I'm reminded of a certain show from the Rifleman series. Some cattle rustlers stole one of Luke McCain's calves from his ranch. Well, to avoid a conflict and to prove that these rustlers had indeed taken a calve from one of McCain's cows...without just going on the rustler's property and taking it, McCain brought the cow (the calve's mother) to the rustler's ranch. What happened was that among the many calves a certain calve came out and began to follow the mother cow. Proving that this was indeed one of McCain's cattle.You see, it was INHERANT within the calve to know it's mother. Even so is it with God's predestinated children, but of course on a much higher level. It is inherant in them to KNOW God's voice and leading, and the drawing of His Spirit...when He comes seeking and saving His own.That predestinated "seed of God" in them...responds to God's call. "Deep calleth unto deep".It's like the farmer who had an eagle egg somehow put in with the chickens. By and by the eagle hatched out. As time went by the eagle realized he was different. He didn't like what the chickens ate, and didn't play cards like all the denominational chickens...oops! sorry. He didn't peck around in the dirty ole barn yard for scraps.One day the mother eagle flew over-head and screached out!...knowing one of her brood were missing. Well, at that wonderful sound the baby eagle looked up "from whence he came" and lifted off to join those of his own kind. Praise God.Chickens can cackle their way into Christians circles, but God has "eagles" He is restoring to His true fold. They alone are predestinated, called and chosen of God.
Predestination...barn-yard simple!
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Lets say theres this guy who is a drunkard. Hes read the Word and knows drunkards will not enter the kingdom. Trys to quit over and over again. Then someone tells him only the predestined will enter the kingdom. Which in part is true. There are those who are predestined but there will be others who are not. He is not told this and quits trying to quit thinking no matter what he does he has no chance to the kingdom. Predestination for everyone who enters the kingdom is not a good thing to preach nor is it biblical. There will be a few covenantal chickens.
So does all this Predestination talk mean we have no choice in the matter? We either are or aren't? We either will or won't?And if that's the case, what's the point of making any decision - any choice?
This is a false doctrine posted by 3rdday its not exactly biblical its the doctrine of a Religion called Preterist. I posted a warning about this in chatbox. However as far as predestination is concerned there are most certainly the predestined of God. These are those that have a destiny a Job to do that Christ has chosen them for. A good example might be Paul if one remembers it was Paul who persecuted Christians, Of his own free will he did this until God called him for the purpose he had been predestined to fulfill Paul didn't know he was predestined until God called him.None of us know who is predestined until God calls upon us to do his biddingSo people claiming they know they are of the Predestined should give you reason to be leery of these claims.The death of Christ on the cross opened salvation to all that accept it we have free will to accept and/or deny the salvation that is offered to us. To all who accept this you have the promise of Salvation promised you by God.Now it can be argued that God foreknows who will and will not be saved that may or may not be the case an all knowing God may well know but we have the opposing force of free Will that God endowed us with ...how these opposing forces work together are the things of God that we do not know nor have need of knowing. We only need know Our father has promised us if we believe upon him and repent of our sins he will not leave us nor forsake us.
(Christina;61999)
This is a false doctrine posted by 3rdday its not exactly biblical its the doctrine of a Religion called Preterist.
Predestination and Preterism are separate doctrines.
This is a false doctrine posted by 3rdday its not exactly biblical its the doctrine of a Religion called Preterist.
Predestination and Preterism are separate doctrines.
(Follower;62007)
(Christina;61999)
This is a false doctrine posted by 3rdday its not exactly biblical its the doctrine of a Religion called Preterist....
Predestination and Preterism are separate doctrines.Doesn't change the fact the Preterist is a false doctrine from men.
(Christina;61999)
This is a false doctrine posted by 3rdday its not exactly biblical its the doctrine of a Religion called Preterist....
Predestination and Preterism are separate doctrines.Doesn't change the fact the Preterist is a false doctrine from men.
well that not true Follower Predestination is a biblical concept.. However a preverted form of the concept exists in the Preterist view.So they are not seprate doctrines a form of Predestination is a doctrine within Preterism.
There are two main problems with the doctrine of Predestination.One, nobody is in complete agreement as to its exact definition.Two, nobody is in complete agreement in regards to the degree to which you take it.As re: Preterism... If we study history, we can see the fulfillment of about 95% of Biblical prophecies within the first century AD. It should not be discounted, labeled a false doctrine, and cast off simply because we don't agree with it.
(ffbruce;62027)
There are two main problems with the doctrine of Predestination.One, nobody is in complete agreement as to its exact definition.Two, nobody is in complete agreement in regards to the degree to which you take it.
It's funny, many of the people who are most vocally anti-predestination are also militantly pro-predestination - just as long as the predestination is by way of Jewish descendancy.
As re: Preterism... If we study history, we can see the fulfillment of about 95% of Biblical prophecies within the first century AD. It should not be discounted, labeled a false doctrine, and cast off simply because we don't agree with it.
That's right. People who reject preterism spent a lot of time talking about dual fulfillment, if they know much about history. Futurism is most popular among people who know the least about history.
There are two main problems with the doctrine of Predestination.One, nobody is in complete agreement as to its exact definition.Two, nobody is in complete agreement in regards to the degree to which you take it.
It's funny, many of the people who are most vocally anti-predestination are also militantly pro-predestination - just as long as the predestination is by way of Jewish descendancy.
As re: Preterism... If we study history, we can see the fulfillment of about 95% of Biblical prophecies within the first century AD. It should not be discounted, labeled a false doctrine, and cast off simply because we don't agree with it.
That's right. People who reject preterism spent a lot of time talking about dual fulfillment, if they know much about history. Futurism is most popular among people who know the least about history.
(Follower;62030)
It's funny, many of the people who are most vocally anti-predestination are also militantly pro-predestination - just as long as the predestination is by way of Jewish descendancy.That's right. People who reject preterism spent a lot of time talking about dual fulfillment, if they know much about history. Futurism is most popular among people who know the least about history.
You're right - on both counts. None of us are immune from the "pick-and-choose-to-fit-my-desires" tendency with both doctrine and eschatology.
It's funny, many of the people who are most vocally anti-predestination are also militantly pro-predestination - just as long as the predestination is by way of Jewish descendancy.That's right. People who reject preterism spent a lot of time talking about dual fulfillment, if they know much about history. Futurism is most popular among people who know the least about history.
You're right - on both counts. None of us are immune from the "pick-and-choose-to-fit-my-desires" tendency with both doctrine and eschatology.
Your both entitled to opinion but thats all it is an opinion its not Biblical I ask you did Paul know he was predestined to become a great disciple of Christ when he was persucuting Christians??? Did the Aspostels know before hand they would be calledto become fishermen of Men ??And the Idea everything was done by 70 AD is just plain not Biblical its a mans opinion not Gods Word.And the idea of Predestination makes a mockery of God so if everybody is already predestined to Heaven and Hell why give us free will why even make us flesh, why not just kill the souls that would fail Hard core Predestination says babies born that are not predestined are of Satans seedSo you think thats Gods doctrine Where does he say it makes no differnce what you do I already picked who I am gonna save and who Im not Why are we here then, just because God was bored.
(Christina;62036)
Your both entitled to opinion but thats all it is an opinion its not Biblical I ask you did Paul know he was predestined to become a great disciple of Christ when he was persucuting Christians??? Did the Aspostels know before hand they would be calledto become fishermen of Men ??And the Idea everything was done by 70 AD is just plain not Biblical its a m,ans opinion not Gods Word.And the idea of Predestination makes a mockery of God so if everybody is already predestined to Heaven and Hell why give us free will why even make us flesh, why not just kill the souls that would fail Hard core Predestination says babies born that are not predestined are of Satans seedSo you think thats Gods doctrineWhere does he say it makes no differnce what you do I already picked who I am gonna save and who Im not Why are we here then, just because God was bored.
That's true. I like to make a simple post and some non-biblical statement as to why it is a false doctrine.I was born AFTER 70 AD, accept Christ AFTER 70 AD. Now to say everything is finish AROUND OR AT the year 70 AD is offending...because it puts people down.
Your both entitled to opinion but thats all it is an opinion its not Biblical I ask you did Paul know he was predestined to become a great disciple of Christ when he was persucuting Christians??? Did the Aspostels know before hand they would be calledto become fishermen of Men ??And the Idea everything was done by 70 AD is just plain not Biblical its a m,ans opinion not Gods Word.And the idea of Predestination makes a mockery of God so if everybody is already predestined to Heaven and Hell why give us free will why even make us flesh, why not just kill the souls that would fail Hard core Predestination says babies born that are not predestined are of Satans seedSo you think thats Gods doctrineWhere does he say it makes no differnce what you do I already picked who I am gonna save and who Im not Why are we here then, just because God was bored.
That's true. I like to make a simple post and some non-biblical statement as to why it is a false doctrine.I was born AFTER 70 AD, accept Christ AFTER 70 AD. Now to say everything is finish AROUND OR AT the year 70 AD is offending...because it puts people down.
tim_from_pa
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Let me say for the umpteenth time that the bible does make a case for predestination.The bible also makes a case for free choice.They both coexist.Now I know that the originator of this thread was rightly banned, but I could just see him arguing my second point and those for free choice arguing my first point by saying, "but.......Yeah, "but" don't try to figure it out. That's man's pompous limited reasoning that tries to side with one or the other only.In this case, I am saying that there are circumstances where the colors red and blue are the same, and don't try to fight it. That's just the way it is because that's what God said.And that's my stance on this subject. Case closed.
(tim_from_pa;62043)
Let me say for the umpteenth time that the bible does make a case for predestination. The bible also makes a case for free choice. They both coexist. Now I know that the originator of this thread was rightly banned,
Yes it does. I believe the predestined are of the 12 tribes. If youre not of them or their remnant your on your own so to speak. But..the new testament makes the point of telling us who are of the jews and who are not. And im sure there are some here that are of the remnant of the 12 tribes and do not know that.Why was the guy who wrote this thread banned? I hope it wasnt cause his beliefs differ from the beliefs of the mod squad. I came here to discuss the Word and im pretty sure we wont agree on many things. Should i look elsewhere for discussion?
Let me say for the umpteenth time that the bible does make a case for predestination. The bible also makes a case for free choice. They both coexist. Now I know that the originator of this thread was rightly banned,
Yes it does. I believe the predestined are of the 12 tribes. If youre not of them or their remnant your on your own so to speak. But..the new testament makes the point of telling us who are of the jews and who are not. And im sure there are some here that are of the remnant of the 12 tribes and do not know that.Why was the guy who wrote this thread banned? I hope it wasnt cause his beliefs differ from the beliefs of the mod squad. I came here to discuss the Word and im pretty sure we wont agree on many things. Should i look elsewhere for discussion?
(iWrecknSow;62050)
(tim_from_pa;62043)
Let me say for the umpteenth time that the bible does make a case for predestination.The bible also makes a case for free choice.They both coexist.Now I know that the originator of this thread was rightly banned,...
Yes it does. I believe the predestined are of the 12 tribes. If youre not of them or their remnant your on your own so to speak. But..the new testament makes the point of telling us who are of the jews and who are not. And im sure there are some here that are of the remnant of the 12 tribes and do not know that.Why was the guy who wrote this thread banned? I hope it wasnt cause his beliefs differ from the beliefs of the mod squad. I came here to discuss the Word and im pretty sure we wont agree on many things. Should i look elsewhere for discussion?Anyway, let's hope we are not confusing the Jews of Judah and the Jews that do lie. (Kenites)
(tim_from_pa;62043)
Let me say for the umpteenth time that the bible does make a case for predestination.The bible also makes a case for free choice.They both coexist.Now I know that the originator of this thread was rightly banned,...
Yes it does. I believe the predestined are of the 12 tribes. If youre not of them or their remnant your on your own so to speak. But..the new testament makes the point of telling us who are of the jews and who are not. And im sure there are some here that are of the remnant of the 12 tribes and do not know that.Why was the guy who wrote this thread banned? I hope it wasnt cause his beliefs differ from the beliefs of the mod squad. I came here to discuss the Word and im pretty sure we wont agree on many things. Should i look elsewhere for discussion?Anyway, let's hope we are not confusing the Jews of Judah and the Jews that do lie. (Kenites)
tomwebster
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(iWrecknSow;62050)
Yes it does. I believe the predestined are of the 12 tribes. If youre not of them or their remnant your on your own so to speak. But..the new testament makes the point of telling us who are of the jews and who are not. And im sure there are some here that are of the remnant of the 12 tribes and do not know that.Why was the guy who wrote this thread banned? I hope it wasnt cause his beliefs differ from the beliefs of the mod squad. I came here to discuss the Word and im pretty sure we wont agree on many things. Should i look elsewhere for discussion?
He was banned because he was teaching a false doctrine. And there are a large number of us here that are of the "lost" (God knows where they are) Tribes, even if they all don't know it.
Yes it does. I believe the predestined are of the 12 tribes. If youre not of them or their remnant your on your own so to speak. But..the new testament makes the point of telling us who are of the jews and who are not. And im sure there are some here that are of the remnant of the 12 tribes and do not know that.Why was the guy who wrote this thread banned? I hope it wasnt cause his beliefs differ from the beliefs of the mod squad. I came here to discuss the Word and im pretty sure we wont agree on many things. Should i look elsewhere for discussion?
He was banned because he was teaching a false doctrine. And there are a large number of us here that are of the "lost" (God knows where they are) Tribes, even if they all don't know it.
tim_from_pa
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(iWrecknSow;62050)
Yes it does. I believe the predestined are of the 12 tribes. If youre not of them or their remnant your on your own so to speak. But..the new testament makes the point of telling us who are of the jews and who are not. And im sure there are some here that are of the remnant of the 12 tribes and do not know that.Why was the guy who wrote this thread banned? I hope it wasnt cause his beliefs differ from the beliefs of the mod squad. I came here to discuss the Word and im pretty sure we wont agree on many things. Should i look elsewhere for discussion?
The 12 tribes are elect of race, specifically the tribe of Joseph. The Christian is the elect of grace. One can be from the elect of race and not elected of grace. In other words they can get all the promises of Abraham regarding the earthly blessings and still be lost. The elect of grace may be both, it all depends.I am from the tribe of Joseph. But I am also in Christ which makes me both.I am not at liberty to say in detail what ultimately got him banned, as that is up to the moderators. However, one rule is not not proselytize. Some people are pompous and shoot off just to cause trouble be they sincere or not, and that is trolling behavior.If you have a belief, we can hear it out here, but pushing it is another story. I just came from another thread where one was calling another person a demon because like a spoiled brat, they stomp their feet when people can't see things their (usually erroneous) ways. If after presenting your belief you do not feel comfortable, then you are free to go elsewhere as opposed to causing trouble.
Yes it does. I believe the predestined are of the 12 tribes. If youre not of them or their remnant your on your own so to speak. But..the new testament makes the point of telling us who are of the jews and who are not. And im sure there are some here that are of the remnant of the 12 tribes and do not know that.Why was the guy who wrote this thread banned? I hope it wasnt cause his beliefs differ from the beliefs of the mod squad. I came here to discuss the Word and im pretty sure we wont agree on many things. Should i look elsewhere for discussion?
The 12 tribes are elect of race, specifically the tribe of Joseph. The Christian is the elect of grace. One can be from the elect of race and not elected of grace. In other words they can get all the promises of Abraham regarding the earthly blessings and still be lost. The elect of grace may be both, it all depends.I am from the tribe of Joseph. But I am also in Christ which makes me both.I am not at liberty to say in detail what ultimately got him banned, as that is up to the moderators. However, one rule is not not proselytize. Some people are pompous and shoot off just to cause trouble be they sincere or not, and that is trolling behavior.If you have a belief, we can hear it out here, but pushing it is another story. I just came from another thread where one was calling another person a demon because like a spoiled brat, they stomp their feet when people can't see things their (usually erroneous) ways. If after presenting your belief you do not feel comfortable, then you are free to go elsewhere as opposed to causing trouble.
To attempt to pull this altogether Predestination, Free will, the Elect and the 12 tribes, (true church) Past, futureAll these things as well as other(sub parts) work together on many levels to accomplish Gods plan they are all working parts, cogs in the wheel Sometimes they oppose each other, sometimes they work in unison. when one tries to claim one cog (part is) is the one and only part(driving force) and only works alone its throws everything out of context.It doesnt mean a certain part/cog (belief/doctrine) doesnt exist you just have to understand where how it plays into the whole
tim_from_pa
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(Christina;62057)
To attempt to pull this altogether Predestination, Free will, the Elect and the 12 tribes, (true church) Past, futureAll these things as well as other(sub parts) work together on many levels to accomplish Gods plan they are all working parts, cogs in the wheel Sometimes they oppose each other, sometimes they work in unison. when one tries to claim one cog (part is) is the one and only part(driving force) and only works alone its throws everything out of context.It doesnt mean a certain part/cog (belief/doctrine) doesnt exist you just have to understand where how it plays into the whole
Excellent point, Christina. I especially like the last sentence you stated. So many people get hung up on one point, and what they say is true so-to-speak, but as I always say, they do not see the other side of the coin and see everything as a whole.Oftentimes when I am butting heads with someone, I noticed its not that I disagree with them, per se, but I see an additional facet that they don't see that I am trying to show them. Their belief is a subset of mine. So I agree with them, but they don't agree with me in their own little myopic world and ironically say that I don't agree with them!
To attempt to pull this altogether Predestination, Free will, the Elect and the 12 tribes, (true church) Past, futureAll these things as well as other(sub parts) work together on many levels to accomplish Gods plan they are all working parts, cogs in the wheel Sometimes they oppose each other, sometimes they work in unison. when one tries to claim one cog (part is) is the one and only part(driving force) and only works alone its throws everything out of context.It doesnt mean a certain part/cog (belief/doctrine) doesnt exist you just have to understand where how it plays into the whole
Excellent point, Christina. I especially like the last sentence you stated. So many people get hung up on one point, and what they say is true so-to-speak, but as I always say, they do not see the other side of the coin and see everything as a whole.Oftentimes when I am butting heads with someone, I noticed its not that I disagree with them, per se, but I see an additional facet that they don't see that I am trying to show them. Their belief is a subset of mine. So I agree with them, but they don't agree with me in their own little myopic world and ironically say that I don't agree with them!
And the idea of Predestination makes a mockery of God so if everybody is already predestined to Heaven and Hell why give us free will...
But He did not give us free will Christina. In fact, God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden. Rom 9:18.It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy. Rom 9:16.Hello ffbruce.
So does all this Predestination talk mean we have no choice in the matter? We either are or aren't? We either will or won't?
That's right. Before God created the universe the choice of who would be blessed and who would go to hell was made. Eph 1:4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5 he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will--
And if that's the case, what's the point of making any decision - any choice?
What's choice got to do with it? JN 6:29 Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent." Belief in Christ is the only requirement of God. If you believe in Christ then you are chosen and if you don't you are not.
Where does he say it makes no differnce what you do I already picked who I am gonna save and who Im not Why are we here then, just because God was bored. (Christina)
Hello Christina.Why we are here is simple, to glorify God and enjoy Him forever.Since God creates a new nature in us, the chosen, then we will start to exhibit that nature, as the sinners, the unregenerate, live according to their natures. the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so. Rom 8:7.I'll leave it here, I see that tom bans people.I am a Calvinist, a double predestinationist tom.john.
But He did not give us free will Christina. In fact, God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden. Rom 9:18.It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy. Rom 9:16.Hello ffbruce.
So does all this Predestination talk mean we have no choice in the matter? We either are or aren't? We either will or won't?
That's right. Before God created the universe the choice of who would be blessed and who would go to hell was made. Eph 1:4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5 he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will--
And if that's the case, what's the point of making any decision - any choice?
What's choice got to do with it? JN 6:29 Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent." Belief in Christ is the only requirement of God. If you believe in Christ then you are chosen and if you don't you are not.
Where does he say it makes no differnce what you do I already picked who I am gonna save and who Im not Why are we here then, just because God was bored. (Christina)
Hello Christina.Why we are here is simple, to glorify God and enjoy Him forever.Since God creates a new nature in us, the chosen, then we will start to exhibit that nature, as the sinners, the unregenerate, live according to their natures. the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so. Rom 8:7.I'll leave it here, I see that tom bans people.I am a Calvinist, a double predestinationist tom.john.
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