Question on creation and judgement

[Fether]

I have a problem with this and I’m likely one in a line of countless people that have had these types of questions.

Christian theology teaches:

1. God created everyone ex nihilo. He brought into everyone from not existing to existence, designed each one of us from the ground up, loved us, and sent us to earth knowing exactly the decisions we would make.

2. Final judgement will result in the righteous in heaven and the wicked burning in Hell. Both being for eternity.

At its core, my question is why would he bring people into existence only to have them burn for eternity?

Some responses I have heard.

Diamond on black backdrop: The diamond shines brighter and more magnificent when placed against a black background. Hell is needed to show how great heaven will be.

I find this as an interesting take on the trolley problem. Build a trolley and willingly choose to have it Torture 9 out of 10 people for eternity so 1 out of 10 people can live in joy for all eternity.

God does not make us sin: But he did make us to sin. We did not exist, then He breathed life into us and made us the way we are and placed us in a position on earth where he knew we would not accept him and go to hell.

We shouldn’t be asking this question: The question itself causes us to doubt and distrust God, so we shouldn’t ask it.
I appreciate the sentiment, but it doesn’t answer the question

We don’t know: I can buy this one. I don’t love it, but I am not so prideful to say that I have as much understanding as God. His ways are above mine.

Is it loving to have the wicked burn in hell for eternity instead of never having existed? Instead of burning, could he not just strip the wicked of existence and put them back into the place they were before having been made?

 

[Fether]

If there is anywhere you feel I am misrepresenting this or I have something wrong, please let me know.

 

[marks]

God does not make us sin: But he did make us to sin.

Faulty premise. No, He did not. Allowing someone to choose something isn't the same as choosing for them.

Much love!

 

[marks]

If there is anywhere you feel I am misrepresenting this or I have something wrong, please let me know.

I look at this starting from a different place.

What was God intending when He created Man? I think it was to be recipients, and distributors of His love. I think that this requires us to be able to choose. I think that choices have consequences, and real choices have real consequences.

What we are now, and what God created Adam are very different, wholely different.

Much love!

 

[Fether]

Faulty premise. No, He did not. Allowing someone to choose something isn't the same as choosing for them.

Much love!

Am I wrong in that God created us and knew exactly what we would do based on where he placed us and how he made us? Had we always existed and we approached God and asked to live with him and we willingly came here to prove ourselves, I would understand that, but that is not what the theology says. We did not exist, then he made us and put us in this world knowing we would or would not be obedient.

 

[marks]

Am I wrong in that God created us and knew exactly what we would do based on where he placed us and how he made us? Had we always existed and we approached God and asked to live with him and we willingly came here to prove ourselves, I would understand that, but that is not what the theology says. We did not exist, then he made us and put us in this world knowing we would or would not be obedient.

No, I don't think you are wrong in saying those things. But God is not a sinner. That He allowed someone to sin, knowing that they would, still doesn't make God a sinner, not secretly, privately, in some fringe or indirect or secondary causes sort of way.

There was value in allowing Man to choose, even knowing Man would choose wrongly.

Much love!

 

[Fether]

No, I don't think you are wrong in saying those things. But God is not a sinner. That He allowed someone to sin, knowing that they would, still doesn't make God a sinner, not secretly, privately, in some fringe or indirect or secondary causes sort of way.

There was value in allowing Man to choose, even knowing Man would choose wrongly.

Much love!

I agree entirely, I don’t think God sinned and I believe whole heartedly agency is a gift from God.

But imagine this. God was getting ready to create Steve, God knew that Steve would be grow up an average person, raise a family of mini Steve’s and die without accepting Christ as his savior, God prepared a place for Steve and his family to go to experience eternal torment because of their failure to accept Christ. At this point, why does God not just scrap the idea of Steve. If he continues on with his plan to make Steve, he is creating Steve purely to experience eternal torment.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

I look at this starting from a different place.

What was God intending when He created Man? I think it was to be recipients, and distributors of His love. I think that this requires us to be able to choose. I think that choices have consequences, and real choices have real consequences.

What we are now, and what God created Adam are very different, wholely different.

Much love!

Perhaps God is attempting to replace the third of Heaven that trusted Satan and became damned with a type of being that will trust HIM instead....

 

[marks]

I agree entirely, I don’t think God sinned and I believe whole heartedly agency is a gift from God.

But imagine this. God was getting ready to create Steve, God knew that Steve would be grow up an average person, raise a family of mini Steve’s and die without accepting Christ as his savior, God prepared a place for Steve and his family to go to experience eternal torment because of their failure to accept Christ. At this point, why does God not just scrap the idea of Steve. If he continues on with his plan to make Steve, he is creating Steve purely to experience eternal torment.

But God didn't create Steve. God created Man, of Whom Steve is a part. And Man was given choice. Man chose. Steve pays the price, being part of Man.

But God has a plan to rescue Steve, if Steve will agree to be rescued.

Why didn't God scrap the idea of creating Man? Because He intends to share Himself with Man, regardless. He has a way.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Perhaps God is attempting to replace the third of Heaven that trusted Satan and became damned with a type of being that will trust HIM instead....

He is making children who love Him because they want to. Not that they are robots who just do as created like we're running a program, but that we really really all the way inside we really DO want to love Him.

Much love!

 

[Fether]

Perhaps God is attempting to replace the third of Heaven that trusted Satan and became damned with a type of being that will trust HIM instead....

Them why would he willfully create from nothing a person who would reject him and burn for all eternity?

 

[Fether]

But God didn't create Steve. God created Man, of Whom Steve is a part. And Man was given choice. Man chose. Steve pays the price, being part of Man.

But God has a plan to rescue Steve, if Steve will agree to be rescued.

Why doen't God scrap the idea of creating Man? Because He intends to share Himself with Man, regardless. He has a way.

Much love!

Are you suggesting God did not create you? That he did not know you before the womb? We that you are just a bi-product of sex? That would are created in intercourse and the soul is new to God?

 

[marks]

God prepared a place for Steve and his family to go to experience eternal torment because of their failure to accept Christ.

Actually, the only place God prepared for Man was the earth, and God's kingdom. The Lake of Fire was made for the devil and his angels, and men get sent there.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

No, I don't think you are wrong in saying those things. But God is not a sinner. That He allowed someone to sin, knowing that they would, still doesn't make God a sinner, not secretly, privately, in some fringe or indirect or secondary causes sort of way.

There was value in allowing Man to choose, even knowing Man would choose wrongly.

Much love!

God values freedom so much, he risked the prospect of sin.....otherwise we would have a universe full of robots....God is looking for people that will trust Him, even though they have the freedom to do otherwise....those that trust themselves instead of God when it comes to finding Salvation will be very disappointed —- and very damned....” The man that finds Life will find it by Trusting God”.....

 

[marks]

Are you suggesting God did not create you? That he did not know you before the womb? We that you are just a bi-product of sex? That would are created in intercourse and the soul is new to God?

No I'm not.

I'm suggesting that God made Man - all of humanity wrapped up in Adam. That one man was also Mankind.

Levi paid tithes to Melchezadek being in the loins of Abraham, and in Adam all die. Men do not reproduce, as that "byproduct of sex", rather, He created me and you as He knelt on the ground He had just made, and patted together dirt into Man, and breathed life into Man. Everyone who would ever live, all of whom were written in the Book of Life, were created that day, their names written before the foundation of the world.

Much love!

 

[Fether]

Actually, the only place God prepared for Man was the earth, and God's kingdom. The Lake of Fire was made for the devil and his angels, and men get sent there.

Yes, he made it for the devil and his angels. And all the people God makes with his own two hands that don’t accept Christ get sent there.

Again, this would be fine if God wasn’t all knowing. But he is all knowing. So why would he create a soul that he knew would spend eternity in Hell?

 

[Fether]

God values freedom so much, he risked the prospect of sin.....otherwise we would have a universe full of robots....God is looking for people that will trust Him, even though they have the freedom to do otherwise....those that trust themselves instead of God when it comes to finding Salvation will be very disappointed —- and very damned....” The man that finds Life will find it by Trusting God”.....

God doesn’t risk anything. He knows all. And he isn’t looking for people that will trust him. He made the people that will trust him and made the people that won’t. It seems he is literally creating people for Heaven, and others for Hell.

 

[marks]

Yes, he made it for the devil and his angels. And all the people God makes with his own two hands that don’t accept Christ get sent there.

Again, this would be fine if God wasn’t all knowing. But he is all knowing. So why would he create a soul that he knew would spend eternity in Hell?

That's truly a question for God . . . however, my thinking is that for us to be able to love Him because we want to, we have to be able to not love Him if we don't want to. And choice have consequences, and real choices have real consequences, and if you don't get off the bus at the next to the last stop, everyone has to get off at the last stop.

In asking why does God send men into the lake of fire, why not also ask why God endured a miserable life as a man, to rescue us from that happening? Personally I think there's part of the rule book God hasn't shown us, I can only surmise.

Much love!

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Yes, he made it for the devil and his angels. And all the people God makes with his own two hands that don’t accept Christ get sent there.

Again, this would be fine if God wasn’t all knowing. But he is all knowing. So why would he create a soul that he knew would spend eternity in Hell?

......maybe because any alternative would have been worse....don’t ask me how....God is smarter than you and I, and I forone am not smart enough to be a His Critic —- how about you?

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

God doesn’t risk anything. He knows all. And he isn’t looking for people that will trust him. He made the people that will trust him and made the people that won’t. It seems he is literally creating people for Heaven, and others for Hell.

romans 9:21
Job 40:1-8

i say this in a loving way, but you questioning Gods ways isnt a good idea. Job tried that… it didnt go well for him.