Predestination, Free Will and YHWH

[BillTaylor]

There is a rule in Hermeneutics that cannot, ever, be bypassed. It is; No scripture, collection of scripture nor passage of scripture can ever be fully understood without the light of all scripture shinning on it.



FYI: The Bible is the book or scrolls Yashuah ha’Mashima, Paul, and the other disciples taught from or the first 39 books of the Christian Bible. The following 27 books, misnamed the New Testament, are rightfully included in the Christian Version of the Bible because they, like the previous 39 are God spoken/authored and they are the only known God authored Life Application Commentaries of the Bible Jesus taught from, the Original 27 books chhristians split into 39.



Now the problem with people’s outlook on Predestination. You have not considered all of scripture to have reached this old, old, Baptist position that is so in error but is widely held. I am a Southern Baptist that, because of the late stage of my MS can never take the pulpit again but we must never forget that rule of Hermeneutics. And since Jesus has authored/inspired every word of the Christian Bible, we must also, in our study of the Hermeneutics of the scriptures remember that the Bible we hold in our hands is in all essence from, "In the beginning..." through the very last word of Revelation 22 is of one context and with a single message, Salvation.



With all of that said, Predestination; To understand the predestination spoken of in the Word of God we must go back to before what we know as the beginning, beyond the Creation of the world, the animals and of the creation of man. God created every bit of the Universe we live in. (Genesis 1-3 and John 1:1-5) God also created this Space/Time Continuum we live in! This places God outside of that Continuum in the very Beginning.



There are two attributes of God taught in the scriptures that are essential for understanding; 1. God is Omnipotent and 2. God is Omniscient. The first means there is nothing God cannot do if it is His will to do it and the second means God is present no matter where we go!



In dealing with this it can be hard to wrap the head around but before God created this Time/Space Continuum, He was only found outside of it giving Time no bearing on Him. As such God could write the Book of Life, Predestination, because, though He is here, He is also, right now, in the past and He is also, right this second, in the future and has always been.



It makes the head want to scream, "NO!" But if we remember Those two key elements of God's Character, His Being, it can be no other way because the Perfect Will of God is that none should perish but should come to repentance and to live forever, in Fellowship with Him. (2Pet 3:9)

 

[Episkopos]

There is a rule in Hermeneutics that cannot, ever, be bypassed. It is; No scripture, collection of scripture nor passage of scripture can ever be fully understood without the light of all scripture shinning on it.



FYI: The Bible is the book or scrolls Yashuah ha’Mashima, Paul, and the other disciples taught from or the first 39 books of the Christian Bible. The following 27 books, misnamed the New Testament, are rightfully included in the Christian Version of the Bible because they, like the previous 39 are God spoken/authored and they are the only known God authored Life Application Commentaries of the Bible Jesus taught from, the Original 27 books chhristians split into 39.



Now the problem with people’s outlook on Predestination. You have not considered all of scripture to have reached this old, old, Baptist position that is so in error but is widely held. I am a Southern Baptist that, because of the late stage of my MS can never take the pulpit again but we must never forget that rule of Hermeneutics. And since Jesus has authored/inspired every word of the Christian Bible, we must also, in our study of the Hermeneutics of the scriptures remember that the Bible we hold in our hands is in all essence from, "In the beginning..." through the very last word of Revelation 22 is of one context and with a single message, Salvation.



With all of that said, Predestination; To understand the predestination spoken of in the Word of God we must go back to before what we know as the beginning, beyond the Creation of the world, the animals and of the creation of man. God created every bit of the Universe we live in. (Genesis 1-3 and John 1:1-5) God also created this Space/Time Continuum we live in! This places God outside of that Continuum in the very Beginning.



There are two attributes of God taught in the scriptures that are essential for understanding; 1. God is Omnipotent and 2. God is Omniscient. The first means there is nothing God cannot do if it is His will to do it and the second means God is present no matter where we go!



In dealing with this it can be hard to wrap the head around but before God created this Time/Space Continuum, He was only found outside of it giving Time no bearing on Him. As such God could write the Book of Life, Predestination, because, though He is here, He is also, right now, in the past and He is also, right this second, in the future and has always been.



It makes the head want to scream, "NO!" But if we remember Those two key elements of God's Character, His Being, it can be no other way because the Perfect Will of God is that none should perish but should come to repentance and to live forever, in Fellowship with Him. (2Pet 3:9)

Amen to the whole counsel of God. Welcome here! :)

 

[Willie T]

Hey, Will! Long time, no see.

 

[Nancy]

There is a rule in Hermeneutics that cannot, ever, be bypassed. It is; No scripture, collection of scripture nor passage of scripture can ever be fully understood without the light of all scripture shinning on it.



FYI: The Bible is the book or scrolls Yashuah ha’Mashima, Paul, and the other disciples taught from or the first 39 books of the Christian Bible. The following 27 books, misnamed the New Testament, are rightfully included in the Christian Version of the Bible because they, like the previous 39 are God spoken/authored and they are the only known God authored Life Application Commentaries of the Bible Jesus taught from, the Original 27 books chhristians split into 39.



Now the problem with people’s outlook on Predestination. You have not considered all of scripture to have reached this old, old, Baptist position that is so in error but is widely held. I am a Southern Baptist that, because of the late stage of my MS can never take the pulpit again but we must never forget that rule of Hermeneutics. And since Jesus has authored/inspired every word of the Christian Bible, we must also, in our study of the Hermeneutics of the scriptures remember that the Bible we hold in our hands is in all essence from, "In the beginning..." through the very last word of Revelation 22 is of one context and with a single message, Salvation.



With all of that said, Predestination; To understand the predestination spoken of in the Word of God we must go back to before what we know as the beginning, beyond the Creation of the world, the animals and of the creation of man. God created every bit of the Universe we live in. (Genesis 1-3 and John 1:1-5) God also created this Space/Time Continuum we live in! This places God outside of that Continuum in the very Beginning.



There are two attributes of God taught in the scriptures that are essential for understanding; 1. God is Omnipotent and 2. God is Omniscient. The first means there is nothing God cannot do if it is His will to do it and the second means God is present no matter where we go!



In dealing with this it can be hard to wrap the head around but before God created this Time/Space Continuum, He was only found outside of it giving Time no bearing on Him. As such God could write the Book of Life, Predestination, because, though He is here, He is also, right now, in the past and He is also, right this second, in the future and has always been.



It makes the head want to scream, "NO!" But if we remember Those two key elements of God's Character, His Being, it can be no other way because the Perfect Will of God is that none should perish but should come to repentance and to live forever, in Fellowship with Him. (2Pet 3:9)

Welcome Bill!
Loved the post. Who can know Him?? BTW "There are two attributes of God taught in the scriptures that are essential for understanding; 1. God is Omnipotent and 2. God is Omniscient. The first means there is nothing God cannot do if it is His will to do it and the second means God is present no matter where we go!"
I'm thinking you meant to say "Omnipresent" rather than Omniscient (all knowing)?
In His Name,
nancy

 

[Enoch111]

...the Perfect Will of God is that none should perish but should come to repentance and to live forever, in Fellowship with Him. (2Pet 3:9)

Welcome Bill, and thanks for that introductory post. What you have pointed out above thoroughly refutes the false idea of Unconditional Election (that God predestines some for salvation and others for damnation).

 

[BillTaylor]

Thank you. I, unsuccessfully, seek not to offends and point out the same thing with pointing out that there is no error wiuth Scripture and try to point out that as a Biblicist I find neither of the major opinions, though supportable with the, erroneous extraction from their context, are supported with incomplete thoughts.

As I have written, often, on quite a few forums since '95, I hold neither of the major positions, do, please take note of the next word, complete justice to Yashuah ha'Mashiah nor the Gospel of the Scriptures. However, they both, for this Layman Teacher, like my belief, fall within the pale of orthodoxy and cause no major concern about Salvation.



I am a Biblicist and Biblicists believe there is Free Will as well as Predestination. The Bible teaches both as fact and YHWH does not mislead His Children. The issue is the lack of seeking answers from Yashuah and His Father, YHWH through Ruah, the Holy Spirit.



I feel the first fact that needs grasping is there is a division in time between the recording the Jewish Bible, now, incorrectly, known as the Old Testament and the Final Renewing of the covenant between YHWH and Mankind, misnamed as The New Testament.



The Abrahamic Covenant was not dismissed when YHWH renewed, expanded, if you will, but rather it was Renewed and in doing so YHWH expanded, in a specific manor, the requirements through the 613 directions on living a Holy Life before YHWH.



Likewise, many Heretical False Teachers instruct that this "New Covenant" superseded the old one, never even understanding YHWH had a Covenant between Adam and Himself that was renewed with Abraham and later, renewed/expanded with Noah.



If you have issue with seeing this renewing of the Single Covenant between YHWH and man, established and governed by YHWH, please, try not to attempt dragging me into a vain debate without you going to a Bible Source and purchasing the version of your choice with an excellent Chain Reference. I prefer the Thompson Chain Reference but there are other good works to study with.



Using the good chain reference trace any New Testament Verse Reference and after tracing a few of them to their origin a body learns that without the Bible Yashuah taught Christianity from this Renewed (New) Covenant (Testament) has no legs for foundation to stand on. The Holy Ẅörd of our Elohim is of a single major context folding many Life Lessons (Minor Contexts) within itself.



Now, about the major distraction within the Body of Yashuah. Both major positions are taught... which is dominant? Both are taught and stand hand in hand, side by side, each aiding the other.



The Time/Space Continuum we live within was created by YHWH through Yashuah. (Please read through the Bible, all of it, paying particular attention to Genesis, chapter, 1 & 2 and John 1:1-5)



Our Elohim, from outside our Time/Space Continuum created said continuum for us to exist and and serve Him within. In 2Pet 3:8 and other addresses in Scripture we learn Time is meaningless and form the past 29 years of study I have been taught by Ruah that Our Elohim is without limit or confinement. This has led me to understand that YHWH, our Elohim, was and is in the Past, the Present and the Future before He created anything of or for us.



I.e. Before I walked, heart broken by YHWH, off the stage, to go serve Him, somewhere around six thousand years ago, He knew I would exercise my free will and would choose to leave the Popular Life and choose Him to serve over all the fine tasting drinks, beautiful women and all of the benefits, highs and adornments that go with being worshiped and adored. He knew and recorded my name in the Book of Life before I was born or even considered the pleasure available with and from 18 year old ladies just learning the wicked ways of living in and through the houses of Satan.



YHWH has two wills described in the Holy Scriptures. The first is YHWH’s Perfect Will and the second is the most visible in this world, His Permissive Will. Because YHWH is not bound to the Present but moves freely outside of and within the constraints of any understood and not understandable contiuum within and without this Space/Time Continuum we exist within at this time.



There is nothing our created minds know or do not know that limit our Elohim.

#AmericaFirst

 

[101G]

Addressing the OP only. I can agree with your assessment. it's like the difference between a destination preset and a LUT. A preset can contain a LUT, but a LUT is not generally referred to as a preset. LUTs can be edited within the destination.

example in scripture. Jeremiah 7:16 "Therefore pray not thou for this people, neither lift up cry nor prayer for them, neither make intercession to me: for I will not hear thee". when I first read this years ago, it was a shocker to me, God didn't want prayer. like here in Jeremiah 11:14, Jeremiah 14:11, and in Exodus 32:10. for the bible clearly states "pray changes things" and here, if the prophet Jeremiah would have prayed, it would have changed or edit God timeline or outcome for his purpose. even the destination is set it can be edited, but still set.

PICJAG.