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[Question]on rev6:8 is it hades or hell?

Discussion in 'Bible Study Forum' started by Funny bird, Mar 24, 2020.

  1. Funny bird

    Funny bird Member

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    8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

    is this really hell or hades?
    because there seems to be no question area maybe bible study forum will do
     
  2. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    It is Hades, and should never have been translated as Hell (which is Gehenna).

    Also Death and Hades have been personified here, and in Revelation 20.
     
  3. Funny bird

    Funny bird Member

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    why is it hades instead of hell?
     
  4. BARNEY BRIGHT

    BARNEY BRIGHT Well-Known Member

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    The word hell should never be translated Gehenna. The word Hell represents a place, Gehenna is symbolic of complete annihilation. It represents a condition not a place.
     
  5. Base12

    Base12 Active Member

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    So the KJV has mistakes in it?
     
  6. Base12

    Base12 Active Member

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    Speaking of Rev 6:8, here are some questions I have to the Forum if anyone knows...

    How did Hades follow Death?

    Is Hades the Fifth Horsemen?

    or...

    Did Death and Hades ride on the same horse?

    or...

    Is Hades actually the 'Shadow' of Death?

    Psalms 23:4
    "Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me"


    Thus, Hades always follows Death because it is its Shadow.

    ;)
     
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  7. DNB

    DNB Well-Known Member

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    I was going to ask him the same question, knowing that he's KJVO.
     
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  8. achristian1985

    achristian1985 New Member

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    youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=rVEJNRDsIL0

    amazon.com/s?k=9781641407922&ref=nb_sb_noss



    Do Not confuse Hades with 'Hell'

    HADES

    Who knoweth the spirit of man, whether it goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast, whether it goeth downward to the earth? (Eccles. 3:21)

    It is obvious, especially when taken in context that the writer here is not speaking prophetically. Indeed, he is speaking cynically, rather than literally. This is the only verse in the whole Bible that could conceivably contradict the assertion that, of the life on earth today, man alone has a spirit. Due to its context, and in light of the meaning of the original language, we cannot credibly consider this verse to be in conflict with what is clearly and consistently shown by the rest of the Bible.

    And inasmuch as it is appointed unto men once to die, and after this cometh judgment; (Heb. 9:27)

    and the dust returneth to the earth as it was, and the spirit returneth unto God who gave it. (Eccles. 12:7)

    At death, man's physical body returns to dust and his spirit "returns to God." But what happens to the human soul after death? Due to man's having a spirit, his soul, unlike those of animals, is immortal. This poses a problem: the souls of the dead must be kept somewhere until their final disposition at the judgment.

    And thou, Capernaum, shalt be exalted unto heaven? Thou shalt go down unto Hades: ... (Matt. 11:23).

    And death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death, even the lake of fire. (Rev. 20:14)

    And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and Death and Hades"‑ that is, "the unseen world"; for the translation "Hell" is incorrect‑ "delivered up the dead which were in them; and they were judged every man according to their works" (Rev. xx.13). Now the sea is commonly supposed to be mentioned as giving up the bodily germs of those who have been drowned or buried in it. But if the meaning goes no further than that, why do we not also hear of the earth giving up the far more numerous dead which lie beneath its sods? Instead, however, of sea being coupled with land, we find it mysteriously connected with Death and the unseen world: that is, it is mentioned in a list of places filled, not with the remains of material forms, but with disembodied spirits.

    This is certainly a fatal objection to a common interpretation: but if the sea be the prison of demons, all difficulties vanish, and in that case we can well understand why it is the first to give up its dead. For every one will be judged in his order, and, therefore, these pre‑adamic beings will have an awful precedence of the prisoners of Death and Hades, whose innumerable cells are, perhaps, filled exclusively with criminals from our present world ‑ excerpt from Earth's Earliest Ages, p. 61.

    Ye serpents, ye offspring of vipers, how shall ye escape the judgment of hell (Gehenna)? (Matt. 23‑33)

    The Bible uses two entirely different words concerning disposition of the souls of the dead. Most people fail to distinguish between Hell (GREEK: Gehenna), and Hades (Greek: Hades), considering them to be different words for the same thing. This is far from being the case, and a correct knowledge of this matter is essential to an understanding of several other spiritual matters.

    Rather than having two eyes to be cast into the hell (Gehenna) of fire. (Matt. 18:9)

    Hell is the burning lake of fire, which, dispensationally speaking, is not yet. The purpose of hell is that of a universal eternal disposal for all of the negative things after they have been righteously judged. Such an eternal disposal is necessary for creatures with a spiritual aspect to their being, and will include the fallen angels, the demons, and unregenerated human beings. Hades, however, is a keeping-place for the souls of dead human beings, some of the demons (originally all of them), and the special category of fallen angels discussed in Appendix VII. That these are two distinctly different things is proven by Revelation 20:14, where this verse states that Hades is cast into the lake of fire (Gehenna).

    Hades has existed since the disembodiment of the demonic race, long before the time of the human race (Hades’ original purpose was the confinement of the disembodied spirits of the demonic race), and will exist until the end of the millennium. To enable us to realize the significance of other biblical, non‑physical matters, let us now learn what we may about Hades. Although Hades most probably cannot be considered a physical place, nonetheless it does have a physical location, which will make several other matters clear.

    Yea, his soul draweth near to the pit, and his life to the destroyers. (Job 33:22)

    What is the pit, and how does it relate to Hades?

    ... And thou hast delivered my soul from the depths of Sheol. (Ps. 86:13 NASB)

    Hades has different levels; saints and sinners are not lumped together indiscriminately. The Old Testament believer here met with God's approval, such that at death God did not let his soul be consigned to Sheol but to a better, higher level of Hades. What are the other levels?


    Sheol and Abaddon are before Jehovah ... (Prov. 15:11).

    And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star from heaven fallen unto the earth: and there was given to him the key of the pit of the abyss.... They have over them as king the angel of the abyss: his name in Hebrew is Abaddon, and in the Greek tongue he hath the name Apollyon. (Rev. 9:1, 11)

    At first glance, Abaddon, like Sheol, appears to be another level of Hades, but Abaddon is the name of the angel of the abyss.

    In other translations "the pit of the abyss" is rendered "the bottomless pit," indicating further the non‑physical characteristics of Hades. But Hades does have a physical location.

    Therefore Sheol hath enlarged its desire, and opened its mouth without measure; their glory, and their multitude, and their pomp, and he that rejoiceth among them, descend into it. (Isa. 5:14)

    The wicked shall be turned back unto Sheol, Even all the nations that forget God. (Ps. 9:171

    And they shall not lie with the mighty that are fallen of the uncircumcised, that are gone down to Sheol with their weapons of war, and have laid their swords under their heads, and their iniquities are upon their bones; for they were the terror of the mighty in the land of the living. (Ezek. 32:27)
     
  9. achristian1985

    achristian1985 New Member

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    Whose graves are set in the uttermost parts of the pit, and her company is round about her grave; all of them slain, fallen by the sword, who caused terror in the land of the living. (Ezek. 32:23)

    A careful consideration of these verses discloses that the pit is comprised of two levels, Sheol being the name of the uppermost one. The pit is the part of Hades where the souls of unbelievers are kept, with the better unbelievers kept in Sheol, and the worse ones kept in the lower level.

    For if God spared not angels when they sinned, but cast them down to hell, and committed them to pits of darkness, to be renewed unto judgment; (2 Pet. 2:4).

    The word translated incorrectly here as hell is not the Greek word for hell (Gehenna), but is the Greek word Tartarus. Tartarus is the lowest level of Hades and the lower of the two levels that to compromise the pit, Sheol being the upper one of the two. Evil unbelievers are kept in Tartarus, along with the chained fallen angels who sinned further than their peers, as is detailed in Appendix VII. As we shall see in Chapter Five, although some of the demons are still confined to Hades (in the pit and almost certainly Tartarus), most of them escaped their confinement before the time of Adam.


    And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and that he was carried away by the angels into Abraham's bosom: and the rich man also died, and was buried. And in Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am in anguish in this flame. But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and Lazarus in like manner evil things: but not here he is comforted, and thou art in anguish. And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, that they that would pass from hence to you may not be able, and that none may cross over from thence to us. (Luke 16:22‑26)


    Sheol and Tartarus are two distinct levels but, although it is almost certainly the case, there is no specific mention of a gulf or barrier between them. We see here that there is a level containing the souls of the dead that is higher than Sheol, but that there is a great gulf between it and the pit such that it is considered a separate part of Hades from Sheol and Tartarus. Why this is so we will see shortly. Another thing to notice is the torment of the rich man due to the heat. I repeat: Gehenna, the burning lake of fire and brimstone is not yet here. Why then the torment and whence the flame? The people on these levels are evil people- should we expect their keeping to be pleasant? As we have seen in previous verses, the pit is located beneath the abyss. This puts its physical location pretty deep in the earth (one verse‑"in the heart of the earth"), deep enough for the tremendous temperatures at such levels to cause the discomfort and torment spoken of.

    Now Samuel was dead, and all Israel had lamented him, and buried him in Ramah, even in his own city.... And Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up? ... (1Sam. 28:3, 16).

    Samuel was one of the Old Testament saints, so this verse substantiates that believers are kept in an upper level of Hades, which is located beneath the abyss. What is this upper level, and where is the abyss?

    And he (Jesus) said unto him (one of the two men crucified beside Jesus, who had just repented), Verily I say unto thee, today shalt thou be with me in Paradise. (Luke 23:43)


    The thief on the cross believed on the Lord, so the Lord told him that that same day, at the end of which they would both be dead physically, he would be with the Lord in Paradise. Paradise, then, is the uppermost level of Hades, which contains the believers. Did you ever wonder where the Lord's soul was during the three days between His death and Resurrection?

    And Jehovah God planted a garden eastward, in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed. And out of the ground made Jehovah God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden. ... (Gen. 2:8‑9).

    I made it fair by the Multitude of its branches, so that all the trees of Eden, that were in the garden of God, envied it.... I made the nations to shake at the sound of his fall, when I cast him down to Sheol with them that descend into the pit; and all the trees of Eden, the choice and best of Lebanon, all that drink water, were comforted in the nether parts of the earth.... To whom art thou thus like in glory and in greatness among the trees of Eden? yet shalt thou be brought down with the trees of Eden unto the nether parts of the earth: thou shalt lie in the midst of the uncircumcised, with them that are slain with the sword. This is Pharaoh and all his multitude, saith the Lord Jehovah. (Ezek. 31:9,16,18)

    So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the Garden of Eden the Cherubim, and the flame of a sword, which turned every way, keep the way of the tree of life. (Gen. 3:24)

    It is clear from these (and other verses) that Paradise, the uppermost level of Hades, is as pleasant as the Garden of Eden. At the time of Adam, the Garden of Eden had a physical location on the surface of the earth in Mesopotamia. Due to the fall, man's access to the tree of life in the Garden of Eden was barred by God, as long as a man was physically alive in the fallen, corrupted flesh. After death, however, this restriction no longer applied ("For he that is dead is freed from sin"), so that the souls of believers could be kept in this Paradise, Eden, which has since the Fall been located beneath the abyss with the other two levels of Hades.

    Now, where was Christ during those three days?

    for as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the whale; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. (Matt 12:40)

    (Now this, He ascended, what is it but that he (Christ) also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? (Eph. 4:9)

    Because Christ also died for sins once, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God; being put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit; in which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison. (1 Pet. 3:18‑19)

    For unto this end was the gospel preached even to the dead, that they might be judged indeed according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit. (1 Pet. 4:6)

    For thou wilt not leave my soul to Sheol; Neither wilt thou offer thy holy one to see corruption. (Ps. 16:10)
     
  10. achristian1985

    achristian1985 New Member

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    he foreseeing this spake of the resurrection of the Christ, that neither was he left unto Hades, nor did his flesh see corruption. (Acts 2:31)

    whom God raised up, having loosed the pangs of death: because it was not possible that he should be held by it. (Acts 2:24)

    or, who shall descend into the abyss? (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead.) (Rom. 10:7)

    Christ, while in Hades those three days, not only appeared in Paradise but also went to Sheol to preach the good news of the gospel to the souls of the dead there, that they should believe so that their spirits would be made alive unto them at the judgment.

    knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death no more hath dominion or him. (Rom. 6:91)

    For to this end Christ died and lived again, that he might be Lord of both the dead and living. (Rom. 14:9)

    and the Living one; and I was dead, and behold, I am alive for evermore, and I have the keys of death and of Hades. (Rev. 1:18)

    By Christ's Resurrection, He achieved the authority (keys) over death and Hades, taking this power away from Satan, who legally had it until then. Thus it is that Satan does not have the key to the bottomless pit in Revelation 9:1, but must be given it.

    Sing, 0 ye heavens, for Jehovah hath done it; shout, ye lower parts of the earth ... Jehovah hath redeemed Jacob, and will glorify himself in Israel. (Isa. 44:23)

    But as for me I know that my Redeemer liveth, And at last he will stand up upon the earth: and after my skin, even this body, is destroyed, Then without my flesh shall I see God: (Job 19:25‑26).

    ... and at that time thy people shall be delivered. Every one that shall be found written in the book. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame, and everlasting contempt. (Dan. 12:2)


    Marvel not at this for the hour cometh, in which all that are in the tombs shall hear his voice, and shall come forth; they that have done good unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of judgment. (John 6:28‑29)

    and the tombs were opened; and many bodies of the saints that had fallen asleep were raised; and coming forth out of the tombs after his resurrection they entered into the holy city and appeared unto many. (Matt. 27:52‑53)

    The Spirit of the Lord Jehovah is upon me; because Jehovah hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the broken‑hearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the openings of the prison to them that are bound; (Isa. 61:1)

    Whereforth he saith, when he ascended on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. (Now this, He ascended, what is but that he also descended into the lower parts of the earth? (Eph. 4:8‑9)

    ... To him that overcometh, to him will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the Paradise of God. (Rev. 2:71

    I know a man in Christ, fourteen years ago (whether in the body, I know not; or whether I know not; or whether out of the body, I know not; God knoweth), such a one caught up even to the third heaven. And I know such a man (whether in the body or apart from the body, I know not; God knoweth), how that he was caught up into Paradise ... (2 Cor. 12:2‑4).

    For David ascended not into the heavens ... (Acts 2:34)

    According to the original Greek of 2 Corinthians 12:2‑4, Paul was caught up to the third heaven, but he was caught into (not up into) Paradise. Notice also that his being caught up to heaven and his being caught into Paradise are recorded as two separate instances of the same experience. Both these instances occurred at the time of his regeneration. That the Paradise where the believers are being kept is not in heaven (then or now) is shown by this being recorded as two separate instances. Otherwise Paul would have stated that he was caught up to Paradise in the third heaven. (The first heaven is the atmosphere of our planet, the second heaven is the space of stars, and the third heaven is the spiritual heaven of God.) That Paradise, the keeping place for believers, is still in the earth is confirmed by Acts 2:34, which tells us that David, even after the ascension of Christ, had not ascended to heaven. There are two Paradises, therefore: one, the earthly Edenic level of Hades, and the other, a heavenly Paradise of God in the third (spiritual) heaven.

    It is my opinion that the tombs opening, etc., was only a temporary resurrection (a sneak preview, as it were) of the bodies of the saints given as a sign to God's people in Jerusalem to further try to bring them to repentance. The actual physical resurrection of the bodies of the saints, both Old and New Testament, does not occur until right before Christ's return to the earth. The souls of New Testament believers who fall asleep are also kept in Paradise until the Lord sets up His judgment seat.

    By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and he was not found, because God translated him: for he hath had witness borne to him that before his translation he had been well‑pleasing unto God: (Heb. 11:5)

    And it came to pass, when Jehovah would take up Elijah by a whirlwind into heaven…(2 Kings 2:1)

    These were some of the exceptions to the rule, who were caught up directly to heaven without seeing death rather than dying and being kept in Hades. We will see why this was so later on in the book (Chapter Nine).

    For as the body apart from the spirit is dead. (James 2:26)

    And it came to pass, as her soul was departing (for she died)…(Gen. 36:18).

    For the word of God is living, and active, and sharper than any two‑edged word, and piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit . . . (Heb. 4:12)

    ... because man goeth to his everlasting home, and the mourners go about the streets: before the silver cord is snapped asunder . . . (Eccles. 12:5‑6)

    Is not their tent‑cord plucked up within them? They die, and that without wisdom. (Job 4:21)

    And her spirit returned, and she rose up immediately: and he commanded that something be given her to eat. (Luk 8:55)

    And he stretched upon the child three times, and cried unto Jehovah, and said, O Jehovah my God, I pray thee, let this child's soul come into him again. And Jehovah hearkened unto the voice of Elijah; and the soul of the child came into him again, and he revived. (1 Kings 17:21‑22)

    … being borne down by his sleep he fell down from the third story, and was taken up dead. And Paul went down, and fell on him, and embracing him said, Make ye no ado; for his life is in him. (Acts 20:9‑10)

    There is a "cord" that connects and binds the soul‑spirit to the physical body of the individual that it belongs to. Ordinarily, at the time of physical death, this cord is severed and the soul‑spirit goes to whichever keeping place is appropriate to the life that that person led in the flesh. However, sometimes this does not immediately occur and the person is able to be brought back to life. This has occurred not only in these biblical instances but also up to the present. There is only one logical reason to explain this: God must so love and desire that these people become His children by believing in Christ that He has given them the most final of chances. A word of warning: direct knowledge in this life of the next is expressly forbidden by God‑ any and all impressions obtained by these people while medically dead are almost certainly deceptive.


    Amazon.com: 9781641407922
     
  11. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member

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    Death is capitalized in Rev.6:8 and we're even told it's a name. That is just another title for Satan; he has many.

    Hell follows with him...

    Rev 12:7-9
    7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
    8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
    9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
    KJV

    Rev 16:12-14
    12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
    13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
    14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
    KJV

    Rev 9:14-19
    14 Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.
    15 And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.
    16 And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them.
    17 And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.
    18 By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.
    19 For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt.
    KJV
     
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