Rank in Heaven?

[friend of]

Everyone will be royalty in the Kingdom of Heaven after Revelation plays out. If everyone is royal, then all rank will pretty much cease to exist since everyone is equal. Our works on earth will differentiate us, I suppose, but at the end of the day, I can't see anyone ordering anyone else around, (can you?). That type of hierarchy is really prevalent down here, but I doubt it will be around in Heaven/New Jerusalem, since its so divisive and ambition won't be a thing anymore. The parable of the vine workers says that we will all be rewarded for our labors equally, for the most part. What is rank in heaven? What does it mean to be great in the Kingdom of Heaven? Rank seems pointless almost. Will we be ordering around angels and other creatures?

Open thread. God bless you!

 

[Hidden In Him]

Everyone will be royalty in the Kingdom of Heaven after Revelation plays out. If everyone is royal, then all rank will pretty much cease to exist since everyone is equal. Our works on earth will differentiate us, I suppose, but at the end of the day, I can't see anyone ordering anyone else around, (can you?). That type of hierarchy is really prevalent down here, but I doubt it will be around in Heaven/New Jerusalem, since its so divisive and ambition won't be a thing anymore. The parable of the vine workers says that we will all be rewarded for our labors equally, for the most part. What is rank in heaven? What does it mean to be great in the Kingdom of Heaven? Rank seems pointless almost. Will we be ordering around angels and other creatures?

Open thread. God bless you!

Oh my! So much to respond to here : ) Let's break this down, and I hope you don't mind my taking the opposite tack. I was JUST mentioning this in another thread, so your timing is impeccable, Lol.

Ok, now before I show you scripture for this, think with me for a second. If ALL of us are destined to reign with Him as kings, who exactly are we all going to reign over?

Think on this Parable for starters, and tell me what you think He was referring to when He talked about the "ten cities." Was He talking about ten literal cities in Heaven, or something figurative:

The Parable of the Minas

11 Now as they heard these things, He spoke another parable, because He was near Jerusalem and because they thought the kingdom of God would appear immediately. 12 Therefore He said: “A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom and to return. 13 So he called ten of his servants, delivered to them ten minas, and said to them, ‘Do business till I come.’ 14 But his citizens hated him, and sent a delegation after him, saying, ‘We will not have this man to reign over us.’

15 “And so it was that when he returned, having received the kingdom, he then commanded these servants, to whom he had given the money, to be called to him, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading. 16 Then came the first, saying, ‘Master, your mina has earned ten minas.’ 17 And he said to him, ‘Well done, good servant; because you were faithful in a very little, have authority over ten cities.’ 18 And the second came, saying, ‘Master, your mina has earned five minas.’ 19 Likewise he said to him, ‘You also be over five cities.’

20 “Then another came, saying, ‘Master, here is your mina, which I have kept put away in a handkerchief. 21 For I feared you, because you are an austere man. You collect what you did not deposit, and reap what you did not sow.’ 22 And he said to him, ‘Out of your own mouth I will judge you, you wicked servant. You knew that I was an austere man, collecting what I did not deposit and reaping what I did not sow. 23 Why then did you not put my money in the bank, that at my coming I might have collected it with interest?’

24 “And he said to those who stood by, ‘Take the mina from him, and give it to him who has ten minas.’ 25 (But they said to him, ‘Master, he has ten minas.’) 26 ‘For I say to you, that to everyone who has will be given; and from him who does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him. 27 But bring here those enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, and slay them before me.’ ” (Luke 19:11-27)

 

[friend of]

Think on this Parable for starters, and tell me what you think He was referring to when He talked about the "ten cities." Was He talking about ten literal cities in Heaven, or something figurative:

That's hard to say. Will there be a set number of cities within New Jerusalem? It seems unlikely and yet, if NJ is supposed to be static then there would be a set number. Yet that number seems to change due to the labor of the servants of Christ who come there, which suggests that the number of cities is not static/a set in stone number. Could it be figurative of simply holding power and influence? I suppose that would make more sense. To me, I just find the whole things fascinating because we are so used to the way this world works in that it is driven so much by personal ambition that we cannot really imagine a world without such a focus.

Curious to see what you think man.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Could it be figurative of simply holding power and influence?

It could, but now consider this passage next. In this one, Jesus does not appear to be talking figuratively at all:

35 Then James and John, the sons of Zebedee, came to Him, saying, “Teacher, we want You to do for us whatever we ask.” 36 And He said to them, “What do you want Me to do for you?” 37 They said to Him, “Grant us that we may sit, one on Your right hand and the other on Your left, in Your glory.” 38 But Jesus said to them, “You do not know what you ask. Are you able to drink the cup that I drink, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with?”

39 They said to Him, “We are able.” So Jesus said to them, “You will indeed drink the cup that I drink, and with the baptism I am baptized with you will be baptized; 40 but to sit on My right hand and on My left is not Mine to give, but it is for those for whom it is prepared.”

41 And when the ten heard it, they began to be greatly displeased with James and John. 42 But Jesus called them to Himself and said to them, “You know that those who are considered rulers over the Gentiles lord it over them, and their great ones exercise authority over them. 43 Yet it shall not be so among you; but whoever desires to become great among you shall be your servant. 44 And whoever of you desires to be first shall be slave of all. 45 For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many.” (Mark 10:35-45).

Now, "on your right hand and on your left hand" appear to be references to positions of the highest authority in His kingdom, under Him. Jesus clearly understands it to be what they are asking for by His response, saying, "to sit on My right hand and on My left is not Mine to give, but it is for those for whom it is prepared." And notice that He them launches into a teaching on what the kings in His kingdom will reign like, i.e. how they will rule over others, and not "lord it over them."

If this is the subject matter of the entire passage, then their request to sit at his right and on his left must be a reference to wanting the highest rank, yes? I believe if you look it up in a parallel account, the other disciples understood what they were asking for as well, and they were none too pleased about it, LoL. (Matthew 20:24).

 

[Hidden In Him]

I believe if you look it up in a parallel account, the other disciples understood what they were asking for as well, and they were none too pleased about it, LoL. (Matthew 20:24).

Oh. It's actually in Mark 10:41 also. I just didn't see it.

 

[FHII]

Everyone will be royalty in the Kingdom of Heaven after Revelation plays out. If everyone is royal, then all rank will pretty much cease to exist since everyone is equal. Our works on earth will differentiate us, I suppose, but at the end of the day, I can't see anyone ordering anyone else around, (can you?). That type of hierarchy is really prevalent down here, but I doubt it will be around in Heaven/New Jerusalem, since its so divisive and ambition won't be a thing anymore. The parable of the vine workers says that we will all be rewarded for our labors equally, for the most part. What is rank in heaven? What does it mean to be great in the Kingdom of Heaven? Rank seems pointless almost. Will we be ordering around angels and other creatures?

Open thread. God bless you!

I like you bringing to story of the vine workers into the conversation. I think it has a slightly different meaning behind it, but that's ok. What I get from it is that you are blessed to be a long time follower and saint, but those who come in later are equally as blessed. The difference is I was applying it to earthly things, while you applied it (more wisely) to heavenly things.

There are verses that suggest a rank in heaven. I said "suggest" and not prove! They could be just making a point.... These verses are Psalms 84:10 ( the writer says he would rather be a doorkeeper in the house of God then to dwell in the wicked's tents), and Matthew 5:19 (where some will be called least or great in the kingdom of heaven).

Other posters have brought up other good points, which I will not rehash.

Still, I am not convinced of a rank or hierachy in heaven. While I brought up those verses, I can still poke holes in the theory.

The best answer I can give is that there is a rank (sort of): God first, then everyone else!

There is even a problem with that though. We are supposed to have the mind of Christ, He is supposed to be in us and we in him and we are all supposed to be of one mind and one accord. In short, we are one body with many members, and the hand is not more or less important than the eye or the heart (as explained in 1 Corinthians).

I go on the belief that heaven will be perfectly governed. Its extremely carnal to believe that there will be professions like lawyers, doctors, car washers and fast food workers... Silly, right? But if that were so, for heaven to be perfect, everyone must do their job perfectly. And if there is a small job in heaven, it ain't heaven if its done imperfectly. If heaven myst be perfect, is there really any small job?

Overall, my reasoning on this question is ridiculous! And I have no answer that I can defend. But I hope I have at least made some philosophical points.

Overall, I don't believe there will be a rank in heaven. We will be one with God.

 

[friend of]

The best answer I can give is that there is a rank (sort of): God first, then everyone else!

I suppose it could be that simple, really.

 

[friend of]

The difference is I was applying it to earthly things, while you applied it (more wisely) to heavenly things.

I mean like, we all get eternal life right? That's the ultimate reward for all followers of Christ, small and great alike. It's the one thing we all get that is the same and surpasses the worth of all other things.

 

[friend of]

Now, "on your right hand and on your left hand" appear to be references to positions of the highest authority in His kingdom, under Him. Jesus clearly understands it to be what they are asking for by His response, saying, "to sit on My right hand and on My left is not Mine to give, but it is for those for whom it is prepared." And notice that He them launches into a teaching on what the kings in His kingdom will reign like, i.e. how they will rule over others, and not "lord it over them."

I'm thinking King David here.

 

[justbyfaith]

Everyone will be royalty in the Kingdom of Heaven after Revelation plays out. If everyone is royal, then all rank will pretty much cease to exist since everyone is equal. Our works on earth will differentiate us, I suppose, but at the end of the day, I can't see anyone ordering anyone else around, (can you?). That type of hierarchy is really prevalent down here, but I doubt it will be around in Heaven/New Jerusalem, since its so divisive and ambition won't be a thing anymore. The parable of the vine workers says that we will all be rewarded for our labors equally, for the most part. What is rank in heaven? What does it mean to be great in the Kingdom of Heaven? Rank seems pointless almost. Will we be ordering around angels and other creatures?

Open thread. God bless you!

Even those who have a "rank" in the Lord (such as pastor) are not to lord it over the people who are under them (according to 1 Peter 5:3).

Jesus said that he came not to be served but to serve. Ordering people around is the opposite of what it means to be filled with the Spirit. If you are filled with the Holy Spirit, you are not telling people what to do, you are asking what you can do for them.

 

[JohnDB]

Good thread!

Yes...there is a hierarchy in Heaven. And it's not going to work like they do on earth.

First off... eternity is a long time to spend twiddling your thumbs. And man's first assignment was landscaping/gardening. Meaning that we were created to live and work.
Man was given a helper...to teach and train.
Same thing with Children.
These roles were part of the original design. If they were good then they will be good for all eternity.

You were given life so that you could live...then granted Salvation so that you could have an even more abundant/full life.

I think that there's something to that. Where singing songs is fun...and I'll be glad to actually do it well in Heaven...that's not all we will be doing. But even singing as a group requires a leader to lead it. Who is going to do that?

Then there's all these gifts and talents that God has given us. They are good gifts... meaning that we will bring them with us.
"Let nothing be wasted" was said by Jesus for a reason. God is always perfectly efficient with what He does. Even administration is a talent. "God sets up leaders or deposes them". Why would God waste that talent in Heaven?

But it's also said that we will rest from our labors in Heaven as well. Meaning that work will be a privilege, easy, and fun. Ever had a good day working with friends? Everyone clowning around but doing a job well?

Might be something along those lines. Words are insufficient to describe what heaven is like...talent/capability and authority and responsibilities are definitely a part of Heaven as has been revealed by God. But they really don't have any of those negative connotations that we associate with the roles here on earth.

To bake the bread at the feast in Heaven... someone needs to do it...and making bread means flour needs to be made from wheat grown by a farmer who needed to use farming implements made of steel by another who needed someone to mine and smelt the steel who needed.....

Getting the picture?