1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Question for Catholics or those who have left the Catholic church

Discussion in 'Inter-Faith Discussion' started by shnarkle, Aug 16, 2019.

Should churches provide a mechanism for release from sacred vows?

This poll will close on Mar 16, 2020 at 3:07 PM.
  1. yes, they should

    2 vote(s)
    33.3%
  2. no, they sholdn't

    2 vote(s)
    33.3%
  3. why bother? Just leave.

    1 vote(s)
    16.7%
  4. Don't join in the first place.

    1 vote(s)
    16.7%
  5. Just "crash" church services like wedding crashers. There's no need to become a member.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. shnarkle

    shnarkle Active Member

    Messages:
    922
    Likes Received:
    244
    Just wondering if anyone who has left the Catholic faith ever considered the possibility of being officially excommunicated. The reason I ask is because after being confirmed into the faith, one has made a solemn vow to keep and uphold the Catholic faith. To then just walk away seems like it would present a problem to people who aren't in the habit of breaking their vows.

    Perhaps it matters why one leaves the church. If one were to discover some sort of subterfuge, this might warrant one to seek release from their vow; an annulment of sorts. The Catholic church has an annulment process for marriage vows, why not for annulling confirmation vows?
     
    Nancy likes this.
  2. lforrest

    lforrest Well-Known Member Staff Member Admin

    Messages:
    2,827
    Likes Received:
    1,521
    Faith:
    Christian
    I would have to know what the exact vow is, and what it means within the RCC. Much of their doctrine ignores the existence of other denominations. So it may be possible to remain "Catholic" because to them that is the universal church. I.e. so long as you are Christian you are Catholic.

    Are you facing this delimma personally? Your maturity at the time of the vow may play a role. For example someone could have made a vow preventing them from becoming a Christian, yet they must to be saved.
     
    Heart2Soul likes this.
  3. GodsGrace

    GodsGrace Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    9,146
    Likes Received:
    5,011
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Italy
    Practically everyone that has been confirmed in the CC would be eligible for a "confirmation" annulment.

    The reason is that most kdis don't know what they're doing when they are confirmed.

    But why did you pick confirmation?
     
  4. JohnPaul

    JohnPaul Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    578
    Likes Received:
    486
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    I voted no they shouldn’t, I keep my vows, I’m simply Christian now, though not perfect, I follow my heart, I don’t go to any Church now.
     
  5. shnarkle

    shnarkle Active Member

    Messages:
    922
    Likes Received:
    244
    The vow could be anything, e.g. confirmation, holy orders etc. It is not possible to remain Catholic if one has recanted or renounced their faith in Catholicism. One can also engage in some "mortal sin" which places them into a state of excommunication. My point is in noting that being officially placed in a state of excommunication doesn't seem to be any where near as prevalent as it used to be. It seems to be reserved for high profile figures, e.g. cardinals, political figures, etc.

    If someone were to pin their thesis to the door of the local cathedral, it would most likely be simply tossed into the trash and ignored. The problem I see is that there is no avenue to address this segment of the population who still believes their vow means something. They have a mechanism to deal with marriage, holy orders, but nothing to deal with one's vow of confirmation, at least as far as I know.

    Most people really couldn't care less, but for someone who discovers that the Catholic church has doctrines which are central to Catholicism, yet those very same doctrines are false, how can they truly move on to another denomination when their vow is still binding? How can another denomination accept them when there is no mechanism in place to allow them a release from their vow?

    One could argue that the vow is null and void because the premises are false, but I'm not convinced it is enough to simply come to this conclusion. There's a double standard here. If it isn't important enough to provide this mechanism, why is this mechanism required for annulling marriages?

    I do know that the Catholic church has recently begun a process to fast track the annulment process. They condensed the time as well as the cost.
     
  6. DoveSpirit05

    DoveSpirit05 Active Member

    Messages:
    323
    Likes Received:
    111
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    leave them, their a false apostate and even demonic religion, I used 2 be catholic, I was an autar boy, its why they have so much phedeophilia, and not 2 mention all the other things they've tried 2 cover up like killing Christian marters, their not Christian far from it, and their not the successor of peter the bishop, they follow their own man made traditions, if u wanna make a vow 2 something make a vow 2 the real christiality.
     
  7. aspen

    aspen “"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few

    Messages:
    13,122
    Likes Received:
    4,014
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    I believe....the rule on confirmation is that it cannot be undone.....once you are a member, you cannot leave. But I am not sure
     
  8. aspen

    aspen “"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few

    Messages:
    13,122
    Likes Received:
    4,014
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    My ex wife got the house and everything in it, but she will not give me an annulment.
     
  9. shnarkle

    shnarkle Active Member

    Messages:
    922
    Likes Received:
    244
    The church teaches that one who commits a mortal sin, or persists in sin is automatically in a state of excommunication. The church used to publicly excommunicate people as well, e.g. bishops, political figures, etc.
     
  10. aspen

    aspen “"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few

    Messages:
    13,122
    Likes Received:
    4,014
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    It still happens. Lots of priests who are teaching heresy
     
  11. shnarkle

    shnarkle Active Member

    Messages:
    922
    Likes Received:
    244
    Yes, they'll excommunicate someone who is teaching heresy, but lay members of the church who have these same heretical beliefs aren't excommunicated unless they're a public figure who is still receiving sacraments, e.g. going to communion, etc.

    They don't seem interested in excommunicating anyone who wants to be excommunicated.
     
  12. aspen

    aspen “"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few

    Messages:
    13,122
    Likes Received:
    4,014
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    I used to work in a Presbyterian Church before joining CC, and money plays a big role.
     
  13. brakelite

    brakelite Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,297
    Likes Received:
    3,520
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Australia
    One would have to establish whether God is actually a part of the deal before one would call it sacred. Would one bother to seek official release from a Satanist cult because he made a vow to join then later became a Christian? Why any other organisation, Christian or otherwise? Do we really need anyones permission to become Christians?
     
    Pearl likes this.
  14. DoveSpirit05

    DoveSpirit05 Active Member

    Messages:
    323
    Likes Received:
    111
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    ok man!! its 2 ur own detriment!! catholisism is a false teaching and is gonna lead u 2 hell if u don't leave it, don't say I didn't warn you! but if u don't think so den defend your religion right now!!
     
  15. aspen

    aspen “"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few

    Messages:
    13,122
    Likes Received:
    4,014
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    No offense, but I’ve spent 19 years studying Catholicism - don’t you think it is a bit arrogant to expect me to change my entire relationship with God because you tell me to, based on your own prejudices?
     
    GodsGrace likes this.
  16. shnarkle

    shnarkle Active Member

    Messages:
    922
    Likes Received:
    244
    I think it's more about your relationship with the body of the church, and that relationship goes beyond superficial denominationalism. It is always bewildering to me to see people say things that sound exactly like what the Pharisees were saying thousands of years ago, and they're oblivious of this phenomenon. We all tend to migrate to those places where we are the most comfortable. We seek that soil that allows us to grow, and produce fruit.

    Only God can condemn the damned, and yet so many feel they just can't wait to place others in hell before they're even dead. Wouldn't you think that those who see that they have no authority whatsoever, never mind any power to influence anyone would eventually get a clue that they've missed their calling? Clanging gongs are useless, and need to be muted.
     
  17. aspen

    aspen “"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few

    Messages:
    13,122
    Likes Received:
    4,014
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Yes!

    And here is more truth found in this type of situation; no one should leave any relationship feeling angry or at least they should have a plan to deal with angry emotions. Ripping people out of their cult is not healthy! Most likely, it results in anger towards all organized religion and God. Atheists may not exist in foxholes, but they are born out of this type of anger. The Jewish people rescued from concentration camps in WWII died when the well meaning soldiers feed them.

    If I discovered that Catholicism was tricking me, I would want to leave without resentment or a desire to retaliate, which I see several people doing here, “I was raised Catholic and they sacrificed babies every night! And used to worship Mary by the light of full moon!”.

    We all have to find our way in this world and Christ is faithful! He is not trying to trick us! We may, in fact, be called to a cult for a good reason, which may not be obvious.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2019
    GodsGrace likes this.
  18. GodsGrace

    GodsGrace Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    9,146
    Likes Received:
    5,011
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Italy
    Are you still around?
    Could you answer my post no. 3 Please?

    Also, you said this in the O.P.

    after being confirmed into the faith, one has made a solemn vow to keep and uphold the Catholic faith.

    Could you post a link or explain how you know this?

    Thanks.
     
  19. Pearl

    Pearl Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,775
    Likes Received:
    2,180
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    After my Catholic friends came to Christ they wanted to leave their Catholic church but their priest was happy for them that they had discovered the truth and they left with his blessing. That priest was an enlightened man.
     
    aspen and GodsGrace like this.
  20. DoveSpirit05

    DoveSpirit05 Active Member

    Messages:
    323
    Likes Received:
    111
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    prove it? plus its not how long uv been traveling its how far uv travelled!!
     
Loading...