Pope wants to change the Lord's Prayer

[FHII]

Thought this was interesting.... For the record, I'm against it.

Pope Francis Suggests Changing The Words To The 'Lord's Prayer'

 

[EndTimeWine]

It gets crazier and crazier. Now he's putting himself in place of Christ.

 

[EndTimeWine]

It gets crazier and crazier. Now he's putting himself in place of Christ.

Not that he hasn't been doing this all along. That shovel he has, his mouth just keeps digging him deeper and deeper in a hole!

 

[FHII]

In case someone is living under a rock:

Matthew 6:13 KJV
And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.

James said:
James 1:13 KJV
Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

A quick note on that verse: in context God does not tempt with evil. It also never says He doesn't lead people into temptation. Perhaps you may think I am splitting hairs, but consider these two verses:

Matthew 4:1 KJV
Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.

Genesis 22:1 KJV
And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham: and he said, Behold, here I am .

So the spirit led Jesus to be tempted and God did tempt Abraham.

 

[aspen]

We are all called to be vicars of Christ. I like the Lord’s Prayer as it is, without the Protestant ending tacted on. I can see the Pope’s pov, but it really doesnt motivate me to make a change.

 

[FHII]

We are all called to be vicars of Christ. I like the Lord’s Prayer as it is, without the Protestant ending tacted on. I can see the Pope’s pov, but it really doesnt motivate me to make a change.

Whats the protestant ending that was tacted on?

 

[aspen]

For thine is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever

When Reformers set out to translate the King James Bible, they assumed that a Greek manuscript they possessed was ancient and therefore adopted the phrase "For thine is the kingdom, the power, and the glory forever" into the Lord's Prayer.

 

[FHII]

For thine is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever

When Reformers set out to translate the King James Bible, they assumed that a Greek manuscript they possessed was ancient and therefore adopted the phrase "For thine is the kingdom, the power, and the glory forever" into the Lord's Prayer.

Yea... Just read an article on it. It really doesn't seem as a protestant edition according to the article I read. Its not the point of the thread... But thats ok by me....

Is the Doxology of the Lord's Prayer in Matthew 6:13 a late addition? - King James Version Today

 

[Dcopymope]

We are all called to be vicars of Christ. I like the Lord’s Prayer as it is, without the Protestant ending tacted on. I can see the Pope’s pov, but it really doesnt motivate me to make a change.

Where is the scripture that states we are called to be "vicars of Christ"? The term means "in place of", and as far as I can tell, the only thing that replaced Jesus on earth is the Holy Spirit, not you or anyone else.

(John 14:15-26) "¶ If ye love me, keep my commandments. {16} And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; {17} Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. {18} I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. {19} Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. {20} At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. {21} He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. {22} Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world? {23} Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. {24} He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father’s which sent me. {25} These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. {26} But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you."

(John 16:7-13) "Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. {8} And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: {9} Of sin, because they believe not on me; {10} Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; {11} Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged. {12} I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. {13} Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come."

It is quite clear here that the holy spirit is the only real "vicar of Christ". I would be spewing blasphemy if I claimed to be taking the place of Christ on earth.

 

[Richard_oti]

... as in "representative" or "representative of"

 

[mjrhealth]

Thought this was interesting.... For the record, I'm against it.

Pope Francis Suggests Changing The Words To The 'Lord's Prayer'

It was changed one before years ago. I remember as a kid in church saying it, than teh words where not how i remembered it, so its not the first time.

 

[aspen]

Yea... Just read an article on it. It really doesn't seem as a protestant edition according to the article I read. Its not the point of the thread... But thats ok by me....

Is the Doxology of the Lord's Prayer in Matthew 6:13 a late addition? - King James Version Today

Interesting link

 

[Dcopymope]

... as in "representative" or "representative of"

Here is the deal, the only time anybody can claim to represent Jesus is due to the holy spirit, who is the true representative of Jesus on earth. Maybe this is why we have so many different denominations that are all at each others throats for one reason or another, its because they all believe themselves to be God's vicar, not putting the holy spirit first.

 

[Richard_oti]

Here is the deal, the only time anybody can claim to represent Jesus is due to the holy spirit, who is the true representative of Jesus on earth. Maybe this is why we have so many different denominations that are all at each others throats for one reason or another, its because they all believe themselves to be God's vicar, not putting the holy spirit first.

Exactly.

But even so, to both believers and unbelievers, how we present ourselves, is how we represent Jesus to them. I understand your position and am not opposed to it. I just happen to also understand @aspen 's POV.

 

[aspen]

... as in "representative" or "representative of"

Wikipedia has some good information on ‘vicar of Christ’.

For me, the Office of Pope is complicated. In theory, i get it. In practice, Popes fall prey to worldly influences, as we all do.

 

[aspen]

Here is the deal, the only time anybody can claim to represent Jesus is due to the holy spirit, who is the true representative of Jesus on earth. Maybe this is why we have so many different denominations that are all at each others throats for one reason or another, its because they all believe themselves to be God's vicar, not putting the holy spirit first.

So why is it easier for some people to speak about ministers being called to the ministry or following their calling, but when it comes to the Vatican, the same people act as if cardinals and the Pope have nothing to do with God?

 

[Dcopymope]

Exactly.

But even so, to both believers and unbelievers, how we present ourselves, is how we represent Jesus to them. I understand your position and am not opposed to it. I just happen to also understand @aspen 's POV.

Yeah ok, but the problem I often see is people making it all about themselves, and all about their church and how they themselves are "doing Gods work", and never about the holy spirit that supposed to be working within them and their church. They believe themselves to be led by the spirit......while spewing the most outrageous, blasphemous rubbish I have ever had the misfortune to come across, for heavens sake.

 

[Dcopymope]

So why is it easier for some people to speak about ministers being called to the ministry or following their calling, but when it comes to the Vatican, the same people act as if cardinals and the Pope have nothing to do with God?

Simple, because the catholic church is an easy target with its traditions and doctrines that are as un-biblical as one can possibly get.

 

[Richard_oti]

Wikipedia has some good information on ‘vicar of Christ’.

For me, the Office of Pope is complicated. In theory, i get it. In practice, Popes fall prey to worldly influences, as we all do.

It's above my pay grade. And, to be in the spotlight so to speak, where one's every word and action is scrutinized and judged, no thanks. I ain't even Catholic. But I am against anti-catholics. For they are in essence not much different and certainly no better IMO.

EDIT: I worded that wrong LOL. Protestants are in essence not much different and certainly no better. Anti-catholics, are well ... Let's just say, they have some maturing to do.


Personally, having read the article, I don't see it as such a big deal.

Tempt ; Test ; Prove : similar but different.

 

[Richard_oti]

Yeah ok, but the problem I often see is people making it all about themselves, and all about their church and how they themselves are "doing Gods work", and never about the holy spirit that supposed to be working within them and their church. They believe themselves to be led by the spirit......while spewing the most outrageous, blasphemous rubbish I have ever had the misfortune to come across, for heavens sake.

I can't argue with that. You pretty much hit the nail on the head.