1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured Questions by Many

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by Mayflower, Nov 28, 2018.

  1. Mayflower

    Mayflower Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,127
    Likes Received:
    1,193
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    There are hard questions my sister asks I realize I still do not know how to answer. I did the best I can. I've heard them before.

    1) Why does God send "good" people to Hell? She doesn't believe He does.

    - I answered that God flooded the earth in the days of Noah, because of the wickedness in the hearts of men. This is God's justice. He promised not to flood the earth again, because He is merciful. I don't know why this came to mind, but it did, and she is conservative Jewish, so I was thinking about the OT.

    I said that also in a court, if someone murders your mom and that person lists all the good things they did, would it be just for there to be no consequence?

    The other hard question I was unsure to answer is:

    2) what about those who die before hearing about Jesus. Do they go to Hell.

    I couldn't answer this and was honest with her. I don't know that answer nor how to answer.

    Insight? I know some don't believe in Hell. Are these questions why? How would you answer?
     
    Nancy likes this.
  2. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,618
    Likes Received:
    1,825
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Canada
    Actually they send themselves to Hell.
    MARK 16
    15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
    16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.


    ROMANS 1
    19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
    20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:


     
    Mayflower likes this.
  3. Nancy

    Nancy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,169
    Likes Received:
    3,084
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Welcome back @Mayflower ! I hope you had a nice Thanksgiving.
    Huh, always the tough questions asked by one who will not be convinced by N.T.scripture.
    Some would answer the 1st question saying "God sends no body to Hell, they send themselves by their choice" I myself am not settled on the "hell" issue.
    Question #2- Since God is just, my belief is that if a person will be judged on the basis of what they know. I tend to see "conscience" involved in this, maybe?
     
    "ByGrace" and Mayflower like this.
  4. Mayflower

    Mayflower Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,127
    Likes Received:
    1,193
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    These are awesome verses to know and share when the conversation comes up again. Thanks!
     
  5. Deborah_

    Deborah_ Active Member

    Messages:
    323
    Likes Received:
    140
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    We will go to Hell because we are, at heart, rebels against God and don't want to acknowledge His authority over us. How 'good' or 'bad' we are is irrelevant. Only by acknowledging our sin and throwing ourselves upon God's mercy can we escape this fate, because of what Jesus has done (He suffered the punishment of Hell on our behalf).

    Question 2 is much harder to answer because the Bible doesn't give us the answer. Pre-Christian era Jews could be saved, like Abraham, by faith in God. But what about those who have never heard of the true God? There are hints that they may be judged on their compassion towards the weak (Matthew 25:31-46) - but it's by no means certain that the parable should be interpreted in that way. Other religions do not lead to salvation (which is only through Christ), but it may be possible (I'm only speculating here) that an individual might work out for themselves that they can't earn God's favour and must rely on His mercy. To sum up, I would say that we can't assume that all those who have never heard of Jesus will end up in Hell, but most of them will - but sadly there's no such question mark over those who have heard and yet refuse to believe.
     
  6. Stranger

    Stranger Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,179
    Likes Received:
    1,759
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    We must first understand that with God, there are no 'good' people. We view it in light of what we see in good or bad people. But you take a so called good man, and place him next to God, or next to God's Son, Jesus Christ, and there is nothing good in him. What we do know is that there is no injustice with God. All who go to hell, go because they deserve it.

    All men have the knowledge of God in their being as they were created that way. (Rom. 1:19-20). God sees the heart and knows the person. Those who die having never heard the gospel, God will judge knowing their heart towards Him. Had they heard the gospel, they would have believed it. Or they would not have believed it. He knows.

    Stranger
     
    Nancy likes this.
  7. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,546
    Likes Received:
    1,514
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Greetings sister, and welcome back!

    Both questions are based on assumptions. The "good" person to her is probably someone who is nice to other people, doesn't break any laws, is a good parent, etc. The problem there is this: What sort of "good" person rejects the very God who created them, and made all the things they enjoy in life possible? Such a person is good only in their own eyes.

    The assumption with the second question is this: She is assuming that God somehow doesn't know already who will believe and who will not, and this is clearly not the case from scripture. The Lord was very specific about where he sent the apostles to preach the gospel (see Acts 16:6-10), and this is because He knew in advance who would be most receptive to it, as is clear from Acts 16:9. He knows very well who on this earth will receive Him and who is not at all disposed to Him, and just because some do not have the gospel preached to them does not mean God somehow overlooked them and was being unfair. If they had any aptitude to believe at all, you can rest assured God would have made certain that the gospel was presented to them.
     
    Nancy likes this.
  8. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,649
    Likes Received:
    3,165
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Canada
    The confusion comes from a false comparison of heaven and hell. It is heaven and earth. Hell is one of 4 possible outcomes...and is for the wicked.

    Who is determining what is good?

    Not everyone who is saved is a saint. The saints will rule over the righteous in the next age. Who populates the world to come? The meek, the downtrodden, the suffering, the fatherless the oppressed of this world. Read the Beatitudes again with this in mind.

    God is merciful. :)
     
    Nancy, "ByGrace", Mayflower and 2 others like this.
  9. Acolyte

    Acolyte Member

    Messages:
    67
    Likes Received:
    94
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    On the second, you could maybe explain the 1000 year reign of Jesus. It will be the only place to hear the "good news" and be saved before judgement. Jesus will make sure all will hear. :)
     
  10. Taken

    Taken Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,139
    Likes Received:
    975
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States

    The answer is:

    She has determined what she believes "is good", by her standards, principles and understanding.

    Gods standards, principles, and understanding, is not the same as mankinds.

    There are MANY, who BELIEVE in the POWER of "A" God...{which many a men, FIND is "good"}

    ... but that do not ACCEPT THEE;
    Lord God Almighty.

    God Himself knows the "difference".

    OR....there is consideration of ANOTHER FACT.

    BEFORE the Word of God was manifested IN THE FLESH....

    HELL existed. HELL, had a DIVISION...

    ONE SIDE, was comfort, Paradise, Keeping the LIVING SOULS of men, who had bodily died....
    Who Believed IN Thee God, whose SOULS were Saved.

    THE OTHER SIDE, was discomfort, Torment, Keeping the LIVING SOULS of men, who had bodily died...
    Who Rejected God, Whose SOULS were NOT Saved.

    So, Yes, there was a TIME, that applied to Ancient men, when Living Souls of "FAITHFUL" men WERE in Hell, IN COMFORT.

    ARE there STILL living souls IN Hell, of MEN, who did not believe, when their body was alive, IN THEE God? Yes.

    ARE there STILL living souls IN Hell, (in Comfort) of MEN who Believed, when their body was alive, in God, but Not Christ Jesus?
    (Scripture indicates that is LIKELY.)

    ARE there living souls IN HELL, of MEN who Believed, when their body was alive, in God and Christ Jesus? No.
    Those Living souls, depart out of their dead bodies and go to heaven, to WAIT, for their bodies to be raised in Glory.

    So in short the question IS;
    Have or Do good men go to Hell?

    Sure.

    The answer IS;
    Bodies are not buried in Hell.
    Living Souls, depart out of dead bodies.
    A Saved Departed Soul, is always IN Comfort, regardless of Where it is.
    An UN-saved Departed Soul, is always IN Agony, and definitely IN Hell.


    While that is true...
    It is more about the PURPOSE of HELL.

    There is the WHOLE of a MAN, to consider.
    The WHOLE of a MAN, is ...
    Body, Soul, Spirit.

    The WHOLE of a Natural born man IS born in Sin (against God), commits Sin (against God).

    Because SIN "IS" Against God, it is ONLY God Himself, WHO CAN, forgive, save, restore, quicken a Natural Born Man.

    It is EVERY "part" of the WHOLE of man, that God "considers"....IF AND WHEN the man CHOOSES, to BECOME, forgiven and made WHOLE, "BY GOD"....or not.

    IF a man DOES NOT BELIEVE IN GOD....
    Why would God, "consider" making WHOLE, "something (ie a man)", who does not Believe in God? He doesn't.

    Bottom line is..."IF" a man does not Believe IN GOD....that man (WHOLLY, body, soul, spirit) will eventually BECOME, non-existent to God.

    That is Gods "consequence" for Disbelief.

    Gods "consequence" FOR BELIEF, IS that He Attends to the WHOLE of the man;
    Body, Soul and Spirit.
    He Kills the OLD natural Body...
    ...and SHALL RAISE a NEW Glorious Body
    He Saves the Corrupt Soul, by restoring it, to
    ...good.
    He Quickens (rebirths the OLD spirit, which came to the man, from a mans Seed), to Become reborn, FROM HIS SEED.

    Those men WHO choose to RECEIVE....^ that consequence....."AFTER they DIE Bodily"...DO SO, BY BELIEVING IN THEE "Almighty God"...(ie Heavenly God and Holy Spirit).
    (These are they, who ARE mostly Jews, who remained Under the Law)

    Those men WHO choose to RECEIVE....that consequence....."BEFORE they DIE Bodily"...DO so, By BELIEVING IN THEE
    "Lord God Almighty"...(ie Son, Father & Holy Spirit).
    (These are they, who ARE of Christs Church)

    Every part of a Natural man, and the LIFE IN every part of a Natural man, shall be addressed By God; Meaning...

    Body, shall be addressed, and the life OF the Body, which is BLOOD.

    Soul, shall be addressed, and the life OF the Soul, which is Gods BREATH.

    Spirit, shall be addressed, and the life OF the Spirit, which FOR SOME, is Gods Spirit of Truth, and for others it is their "natural worldly truth".

    God Bless,
    Taken
     
    Mayflower likes this.
  11. Taken

    Taken Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,139
    Likes Received:
    975
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Simply I would say;

    Those who have not heard...IS a broad statement.

    Who are these People who have not Heard, that such a Question of wondering arises?

    Like in all things, Knowlege is given, and individuals either choose to accept and believe the knowledge or not.

    In the beginning, Men personally KNEW their fathers, grand fathers, great grand fathers, great great grand fathers, great great great grand fathers....centuries of men teaching their own descendants ABOUT God, His Word, His Laws, His Statutes, His Precepts.
    (And as the population of the World grew, so also did those men Spread out among the Earth).

    Today many do not even know their fathers, or receive Knowledge from their fathers.

    Today TEACHERS roam the earth, Spreading the Word of God. So, WHO are these people who HAVE NOT HEARD?

    The BABIES naturally born? Those who CAN hear, but do not comprehend WHAT they are hearing? Are they excepted, from accountability for their inability to know, understand, reason, what a God is, let alone Who God is?
    I say yes, they are Excepted, and should they physically DIE, as a babe, a young child, The Lord Himself knows their heart, and contends with their Salvation.

    I would say the same applies to A person naturally born, with a mental or physical defect, whose is incapable of hearing, learning, understanding or reasoning, what a God is, let alone Who God is.
    IOW, one incapable of deciphering between good and evil.

    However a person WHO is naturally born...
    Heard, Seen, Experienced, His Works, His Earth, His Sky's, His Claims, He is the Creator and Maker of ALL things, and they choose to Reject Him...
    For them there is NO EXCUSE.

    So, to your friend who would like an answer, to those who have not heard...I would ask your friend to IDENTIFY any such Individual, so a proper answer That applies specifically To such individual Person, could be addressed.

    Rom 1:20
    For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

    Deut 1:39
    Moreover your little ones, which ye said should be a prey, and your children, which in that day had no knowledge between good and evil, they shall go in thither, and unto them will I give it, and they shall possess it.

    God Bless,
    Taken
     
    Nancy and Mayflower like this.
  12. Willie T

    Willie T Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,170
    Likes Received:
    2,484
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Enoch answered both questions perfectly. The answers were right there in the Bible.
     
    Nancy, Enoch111 and Mayflower like this.
  13. icxn

    icxn Member

    Messages:
    41
    Likes Received:
    53
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Imo the answer depends on the disposition of the person listening. If your sister is struggling with God’s judgements, like a fish trying to be escape capture, pulling the reel with verses that speak of the punishment of sinners, risks breaking the line. In that case you should rather let go of the reel by speaking of God’s long suffering towards sinners and that He not only does not send good (not reason to assume this negatively) people to Hell, but He sends bad people to Heaven when they show a little repentance (ex. thief on the cross). The line of course is God’s long suffering, the reel His great love for mankind that lowered the bait, Christ the worm (Psalms 22:6), on the hook of the Cross and drew us out of the sinful ways of this life, the sea.
     
    Acolyte, Nancy, Episkopos and 2 others like this.
  14. "ByGrace"

    "ByGrace" Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    9,052
    Likes Received:
    9,797
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Canada
    I hope you told her that HE DOESN'T!! :)

    Man is responsible for his own choices,
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2018
  15. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

    Messages:
    19,470
    Likes Received:
    5,774
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States Minor Outlying Islands
    ok but bear in mind that Jesus never meant to infer "hell" there, but rather "Gehenna" ok. which is on earth.

    2we do not yet know what we will become
    20all go to the same place
    19you and your sons will be here with me
     
    "ByGrace" and Mayflower like this.
  16. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

    Messages:
    19,470
    Likes Received:
    5,774
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States Minor Outlying Islands
    sweet :)
     
    Nancy and Mayflower like this.
  17. Frank Lee

    Frank Lee Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,309
    Likes Received:
    2,388
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    What is considered good by men is a abomination to God.

    As to number 1:

    Micah 7:4 KJVS
    The best of them is as a brier: the most upright is sharper than a thorn hedge: the day of thy watchmen and thy visitation cometh; now shall be their perplexity.

    Romans 3:10-12 KJVS
    As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
    [11] There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
    [12] They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

    Ecclesiastes 7:20 KJVS
    For there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not.

    As for number 2, those that haven't heard of Jesus. Why is it our business what happens to them? Do I involve myself in questions too large for me? David did not.


    Psalm 131:1 KJVS
    Lord , my heart is not haughty, nor mine eyes lofty: neither do I exercise myself in great matters, or in things too high for me.

    Picking up burdens too heavy to carry is unwise to say the least. There is zero peace in pursuing things that are best left with God. It's none of our business what happens to them. Amen

    The best that may be said is that they are a law unto themselves as says the word.


    Romans 2:14-15 KJVS
    For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
    [15] Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)

    Deuteronomy 29:29 KJVS
    The secret things belong unto the Lord our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.

     
    Mayflower likes this.
  18. Mayflower

    Mayflower Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,127
    Likes Received:
    1,193
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Romans 2 helps me personally. With Jewish family I have questioned if since He made that covenant with the Jews and gave them those laws, if these are His ways. I am glad I am not under those 600 plus laws, but like the ten commandments, I follow them because I love God. Would following some of these others laws of the OT show I love God and want to follow His ways also. Or are the others man made laws, and the ten commandments are the laws He wants us to focus on.

    They were good questions to think about. It was actually nice to talk with her, because she wouldn't really hear me out before she married and converted to Judaism. Then she started reading God's Word- The Tanach anyhow. She told me she hasn't excluded Christ as the Messiah. She just didn't know yet. I asked her if she understood why I was concerned, because I do believe under the New Covenant that only by Christ are we saved.
     
    "ByGrace", Nancy and bbyrd009 like this.
  19. Frank Lee

    Frank Lee Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,309
    Likes Received:
    2,388
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    It's wonderful to read all the Bible for its all one. OT and NT. We just have to be vigilent not to put ourselves under law and be self convinced that we can only be justified if we do "just right".

    I've observed others that put burdens on themselves not required by our Lord. No matter how we succeed or fail in our own estimation it is still grace and grace alone that saves us for the just shall live by faith.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2018
    Mayflower likes this.
  20. farouk

    farouk Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,171
    Likes Received:
    886
    Ephesians 2.8-9 indeed... :)
     
    Mayflower likes this.
Loading...