Psychics and Mediums?

[Dave L]

We see lots of this today. People even use the bible to forecast the future beyond what is clearly written. But what do you think? I ran across this and thought I'd share it. It is in a NET Bible note concerning mediums channeling the spirits of the dead for extra biblical information.

“Do not turn to the spirits of the dead and do not seek familiar spirits to become unclean by them. I am the LORD your God.” (Leviticus 19:31) (NET)

The prohibition here concerns those who would seek special knowledge through the spirits of the dead, whether the dead in general or dead relatives in particular (i.e., familiar spirits; see J. E. Hartley, Leviticus [WBC], 321, and B. A. Levine, Leviticus [JPSTC], 134). Cf. Lev 20:6 below. Biblical Studies Press. (2005). The NET Bible First Edition; Bible. English. NET Bible.; The NET Bible. Biblical Studies Press.

So scripture treats this as reality, and according to the NET Bible Scholars, the extra biblical knowledge can even include dead relatives speaking through other human beings.

Any thoughts?

 

[1stCenturyLady]

We see lots of this today. People even use the bible to forecast the future beyond what is clearly written. But what do you think? I ran across this and thought I'd share it. It is in a NET Bible note concerning mediums channeling the spirits of the dead for extra biblical information.

“Do not turn to the spirits of the dead and do not seek familiar spirits to become unclean by them. I am the LORD your God.” (Leviticus 19:31) (NET)

The prohibition here concerns those who would seek special knowledge through the spirits of the dead, whether the dead in general or dead relatives in particular (i.e., familiar spirits; see J. E. Hartley, Leviticus [WBC], 321, and B. A. Levine, Leviticus [JPSTC], 134). Cf. Lev 20:6 below. Biblical Studies Press. (2005). The NET Bible First Edition; Bible. English. NET Bible.; The NET Bible. Biblical Studies Press.

So scripture treats this as reality, and according to the NET Bible Scholars, the extra biblical knowledge can even include dead relatives speaking through other human beings.

Any thoughts?

It takes spiritual wisdom and a fear of the Lord to understand that the devil counterfeits the real things of God, and to discern the difference, without making the dire mistake of attributing to Satan a wonder of God. I'm afraid you are on dangerous ground.

 

[Dave L]

It takes spiritual wisdom and a fear of the Lord to understand that the devil counterfeits the real things of God, and to discern the difference, without making the dire mistake of attributing to Satan a wonder of God. I'm afraid you are on dangerous ground.

Not if I don't listen to extra biblical sources.

 

[amadeus]

Not if I don't listen to extra biblical sources.

No one can live for God by the Bible alone. If a person is really living for God the Holy Spirit has something to do with it. So my friend, it you are living for God in any measure you are being led in that measure by the Holy Spirit even if you do not recognize it

 

[Dave L]

No one can live for God by the Bible alone. If a person is really living for God the Holy Spirit has something to do with it. So my friend, it you are living for God in any measure you are being led in that measure by the Holy Spirit even if you do not recognize it

The Holy Spirit leads through scripture. He does not speak through prophets today. You are listening to the wrong voices if you think so.

 

[amadeus]

The Holy Spirit leads through scripture. He does not speak through prophets today. You are listening to the wrong voices if you think so.

You certainly misunderstand according to what I see...

"And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice" John 10:4

The "eyes to see" and the "ears to hear" come through the Holy Spirit in us. This is how we hear His voice. When we read a Bible if it is brought to Life in us, it is the Holy Spirit that does it. Without the Spirit, it is the letter of death:

"Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life." II Cor 3:5-6

You would apparently assign even the voice of the Master to being a medium if it disagreed with your understanding. This allows no room for growth since growth must come through the Holy Spirit that you effectively reject as being outside of the Bible.

 

[Dave L]

You certainly misunderstand according to what I see...

"And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice" John 10:4

The "eyes to see" and the "ears to hear" come through the Holy Spirit in us. This is how we hear His voice. When we read a Bible if it is brought to Life in us, it is the Holy Spirit that does it. Without the Spirit, it is the letter of death:

"Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life." II Cor 3:5-6

You would apparently assign even the voice of the Master to being a medium if it disagreed with your understanding. This allows no room for growth since growth must come through the Holy Spirit that you effectively reject as being outside of the Bible.

This all points to Jesus' own words written down in scripture.

 

[amadeus]

This all points to Jesus' own words written down in scripture.

The written words are dead until and if they are quickened in a person by the Holy Spirt. This is why there are so many contradictory doctrines put forth based sometimes on exactly the same written verses of scripture. Some or all person involved are at times quenching the Holy Spirit.

 

[Dave L]

The written words are dead until and if they are quickened in a person by the Holy Spirt. This is why there are so many contradictory doctrines put forth based sometimes on exactly the same written verses of scripture. Some or all person involved are at times quenching the Holy Spirit.

““It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life.” (John 6:63) (NASB95)

But the words exist only in scripture, or through those quoting scripture. They are not understood by any not born again above a certain level.

 

[amadeus]

““It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life.” (John 6:63) (NASB95)

But the words exist only in scripture, or through those quoting scripture. They are not understood by any not born again above a certain level.

Even if they did exist only in scripture, as the verse I cited indicates, it is the spirit [Spirit] that quickens them. Otherwise they are like the unresurrected Jesus on the cross... a dead body. Jesus did resurrect and so may his body when we consume it and it is quickened within us. Otherwise, it remains dead in spite of the best logical and usage of the intellectual and/or scientific methodology of men alone.

 

[Dave L]

Even if they did exist only in scripture, as the verse I cited indicates, it is the spirit [Spirit] that quickens them. Otherwise they are like the unresurrected Jesus on the cross... a dead body. Jesus did resurrect and so may his body when we consume it and it is quickened within us. Otherwise, it remains dead in spite of the best logical and usage of the intellectual and/or scientific methodology of men alone.

This we agree on. What we disagree on are extra biblical sources for God's word.

 

[amadeus]

This we agree on. What we disagree on are extra biblical sources for God's word.

So then leave it in God's capable hands. If we follow Him, we will not go wrong, will we?

 

[Dave L]

So then leave it in God's capable hands. If we follow Him, we will not go wrong, will we?

Only if we go beyond scripture.

 

[amadeus]

Only if we go beyond scripture.

The horse you are riding is still dead.

 

[Dave L]

The horse you are riding is still dead.

If you think God's word is dead, you do not know how deep it is.

 

[amadeus]

If you think God's word is dead, you do not know how deep it is.

The Word of God is alive, but the unopened unread Bible is dead. Even the Bible read by a person without the quickening of the Holy Spirit is dead. Consider the well studied atheist!

 

[Dave L]

The Word of God is alive, but the unopened unread Bible is even the Bible read by a person without the quickening of the Holy Spirit is dead. Consider the well studied atheist!

I think we agree on this. But scripture is complete and thoroughly furnishes us. God does not speak to us verbally in any other way.
“All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.” (2 Timothy 3:16–17) (KJV 1900)

 

[amadeus]

I think we agree on this. But scripture is complete and thoroughly furnishes us. God does not speak to us verbally in any other way.
“All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.” (2 Timothy 3:16–17) (KJV 1900)

I believe that the Bible contains all the information we ultimately need, but until it is all understood the one who reads or studies it remains incomplete. Is this incomplete in knowledge only? Can a person please God and remain with Him always with incomplete knowledge? I do believe so but the final decision on that too remains in God's hands.

Some of here on this forum are going to complete our course [natural death] but end up pleasing God even though our knowledge is incomplete. Whose knowledge is complete other than God alone?

 

[Enoch111]

No one can live for God by the Bible alone. If a person is really living for God the Holy Spirit has something to do with it.

And no one should separate the JOINT OPERATIONS of the Bible and the Holy Spirit. Since the Bible is the Word of God, as well as a living Word, the Holy Spirit takes the words of God and applies them to every heart, every situation, and every need, beginning with the Gospel for the New Birth, and continuing with the deep things of God for a proper understanding of the character of God and Christ, as well as their eternal plans and purposes.

Christians can read, and study, and listen to all kinds of extra-biblical information, but everything must be TESTED by the written Word of God. When Paul says *Prove all things, hold fast that which is good*, what is the acid test which must be applied (Q) It is what God has revealed in His written Word, called *the Holy Scriptures*. Hence *It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.* (Mt 4:4)

The way that spiritual errors and confusion entered into Christendom was by failing to make the Bible the supreme and ultimate authority for all things spiritual. The Reformers recognized this, hence *Sola Scriptura*. But today, under the influence of the Charismatic and New Age Movements, too many Christians are making *personal experience* the criterion by which to separate truth from error, the chaff from the wheat. And that is dangerous.

Getting back to psychics and mediums (and horoscopes) the Bible is crystal clear. They are manifestations of Satanic deception and must be avoided by Christians at all costs.

 

[amadeus]

And no one should separate the JOINT OPERATIONS of the Bible and the Holy Spirit. Since the Bible is the Word of God, as well as a living Word, the Holy Spirit takes the words of God and applies them to every heart, every situation, and every need, beginning with the Gospel for the New Birth, and continuing with the deep things of God for a proper understanding of the character of God and Christ, as well as their eternal plans and purposes.

Christians can read, and study, and listen to all kinds of extra-biblical information, but everything must be TESTED by the written Word of God. When Paul says *Prove all things, hold fast that which is good*, what is the acid test which must be applied (Q) It is what God has revealed in His written Word, called *the Holy Scriptures*. Hence *It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.* (Mt 4:4)

The way that spiritual errors and confusion entered into Christendom was by failing to make the Bible the supreme and ultimate authority for all things spiritual. The Reformers recognized this, hence *Sola Scriptura*. But today, under the influence of the Charismatic and New Age Movements, too many Christians are making *personal experience* the criterion by which to separate truth from error, the chaff from the wheat. And that is dangerous.

Getting back to psychics and mediums (and horoscopes) the Bible is crystal clear. They are manifestations of Satanic deception and must be avoided by Christians at all costs.

I am sorry but we differ considerably in some places. I would have to write almost a book and to whom would it be edifying? Only God gives the increase!