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Proof That The OT Almighty God and Jesus Christ Are One In The Same

Discussion in 'Unorthodox Doctrine Forum' started by Phoneman777, Apr 15, 2018.

  1. Phoneman777

    Phoneman777 Well-Known Member

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    (All texts are from the KJV)

    AG: "In the beginning God created the heavens and the Earth." Genesis 1:1
    JC: "
    All things were made by Him and without Him nothing was made that was made." John 1:3

    "I am the Lord that maketh all things, that stretcheth forth the heavens ALONE, that spreadeth abroad the earth BY MYSELF." Isaiah 44:24 KJV
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    AG: "For I am the Lord your God...your
    Savior." Isaiah 43:3
    JC: "Looking for the...glorious appearing of the great God and our
    Savior Jesus Christ." Titus 2:13

    "I, even I, am the LORD; and BESIDE ME THERE IS NO SAVIOR." Isaiah 43:11
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    AG: "I am
    the first and I am the last." Isaiah 44:6
    JC: "I am the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the
    first and the last." Revelation 22:13

    "I am the first and I am the last and BESIDE ME THERE IS NO GOD." Isaiah 44:6
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    AG: "The Lord is my
    Shepherd" Psalms 23:1
    JC: "I am the good
    Shepherd." John 10:11

    "There...shall be one fold and ONE Shepherd." John 10:16
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    AG: "The Lord is my
    Rock." Psalms 18:2
    JC: "And that
    Rock was Christ." 1 Corinthians 10:4

    "He ONLY is my Rock..." Psalms 62:2
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    AG: "The
    mighty God, even the Lord, hath spoken..." Psalms 50:1
    JC: "His name shall be called wonderful, counselor, the
    mighty God..." Isaiah 9:6

    "But to us there is but ONE God..." 1 Corinthians 8:6
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    AG: "For the Lord is our
    Judge..." Isaiah 33:22
    JC: "For we must all appear before the
    Judgment seat of Christ." 2 Corinthians 5:10

    "For there is ONE that seeketh and judgeth." John 8:50
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    AG: "For the Lord is...our
    Lawgiver..." "Give ear, O people to My Law: incline thine ears to the words of My mouth. I will open My mouth in parables: I will utter dark sayings of old." Isaiah 33:22 Psalms 78:1
    JC: "All these things spake Jesus...that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying,
    I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world. Matthew 13:34-35

    "For there is ONE Lawgiver..." James 4:12
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    AG: "From
    everlasting to everlasting, Thou art God." Psalms 90:2
    JC: "His name shall be called...the
    everlasting Father..." Isaiah 9:6

    "Our Lord Jesus Christ...Who ONLY hath immortality." 1 Timothy 6:16
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    AG: "The Lord our
    righteousness." Jeremiah 13:16
    JC: "Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us...
    righteousness." 1 Corinthians 1:30

    "To declare, I say, at this time His righteousness: that He might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth...seeing it is ONE GOD, which shall justify...through faith." Romans 3:26-30
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    AG: "Thus saith the Lord, thy
    Redeemer." Isaiah 44:24
    JC: "In Whom we have
    Redemption through His blood." Ephesians 1:7

    "Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel, and His Redeemer the Lord of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and BESIDE ME THERE IS NO GOD." Isaiah 44:6
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    AG: "For the Lord your God is God of gods and
    Lord of lords." Deuteronomy 10:17
    JC: "The Lamb shall overcome them: for He is
    Lord of lords." Revelation 17:14
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    AG: "I am the Lord which
    sanctify you." Leviticus 20:8
    JC: "...to them who are
    sanctified in Christ Jesus." 1 Corinthians 1:2
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    Malachi 3:1 says it all:

    "Behold, I will send My messenger (John the Baptist),


    ...and he shall prepare the way before ME (the Old Testament Almighty God Who is declaring that He will take the path prepared by John for Him):

    ...and the LORD, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to His temple ("the glory of the latter shall outshine for former" because of the veiled glory of Jesus was to suddenly appear there),

    ...even the
    messenger of the covenant (Isaiah says Jesus was to be given "for a covenant to the people", Paul says Jesus came to "confirm the promises" - the covenant promises of God, Daniel says Jesus would confirm the covenant with many for one week, first in Person and then through His disciples according to Hebrews 2:3, and Jesus presented the cup as "the blood of New Covenant which shed for many for the remission of sins"),

    ...whom ye delight in: behold, He shall come, saith the LORD of hosts."
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2018
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  2. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    are you looking for proof or you have proof?.

    PCY
     
  3. Guestman

    Guestman Active Member

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    The false religious doctrine of the trinity will keep popping up until "the great tribulation", at which time Jesus words will be fulfilled, after the completion of the preaching of "the good news of the Kingdom in all the inhabited earth, and then the end will come".(Matt 24:14)

    At Matthew 24:15, Jesus stated: "Therefore, when you (Jesus true disciples) catch sight of the disgusting thing (the political "scarlet-colored wild beast" or the United Nations (Rev 17:3), along with the political "ten horns" [all political governments that are member nations of the United Nations], Rev 17:12), that causes desolation (whereby the false religious "prostitute" called Babylon the Great, that is all the religions of the "world" will be made "devastated and naked" or completely decimated by the political system, Rev 17:16), as spoken of through Daniel the prophet (Dan 9:26, 27)......for then there will be a great tribulation such as not occurred since the world's beginning until now, no, nor will occur again".(see Dan 12:1 as well as Luke 21:25-28) After this, the trinity doctrine will cease to exist.

    The trinity doctrine has been taught as "orthodox" since the Counsel of Chalcedon in 451 C.E., in which the final piece was put in place, that the holy spirit is also God. But those who carefully examine the Bible see that the Father, Jesus, and the holy spirit are not God as a trinity.

    Such scriptures as Matthew 24:36 shows otherwise, whereby Jesus said that concerning the "great tribulation" that neither the angels nor himself but only the Father, knew "the day and hour", would help define who Jesus really is, for how can Jesus be "Almighty God" and not know this date ?
    Or in conjunction with this, Jesus told his disciples just before his ascension to heaven, when asked if he was "restoring the kingdom to Israel at this time": "It does not belong to you to know the times or seasons which the Father has placed in his own jurisdiction".(Acts 1:6, 7)

    Question: If Jesus is "Almighty God", then again how is it that he was not able to answer the question posed to him by his apostles, that only "the Father" has knowledge of this ? But there is much more, for just because scriptures are quoted about God creating the universe at Genesis 1:1 and then quoting John 1:3, prove that Jesus is God. Why ?

    Because most never dig into the Bible deeply enough to recognize that Jesus is the Father's "master worker" (see Proverbs 8:22 and 30, whereby Jesus is "wisdom" personified in his prehuman existence and called God's "master worker" that was "produced" [verse 22, Hebrew qanah, meaning "to erect, i. e. create, to procure"] or created as God's "master worker" [Hebrew amohn meaning "skilled; an architect", thus denoting a "master worker", but which the King James Bible leaves out]) , in which everything came through Jesus, as Colossians 1:15, 16 states, establishing that Jesus is "the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; because by means of him all other things were created in the heavens and on the earth, the things visible and the things invisible".

    Question: How can Jesus be "Almighty God" and yet be "the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation" ? From logic alone, a person can realize that you cannot be a "firstborn", be an "image of the invisible God" and be God at the same time, for "firstborn" means just that, the first child born in a family and in the Bible, the first son born to a father.(see Deut 21:15-17; Joshua 6:26 and 1 Kings 16:34)

    And saying that using the word "savior" at Isaiah 43:3 and Titus 2:13 means that God and Jesus are one and the same is not seriously considering the whole Bible. For example, the judges of ancient Israel were called "savior" by God, such as Ehud (Judges 3:9, 15), who "saved" the nation of Israel from the despotic 18 year reign of Eglon, king of Moab.(Judges 3:12-14)

    And then at 2 Kings 13, during the reign of king Jehoahaz (876 to about 860 B.C.E.) who "continued to do what was bad in Jehovah's eyes" (2 Kings 13:2), but because Jehoahaz begged for God's favor due to Syria's domination over them, "Jehovah provided Israel with a savior to free them from Syria's grip".(2 Kings 13:5)

    Hence, anyone who saves others can be called a "savior", not just God. So at Titus 2:13, Jesus can be called "savior" and not be God, for at Titus 1:4, the apostle Paul clearly distinguishes between God and Jesus by writing: "To Titus, mine own son after the common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Savior".(King James Bible)

    And the apostle Peter told the Jews at the temple in Jerusalem: "Repent, therefore, and turn around so as to get your sins blotted out, so that season of refreshing may come from Jehovah himself and he may send the Christ appointed for you, Jesus.....In fact, Moses said: ' Jehovah your God will raise up for you from among your brothers a prophet like me".(Acts 3:19, 20, 22)

    Jehovah God has indeed raised up a prophet like Moses, a man of flesh of blood, but perfect like Adam. At 1 Timothy 2:5, the apostle Paul wrote: "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus".

    Thus, Jesus is the means by which Jehovah God has saved obedient mankind from sin and death (Rom 5:15,18, as he did with the judges to "save" ancient Israel from Gentile domination), buying back what our forefather Adam lost for those who exercise faith in Jesus shed blood, the hope of living on a paradise earth forever without sin and death.(Ps 37:11, 29; Matt 5:5)
     
  4. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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  5. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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  6. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    There is a correspondence between Gen 1:1 and John 1:1.

    But for those who are either WILFULLY BLIND or WILFULLY IGNORANT it will make no difference whatsoever. One could provide every Bible verse and yet they would not believe.

    The enemies of Christ (the Jewish religious leaders) had the same attitude. They refused to believe that Jesus is Almighty God even though they had all the evidence, and all the Scriptures, and the words of Christ before them. Today's unbelieving Jews are also the same.
     
  7. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    it has everything to do with it, but you just want to "worship" Jesus i guess, like the "Two Greeks"

    but it doesn't matter, right; i could go on for the rest of the day, but for those who are willfully blind or ignorant, "Son of Man" simply cannot be understood. "Jesus is God" is the only way you feel you can legitimize your pagan worship i guess
    wadr
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2018
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  8. amadeus

    amadeus Well-Known Member

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    On the contrary! If Jesus and the Father are "one in the same" then Jesus was praying that you and I would be what he was:

    "Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
    That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
    And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
    I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me." John 17:20-23


    Was Jesus praying that each of us would be a equal part of the Godhead, moving from supposedly well beyond oneness or duality or trinity to multiplicity?
     
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  9. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    "
    The words Christ (that's Greek) and Messiah (that's Hebrew) are not names reserved for one individual but rather common titles. They mean "Anointed" and were bestowed upon all prophets, (high-)priests and kings. The idea is that those officials had no earthly superior, and were thus wholly autonomous and therefore wholly responsible for their actions and the effects thereof.

    Despite the admirable ardor of many today, a "follower" of Jesus does not become a Christian, which is someone who pertains to the anointing, but a Christ, which is someone who partakes in the anointing (2 Corinthians 1:21, 1 John 2:20 and 2:27). The difference is not subtle. Someone who pertains to the anointing is not an anointed, is not in Christ and is a servant. Someone who partakes in the anointing is an anointed, is in Christ and is free."

    The reality of Christ
    http://www.abarim-publications.com/Meaning/Mary.html#.W1ZOfNJKiUl
     
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  10. Guestman

    Guestman Active Member

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    You remind me of the illustration of the "Rich man and Lazarus", in which through this illustration (that showed that there would be a change of who had God's blessing (signified by the death of each), being taken away from "the rich man" or Jewish religious leaders who fed "Lazarus" or the common people only spiritual "crumbs" and his blessing now being poured out on "Lazarus" or the common Jews who hungered for spiritual truths and received them from Jesus), Jesus established that no amount of "signs" or information or "truths" within the Bible will change a person who is content with the "status quo" of the trinity instead of recognizing that Jesus is "God's only-begotten Son"(John 3:16), that he is "the beginning of the creation by God" (Rev 3:14), the "firstborn of all creation"(Col 1:15), that he has a Father just we all do (2 Cor 1:3; Eph 1:3), who said "Abba, Father", an enduring term that a Jewish child used with regard to his or her father, meaning basically "daddy".(Mark 14:36)

    At Luke 16, in the illustration, the "rich man" asks "Abraham" (that pictures Jehovah God) to send to his house a witness to his five brothers concerning all the torment that he is receiving (or all the harsh condemnations and scathing denunciations of the Jewish religious leaders by Jesus) so that "they will not also come into this place of torment", in which "Abraham" replied: "They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to these, but which the "rich man" responded: "No, indeed, father Abraham, but if someone from the dead (those of the common people or Lazarus class that died with regard to their former course of life) goes to them, they will repent ', but which "Abraham said: "If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets (or what the Bible teaches), neither will they be persuaded if someone rises from the dead".(Luke 16:27-31)

    Thus, we all have the Bible, and it is not difficult to grasp that Jesus is NOT God, that it does not require a miracle, in effect, someone rising from the dead, to understand this basic "truth".
     
  11. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    Quite the opposite. We have all of the Bible to establish that Jesus is indeed God. And those who do not believe that He is "I AM" (Almighty God) will die in their sins.

    In all the NT quotations shown below the translators should not have inserted "he" in italics" but capitalized "I AM" since Jesus plainly said that "Before Abraham was I AM". This could only be interpreted in one way, which would be a reference to Exodus 3:13-15. God's name is I AM THAT I AM or simply I AM, and Jesus took that name for Himself. As Scripture says "He thought it not robbery to be equal with God" (Phil 2:6).

    EXODUS 3
    And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?
    And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
    And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.


    I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I AM [he], ye shall die in your sins.
    (John 8:24)

    Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I AM [he], and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things. (John 8:28)

    Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM. (John 8:58)

    JOHN 18
    4 Jesus therefore, knowing all things that should come upon him, went forth, and said unto them, Whom seek ye?
    5 They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I AM [he]. And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them.
    6 As soon then as he had said unto them, I AM [he], they went backward, and fell to the ground.
    7 Then asked he them again, Whom seek ye? And they said, Jesus of Nazareth.
    8 Jesus answered, I have told you that I AM [he]: if therefore ye seek me, let these go their way:
     
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