Pope prays with Protestants on Reformation day

[junobet]

It’s Reformation day. The 499th! All this year Protestants around the world will be celebrating in anticipation of the 500th year anniversary. And what’s most amazing: the Catholic Pope joins in and prays and celebrates with us! How wonderful such reconciliation is. Praise God!
“Pope Francis has taken part in events to commemorate the anniversary of the Protestant Reformation during his trip to Sweden.
The Pope appealed to Catholics and Lutherans to "mend" history and look with honesty at the past, "recognising error and seeking forgiveness".
By tradition, on 31 October 1517 the German theologian Martin Luther nailed his 95 theses to the door of a church.
The papal visit kicks off a year of events to mark the quincentenary.
Pope Francis and Lutheran leaders presided over a ecumenical prayer service in Lund cathedral in southern Sweden on Monday.
The leader of the Roman Catholic Church praised the Reformation for helping to give greater centrality to scripture in the church's life.
Luther's pamphlet attacked excesses and abuses within the church, and his actions and writings were hugely significant in the schism which developed in Western Christianity, which became known as the Reformation.
Luther was subsequently excommunicated, but his teachings spread throughout northern Europe.
Decades of religious wars in Europe followed.
(…)
In a joint statement, the Roman Catholic Church and the Lutheran World Federation said that both partners "are no longer strangers" and that their joint goal was to bring members of the two churches together at the Eucharistic table.
Pope Francis has previously praised Luther for his fight against corruption and greed in the church of the time.
He has also criticised his own church, calling on it to shun greed.”

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-37827736

 

[Josho]

Great post, St Francis has been a great influence to the Catholic Church and other Christians, and has gone through lengths other Popes have never been through before, he doesn't seem to carry the same religious spirit around like the others, he seems to be a lot more lively and is not afraid to speak the truth and is actually doing something about the corruption in his own Church. There's no doubt St Francis is a born again Christian.

 

[Stranger]

What is the basis for so called 'reconciliation'?

Stranger

 

[tom55]

What is the basis for so called 'reconciliation'?

Stranger

http://w2.vatican.va/content/francesco/en/events/event.dir.html/content/vaticanevents/en/2016/10/31/dichiarazione-congiunta.html

 

[Stranger]

http://w2.vatican.va/content/francesco/en/events/event.dir.html/content/vaticanevents/en/2016/10/31/dichiarazione-congiunta.html

What will they do with 'doctrine'?

Stranger

 

[junobet]

What is the basis for so called 'reconciliation'?

Stranger

“Therefore, if any man is in Christ, he is a new creature. Old things have passed away. Look, all things have become new. 18 All this is from God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ and has given to us the ministry of reconciliation, 19 that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their sins against them, and has entrusted to us the message of reconciliation. 20 So we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us. We implore you in Christ’s stead: Be reconciled to God. 21 God made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.“ (2 Cor 5:17.21)


How can Christianity give credible witness of God reconciling the world unto himself in Christ, if we can’t even be reconciled to each other?

Thank God ecumenical talks have made enormous progress for the past 50 years. Lutherans and Catholics managed to formulate a joined declaration on justification, the very topic that let to our division 500 years ago: http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/documents/rc_pc_chrstuni_doc_31101999_cath-luth-joint-declaration_en.html
The next big step is sharing the eucharist. Over here in Europe the Christian base, both Catholic and Protestant, is eagerly awaiting that. We don’t care about lofty theological arguments about transsubstantiation, we just want to share communion.

 

[Stranger]

“Therefore, if any man is in Christ, he is a new creature. Old things have passed away. Look, all things have become new. 18 All this is from God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ and has given to us the ministry of reconciliation, 19 that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their sins against them, and has entrusted to us the message of reconciliation. 20 So we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us. We implore you in Christ’s stead: Be reconciled to God. 21 God made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.“ (2 Cor 5:17.21)


How can Christianity give credible witness of God reconciling the world unto himself in Christ, if we can’t even be reconciled to each other?

Thank God ecumenical talks have made enormous progress for the past 50 years. Lutherans and Catholics managed to formulate a joined declaration on justification, the very topic that let to our division 500 years ago: http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/documents/rc_pc_chrstuni_doc_31101999_cath-luth-joint-declaration_en.html
The next big step is sharing the eucharist. Over here in Europe the Christian base, both Catholic and Protestant, is eagerly awaiting that. We don’t care about lofty theological arguments about transsubstantiation, we just want to share communion.

In most Protestant churches I have been part of, the communion was an open communion. Meaning the only requirement in partaking of it was that you were a Christian. There are some churches that are closed communion in that you have to be a member of that church to partake.

If a Catholic came in he or she would have been allowed communion in the open communion churches. I don't know what the Lutheran church where you go does, or what the Catholics would allow. I don't understand why you feel it is so important to partake of Catholic communion. Surely your church offers communion. Or do you not consider your Lutheran communion legitimate?

Well, if you don't care about lofty arguments, others will take care of them for you. I don't really think you mean that. The common man has been given the Bible. Do you now want to hand it back?

Stranger

 

[junobet]

In most Protestant churches I have been part of, the communion was an open communion. Meaning the only requirement in partaking of it was that you were a Christian. There are some churches that are closed communion in that you have to be a member of that church to partake.

If a Catholic came in he or she would have been allowed communion in the open communion churches. I don't know what the Lutheran church where you go does, or what the Catholics would allow. I don't understand why you feel it is so important to partake of Catholic communion. Surely your church offers communion. Or do you not consider your Lutheran communion legitimate?

Well, if you don't care about lofty arguments, others will take care of them for you. I don't really think you mean that. The common man has been given the Bible. Do you now want to hand it back?

Stranger

Well Stranger, you don’t seem to know much about Christianity outside the Bible-Belt and I don’t blame you. God knows I learn daily how little I know about Christianity outside Europe.

The situation over here is that – for historical reasons – some regions are almost entirely Catholic and some are almost entirely Protestant. For example I grew up at the border between Catholic Westphalia and Protestant Hessia. But of course populations mix, Protestants and Catholics work together, are friends and even intermarry. And you would want to share communion with your friends, co-workers and family, wouldn’t you? Alas, it is not always possible:
One of the big issues that split Catholics from Lutherans and Lutherans from Calvinists and Calvinists from Zwinglians … was that they held different dogmatic beliefs about what happened at the Eucharist, all of them basing their beliefs on their respective understanding of the Bible. These days you’ll be hard-pressed to find a layman who can explain the difference between these beliefs, but Eucharist theology was a big thing in the 15th/16th century and Christians showered each other with condemnations over it. By now most Protestant Churches have overcome their differences to the extent that they have open communion. But the Roman Catholic Church still doesn’t allow for Protestants to receive the Eucharist from a Catholic Priest: http://www.irishtimes.com/news/german-bishop-suspends-priest-over-mixed-communion-1.366546

But as I said: there’s hope.

 

[Stranger]

Well Stranger, you don’t seem to know much about Christianity outside the Bible-Belt and I don’t blame you. God knows I learn daily how little I know about Christianity outside Europe.

The situation over here is that – for historical reasons – some regions are almost entirely Catholic and some are almost entirely Protestant. For example I grew up at the border between Catholic Westphalia and Protestant Hessia. But of course populations mix, Protestants and Catholics work together, are friends and even intermarry. And you would want to share communion with your friends, co-workers and family, wouldn’t you? Alas, it is not always possible:
One of the big issues that split Catholics from Lutherans and Lutherans from Calvinists and Calvinists from Zwinglians … was that they held different dogmatic beliefs about what happened at the Eucharist, all of them basing their beliefs on their respective understanding of the Bible. These days you’ll be hard-pressed to find a layman who can explain the difference between these beliefs, but Eucharist theology was a big thing in the 15th/16th century and Christians showered each other with condemnations over it. By now most Protestant Churches have overcome their differences to the extent that they have open communion. But the Roman Catholic Church still doesn’t allow for Protestants to receive the Eucharist from a Catholic Priest: http://www.irishtimes.com/news/german-bishop-suspends-priest-over-mixed-communion-1.366546

But as I said: there’s hope.

I certainly think those laymen need to know the differences in the communion services. Perhaps this unity is the result of the lay peoples ignorance of such things. But there were many other things that did and still do divide Catholic and Protestant.

I'm not for unity just for unities sake. It must be based on something. And though Catholics and Protestants both worship Jesus Christ the tenets of our faith are too different to form a unity. And neither will ever drop them.

Stranger

 

[junobet]

I certainly think those laymen need to know the differences in the communion services. Perhaps this unity is the result of the lay peoples ignorance of such things. But there were many other things that did and still do divide Catholic and Protestant.

I'm not for unity just for unities sake. It must be based on something. And though Catholics and Protestants both worship Jesus Christ the tenets of our faith are too different to form a unity. And neither will ever drop them.

Stranger

What’s worse than unity just for unities sake is division just for division’s sake.
Remember, Christians are called to unity: Eph. 4:1-16.

Frankly: I’d be very surprised if you knew the finer theological differences between Roman Catholics, Lutherans, Anglicans, Calvinists, Zwinglians, Methodists … concerning the eucharist. I certainly would have to look them up myself. All these views are based on the Bible, albeit different interpretations thereof.
There was a time when Zwinglians, Calvinists and Lutherans … were arguing bitterly about these interpretations, and yet they managed to reach a consensus. These days Protestants who believe in the real presence of Christ during the Eucharist and Protestants who believe in a symbolic presence share communion without the slightest problem and in the brotherly spirit that it should be shared.
I sure hope our Protestants and Catholic theologians can find common ground on which a similar consensus can be based. For starters it’s certainly good to hear that the Pope and Munib Younan, President of the Lutheran World Federation, acknowledges the fact that many Christians long for that.

You yourself praised your churches’ open communion, but I get the impression you would not ever want to share communion with a Catholic. Why would that be? Surely you know what the Bible has to say about bearing grudges, aren’t you?

 

[Stranger]

What’s worse than unity just for unities sake is division just for division’s sake.
Remember, Christians are called to unity: Eph. 4:1-16.

Frankly: I’d be very surprised if you knew the finer theological differences between Roman Catholics, Lutherans, Anglicans, Calvinists, Zwinglians, Methodists … concerning the eucharist. I certainly would have to look them up myself. All these views are based on the Bible, albeit different interpretations thereof.
There was a time when Zwinglians, Calvinists and Lutherans … were arguing bitterly about these interpretations, and yet they managed to reach a consensus. These days Protestants who believe in the real presence of Christ during the Eucharist and Protestants who believe in a symbolic presence share communion without the slightest problem and in the brotherly spirit that it should be shared.
I sure hope our Protestants and Catholic theologians can find common ground on which a similar consensus can be based. For starters it’s certainly good to hear that the Pope and Munib Younan, President of the Lutheran World Federation, acknowledges the fact that many Christians long for that.

You yourself praised your churches’ open communion, but I get the impression you would not ever want to share communion with a Catholic. Why would that be? Surely you know what the Bible has to say about bearing grudges, aren’t you?

Yes, we as Christians are to seek the unity of the faith among the brethren and sistern. And I am not saying to divide for divisions sake. I am saying the things we believe the Scriptures are teaching us will cause us to divide. And, if there is to be a complete unity of all denominations, then those things we believe Scripture is saying must be agreed by all or ignored by all. You seem to be suggesting that we should ignore those things for the sake of unity. I am saying we cannot.

Understand that there is only One Body of Christ, His Church. Though there be many denominations, the Body of Christ is composed of all born-again believers. There are plenty of people in the Catholic Church, and Protestant churches, that are not Christian. And they are not part of the Body of Christ. But there are many Catholics and Protestants who are born-again, and they are unified in the Body of Christ, though they have different doctrines of faith. What I am saying is that there is a unity in the Church as Christ only has one Church.

Well, I would enjoy sharing communion with any Catholic Christian in Churches which offer open communion. Would I take communion in the Catholic Church? I don't think they allow it first of all. Second of all, I probably would not for reasons I do understand about the mass. Would you?

Stranger

 

[epostle1]

2. No one is unaware of the challenge which all this poses to believers. They cannot fail to meet this challenge. Indeed, how could they refuse to do everything possible, with God's help, to break down the walls of division and distrust, to overcome obstacles and prejudices which thwart the proclamation of the Gospel of salvation in the Cross of Jesus, the one Redeemer of man, of every individual?
I thank the Lord that he has led us to make progress along the path of unity and communion between Christians, a path difficult but so full of joy. Interconfessional dialogues at the theological level have produced positive and tangible results: this encourages us to move forward.

Nevertheless, besides the doctrinal differences needing to be resolved, Christians cannot underestimate the burden of long-standing misgivings inherited from the past, and of mutual misunderstandings and prejudices. Complacency, indifference and insufficient knowledge of one another often make this situation worse. Consequently, the commitment to ecumenism must be based upon the conversion of hearts and upon prayer, which will also lead to the necessary purification of past memories. With the grace of the Holy Spirit, the Lord's disciples, inspired by love, by the power of the truth and by a sincere desire for mutual forgiveness and reconciliation, are called to re-examine together their painful past and the hurt which that past regrettably continues to provoke even today. All together, they are invited by the ever fresh power of the Gospel to acknowledge with sincere and total objectivity the mistakes made and the contingent factors at work at the origins of their deplorable divisions. What is needed is a calm, clear-sighted and truthful vision of things, a vision enlivened by divine mercy and capable of freeing people's minds and of inspiring in everyone a renewed willingness, precisely with a view to proclaiming the Gospel to the men and women of every people and nation.

[SIZE=14.6667px]3. At the Second Vatican Council, the Catholic Church committed herself [/SIZE]irrevocably[SIZE=14.6667px] to following the path of the ecumenical venture, thus heeding the Spirit of the Lord, who teaches people to interpret carefully the "signs of the times" . The experiences of these years have made the Church even more profoundly aware of her identity and her mission in history. The Catholic Church acknowledges and confesses [/SIZE]the weaknesses of her members,[SIZE=14.6667px] conscious that their sins are so many betrayals of and obstacles to the accomplishment of the Saviour's plan. Because she feels herself constantly called to be renewed in the spirit of the Gospel, she does not cease to do penance. At the same time, she acknowledges and exalts still more [/SIZE]the power of the Lord,[SIZE=14.6667px] who fills her with the gift of holiness, leads her forward, and conforms her to his Passion and Resurrection.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14.6667px]Pope John Paul II, Ut Unam Sint (that they may be one)[/SIZE]

 

[junobet]

Yes, we as Christians are to seek the unity of the faith among the brethren and sistern. And I am not saying to divide for divisions sake. I am saying the things we believe the Scriptures are teaching us will cause us to divide. And, if there is to be a complete unity of all denominations, then those things we believe Scripture is saying must be agreed by all or ignored by all. You seem to be suggesting that we should ignore those things for the sake of unity. I am saying we cannot.

Understand that there is only One Body of Christ, His Church. Though there be many denominations, the Body of Christ is composed of all born-again believers. There are plenty of people in the Catholic Church, and Protestant churches, that are not Christian. And they are not part of the Body of Christ. But there are many Catholics and Protestants who are born-again, and they are unified in the Body of Christ, though they have different doctrines of faith. What I am saying is that there is a unity in the Church as Christ only has one Church.

I’m not at all suggesting, we must ignore our differences, I’m saying we should try to resolve them. Just as Lutherans and Catholics did when through ecumenical dialogue they arrived at a “a common understanding of our justification by God's grace through faith in Christ.”

Well, I would enjoy sharing communion with any Catholic Christian in Churches which offer open communion. Would I take communion in the Catholic Church? I don't think they allow it first of all. Second of all, I probably would not for reasons I do understand about the mass. Would you?

Stranger

Actually I’ve been to many a Catholic mass and it hasn’t done me any harm, I even heard a good sermon here and there. Seeing that I have no problems with receiving the Eucharist from a Pastors viewing it from Lutheran and Anglican angles whereas I myself am more inclined towards a Reformed view, I wouldn’t have a problem with receiving the Eucharist from a Catholic Priest, should I be invited. Why should I?

 

[Stranger]

I’m not at all suggesting, we must ignore our differences, I’m saying we should try to resolve them. Just as Lutherans and Catholics did when through ecumenical dialogue they arrived at a “a common understanding of our justification by God's grace through faith in Christ.”


Actually I’ve been to many a Catholic mass and it hasn’t done me any harm, I even heard a good sermon here and there. Seeing that I have no problems with receiving the Eucharist from a Pastors viewing it from Lutheran and Anglican angles whereas I myself am more inclined towards a Reformed view, I wouldn’t have a problem with receiving the Eucharist from a Catholic Priest, should I be invited. Why should I?

Our differences are too great. You would either have to quit being Protestant or quit being Catholic. Of course the less the Bible is seen as inspired by God the easier it gets to conform to others beliefs or rituals.

BYOW. Bring your own wine.

Stranger

 

[junobet]

Our differences are too great. You would either have to quit being Protestant or quit being Catholic. Of course the less the Bible is seen as inspired by God the easier it gets to conform to others beliefs or rituals.

BYOW. Bring your own wine.

Stranger

I’ve never been Catholic, Stranger, but come from a long line of staunch Prussian Protestants. I'm well aware though, that there was a time when there were neither Roman Catholics, nor Lutherans, Calvinists, Methodists … but just Christians.
So I reckon Jesus is non-denominational and could not care less about our respective man-made doctrines on the Eucharist as long as we celebrate it in His Spirit.

 

[Sola Fide]

When the pope speaks of joining “Lutherans” at the Eucharist it is really a one way street. Many of the 227 Lutheran denominations in the USA alone (yes, there are that many, each with doctrines differing by varying degrees) would allow the pope the take communion in their church (some no doubt reluctantly). I would certainly give communion to the pope should he wander into my church. But the pope will not allow any Protestant to take communion from him. Protestants remain excommunicated from the Roman church. So, as I said, it’s a one way street and the ball is entirely in the pope’s court. Most of Luther’s criticism of the Roman church was entirely justified and many of his complaints have been resolved in Luther’s favor over the years. Last point: the “Lutheran World Federation” in no wise speaks for all Lutherans; many Lutheran churches shun it as far too liberal. So even if that body enters into some compact with the pope it would be irrelevant to many “Lutherans.”

 

[EndTimeWine]

I’ve never been Catholic, Stranger, but come from a long line of staunch Prussian Protestants. I'm well aware though, that there was a time when there were neither Roman Catholics, nor Lutherans, Calvinists, Methodists … but just Christians.
So I reckon Jesus is non-denominational and could not care less about our respective man-made doctrines on the Eucharist as long as we celebrate it in His Spirit.

As a Christian I can give an AMEN to that! I am nondenominational , simply a Christian of the Body of Christ. I hate the confines of denominations where one needs to accept and put forth men's doctrines as BOND! After personally going through all denominations and having compared their doctrines to the WORD I have to say please! Give me a break. I do not think faith is as complicated as they make it. The Catholics teach fantasy doctrine concerning Mary, the Protestants reject any discussion or acknowledgement of her. They reject veneration of her and the apostles, which is esteem as scripture calls us to do 1Thessalonians5:12-14
Christian Living
12But we ask you, brothers, to acknowledge those who work diligently among you, who preside over you in the Lord and give you instruction. 13In love, hold them in highest regard because of their work. Live in peace with one another. 14And we urge you, brothers, to admonish the unruly, encourage the fainthearted, help the weak, and be patient with everyone.…

ven·er·a·tion
ˌvenəˈrāSH(ə)n/
noun
noun: veneration; plural noun: venerations

1. great respect; reverence.
   "the traditional veneration of saints"

es·teem
əˈstēm/
noun
noun: esteem

1. 1.
   respect and admiration, typically for a person.
   "he was held in high esteem by colleagues"
   synonyms: respect, admiration, acclaim, approbation, appreciation, favor, recognition, honor, reverence; More
   estimation, regard, opinion
   "she was held in high esteem"

verb
verb: esteem; 3rd person present: esteems; past tense: esteemed; past participle: esteemed; gerund or present participle: esteeming
1.
respect and admire.
"many of these qualities are esteemed by managers"
synonyms: respect, admire, value, regard, acclaim, appreciate, like, prize, treasure, favor, revere
"such ceramics are highly esteemed"
IMO, I think the Protestants and Catholics are both messed up, the Calvinist and their doctrine "THE SINS OF MARY" crazy. Catholic's and Protestants with their false doctrines, really only want esteem for themselves, not for those who are above them , THE APOSTLES AND MARY , who preside over us and teach us eternally through the LIVING WORD! Since they are the first to know, they are the prerequisite of our faith. The faith: VERY SIMPLE, MEN-COMPLICATED, authors of confusion! God Bless!

pre·req·ui·site
prēˈrekwəzət/
noun
noun: prerequisite; plural noun: prerequisites; noun: pre-requisite; plural noun: pre-requisites

1. 1.
   a thing that is required as a prior condition for something else to happen or exist.
   "sponsorship is not a prerequisite for any of our courses"
   synonyms: (necessary) condition, precondition, essential, requirement, requisite, necessity, sine qua non;
   informalmust
   "a prerequisite for the course"

adjective
adjective: prerequisite; adjective: pre-requisite
1.
required as a prior condition.
"the student must have the prerequisite skills"
synonyms: necessary, required, called for, essential, requisite, obligatory, compulsory
"the prerequisite qualifications"
antonyms: unnecessary

 

[Sola Fide]

You are correct to say doctrine must be tested against the Word but doctrine does indeed matter. There is a difference between veneration and worship. Mary, the mother of God the Son is most highly favored and blessed among women but to worship her is to worship the creature not the triune Creator. Many non-Catholics object to what looks like worship of Mary as the “Queen of Heaven” by the Roman church. But this is rather far afield from the original topic.

 

[EndTimeWine]

You are correct to say doctrine must be tested against the Word but doctrine does indeed matter. There is a difference between veneration and worship. Mary, the mother of God the Son is most highly favored and blessed among women but to worship her is to worship the creature not the triune Creator. Many non-Catholics object to what looks like worship of Mary as the “Queen of Heaven” by the Roman church. But this is rather far afield from the original topic.

Queen of Heaven, Hmmm!
The Rich Young Man- Matthew
…27“Look,” Peter replied, “we have left everything to follow You. What then will there be for us?” 28Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, in the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on His glorious throne, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 29And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or fields for the sake of My name will receive a hundredfold and will inherit eternal life.…

To the Church in Thyatira-Rev.
…26And to the one who is victorious and continues in My work until the end, I will give authority over the nations. 27He will rule them with an iron scepter and shatter them — like pottery just as I have received authority from My Father. 28And I will give him the morning star.…

Psalms 82:6
God Presides in the Great Assembly
…5They do not know nor do they understand; They walk about in darkness; All the foundations of the earth are shaken. 6I said, "You are gods, And all of you are sons of the Most High. 7"Nevertheless you will die like men And fall like any one of the princes."…
To rule is to have Royal authority in Christ. She is a Queen in heaven, is she of heaven of course. We are all called to a Royal Priesthood in Christ.
In heaven there is a women's court, and since she is Blessed Among women and among women means all women, she presides over them. Since the first to know are the prerequisite of the faith, this has to be so. Look into scripture especially Revelation, many occasions and instances of reward to rule.

Now The rosary a bone of contention between Protestants and Catholics, adding (I do not care for either) but is the rosary scriptural? YES! I have no problem in someone reciting it, if one does not want to, it matters not the the words are in scripture anyway, when you acknowledge what Gabriel the Arch Angel said to Mary and what Elisabeth said:
Luke 1:26-38King James Version (KJV)
26 And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth,

27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.

28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

29 And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be.

30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.

31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus.

32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?

35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

36 And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren.

37 For with God nothing shall be impossible.

38 And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.

Luke 1:39-56King James Version (KJV)
39 And Mary arose in those days, and went into the hill country with haste, into a city of Juda;

40 And entered into the house of Zacharias, and saluted Elisabeth.

41 And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:

42 And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.

43 And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?

44 For, lo, as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in mine ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy.

45 And blessed is she that believed: for there shall be a performance of those things which were told her from the Lord.

46 And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord,

47 And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.

48 For he hath regarded the low estate of his handmaiden: for, behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.

49 For he that is mighty hath done to me great things; and holy is his name.

50 And his mercy is on them that fear him from generation to generation.

51 He hath shewed strength with his arm; he hath scattered the proud in the imagination of their hearts.

52 He hath put down the mighty from their seats, and exalted them of low degree.

53 He hath filled the hungry with good things; and the rich he hath sent empty away.

54 He hath helped his servant Israel, in remembrance of his mercy;

55 As he spake to our fathers, to Abraham, and to his seed for ever.

56 And Mary abode with her about three months, and returned to her own house.

And the mysteries are parts of the life of Mary and Christ and the Apostles= THE FAITH. And Repetition makes no difference to the truth of the Word. Repetition is NOT A SIN! So, I see no need to fight over the Rosary. You may use the same scripture repetitiously as a rebuttal to someone. POINT.... as I said and you agreed, doctrine must be supported by scripture.

 

[EndTimeWine]

Satan Bound
…3And he threw him into the Abyss, shut it, and sealed it over him, so that he could not deceive the nations until the thousand years were complete. After that, he must be released for a brief period of time. 4Then I saw the thrones, and those seated on them had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image, and had not received its mark on their foreheads or hands. And they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years were complete. This is the first resurrection.…

We who overcome sit upon thrones, would this suggest Royalty? And we who are of the first resurrection have authority over the second. Royal Reign!