Questions; Jesus, Peter, and the keys

[theefaith]

Questions about Jesus, Peter, and the keys!

How can Jesus be the builder and the church being built?

If Christ is the rock:

1) Why does Christ even mention Peter?

2) Why did Christ change Peter’s name? (Indicating an office or ministry, similar to Abram & Jacob)

3) Why did Christ give the keys to Peter? (and only to Peter) keys of jurisdictional authority. (Refer to Isa 22:21-22)

4) Why does Christ identify peter with himself! Matt 17:27
Where is the coin for the other apostles?

5) Why is Peter commanded to feed Christ’s sheep (the other apostles) and the lambs? (The people)
Jn 21:17

If Peter’s confession is the rock:

1) How do you govern the church and administer the kingdom with a confession?

2) How do you give jurisdictional authority to a confession? (Keys of the kingdom)

3) How do you give a confession the power to bind and loose?

 

[Saint of God]

Questions about Jesus, Peter, and the keys!

How can Jesus be the builder and the church being built?

If Christ is the rock:

Jesus is the builder, church means congregation... Christ is the rock/ head cornerstone, that is the first stone laid to start the foundation of a building.

1) Why does Christ even mention Peter?

You cannot have a building with only one stone.

2) Why did Christ change Peter’s name? (Indicating an office or ministry, similar to Abram & Jacob)

Why are you making that claim?
Jesus explained why he did what he did...
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

3) Why did Christ give the keys to Peter? (and only to Peter) keys of jurisdictional authority. (Refer to Isa 22:21-22)

You are assuming that only Peter gets the keys...Any person who believes like peter Gets the keys also...
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

4) Why does Christ identify peter with himself! Matt 17:27
Where is the coin for the other apostles?

What other apostles?
24 And when they were come to Capernaum, they that received tribute money came to Peter, and said, Doth not your master pay tribute?
They did not ask for tribute money for anyone else did they?
27 Notwithstanding, lest we should offend them, go thou to the sea, and cast an hook, and take up the fish that first cometh up; and when thou hast opened his mouth, thou shalt find a piece of money: that take, and give unto them for me and thee.

5) Why is Peter commanded to feed Christ’s sheep (the other apostles) and the lambs? (The people)
Jn 21:17

You are making assumptions that Peter himself was not a sheep. Peter is given a leadership role.

If Peter’s confession is the rock:

Peter's faith is the rock

1) How do you govern the church and administer the kingdom with a confession?

Why are you assuming these things...
Matthew 18:4
Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

2) How do you give jurisdictional authority to a confession? (Keys of the kingdom)

3) How do you give a confession the power to bind and loose?

Where does the scripture say that?
19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
This is a simple explanation of the power a believer has.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Jesus is the builder, church means congregation... Christ is the rock/ head cornerstone, that is the first stone laid to start the foundation of a building.

You cannot have a building with only one stone.

Why are you making that claim?
Jesus explained why he did what he did...
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

You are assuming that only Peter gets the keys...Any person who believes like peter Gets the keys also...
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

What other apostles?
24 And when they were come to Capernaum, they that received tribute money came to Peter, and said, Doth not your master pay tribute?
They did not ask for tribute money for anyone else did they?
27 Notwithstanding, lest we should offend them, go thou to the sea, and cast an hook, and take up the fish that first cometh up; and when thou hast opened his mouth, thou shalt find a piece of money: that take, and give unto them for me and thee.


You are making assumptions that Peter himself was not a sheep. Peter is given a leadership role.

Peter's faith is the rock

Why are you assuming these things...
Matthew 18:4
Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

Where does the scripture say that?
19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
This is a simple explanation of the power a believer has.

No - Peter (Cephas ) is the Rock.

Jesus and His Apostles spole Aramaic to one another. Jesus didn't tell a guy named "Peter" that he was a Rosk. He told Simon bar Jonah that he was "Kepha", which simply means "Rock" in Aramaic. Hr said:
Matt. 16:17-19
Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. And I tell you, you are Peter (Kapha), and on this rock (Kepha) I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

In the original Aramaic, there is NO differentiation between "Petros/Petra or Peter/Rock. Thisis why Paul refers to him as "Cephas" in his letters, whoich is a Greek transliteation of the Aramaic, "Kepha".

As for giving him the Keys to the Kingdom of Heaven with the power to bind and loose - this is exclusive to Peter and is NOT given to "all believers".
This verse is an almost verbatim fulfillment of Isaiah 22 where God gives the Keys to the House of Israel to Eliakim:
Isaiah 20:20-22
In that day I will call my servant Eliakim the son of Hilkiah, and I will clothe him with your robe, and will bind your sash on him, and will commit your authority to his hand. And he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem and to the house of Judah. And I will place on his shoulder the key of the house of David. He shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.

Matt. 16:19
I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

Another instance of OT Type and NT Fulfillment.
Peter's confession can be considered the Rpck only in a secondary sense.
Primarily, ir is Peter himself.

 

[Saint of God]

No - Peter (Cephas ) is the Rock.

Jesus and His Apostles spole Aramaic to one another. Jesus didn't tell a guy named "Peter" that he was a Rosk. He told Simon bar Jonah that he was "Kepha", which simply means "Rock" in Aramaic. Hr said:
Matt. 16:17-19
Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. And I tell you, you are Peter (Kapha), and on this rock (Kepha) I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

In the original Aramaic, there is NO differentiation between "Petros/Petra or Peter/Rock. Thisis why Paul refers to him as "Cephas" in his letters, whoich is a Greek transliteation of the Aramaic, "Kepha".

As for giving him the Keys to the Kingdom of Heaven with the power to bind and loose - this is exclusive to Peter and is NOT given to "all believers".
This verse is an almost verbatim fulfillment of Isaiah 22 where God gives the Keys to the House of Israel to Eliakim:
Isaiah 20:20-22
In that day I will call my servant Eliakim the son of Hilkiah, and I will clothe him with your robe, and will bind your sash on him, and will commit your authority to his hand. And he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem and to the house of Judah. And I will place on his shoulder the key of the house of David. He shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.

Matt. 16:19
I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

Another instance of OT Type and NT Fulfillment.
Peter's confession can be considered the Rpck only in a secondary sense.
Primarily, ir is Peter himself.

1 Corinthians 10:4
And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

 

[BreadOfLife]

1 Corinthians 10:4
And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

Yes, Jesus IS called, "Rock" in Scripture - but He's NOT the only onne.

As I already pointed out in post #3 - Peter (Cephas ) is also called "Rock" (Kepha) n Matt. 16:18.
Wen we read the Old Testament - we find that Abraham is ALSO referred to as "The Rock":
Isaiah 51:1-2
Give ear to me, you that follow that which is just, and you that seek the Lord: look unto the rock whence you are hewn, and to the hole of the pit from which you are dug out. Look unto Abraham your father, and to Sara that bore you: for I called him alone, and blessed him, and multiplied him.

Cherry-picking verses doesn't get you anywhere.
Serious Scripture study is about CONTEXT . . .

 

[Saint of God]

Yes, Jesus IS called, "Rock" in Scripture - but He's NOT the only onne.

As I already pointed out in post #3 - Peter (Cephas ) is also called "Rock" (Kepha) n Matt. 16:18.
Wen we read the Old Testament - we find that Abraham is ALSO referred to as "The Rock":
Isaiah 51:1-2
Give ear to me, you that follow that which is just, and you that seek the Lord: look unto the rock whence you are hewn, and to the hole of the pit from which you are dug out. Look unto Abraham your father, and to Sara that bore you: for I called him alone, and blessed him, and multiplied him.

Is Peter a greater rock than Jesus? Is Abraham a greater rock than Jesus? Unless you can show that Jesus answers to any of those, it must be that Jesus is the head rock.
1 Peter 2:7
Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,

Cherry-picking verses doesn't get you anywhere.
Serious Scripture study is about CONTEXT . . .

Yet you are cherry-picking verses... therefore YOU didn't get anywhere..

 

[Enoch111]

Why does Christ even mention Peter?

God had chosen impetuous Peter to eventually become a very stable and solid apostle. Hence Peter (Petros = Kepha = Cephas = little rock or stone) was chosen to be the apostle to the Jews (and Paul as apostle to the Gentiles). Peter's confession of faith given by revelation was built on the Rock who is Christ. So the metaphorical "keys" given to Peter were in fact the keys of the Gospel. Since "keys" is plural, Peter first preached the Gospel to the Jews at Pentecost and then to the Gentiles in the house of Cornelius. But Peter did not preach the Gospel in Rome, and is not even mentioned by Paul in the epistle to the Romans.

Now if you still want to hold on to the claptrap about Peter and the Papacy, you can certainly do so, but the Bible gives you no support. Only legends manufactured by the Catholic Church.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Is Peter a greater rock than Jesus? Is Abraham a greater rock than Jesus? Unless you can show that Jesus answers to any of those, it must be that Jesus is the head rock.
1 Peter 2:7
Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,

Who said anything about Peter or Abraham being "greater" than Jesus??
I simly pointed to the fact that hey are BOTH referred to as "Rosk" in the Scriptures as is Jesus.

Jesus blessing on on Peter is THREEfold:
1. And Jesus answered him, “Blessed are YOU, Simon Bar-Jonah! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven.
2. And I tell YOU, you are Peter (Kepha), and on this rock (Kepha) I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
3. I will give YOU the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever YOU bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever YOU loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

YOUR earlier post implied that Jesus is the ONLY one called "Rock" in the Scriptures - and that is just false. Peter is the "Rock" (kepha) of Matt. 16:18 - and there is NO getting around this fact.

Yet you are cherry-picking verses... therefore YOU didn't get anywhere..

How did I cherry-pick??
I showed multiple verses of people being called "Rock" other than Jesus.

Do you even unbderstand what "cherry-picking" means??

Here are over a DOZEN quotes from several highlt-regarded Protestant scholars on Matt. 16:18 - and Peter, the "Rock":
William Hendriksen
member of the Reformed Christian Church
Professor of New Testament Literature at Calvin Seminary
The meaning is, ‘You are Peter, that is Rock, and upon this rock, that is, on you, Peter I will build my church”Our Lord, speaking Aramaic, probably said, ‘And I say to you, you are Kepha, and on this kepha I will build my church”Jesus, then, is promising Peter that he is going to build his church on him! I accept this view.
New Testament Commentary: Exposition of the Gospel According to Matthew
(Grand Rapids, MI: Baker, 1973), page 647
JPK page 14

Gerhard Maier
leading conservative evangelical Lutheran theologian
Nowadays a broad consensus has emerged which -in accordance with the words of the text -applies the promise to Peter as a person. On this point liberal (H. J. Holtzmann, E. Schweiger) and conservative (Cullmann, Flew) theologians agree, as well as representatives of Roman Catholic exegesis.
‘The Church in the Gospel of Matthew: Hermeneutical Analysis of the Current Debate’
Biblical Interpretation and Church Text and Context
(Flemington Markets, NSW: Paternoster Press, 1984), page 58
JPK pages 16-17

Donald A. Carson III
Baptist and Professor of New Testament at Trinity Evangelical Seminary
(two quotations from different works)
Although it is true that petros and petra can mean ‘stone’ and ‘rock’ respectively in earlier Greek, the distinction is largely confined to poetry. Moreover the underlying Aramaic is in this case unquestionable; and most probably kepha was used in both clauses (‘you are kepha’ and ‘on this kepha’), since the word was used both for a name and for a ‘rock’. The Peshitta (written in Syriac, a language cognate with Aramaic) makes no distinction between the words in the two clauses. The Greek makes the distinction between petros and petra simply because it is trying to preserve the pun, and in Greek the feminine petra could not very well serve as a masculine name.
The Expositor’s Bible Commentary: Volume 8 (Matthew, Mark, Luke)
(Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, 1984), page 368
JPK pages 17-18
The word Peter petros, meaning ‘rock’ (Gk 4377), is masculine, and in Jesus’ follow-up statement he uses the feminine word petra (Gk 4376). On the basis of this change, many have attempted to avoid identifying Peter as the rock on which Jesus builds his church. Yet if it were not for Protestant reactions against extremes of Roman Catholic interpretations, it is doubtful whether many would have taken ‘rock’ to be anything or anyone other than Peter.
Zondervan NIV Bible Commentary -New Testament, vol. 2
(Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, 1994), page 78
JPK page 18

John Peter Lange
German Protestant scholar
The Saviour, no doubt, used in both clauses the Aramaic word kepha (hence the Greek Kephas applied to Simon, John i.42; comp. 1 Cor. i.12; iii.22; ix.5; Gal. ii.9), which means rock and is used both as a proper and a common noun.... The proper translation then would be: ‘Thou art Rock, and upon this rock’, etc.
Lange’s Commentary on the Holy Scriptures: The Gospel According to Matthew, vol. 8
(Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, 1976), page 293
JPK page 19

John A. Broadus
Baptist author
(two quotations from the same work)
Many insist on the distinction between the two Greek words, thou art Petros and on this petra, holding that if the rock had meant Peter, either petros or petra would have been used both times, and that petros signifies a separate stone or fragment broken off, while petra is the massive rock. But this distinction is almost entirely confined to poetry, the common prose word instead of petros being lithos; nor is the distinction uniformly observed.
But the main answer here is that our Lord undoubtedly spoke Aramaic, which has no known means of making such a distinction [between feminine petra and masculine petros in Greek]. The Peshitta (Western Aramaic) renders, ‘Thou are kipho, and on this kipho’. The Eastern Aramaic, spoken in Palestine in the time of Christ, must necessarily have said in like manner, ‘Thou are kepha, and on this kepha’.... Beza called attention to the fact that it is so likewise in French: ‘Thou art Pierre, and on this pierre’; and Nicholson suggests that we could say, ‘Thou art Piers (old English for Peter), and on this pier.’
Commentary on the Gospel of Matthew
(Valley Forge, PA: Judson Press, 1886), pages 355-356
JPK page 20

J. Knox Chamblin
Presbyterian and New Testament Professor, Reformed Theological Seminary
By the words ‘this rock’ Jesus means not himself, nor his teaching, nor God the Father, nor Peter’s confession, but Peter himself. The phrase is immediately preceded by a direct and emphatic reference to Peter. As Jesus identifies himself as the Builder, the rock on which he builds is most naturally understood as someone (or something) other than Jesus himself. The demonstrative this, whether denoting what is physically close to Jesus or what is literally close in Matthew, more naturally refers to Peter (v. 18) than to the more remote confession (v. 16). The link between the clauses of verse 18 is made yet stronger by the play on words, ‘You are Peter (Gk. Petros), and on this rock (Gk. petra) I will build my church’. As an apostle, Peter utters the confession of verse 16; as a confessor he receives the designation this rock from Jesus.
Evangelical Commentary on the Bible (Grand Rapids, MI: Baker, 1989), page 742, JPK page 30

Craig L. Blomberg
Baptist and Professor of New Testament
Denver Seminary
Acknowledging Jesus as The Christ illustrates the appropriateness of Simon's nickname ‘Peter’ (Petros = rock). This is not the first time Simon has been called Peter (cf. John 1:42), but it is certainly the most famous. Jesus’ declaration, ‘You are Peter’, parallels Peter’s confession, ‘You are the Christ’, as if to say, ‘Since you can tell me who I am, I will tell you who you are”The expression ‘this rock’ almost certainly refers to Peter, following immediately after his name, just as the words following ‘the Christ’ in v. 16 applied to Jesus. The play on words in the Greek between Peter’s name (Petros) and the word ‘rock’ (petra) makes sense only if Peter is the rock and if Jesus is about to explain the significance of this identification.
The New American Commentary: Matthew, vol. 22 (Nashville: Broadman, 1992), pages 251-252, JPK pages 31-32

 

[BreadOfLife]

- continued . . .

David Hill
Presbyterian minister and Senior Lecturer in the Department of Biblical Studies
University of Sheffield, England
On this rock I will build my church: the word-play goes back to Aramaic tradition. It is on Peter himself, the confessor of his Messiahship, that Jesus will build the Church. The disciple becomes, as it were, the foundation stone of the community. Attempts to interpret the ‘rock’ as something other than Peter in person (e.g., his faith, the truth revealed to him) are due to Protestant bias, and introduce to the statement a degree of subtlety which is highly unlikely.
The New Century Bible Commentary, (London: Marshall, Morgan & Scott, 1972), page 261
JPK page 34

Suzanne de Dietrich
Presbyterian theologian
The play on words in verse 18 indicates the Aramaic origin of the passage. The new name contains a promise. ‘Simon’, the fluctuating, impulsive disciple, will, by the grace of God, be the ‘rock’ on which God will build the new community.
Layman’s Bible Commentary: Matthew, vol. 16, (Atlanta: John Knox Press, 1961), page 93
JPK page 34

Donald A. Hagner
Fuller Theological Seminary
The natural reading of the passage, despite the necessary shift from Petros to petra required by the word play in the Greek (but not the Aramaic, where the same word kepha occurs in both places), is that it is Peter who is the rock upon which the church is to be built.... The frequent attempts that have been made, largely in the past, to deny this in favor of the view that the confession itself is the rock... seem to be largely motivated by Protestant prejudice against a passage that is used by the Roman Catholics to justify the papacy.
Word Biblical Commentary, vol. 33b, (Dallas: Word Books, 1995), page 470, JPK pages 36-37

 

[BreadOfLife]

God had chosen impetuous Peter to eventually become a very stable and solid apostle. Hence Peter (Petros = Kepha = Cephas = little rock or stone) was chosen to be the apostle to the Jews (and Paul as apostle to the Gentiles). Peter's confession of faith given by revelation was built on the Rock who is Christ. So the metaphorical "keys" given to Peter were in fact the keys of the Gospel. Since "keys" is plural, Peter first preached the Gospel to the Jews at Pentecost and then to the Gentiles in the house of Cornelius. But Peter did not preach the Gospel in Rome, and is not even mentioned by Paul in the epistle to the Romans.

Now if you still want to hold on to the claptrap about Peter and the Papacy, you can certainly do so, but the Bible gives you no support. Only legends manufactured by the Catholic Church.

This is absolute nonsense.
Kepha ONLY means "Rock", there is NO Aramaic word for "little roCk".

The ONLY reason Peter is referred to as "Petros" in Greek is because "Petros" is a masculine noun.
It would have been ludicrous to call him the feminine "Petra" un the Greek - whoich would have been akkin to calling him "Patricia".

And if you knew your Bible aas well as you THINK you do - you would realize that the "Keys" given to Peter - and Peter alone are NOT without precedent. This was prefigured in Isaiah 22 when God gave the Keys to the House of Israel to Eliakin . . .
Isaiah 22:22
And I will place on his shoulder the key of the house of David. He shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.

Sound familliar??
Matt. 16:19
I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

Finally - the archaeological and testimonial evidence from the Early church assures us that Peter was indee in Rome preaching with Paul - and in fact was crucified there.
Dionysius of Corinth
You have also, by your very admonition, brought together the planting that was made by Peter and Paul at Rome and at Corinth; for both of them alike planted in our Corinth and taught us; and both alike, teaching similarly in Italy, suffered martyrdom at the same time (Letter to Soter of Rome [inter A.D. 166 -174] as recorded by Eusebius).

Irenaeus
Matthew also issued among the Hebrews a written Gospel in their own language, while Peter and Paul were evangelizing in Rome and laying the foundation of the Church. After their departure, Mark, the disciple and interpreter of Peter, also handed down to us in writing what had been preached by Peter (Against Heresies 3:1:1 [A.D. 189]).

Tertullian
Let us see what milk the Corinthians drained from Paul; against what standard the Galatians were measured for correction; what the Philippians, Thessalonians, and Ephesians read; what even the nearby Romans sound forth, to whom both Peter and Paul bequeathed the Gospel and even sealed it with their blood (Against Marcion 4:5:1 [inter A.D. 207-212]).

Eusebius
The Apostle Peter, after he has established the Church in Antioch, is sent to Rome, where he remains bishop of that city, preaching the Gospel for twenty-five years (The Chronicle, Ad An. Dom. 42 [A.D. 303]).

Peter of Alexandria
Peter, the first chosen of the Apostles, having been apprehended often and thrown into prison and treated with ignominy, at last was crucified in Rome (Canonical Letter, canon 9 [A.D. 306]).

 

[Saint of God]

Who said anything about Peter or Abraham being "greater" than Jesus??
I simly pointed to the fact that hey are BOTH referred to as "Rosk" in the Scriptures as is Jesus.

That does not help your argument. Jesus' Hebrew name is Yeshua and there are many others with that name in the scriptures. So the big question is... Are you saying that Peter is the rock of your salvation?

Jesus blessing on on Peter is THREEfold:
1. And Jesus answered him, “Blessed are YOU, Simon Bar-Jonah! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven.
2. And I tell YOU, you are Peter (Kepha), and on this rock (Kepha) I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
3. I will give YOU the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever YOU bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever YOU loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

You are funny... Jesus is referring to the revelation from the Father that he Jesus is his son. That is why he said 'you are Peter'. You have to remember the original question to get the context. "Whom do men say that I am?" Peter answered correctly, and Jesus proved it by saying You are Peter... and it is based on that revelation Jesus builds his church... and the keys of heaven are given to those who believe Jesus is the son of God like Peter.

YOUR earlier post implied that Jesus is the ONLY one called "Rock" in the Scriptures - and that is just false. Peter is the "Rock" (kepha) of Matt. 16:18 - and there is NO getting around this fact.

Sorry if you took it that way, but my intention was not to imply that. My intention was to show that Jesus is our rock and not Peter... If Peter is your rock, then Peter should have died for you.

How did I cherry-pick??
I showed multiple verses of people being called "Rock" other than Jesus.

That is what cherrypicking is... picking verses and using them out of context. (the name Peter means little rock)

Do you even unbderstand what "cherry-picking" means??

Yes, it is what you did...

Here are over a DOZEN quotes from several highlt-regarded Protestant scholars on Matt. 16:18 - and Peter, the "Rock":
William Hendriksen
member of the Reformed Christian Church
Professor of New Testament Literature at Calvin Seminary
The meaning is, ‘You are Peter, that is Rock, and upon this rock, that is, on you, Peter I will build my church”Our Lord, speaking Aramaic, probably said, ‘And I say to you, you are Kepha, and on this kepha I will build my church”Jesus, then, is promising Peter that he is going to build his church on him! I accept this view.
New Testament Commentary: Exposition of the Gospel According to Matthew
(Grand Rapids, MI: Baker, 1973), page 647
JPK page 14

Gerhard Maier
leading conservative evangelical Lutheran theologian
Nowadays a broad consensus has emerged which -in accordance with the words of the text -applies the promise to Peter as a person. On this point liberal (H. J. Holtzmann, E. Schweiger) and conservative (Cullmann, Flew) theologians agree, as well as representatives of Roman Catholic exegesis.
‘The Church in the Gospel of Matthew: Hermeneutical Analysis of the Current Debate’
Biblical Interpretation and Church Text and Context
(Flemington Markets, NSW: Paternoster Press, 1984), page 58
JPK pages 16-17

Donald A. Carson III
Baptist and Professor of New Testament at Trinity Evangelical Seminary
(two quotations from different works)
Although it is true that petros and petra can mean ‘stone’ and ‘rock’ respectively in earlier Greek, the distinction is largely confined to poetry. Moreover the underlying Aramaic is in this case unquestionable; and most probably kepha was used in both clauses (‘you are kepha’ and ‘on this kepha’), since the word was used both for a name and for a ‘rock’. The Peshitta (written in Syriac, a language cognate with Aramaic) makes no distinction between the words in the two clauses. The Greek makes the distinction between petros and petra simply because it is trying to preserve the pun, and in Greek the feminine petra could not very well serve as a masculine name.
The Expositor’s Bible Commentary: Volume 8 (Matthew, Mark, Luke)
(Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, 1984), page 368
JPK pages 17-18
The word Peter petros, meaning ‘rock’ (Gk 4377), is masculine, and in Jesus’ follow-up statement he uses the feminine word petra (Gk 4376). On the basis of this change, many have attempted to avoid identifying Peter as the rock on which Jesus builds his church. Yet if it were not for Protestant reactions against extremes of Roman Catholic interpretations, it is doubtful whether many would have taken ‘rock’ to be anything or anyone other than Peter.
Zondervan NIV Bible Commentary -New Testament, vol. 2
(Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, 1994), page 78
JPK page 18

John Peter Lange
German Protestant scholar
The Saviour, no doubt, used in both clauses the Aramaic word kepha (hence the Greek Kephas applied to Simon, John i.42; comp. 1 Cor. i.12; iii.22; ix.5; Gal. ii.9), which means rock and is used both as a proper and a common noun.... The proper translation then would be: ‘Thou art Rock, and upon this rock’, etc.
Lange’s Commentary on the Holy Scriptures: The Gospel According to Matthew, vol. 8
(Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, 1976), page 293
JPK page 19

They like you all, ignore the original question... Whom do men say that I am? Jesus did not build his church on Peter. Jesus builds his church on the faith of men who believe he is the son of God...

 

[Saint of God]

And if you knew your Bible aas well as you THINK you do - you would realize that the "Keys" given to Peter - and Peter alone are NOT without precedent. This was prefigured in Isaiah 22 when God gave the Keys to the House of Israel to Eliakin . . .
Isaiah 22:22
And I will place on his shoulder the key of the house of David. He shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.

that my friend is cherry-picking... You are trying to infer that the verse is referring to Peter.
Are you saying this is a prophecy of Peter
Isa 22
20 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will call my servant Eliakim the son of Hilkiah:
21 And I will clothe him with thy robe, and strengthen him with thy girdle, and I will commit thy government into his hand: and he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Judah.
22 And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.
23 And I will fasten him as a nail in a sure place; and he shall be for a glorious throne to his father's house.
24 And they shall hang upon him all the glory of his father's house, the offspring and the issue, all vessels of small quantity, from the vessels of cups, even to all the vessels of flagons.
25 In that day, saith the Lord of hosts, shall the nail that is fastened in the sure place be removed, and be cut down, and fall; and the burden that was upon it shall be cut off: for the Lord hath spoken it.

 

[Enoch111]

This is absolute nonsense.
Kepha ONLY means "Rock", there is NO Aramaic word for "little roCk".

A stone can be legitimately called "a little rock" or "a small rock" and Petros = a stone.

HELPS Word-studies
4074 Pétros (a masculine noun) – properly, a stone (pebble), such as a small rock found along a pathway. 4074 /Pétros ("small stone") then stands in contrast to 4073 /pétra ("cliff, boulder," Abbott-Smith).

As to all the NON-BIBLICAL SOURCES about Peter "the pope" just ignore them.

 

[Illuminator]

That does not help your argument. Jesus' Hebrew name is Yeshua and there are many others with that name in the scriptures. So the big question is... Are you saying that Peter is the rock of your salvation?

No one is saying that. Read the Protestant scholarly quotes again. Jesus gave Peter a new name. Peter=rock.
Mark 3:16; John 1:42 – Jesus renames Simon “Kepha” in Aramaic which literally means “rock.” This was an extraordinary thing for Jesus to do, because “rock” was not even a name in Jesus’ time. Jesus did this, not to give Simon a strange name, but to identify his new status among the apostles. When God changes a person’s name, He changes their status. John 1:42 is enough to settle the matter, but apparently it is not for some people.

Gen. 17:5; 32:28; 2 Kings 23:34; Acts 9:4; 13:9 – for example, in these verses, we see that God changes the following people’s names and, as a result, they become special agents of God: Abram to Abraham; Jacob to Israel, Eliakim to Jehoiakim, Saul to Paul.

You are funny... Jesus is referring to the revelation from the Father that he Jesus is his son. That is why he said 'you are Peter'. You have to remember the original question to get the context. "Whom do men say that I am?" Peter answered correctly, and Jesus proved it by saying You are Peter... and it is based on that revelation Jesus builds his church... and the keys of heaven are given to those who believe Jesus is the son of God like Peter.

You are funny... Jesus is referring to the revelation from the Father that he Jesus is his son. That is why he said 'you are ROCK'. You have to remember the original question to get the context. "Whom do men say that I am?" Peter answered correctly, and Jesus proved it by saying You are ROCK... and it is based on that revelation Jesus builds his church...

and the keys of heaven are given to those who believe Jesus is the son of God like Peter.

The keys are not given to each individual believer. Keys represent authority. Imagine going to a pro baseball game, and suddenly all the players are umpires. Chaos would surely follow.

Sorry if you took it that way, but my intention was not to imply that. My intention was to show that Jesus is our rock and not Peter... If Peter is your rock, then Peter should have died for you.

A non-sequitur fallacy. Again, Peter means ROCK. You contradict a long list of scholars from a variety of Protestant sources. Maybe you should write your own Bible study manual and see how far you get.

That is what cherrypicking is... picking verses and using them out of context. (the name Peter means little rock)

Matt. 16:18 – Jesus said in Aramaic, you are “Kepha” and on this “Kepha” I will build my Church. In Aramaic, “kepha” means a massive stone, and “evna” means little pebble. Some non-Catholics argue that, because the Greek word for rock is “petra”, that “Petros” actually means “a small rock”, and therefore Jesus was attempting to diminish Peter right after blessing him by calling him a small rock. Not only is this nonsensical in the context of Jesus’ blessing of Peter, Jesus was speaking Aramaic and used “Kepha,” not “evna.” Using Petros to translate Kepha was done simply to reflect the masculine noun of Peter.

Moreover, if the translator wanted to identify Peter as the “small rock,” he would have used “lithos” which means a little pebble in Greek. "lithos" is not used.

Yes, it is what you did...
They like you all, ignore the original question... Whom do men say that I am? Jesus did not build his church on Peter. Jesus builds his church on the faith of men who believe he is the son of God...

We agree that Jesus builds the Church. It's BOTH/AND (Hebraic approach to Scripture) not EITHER/OR. (false dichotomous thinking)
To argue that Jesus first blesses Peter for having received divine revelation from the Father, then diminishes him by calling him a small pebble, and then builds him up again by giving him the keys to the kingdom of heaven is entirely illogical, and a gross manipulation of the text to avoid the truth of Peter’s leadership in the Church. This is a three-fold blessing of Peter – you are blessed, you are the rock on which I will build my Church, and you will receive the keys to the kingdom of heaven (not you are blessed for receiving Revelation, but you are still an insignificant little pebble, and yet I am going to give you the keys to the kingdom DUH).

Matt. 16:18-19 – to further rebut SofG's argument that Jesus was speaking about Peter’s confession of faith (not Peter himself) based on the revelation he received, the verses are clear that Jesus, after acknowledging Peter’s receipt of divine revelation, turns the whole discourse to the person of Peter: Blessed are “you” Simon, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to “you,” and I tell “you,” “you” are Peter, and on this rock I will build my Church. I will give “you” the keys to the kingdom, and whatever “you” bind and loose on earth will be bound and loosed in heaven. Jesus’ whole discourse relates to the person of Peter, not his confession of faith.

Luke 22:31-32 – Jesus also prays that Peter’s faith may not fail and charges Peter to be the one to strengthen the other apostles – “Simon, satan demanded to have you (plural, referring to all the apostles) to sift you (plural) like wheat, but I prayed for you (singular) that your (singular) faith may not fail, and when you (singular) have turned again, strengthen your brethren. Did God the Father ignore Jesus' prayer???

Acts 1,2,3,4,5,8,15 – no one questions Peter’s authority to speak for the Church, declare anathemas, and resolve doctrinal debates. Peter is the rock on which the Church is built who feeds Jesus’ sheep and whose faith will not fail.

Aramaic Bible

70 verses indicating Peter's role of leadership for the universal Church and chief of the Apostles

 

[FHII]

Concerning the keys of heaven: yes it was Peter who got them, but if they are a symbol of his authority to bind or loose whatever on earth or heaven (which was limited), he wasn't the only one.

Matthew 18:18 KJV
Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

In chapter 18 he is talking to his disciples, not just Peter. So, if they keys to heaven mean the authority to bind and loose... No, Peter wasn't the only one.

 

[FHII]

How can Jesus be the builder and the church being built?

Are you questioning that Jesus was the builder? The Church is built upon the apostles and prophets and Jesus is the chief cornerstone. In one way it wasn't all him but in another way it was. He used others to build it, but it was his doctrine and truth the others used.

But as to your question as to how Jesus could be the builder and the Church being built, you should ask Jesus.

Matthew 16:18 KJV
And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

I trust you are perhaps a little familiar with the vers, no? Jesus said he was building his Church.

 

[FHII]

If Christ is the rock:

1) Why does Christ even mention Peter?

If!?!

I assume you would like to rephrase that.

2) Why did Christ change Peter’s name? (Indicating an office or ministry, similar to Abram & Jacob)

Did Sarah have an office or ministry? Just asking...
Peter needed a character change. Thats why God changes names. But according to John, Jesus changed his name the first time he met Peter.

4) Why does Christ identify peter with himself! Matt 17:27
Where is the coin for the other apostles?

Well probably because they came to Peter and Peter came to Jesus. Had they come to Andrew and Andrew came to Jesus, Peter might not have been mentioned.

 

[FHII]

5) Why is Peter commanded to feed Christ’s sheep (the other apostles) and the lambs? (The people)
Jn 21:17

It was actually a rebuke!

 

[Enoch111]

Peter is the rock on which the Church is built who feeds Jesus’ sheep and whose faith will not fail.

If Peter is the rock on which the Church is built then we are all in deep trouble. That Church would be built upon sand, since only God is the Rock and only Christ is the Rock.

 

[FHII]

If Peter is the rock on which the Church is built then we are all in deep trouble. That Church would be built upon sand, since only God is the Rock and only Christ is the Rock.

Yes Enoch... True. The Apostles took careful steps to let it be known that they were not the rock which the Church is built on. They noted their importance and proper place, but none ever said the Church is built on "me".