Question - Standing before God

[mjrhealth]

The bible says,

1Co 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
1Co 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

so how is it, that even now, men and woman with sinful flesh can stand before God at His throne.

When you understand this one the troubles with sin will be less of an issue.

 

[Invisibilis]

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.

To be in front of God, or Truth, ALL our veils of denial of the truth will fall away. All untruths (the veils) become invalid, and we will know it, for it was us who created them. Everything, other than the truth, we thought was of value, suddenly disappears. All our defenses become pointless and our truth, whatever there is, will be known. Not only that, but we become still and speechless. Any question we may have had beforehand have already been answered. The only thing left to do is to give back to God, by expressing whatever truth that is in us, as unconditional love for God. This would be our final act of faith, of unreserved acceptance, of our fate.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

The bible says,

1Co 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
1Co 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

so how is it, that even now, men and woman with sinful flesh can stand before God at His throne.

When you understand this one the troubles with sin will be less of an issue.

"so how is it, that even now, men and woman with sinful flesh can stand before God at His throne."

James 1:18 KJV
[18] Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

of his own will...
Not our will
But his will be done.

There is only one way to stand before God. Through Jesus Christ. One must be born again, born Spirit. Where the Spirit is: there is no more sin.

1 Corinthians 6:11 KJV
[11] And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

 

[Invisibilis]

"so how is it, that even now, men and woman with sinful flesh can stand before God at His throne."
James 1:18 KJV
[18] Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
of his own will...
Not our will
But his will be done.
There is only one way to stand before God. Through Jesus Christ. One must be born again, born Spirit. Where the Spirit is: there is no more sin.
1 Corinthians 6:11 KJV
[11] And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Not wishing to debate OSAS believers, there is the view that even those saved get judged.

Romans 14:8-12 If we live, we live for the Lord; and if we die, we die for the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. 9. For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living. 10. You, then, why do you judge your brother or sister? Or why do you treat them with contempt? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat. 11. It is written: "As surely as I live, says the Lord, every knee will bow before Me; every tongue will confess to God." 12. So then, each of us will give an account of ourselves to God.

Revelation 22:12 "Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Not wishing to debate OSAS believers, there is the view that even those saved get judged.

Romans 14:8-12 If we live, we live for the Lord; and if we die, we die for the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. 9. For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living. 10. You, then, why do you judge your brother or sister? Or why do you treat them with contempt? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat. 11. It is written: "As surely as I live, says the Lord, every knee will bow before Me; every tongue will confess to God." 12. So then, each of us will give an account of ourselves to God.

Revelation 22:12 "Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done.

I appreciate the no debate. It's my belief (until He shows otherwise) that we will either be judged by works of the Spirit or by works of the flesh. No works of the Spirit equals no Spirit. No life. Still dead in trespasses.

And no; I do not believe you can be "unborn" of God once it is God's will to "begat" us by the word of truth(which is Christ).

Greek: ἀποκυέω
Transliteration: apokueō
Pronunciation: ap-ok-oo-eh'o
Definition: From G575 and the base of G2949; to breed forth that is (by transformation) to generate (figuratively): - beget bring forth.
KJV Usage: bring forth (1x), begat (1x).

 

[Helen]

Not wishing to debate OSAS believers, there is the view that even those saved get judged.

Romans 14:8-12 If we live, we live for the Lord; and if we die, we die for the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. 9. For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living. 10. You, then, why do you judge your brother or sister? Or why do you treat them with contempt? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat. 11. It is written: "As surely as I live, says the Lord, every knee will bow before Me; every tongue will confess to God." 12. So then, each of us will give an account of ourselves to God.

Revelation 22:12 "Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done.

Amen...I am a believer in OSAS...yet undeniably everyone's works will be tried or which sort it is.
The confusion come in when people muddle salvation which is SURE and solid...and our works , ....which will be tested by fire. Two very different things.
=========
@mjrhealth
If the sons of and Satan could "stand before God" ( Job) then why not?
As believers we know that when "we" stand before God and come before the throne of grace boldly....we are hidden in Christ.
As you probably know by now...I personally believe that God's plan from the beginning was for all man...

You quoted in the OP 1Co 6:9 "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God?"

I believe that is where the break come between believers and those who are not yet. The Inheritance goes to the First born sons. The overcomer's the mature sons. But, that is an aside..lol
Every man....in his own order... Heaven is not going to be just one happy-clappy blob!! There are as we see in scripture positions and rewards. Shown in the scripture through parables and we see James and John asking if they could have the privilege of being on His right and left hand. ( hmm... what of David, Paul, Abraham etc etc )

My two cents.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

The confusion come in when people muddle salvation which is SURE and solid...and our works , ....which will be tested by fire. Two very different things.

Tested by fire? What is the fire?

 

[Invisibilis]

I appreciate the no debate. It's my belief (until He shows otherwise) that we will either be judged by works of the Spirit or by works of the flesh. No works of the Spirit equals no Spirit. No life. Still dead in trespasses.

And no; I do not believe you can be "unborn" of God once it is God's will to "begat" us by the word of truth(which is Christ).

Greek: ἀποκυέω
Transliteration: apokueō
Pronunciation: ap-ok-oo-eh'o
Definition: From G575 and the base of G2949; to breed forth that is (by transformation) to generate (figuratively): - beget bring forth.
KJV Usage: bring forth (1x), begat (1x).

Only what is true in us is worthy of Truth. Anything else is unrecognized, for it is not true or real.

Matthew 7:22-23 Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?' 23. Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Only what is true in us is worthy of Truth. Anything else is unrecognized, for it is not true or real.

Matthew 7:22-23 Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?' 23. Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

I ask again: what is the consuming fire?

What is burned?

What remains?

And where there is no Spirit: I never knew you. Workers of inquity...still living condemned under the mosaic law. The old covenant.

 

[bbyrd009]

There is only one way to stand before God. Through Jesus Christ. One must be born again, born Spirit. Where the Spirit is: there is no more sin.

1 Corinthians 6:11 KJV
[11] And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

ah, i guess this is how brand-new believers are led to believe that they cannot possibly sin lol
no confession needed, if no sin is recognized.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

ah, i guess this is how brand-new believers are led to believe that they cannot possibly sin lol
no confession needed, if no sin is recognized.

It is the total opposite. It is when you realize you can do no good of your own will. Sin is recognized.

James 4:9 KJV
[9] Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness.

 

[Dcopymope]

The bible says,

1Co 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
1Co 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

so how is it, that even now, men and woman with sinful flesh can stand before God at His throne.

When you understand this one the troubles with sin will be less of an issue.

I'm not understanding the point of this thread. Where did you got the idea that any of us are standing before God at all?

 

[Invisibilis]

Only what is true in us is worthy of Truth. Anything else is unrecognized, for it is not true or real.
Matthew 7:22-23 Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?' 23. Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

I ask again: what is the consuming fire?
What is burned?
What remains?
And where there is no Spirit: I never knew you. Workers of inquity...still living condemned under the mosaic law. The old covenant.

I got confused by your statement "I ask again..." for I do not see where you ask me the first time. However, I will answer your questions.
What is the consuming fire? God (Truth).
What is burned? Whatever is not true.
What remains? Truth.

I do not care if others do not feel any need for repentance of sins after becoming a believer in Christ. That is their choice. However, out of a clear conscience I always repent my fears/sins (moments of pride, self-righteousness, and all other behaviours that oppose humility). When I catch myself out I often say "Sorry God, I hope to do better next time". So what is wrong with that? Where is the sin in repentance?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I got confused by your statement "I ask again..." for I do not see where you ask me the first time. However, I will answer your questions.
What is the consuming fire? God (Truth).
What is burned? Whatever is not true.
What remains? Truth.

I do not care if others do not feel any need for repentance of sins after becoming a believer in Christ. That is their choice. However, out of a clear conscience I always repent my fears/sins (moments of pride, self-righteousness, and all other behaviours that oppose humility). When I catch myself out I often say "Sorry God, I hope to do better next time". So what is wrong with that? Where is the sin in repentance?

Repentance isn't wrong, I don't believe. The Spirit shows me new things all the time; sins from my past that haven't been acknowledged yet and also sins I still struggle with. I am in constant state of needing the Spirits guidance and strength daily. yes, I believe God treats me as a child of God based off Jesus Christ and His perfection and His righteousness and I can add nothing to it. Or take away from. I can't earn grace. But that doesn't mean I go around freely sinning and pretending I don't. It means I am able to look at others and have compassion, because, I am no better than them. Everything I receive of God is based off Jesus Christ's work. Not my own. I am in constant need of mercy.

 

[ScottA]

Not wishing to debate OSAS believers, there is the view that even those saved get judged.

Romans 14:8-12 If we live, we live for the Lord; and if we die, we die for the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. 9. For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living. 10. You, then, why do you judge your brother or sister? Or why do you treat them with contempt? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat. 11. It is written: "As surely as I live, says the Lord, every knee will bow before Me; every tongue will confess to God." 12. So then, each of us will give an account of ourselves to God.

Revelation 22:12 "Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done.

We give account even now. "Soon"...even then.

 

[mjrhealth]

I'm not understanding the point of this thread. Where did you got the idea that any of us are standing before God at all?

There are not many who would understand, because "church" has not being very good at selling Jesus to the masses. When I became a "christian", all I was ever told, was that Jesus died for my sins, something that many christians seem to struggle with, but what He and God did that day and at pentecost was far more, so much more, but i doubt you will ever learn about it in church,

To make it simple

Eph_2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

In simple terms, when a person truly comes to Christ, and receives Gods Spirit, His seed, He becomes a new creation in Christ, than that person is covered in the righteousness of Christ, which even now while we live when taken up by teh Spirit can do something that not even Moses could do, Look upon the face of God and

Gal_4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

I have being like many before Him, amazing experience.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

There are not many who would understand, because "church" has not being very good at selling Jesus to the masses. When I became a "christian", all I was ever told, was that Jesus died for my sins, something that many christians seem to struggle with, but what He and God did that day and at pentecost was far more, so much more, but i doubt you will ever learn about it in church,

To make it simple

Eph_2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

In simple terms, when a person truly comes to Christ, and receives Gods Spirit, His seed, He becomes a new creation in Christ, than that person is covered in the righteousness of Christ, which even now while we live when taken up by teh Spirit can do something that not even Moses could do, Look upon the face of God and

Gal_4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

I have being like many before Him, amazing experience.

Revelation 7:9-17 KJV
[9] After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; [10] And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb. [11] And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God, [12] Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen. [13] And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? [14] And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. [15] Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them. [16] They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. [17] For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

It is us. We are before the throne where He is. We are there, and here...ministering to the Lord, serving Him night and day in His temple.

Giving our testimony of Christ.

 

[Dcopymope]

There are not many who would understand, because "church" has not being very good at selling Jesus to the masses. When I became a "christian", all I was ever told, was that Jesus died for my sins, something that many christians seem to struggle with, but what He and God did that day and at pentecost was far more, so much more, but i doubt you will ever learn about it in church,

To make it simple

Eph_2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

In simple terms, when a person truly comes to Christ, and receives Gods Spirit, His seed, He becomes a new creation in Christ, than that person is covered in the righteousness of Christ, which even now while we live when taken up by teh Spirit can do something that not even Moses could do, Look upon the face of God and

Gal_4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

I have being like many before Him, amazing experience.

Well, by "standing before God", I thought you meant literally "looking upon the face of God" as in with your own two eyes, like Moses, Elijah and his 24 elders are in fact currently doing now, in heaven. Experiencing the presence of God in the spirit is one thing, but actually seeing God in all his glory in heaven is another thing entirely. This is why they are the only ones that can be called true witnesses (not counting Ezekiel who also saw God in all his glory in the form of a vision), who will set the record straight when the time comes, and ruin the anti-Christs parade. This is why I call them the party crashes, because that's exactly whats going to happen.........HA!!!!!

 

[bbyrd009]

It is the total opposite. It is when you realize you can do no good of your own will. Sin is recognized.

for you, maybe, and no doubt for many others i guess, but this does not describe all, as we can note those with a version of your understanding, who do not recognize their sin, right? And, regardless of characterizations that seem to be to the contrary, i forgive them of my own free will, at least i do now.

ha ok, i still am bad at that, but i am getting better at it, let's say.

 

[bbyrd009]

When I catch myself out I often say "Sorry God, I hope to do better next time".

you might insert "Father" in there next time, and note how uncomfortable it is/might be, at first anyway.

So what is wrong with that? Where is the sin in repentance?

ha i guess as sure as "imitation is the sincerest form of flattery," rebound is the sincerest form of confession...but strictly playing DA here, you could confess your moments of pride/etc to those actually offended, although in practice this is often...impractical, and i guess rebound will be appreciated anyway. I'm noting in those situations that the subject usually rolls around again with the same players, and these can be opportunities for confession, something as simple as "last time this came up i said something ignorant to Nancy, but i realize now that ______." Of course i usually only realize this in bed that night, later lol.