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Predestination Vs. Free Will

Discussion in 'Christian Debate Forum' started by Dane01, May 18, 2010.

Predistination vs. Free Will

  1. Predestination

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  2. Free Will

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  1. Dane01

    Dane01 New Member

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    Hey everybody

    Age old debate Predestination vs. Free Will. Just want to hear your veiws on the matter.
     
  2. jerryjohnson

    jerryjohnson New Member

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    Sorry but it is not an either/or question. There are free-will and elect, and there are those reserved for judgment.
     
  3. Streetsweeper

    Streetsweeper New Member

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    I don't agree.

    The topic should be "Predestination AND Free Will.
     
  4. jerryjohnson

    jerryjohnson New Member

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    I don't care if you agree or not, my statement stands. You probably don't understand what happened in the 1st Earth Age.
     
  5. 01CobraVortech

    01CobraVortech New Member

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    I say free will and God existing in eternity has seen the beginning from the end.
     
  6. Brother Mike

    Brother Mike New Member

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    Final Destination was a pretty good movie. It's where you avoid a accident, but were really suppose to die, and you still have to die because you have been selected to die...............

    Those that believe in any elect Doctrine outside of the Plan God created you to fill, Probably Got the idea off Hollywood. Final Destination movie proves that.

    Mike.
     
  7. Streetsweeper

    Streetsweeper New Member

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    Hi Mike,

    Knowing you're not part of Calvin's cheer squad I don't understand this comment.

    Acknowledgement of 'the plan God created you to fill' is a doctrine of election.
     
  8. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly New Member

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    Why does it have to be one or the other? How about neither?[​IMG]
     
  9. Brother Mike

    Brother Mike New Member

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    Ah, Streetsweeper.............

    No, I don't side with any Election Doctrine.

    I am talking about the Body of Christ. Each part set as God intended to make up the Body of Christ. If your in Christ, your part of that Body, and each part does a function.

    Each person does have a plan and will of God for their life.

    Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

    Unlike the Election folks that just lay around and BAM get mysteriously born again, or have something just magicaly happen, good or bad. My bible says that "I" have to not be comformed to this World and "I" have to be transformed by the word to find God's Will.

    As I said, everyone has a plan for their life, we are not suppose to lay around, eating potato chips, and watch TV all day until we die of of something and go to Heaven.

    Paul talked about staying his course, and running his race. In Prov 4 we are told about the "Path" of the just..........We do have a course, and a race to run, but My God does not twist our arms and make us run that race......... Unlike Election people think.

    Jesus Is Lord.
     
  10. Dane01

    Dane01 New Member

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    Then what do you think jiggy?

    Hey Jerry can you sometime shoot me an email or something explaing the first earth age and how it ties into this. Thanks
     
  11. Selene

    Selene New Member

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    I chose free will because God gave us free will. Only God knows all things, including those who will be saved (THE ELECT). God's foreknowledge does not destroy, but includes, free will. God desires all men to be saved. Jesus died to redeem all men. God provides sufficient grace for all men to be saved. Man, in the exercise of his free will, can accept or reject grace. Those who accept grace are saved, or born-again. Those who are born-again can fall away or fall into sin. Not everyone who is saved will persevere in grace. Those who do persevere are God's elect. Those who do not persevere, or who never accepted grace, are the reprobate. Since we can always reject God in this life, we have no absolute assurance that we will persevere. We can have a moral assurance of salvation if we maintain faith and keep God's commandments (1 John 2:1-6; 3:19-23; 5:1-3,13)Predestination is not predetermination According to St. Agustine, "Predestination is nothing else than the foreknowledge and foreordaining of those gracious gifts which make certain the salvation of all who are saved." Predestination is God's decree of the happiness of the elect. God's infallible foreknowledge (and thus predestination also) includes free will. God's foreknowledge cannot force upon man unavoidable coercion, for the simple reason that it is at bottom nothing else than the eternal vision of the future historical actuality. God foresees the free activity of a man precisely as that individual is willing to shape it, predestination is not predetermination of the human will. Election is a consequence of God's foreknowledge :

     
  12. jerryjohnson

    jerryjohnson New Member

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    First some homework, read some of the information in:
    http://www.christianityboard.com/forum/39-first-earth-age-and-the-three-earth-ages/
     
  13. Brother Mike

    Brother Mike New Member

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    The first Earth Age............................

    This believe is based on something happening on the Earth before Adam and the Garden. This possible makes the Earth Older than six thousand years. (Lord told me not older than 2 or 3 million, exact words)

    During this time, Angels (Some say Human spirits) where on the Earth. This would account for many of the dinosaurs that science think are millions and millions of years old, but they are not.

    People believe this because of the Language found in Gen 1:1......... The Earth was without form and void............ the Hebrew for Void means Laid to waste. We also see a similar account in Jer 4:25 or around there. Jeremiah said no man was found on the Earth. (Some think Jeremiah was talking about the future as certain scriptures before and after may lead someone to think that)

    So, we have a system, and possibly even cities that were built. Remember that Angels look just like you and me when they are in Physical form. So, we have these cities, and system.

    Now some contend that Satan at this time lost his mind. They point to Isa 14, and talk about pools of water and destroyed cities. Some contend that this is where the big split of the Angels occurred, So some became devils...

    Satan rebelled, Things got smashed up pretty bad, some say that 2 other planets also got whacked, but hard to prove. It was a pretty big event though.

    This was the first flood. God wiped out everything, and it points to that as the Garden of Eden was the only habitable place on the Earth at the time. This first flood did not cover the whole Earth as Noah's flood did, but it was a form of judgment. We get that idea from Isa 14 and 2 Peter 3:5..........

    Peter mentions that this flood peeps were ignorant of................. Well, every Jewish person knew of Noah's flood, and Peter's letter was to the Jews, so this flood must not have been the Noah flood, that Peter mentioned early before.

    Up until the Time of Noah, it had yet rained. apparently angels having the same anatomy of man were still allowed on the earth to interact with man. So, this is why Eve was not surprise to see Satan walk up and speak with her.

    This is roughly the first Earth Age, I say roughly because there is not a lot known about it.

    Jesus Is Lord.
     
  14. jerryjohnson

    jerryjohnson New Member

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    Once again, BM, you prove you have no idea what you are talking about. Try reading Scripture!
     
  15. 01CobraVortech

    01CobraVortech New Member

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    Please don't tell me you believe that the earth and universe is 6000 years old because I will not be able to stop :lol: all night long.
     
  16. jerryjohnson

    jerryjohnson New Member

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    I certainly don't know where you got that idea; I have shared what Scripture has to say about this a number of times. The earth is millions of years old; this earth age is going on 13,000 years old. Soon we will begin the millennium and then eternity.
     
  17. 6stringedsignseeker

    6stringedsignseeker New Member

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    I voted free will... this is a debate that pops up from time to time at the site where I'm an admin, and I highly respect those frequent members there that support predestination. However, it just doesn't seem to want to sit right with me. I don't know... if God already predetermined if we would be saved or not in our making, what's the point for the cross? That's just how I feel about it. 
     
  18. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly New Member

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    Universal Reconciliation- God reconciles all things to Himself through Christ.[​IMG]
     
  19. Brother Mike

    Brother Mike New Member

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    JerryJohnson:

    JerryJohnson............... This 1st Earth Age Theory is as I roughly laid it out. I looked at this about ten years ago. Trying to get information on it is hard, because Most of the Church World does not embrace this theory.

    There are after getting hold of some more opinions on this about ten years ago, several different versions. It is a concept that sounds feasible as I believe Scriptures point to something before Adam, but it is not a wildly accepted concept if even a thought as you have to really scrutinize word for Word what is written, to even think of such a theory.

    I am just jumping for joy for you Brother JerryJohnson, and in complete awe that God has chosen you and what (Christiana?) to have the absolute truth and understanding of this subject, while the rest of us in the Church world have a hard time grasping PERFECTLY this idea of a first age earth.

    Mind you, I was in a prison cell with a bible and concordance when I noticed that the Earth was Laid to waste, and began to wonder why that Hebrew word was used. It took me a few months to even find a connection to Peter in which I wondered why Peter would say for this they are ignorant of the flood. If I was on the ball as you were, I should have seen the whole picture. I guess I do not measure up to that high standard, and for that I am sorry if I offended you.

    Mike.
     
  20. Faithful

    Faithful New Member

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    Predestination and freewill.

    Whilst God gave man free will he predestined the elect by the coming of Christ.
    Made elect because God sent his Son Jesus to die on the cross so we could become the elect.
    Predestined by the will of God to send Jesus Christ.
    God is omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent he is not held or bound by our rules of time.

    Faithful. :D
     
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