelievers however because eventhough the Father still sees our sin it is covered and justified by the works of his Son and our genuine faith in them. We are thus righteous in the eyes of the Father. This is where the terms advocacy and the role of the high priest of the Son is so vital for our deliverance from the dead causes by sin; and death to the world.

4. Our relationship and seal with the Father and the Son as a believer for redemption and salvation can never be broken even because of sin. We always walk in the light although some in a much dimmer light. It can be minimized with only our spirits barely occupied by the Spirit of God, along with the Son however. It is desired by the Father that we walk in the brightest light with him, filled with his Spirit as humanly possible. We are practicing in the flesh, for living in the future as immortals in the mature Kingdom. Today we are in the Kingdom as types of hybrids, with one foot in this world and the other in the Kingdom, already established and growing by the Father and Son.

5. Unbelievers and the world are convicted and convinced of sin by the Spirit of God without grace. A believer is persuaded and convinced to confess their sins under grace where upon their growing relationship with the Father and Son can be restored, being momentarily again filled with the Spirit.

6. The Spirit of God and through the words of God, defines and communicates to a believer what is truly sin, and not subject to judgment or defined by human flesh, or the carnal mind or the world. This point is one to really understand meditate upon. Many believers fall into the trap of generating 'new' sins for themselves as they listen to the world and their own minds at times. False guilt then creeps in and fills their minds into their hearts and they may become neutralized and noneffective and less of a service to the Father as he desires, and for many years to come.

We need to pray about what sin is and is not, if required, especially every time before we begin to self-inflict wounds and walk apart in diminished light from the Father and Son, needlessly!

I can supply scripture to this thread OP upon request.


God Bless all as we live in and for the Kingdom of God today!

Hi APAK!
We are to walk by The Spirit, be led by The Spirit, be filled with The Spirit.
When you say, " being momentarily again filled with the Spirit.", does that mean God takes His Spirit from us, even though we are walking in the light as He is? Or is it supposed to be if/when we sin once again? I thought we received the Spirit of God for good, as a seal. I do understand He blesses severely as He wills with the gifts...just wondering if we grieve the Spirit of God, does He leave our presence? Then once we again repent, He comes back? Things that make you go, Hmm. LOL!

 

[APAK]

Hi APAK!
We are to walk by The Spirit, be led by The Spirit, be filled with The Spirit.
When you say, " being momentarily again filled with the Spirit.", does that mean God takes His Spirit from us, even though we are walking in the light as He is? Or is it supposed to be if/when we sin once again? I thought we received the Spirit of God for good, as a seal. I do understand He blesses severely as He wills with the gifts...just wondering if we grieve the Spirit of God, does He leave our presence? Then once we again repent, He comes back? Things that make you go, Hmm. LOL!

To your question Nancy. There is no human being less Yahshua, that can maintain 'full to the brim' Spirit of God because we sin. It is that simple. If we were truly sinless here on this planet then it would not be 'momentarily...' And it is not God that takes away his spirit or part of his spirit to be more precise, we do. We have a habit of filling it in with 'bad' works of sin. He would be delighted to give us all 100%, all the time although we cannot stop ourselves from falling short and not making room for it all in our heart and spirit.

Filled with the spirit means FILLED to the max....not 3/4 full....etc
Now there is s difference between the indwelling of the Spirit and being FULL of the Spirit.

Our indwelling or of 'minimal 'amount of Spirit is permanent and as a seal as you also remarked...cannot get these two confused...
John 14:16 for example and those indwelt with the Spirit on Pentecost..
Cited versed in the OT and NT speak of individuals being filled with the Spirit of God. Do no think for a moment they stayed that way 100% for the rest of their lives...there were hiccups along the way I assure you...they sinned and had to repent I sure of it.

At the moment you repent of sin and ask for forgiveness you cannot be completely filled with the spirit......it must be forgiven first of course.

 

[Nancy]

Thank you APAK, agreed!

 

[Michiah-Imla]

We continue to sin as a believer

Sure, if you choose to serve sin:

“Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?” (Romans 6:16)

I serve obedience.

I serve Christ my Lord!

We will never be perfect

“Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.” (Matthew 5:48)

“…Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you.” (2 Corinthians 13:11)

eventhough the Father still sees our sin it is covered and justified by the works of his Son

“For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,” (Hebrews 10:26)

“Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?” (Hebrews 10:29)

Reconsider your position @APAK

 

[APAK]

Sure, if you choose to serve sin:

“Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?” (Romans 6:16)

I serve obedience.

I serve Christ my Lord!



“Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.” (Matthew 5:48)

“…Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you.” (2 Corinthians 13:11)



“For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,” (Hebrews 10:26)

“Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?” (Hebrews 10:29)

Reconsider your position @APAK

Well I won't spend too much time on you sheer lack of understanding of scripture you posed as some sort of counter-argument to my thread. You lack understanding of this scripture is remarkable. All the scripture you presented here does not even touch the subject at hand.

Do you really believe you are always in control and can be perfect without sin, and that you can never serve sin, aye? Even trying to be really ''good' as a good legalist, like a monk hidden away in the mountains? That speaks volumes about your hubris attitude and ignorance on the subject.

So explain to me how you can choose to serve or not to serve sin, as you say, even we you try so hard not to at times, and to not even carry a deep-seated grudge about a person that weighs heavy on your heart (HS influencing you) e and you really need confession and forgiveness? It should make for an interesting explanation and maybe for a quick exit on your part, out of here.

Happy Trails

Why are you digging a hole for yourself is amazing to me.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

I won’t bother wasting anymore time with you:

“My soul is among lions: and I lie even among them that are set on fire, even the sons of men, whose teeth are spears and arrows, and their tongue a sharp sword.” (Psalms 57:4)

Happy Trails!

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Do you really believe you are always in control and can be perfect without sin, and that you can never serve sin, aye?

Do YOU really believe that God did these things to a people who could NOT stop sinning?

“They come to fight with the Chaldeans, but it is to fill them with the dead bodies of men, whom I have slain in mine anger and in my fury, and for all whose wickedness I have hid my face from this city.” (Jeremiah 33:5)

 

[WalterandDebbie]

Some key points to remember about sin for a believer's walk of life
------------------------------------------------------------------
1. We continue to sin as a believer and not as an unbeliever. And our sins diminish in type and quantity over time.

2. We will never be perfect and thus never cease to sin whilst in the flesh.

3. We are not called sinners as unbelievers however because eventhough the Father still sees our sin it is covered and justified by the works of his Son and our genuine faith in them. We are thus righteous in the eyes of the Father. This is where the terms advocacy and the role of the high priest of the Son is so vital for our deliverance from the dead causes by sin; and death to the world.

4. Our relationship and seal with the Father and the Son as a believer for redemption and salvation can never be broken even because of sin. We always walk in the light although some in a much dimmer light. It can be minimized with only our spirits barely occupied by the Spirit of God, along with the Son however. It is desired by the Father that we walk in the brightest light with him, filled with his Spirit as humanly possible. We are practicing in the flesh, for living in the future as immortals in the mature Kingdom. Today we are in the Kingdom as types of hybrids, with one foot in this world and the other in the Kingdom, already established and growing by the Father and Son.

5. Unbelievers and the world are convicted and convinced of sin by the Spirit of God without grace. A believer is persuaded and convinced to confess their sins under grace where upon their growing relationship with the Father and Son can be restored, being momentarily again filled with the Spirit.

6. The Spirit of God and through the words of God, defines and communicates to a believer what is truly sin, and not subject to judgment or defined by human flesh, or the carnal mind or the world. This point is one to really understand meditate upon. Many believers fall into the trap of generating 'new' sins for themselves as they listen to the world and their own minds at times. False guilt then creeps in and fills their minds into their hearts and they may become neutralized and noneffective and less of a service to the Father as he desires, and for many years to come.

We need to pray about what sin is and is not, if required, especially every time before we begin to self-inflict wounds and walk apart in diminished light from the Father and Son, needlessly!

I can supply scripture to this thread OP upon request.


God Bless all as we live in and for the Kingdom of God today!

Hello APAK, How are you? as I was reading your post I could not help myself from thinking, while we yield ourselves to whom we ought to obey is Christ so that we would not lust.

Romans 6

1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.

10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.

11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.

20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.

21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.

22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Read full chapter

Love, Walter

 

[APAK]

Hello APAK, How are you? as I was reading your post I could not help myself from thinking, while we yield ourselves to whom we ought to obey is Christ so that we would not lust.

Romans 6

1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.

10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.

11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.

20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.

21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.

22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Read full chapter

Love, Walter

And what is your answer to your question you were thinking on Walter?

 

[Wrangler]

When you say, " being momentarily again filled with the Spirit.", does that mean God takes His Spirit from us

It is a great question. The only reason we are told to take our thoughts captive in obedience to Christ is BECAUSE we have the sovereign liberty to NOT do so. Similarly, we can choose to be filled in REACTION to the circumstances of our life. Enter the Shabbat.

Enter communion.

Enter constant prayer.

We must choose, moment by moment to ponder what is good, and pure, noble and worthy. If we do, of course, our lord is 1st of our considerations. If we choose not to, of course, we are not filled with his divine spirit.

So, in conclusion, it is never God who choose to take his Spirit from us. It is we who chose to be filled in that moment with something else, e.g., health, finances, relationships, loss, fear/worry/anxiety.

 

[WalterandDebbie]

And what is your answer to your question you were thinking on Walter?

Well APAK, I was thinking of what Jesus said in John 8:34
30 As he spake these words, many believed on him.

31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;

32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?

34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.

36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

 

[Wrangler]

Well I won't spend too much time on you sheer lack of understanding of scripture you posed as some sort of counter-argument to my thread. You lack understanding of this scripture is remarkable. All the scripture you presented here does not even touch the subject at hand.

I've noticed this pattern by others as well.

It is as if they come to a forum NOT to engage in conversation. The OP asserts a premise or poses a question (stated explicitly or implicitly). Initial replies to articulate one's thought's relative to the OP's premise. Examples include:

Yes, I agree.​

No, I do not agree.​

​

In Jesus Revolution, which I watched last night in the movie theater, someone said how complicated things are. The response was, the truth is simple. (I do believe I make that point more than most on this forum.)

In the case of our friend, @Michiah-Imla, he might feel to explain his implied position. Such as by saying No I don't agree because the following verse is relevant and contradicts your position on point. Instead, he makes an Appeal to Superman, where we are left to divine the intent of his post. <sigh>

 

[Mr E]

In Jesus Revolution, which I watched last night in the movie theater, someone said how complicated things are. The response was, the truth is simple. (I do believe I make that point more than most on this forum.)

Off topic-- sorry! I have to ask... did you enjoy it?

 

[APAK]

Well APAK, I was thinking of what Jesus said in John 8:34
30 As he spake these words, many believed on him.

31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;

32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?

34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.

36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

Yes Walter I do understand the verses you quote here including your previous one of Romans 6.

Now I would think it would be wise to watch words that are not intended for scripture under study and especially that that cause alarms to be pulled and the cries of fire, fire. They get folks very emotional indeed and the plot is lost in the confusion.

Now Paul in Romans speaks of believers as not into habitual sin once the Spirit indwells within them. He does not say one will never sin, or be inclined to sin as before. And this does not keep as a believer a slave or servant to sin as they are under grace in the house of the Father forever. And we now do not freely sin as before. We do not make a lifestyle out of sin anymore. Sin does not reign in our bodies anymore.

In John 8, who is Christ speaking to? Pharisees, unbelievers, legalists, those that say they are basically without sin or they would at least suggest it. Christ uses their comment of not being a slave to no man saying they are slaves to sin however, to shut them up and to point to the lord in their lives - sin. They are under the law. Christ is not speaking to a believer here or even potential future believers. We need not be carried away with his words and misapply them to a believer. Keep the context intact. The law kills indeed and the grace of God saves.

And Christ says in verse 36 to these men under law, he shall make them free from the law and the bite that sin causes - death. Under the law, sin without the Spirit of God causes death. Again he is not speaking to a believer. .....

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Nevermind

 

[Michiah-Imla]

“But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ; How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.” (Jude 1:17-18)

Wether you walk in ungodly lusts a little or much makes no difference. Sin is sin wether you sin much or a little.

So much intellectual energy that some spend to protect sin is very telling.

 

[Wrangler]

Off topic-- sorry! I have to ask... did you enjoy it?

Yes. Solid 3-star movie.

Unique thing is when it was over, a women announced her name, praised Jesus for his revolution and asked if she could pray.

Many cheered.

I said, let’s do it.

She prayed.

Many clapped and cheered.

Another woman hugged my wife and I walking out of the theater.

I hope you have a similar experience when you see the film.

 

[APAK]

“But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ; How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.” (Jude 1:17-18)

Wether you walk in ungodly lusts a little or much makes no difference. Sin is sin wether you sin much or a little.

So much intellectual energy that some spend to protect sin is very telling.

Well if you are not under the influence of drugs or alcohol then why the strife and confusion in your words here? You can just chill a bit and explain yourself without contempt?

You have certainly already managed to make a nuisance of yourself again as I see you have done on other threads recently. When did you begin to write this way? I don't believe your words conveyed such obtuseness and antagonism before.

 

[Behold]

2. We will never be perfect and thus never cease to sin whilst in the flesh.

Before Paul was born again he said that he was blameless in the law.
He had kept it, and later found that Christianity is not based on that,..... and discovered that in his inner man there is a tremendous conflict that occurs if he tried to strive to be holy in his flesh, (self effort)...., as this warred against who he had become in Christ.
This was happening in his HEAD. He had to get his MIND right.
He teaches this as "renewing your MIND".

Paul realized that in his body, his flesh, his natural mind = is no good thing, and to try to live the life of a Christian was actually void of any power from God, if you try to do it by self effort and striving to be good.
He learned that he was made righteous by the blood of Jesus and learned to live holiness according to "i can do all through Christ".
That understanding freed him from himself, his natural mind, and enlisted the renewed mind of real faith that he discovered accesses the Power of Christ, so that he then remained here..."Christ always gives me the Victory"... over flesh, the world, and the devil.
All believers are to come to this unity of the Faith, this renewed mind., which allows the believer deliverance from self righteousness that drives carnality and leads to works of the flesh and condemnation.

After Paul was born again he wrote most of the Epistles in the New Testament, and never did he state that he confessed sin.
He wrote Romans 4:8.... that teaches that because Christ has bore all our sin, and we are made righteous, God does not charge sin against the born again.
Why is that?
Because God has already judged Jesus for the sin of us all, and applied this redemption that is gained by Christ's Sacrifice to all who have believed and are born again.
The born again are "made free from sin", and are become "the righteousness of God in Christ".

Confessing sin that Christ has paid for 2000 yrs ago, happens because the person does not understand Salvation, or the New Birth, or what happened on the Cross of Christ that Jesus said from the Cross..."it is finished".