Rapture 2020: The Message

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GISMYS_7

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Sad!! But in so many "churches" today there is nothing said about the rapture "catching up of believers" and the near return of Jesus so many are just lukewarm simi-private social clubs.
 

Keraz

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Here is a question for those who believe in a pre-trib rapture to heaven of the Church; they need to carefully consider:

If the Church is taken to heaven while Jewish Israel remain on earth, to go through the Great Tribulation, how is it that God’s holy people are seen in the holy Land before the GT?

Isaiah 66:15-21 The Lord is coming in fire, He will destroy the ungodly peoples.......... I am coming to gather people from all the nations, they will declare My glory to the world. They will come on every means of transport to My holy City. Psalms 107

Ezekiel 34:11-16..After the Lord’s Day of wrath....I shall search for My sheep and gather them from out of the nations into their own country.... John 10:16

Isaiah 35:1-10 The Land will be regenerated ....and a highway will appear, that the ransomed of the Lord shall walk on as they come to Zion, with gladness and joy.

Romans 9:24-26 We Christians are the objects of God’s mercy, who He has called out of the Jew and Gentile peoples....In the same place as the ancient Israelites were rejected; you will be called the children of the Living God.

Then; later, when the leader of the rest of the world takes dictatorial control:

Daniel 7:25 ...the holy people will be delivered into his power, [the Anti-Christ] for 3½ years.

Revelation 13:5-7 The beast, [the Anti-Christ] is given authority over the world for 42 months and he wages war on God’s people, defeating them.
Revelation 12:17 Furiously, the dragon, [the Anti-Christ] persecutes those who keep the Commandments and who witness to Jesus.


The pre-trib rapture doctrine has the current inhabitants of Israel, who are in apostasy and rejection of Jesus now; passing through the final 3½ year period before Jesus Returns and finally accepting Christianity, as per Zechariah 12:9-14

But the prophesies above, plainly state that it will be the faithful people of God, who are Christian people from every tribe, race, nation and language, who are present in the holy Land during the seven years of Daniel 9:27.
Also it is God’s faithful Christian people who are there when Gog and his horde attack them and the Lord protects them. Ezekiel 38:8-12

This truth is confirmed by many prophesies, especially Jeremiah 12:14=16:

Jeremiah 12:14-16 These are the Words of the Lord: I am against all those evil neighbours who have encroached onto the Land that My Israelite people will inherit. Take note; I will pluck them out from where they are now and also I will pluck out the House of Judah as well. After I have removed them, I will Return and have compassion on them, bringing them back to their heritage, if they will diligently learn the way of My people, to only swear by My Name: the Living God. But if they refuse, then I will completely remove and destroy them. This Bible passage is extremely informative, it gives the Lord’s plans for three groups of people:

1/ The evil neighbours; The Islamic nations and entities surrounding Israel. Soon to be cleared out of the entire Middle East region by the terrible Day of the Lord’s wrath by fire from the sun. Psalms 83:1-18, Isaiah 30:25-30, Amos 1:1-11, 2:1-5

2/ The House of Judah, the Jewish people, currently inhabiting a part of the holy Land. The same fate as the neighbours, but a remnant will be saved. Isaiah 6:11-13, Zechariah 13:8-9, Romans 9:27

3/ My people; the true Israelites of God, every Christian believer; individuals from every tribe, race, nation and language. Revelation 5:9-10, 1 Peter 2:9-10

The story described here, is clear and concise: The Lord is about to solve all the Middle East problems, to a similar degree as how He reset civilization in Noah’s time. All the holy land will be depopulated, Jeremiah 10:18, excepting a small remnant of Messianic Jews who will shelter in bunkers in Jerusalem. Isaiah 29:1-4, Romans 9:27

This clearance will allow the gathering and settling of His faithful Christian people into their heritage where they will, at last be the people He always wanted there; a people who will be His witnesses; Isaiah 43:10, John 15:27, and display His Light to the nations. Isaiah 49:8, Matthew 5:14-16

Our Christian heritage, in all of the holy Land and our destiny. Ezekiel 39:25-29
 

GISMYS_7

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Yes!! Millions of people that reject the catching up and are left behind on rapture day the day after the rapture will see their huge mistake and will seek God but then they must try to live under anti-christ rule and many will be hunted down and killed.
 

Timtofly

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The tribulation is God's harvest. Why set up any government at all? The problem has been, no one thinks that God is involved. Revelation 6:16b "from the face of the One sitting on the throne and from the fury of the Lamb!" That is called hearsay. The inhabitants claim it happens. In a normal declaration. It would be placed immediately after the sky being rolled back, as a definite instance of same act.

We have been taught the trib is a time of judgment. We do not view it as a harvest. Now that we are actually in the tribulation we do not want to view it at all. The classic denial, that what has been taught has to be true. Well it is not totally true. Nor ever can be. The part of Satan's 3.5 years does not even have to happen. Yet we think it does because that is what we think should happen. If we could stop thinking it is going to happen long enough to sit down and think about it, WE could decide on our own what will happen. Of course we would have to humble ourselves and pray. 2 Chronicles 7:13-18
13 If I shut up the sky, so that there is no rain; or if I order locusts to devour the land; or if I send an epidemic of sickness among my people;
14 then, if my people, who bear my name, will humble themselves, pray, seek my face and turn from their evil ways, I will hear from heaven, forgive their sin and heal their land.
15 Now my eyes will be open and my ears will pay attention to the prayer made in this place.
16 For now I have chosen and consecrated this house, so that my name can be there forever; my eyes and heart will always be there.
17 As for you, if you will live in my presence, as did David your father, doing everything I have ordered you to do, and keeping my laws and rulings;
18 then I will establish the throne of your rulership, as I covenanted with David your father when I said, ‘You will never lack a man to be ruler in Isra’el.’

This is not for just national Israel. The church is spiritual Israel. The church in Rome tried so hard to squash that idea. Why? They did not want God to work. They wanted their own government and kingdom, and they also listened to Satan who promised them a kingdom just like he tempted Jesus.

God's government is eternal. Choose you this day. Do we serve Satan and temporal kingdoms? Or do we in Faith and Trust that after great trials in the 4th seal, not just promised to the church alone, but as what happened in Egypt, the world, the church is going to leave just like when Moses led Israel out of Egypt. Do we trust God and even preemptively humble ourselves and be prepared to steal all the riches away from Satan. That is the very souls of all mankind. Can the church lead a revival so that when this last judgment on earth happens there will be a revival instead of a rebellion?
 

GISMYS_7

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The tribulation is God'sjudgments. Revelation 16:1=The seven angels are now commanded to pour out their bowl of judgment upon the earth.
 

Keraz

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This condition ends with the 7th seal.
How do you figure that?
If we Christians are the Israel of God as Paul says; Galatians 6:14-16, then nothing can separate us from God and His promises to us remain valid.

BTW; the Seventh Seal is just a time gap, of a half hour in heaven. Which is equal to about 20 years earth time.
All the prophesied things from Rev 8 to 19:11, must happen during that time.
 

GISMYS_7

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How do you figure that?
If we Christians are the Israel of God as Paul says; Galatians 6:14-16, then nothing can separate us from God and His promises to us remain valid.

BTW; the Seventh Seal is just a time gap, of a half hour in heaven. Which is equal to about 20 years earth time.
All the prophesied things from Rev 8 to 19:11, must happen during that time.

LOL!! Wild ideas of little men.
 

Timtofly

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How do you figure that?
If we Christians are the Israel of God as Paul says; Galatians 6:14-16, then nothing can separate us from God and His promises to us remain valid.

BTW; the Seventh Seal is just a time gap, of a half hour in heaven. Which is equal to about 20 years earth time.
All the prophesied things from Rev 8 to 19:11, must happen during that time.
The 7th seal opens the Lamb's book of life. This ends the church age. The church is with Christ like Paul prophecied.

The Trumpets are the Lamb and the 144K. See Revelation 14:4

4 These are the ones who have not defiled themselves with women, for they are virgins; they follow the Lamb wherever he goes; they have been ransomed from among humanity as firstfruits for God and the Lamb.

Notice the wording about the 144K. "they follow the Lamb wherever he goes; they have been ransomed from among humanity as firstfruits for God and the Lamb." They were sealed after the rapture, right before the 7th seal opens. There is no 20 year period, unless you have proof in an OT passage to back it up. It is just a normal half hour, like the 1000 years is just a normal 1000 years.

So the 144K are sealed. The Lamb and God still in view of the world. The firstfruits, the same thing Jesus said to those OT saints at the end of the OT at the cross, and the beginning of the NT. All the OT saints were the Firstfruits of that resurrection.

Now at the end of the church, 144K more Jews are sealed, and called the firstfruits during the Trumpets and Thunderings. Between the Rapture and the Second Coming all the sheep and goat teachings in the 4 Gospels will come into play again in our 2020/2021 world. We do not know when the rapture happens, but the Second Coming is in April of 2023.
 

Keraz

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The 7th seal opens the Lamb's book of life. This ends the church age. The church is with Christ like Paul prophecied.
Revelation 20:12 tells us plainly when the Bool of Life will be opened. AFTER the Millennium.
The Trumpets are the Lamb and the 144K. See Revelation 14:4
The 7 Trumpets are punishments onto the ungodly. See Revelation 8 and 9, 11:15
They were sealed after the rapture, right before the 7th seal opens.
There is no 'rapture to heaven' for the Church. You have made that up.
There is no 20 year period, unless you have proof in an OT passage to back it up. It is just a normal half hour, like the 1000 years is just a normal 1000 years.
The half hour is in heaven. Is time in heaven the same as it is on earth? NO.
The OT has plenty of prophesies that detail the period between the Sixth Seal world changer and Jesus Return. Isaiah 35, Ezekiel 34:11-16, Zechariah 8:1-13
Now at the end of the church, 144K more Jews are sealed,
What rubbish! Your fanciful ideas are just that.
The 144k are selected out of the people from every tribe, race, nation and language. They will proclaim the coming Kingdom to the world. Isaiah 66:19
We do not know when the rapture happens, but the Second Coming is in April of 2023.
This foolish statement caps it all!
 
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Timtofly

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Revelation 20:12 tells us plainly when the Bool of Life will be opened. AFTER the Millennium.

Revelation 5 is all about a book that is sealed with 7 seals. It deals with those ransomed by the blood of the Lamb. Heaven is waiting to see what has been sealed from before the creation of the world. The Trumpets cannot sound until the 7th seal is opened. Why would the seals not pertain to the church, the body of Christ? Who have been sealed, redeemed, and ransomed with the blood of the Lamb? Why would they not meet the Lord in the air, when the 6th seal is opened? Why cannot the Lamb's book of life, open during this half hour of silence? Why would names not be removed as the harvest of sheep and goats commences? Names have not been added for thousands of years. It has been sealed. The only thing that can happen will be names removed, period. God says He will blot out people's names.

8 When he took the scroll, the four living beings and the twenty-four elders fell down in front of the Lamb. Each one held a harp and gold bowls filled with pieces of incense, which are the prayers of God’s people;
9 and they sang a new song,
“You are worthy to take the scroll and break its seals; because you were slaughtered;
at the cost of blood you ransomed for God
persons from every tribe, language, people and nation.
10 You made them into a kingdom for God to rule, cohanim to serve him;
and they will rule over the earth.”

The 7 Trumpets are punishments onto the ungodly. See Revelation 8 and 9, 11:15
So there is no rapture, yet the Trumpets are not for the church and the 144K?
There is no 'rapture to heaven' for the Church. You have made that up.
Jesus, Paul, and John made it up also.
Matthew 24:27-31
27 For when the Son of Man does come, it will be like lightning that flashes out of the east and fills the sky to the western horizon.
28 Wherever there’s a dead body, that’s where you find the vultures.
29 “But immediately following the trouble of those times,
the sun will grow dark,
the moon will stop shining,
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the powers in heaven will be shaken.

30 “Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, all the tribes of the Land will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with tremendous power and glory.
31 He will send out his angels with a great shofar; and they will gather together his chosen people from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
1 Thessalonians 4:15-17
15 When we say this, we base it on the Lord’s own word: we who remain alive when the Lord comes will certainly not take precedence over those who have died.
16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven with a rousing cry, with a call from one of the ruling angels, and with God’s shofar; those who died united with the Messiah will be the first to rise;
17 then we who are left still alive will be caught up with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and thus we will always be with the Lord.
1 Corinthians 15:51-53
51 Look, I will tell you a secret — not all of us will die! But we will all be changed!
52 It will take but a moment, the blink of an eye, at the finalshofar. For the shofar will sound, and the dead will be raised to live forever, and we too will be changed.
53 For this material which can decay must be clothed with imperishability, this which is mortal must be clothed with immortality.
Revelation 6:12-17
12 Then I watched as he broke the sixth seal, and there was a great earthquake, the sun turned black as sackcloth worn in mourning, and the full moon became blood-red.
13 The stars fell from heaven to earth just as a fig tree drops its figs when shaken by a strong wind.
14 The sky receded like a scroll being rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved from its place.
15 Then the earth’s kings, the rulers, the generals, the rich and the mighty — indeed, everyone, slave and free — hid himself in caves and among the rocks in the mountains,
16 and said to the mountains and rocks,Fall on us, and hide us from the face of the One sitting on the throne and from the fury of the Lamb!
17 For the Great Day of their fury has come, and who can stand?”
The half hour is in heaven. Is time in heaven the same as it is on earth? NO.
The OT has plenty of prophesies that detail the period between the Sixth Seal world changer and Jesus Return. Isaiah 35, Ezekiel 34:11-16, Zechariah 8:1-13
Revelation 6:14-17
14 The sky receded like a scroll being rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved from its place.
15 Then the earth’s kings, the rulers, the generals, the rich and the mighty — indeed, everyone, slave and free — hid himself in caves and among the rocks in the mountains,
16 and said to the mountains and rocks,Fall on us, and hide us from the face of the One sitting on the throne and from the fury of the Lamb!
17 For the Great Day of their fury has come, and who can stand?”

This says God on the throne, and the Lamb appear in the sky. This is the time we meet the Lord in the air. The Second Coming is when we return with Christ. The seals, trumpets, and thunderings is only a 3.5 year period. If there is another 3.5 year period, it will be controlled by Satan. We do not want that period to happen. It is not God's Will. If you all want it, you want millions or billions of lost souls to die and go to hell. The Calvinist listened to Satan and think it will happen, because they claim those people were never meant to be saved, God wills some to everlasting fire to be with Satan. 1/3 rd of the angels followed Satan. Calvanism is the doctrine where 1/3 rd of humanity will be dammed in hell with Satan. God so loved the whole world, not willing that any should perish, but all should come to repentance. Now the church is just willing to give up on 1/3rd of humanity?

Time in heaven is the same time on earth. You will have to provide scripture to prove otherwise. There is a Lord's Day. The verse says, there was "silence in heaven". It does not say, a half hour of the Lord's silence.

"When the Lamb broke the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for what seemed like half an hour."

What rubbish! Your fanciful ideas are just that.
The 144k are selected out of the people from every tribe, race, nation and language. They will proclaim the coming Kingdom to the world. Isaiah 66:19
Revelation 7:4
4 I heard how many were sealed — 144,000 from every tribe of the people of Isra’el:


There is an issue with who is and who is not in the Lamb's book of life. Prove to me when people still walking on earth, after the Second Coming, just happened to not have their names written down. Some here think they can persevere, even after the Second Coming. Your proof just stated that those who persevere to the end, never had their names written down ever. They were never going to be saved anyways. So why pray to persevere through the time when Satan and the Mark of the beast 666 is demanded? Can you explain your delima? If you are around when Satan, the False Prophet, and the antichrist are here, your name is not in the Lamb's book of life. You all were never predestined, forenew, nor called. If you are in that crowd, your interpretation sent you to hell. The only hope is having your head chopped off.

The alternative interpretation, is those who received the mark, will have their names removed. What is your interpretation?

I have been accused of spewing rubbish, yet you all preach it is ok for billions of humans to go to hell. Would that not be rubbish instead?
 
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GISMYS_7

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Revelation 5 is all about a book that is sealed with 7 seals. It deals with those ransomed by the blood of the Lamb. Heaven is waiting to see what has been sealed from before the creation of the world. The Trumpets cannot sound until the 7th seal is opened. Why would the seals not pertain to the church, the body of Christ? Who have been sealed, redeemed, and ransomed with the blood of the Lamb? Why would they not meet the Lord in the air, when the 6th seal is opened? Why cannot the Lamb's book of life, open during this half hour of silence? Why would names not be removed as the harvest of sheep and goats commences? Names have not been added for thousands of years. It has been sealed. The only thing that can happen will be names removed, period. God says He will blot out people's names.

8 When he took the scroll, the four living beings and the twenty-four elders fell down in front of the Lamb. Each one held a harp and gold bowls filled with pieces of incense, which are the prayers of God’s people;
9 and they sang a new song,
“You are worthy to take the scroll and break its seals; because you were slaughtered;
at the cost of blood you ransomed for God
persons from every tribe, language, people and nation.
10 You made them into a kingdom for God to rule, cohanim to serve him;
and they will rule over the earth.”


So there is no rapture, yet the Trumpets are not for the church and the 144K?

Jesus, Paul, and John made it up also.
Matthew 24:27-31
27 For when the Son of Man does come, it will be like lightning that flashes out of the east and fills the sky to the western horizon.
28 Wherever there’s a dead body, that’s where you find the vultures.
29 “But immediately following the trouble of those times,
the sun will grow dark,
the moon will stop shining,
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the powers in heaven will be shaken.

30 “Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, all the tribes of the Land will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with tremendous power and glory.
31 He will send out his angels with a great shofar; and they will gather together his chosen people from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
1 Thessalonians 4:15-17
15 When we say this, we base it on the Lord’s own word: we who remain alive when the Lord comes will certainly not take precedence over those who have died.
16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven with a rousing cry, with a call from one of the ruling angels, and with God’s shofar; those who died united with the Messiah will be the first to rise;
17 then we who are left still alive will be caught up with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and thus we will always be with the Lord.
1 Corinthians 15:51-53
51 Look, I will tell you a secret — not all of us will die! But we will all be changed!
52 It will take but a moment, the blink of an eye, at the finalshofar. For the shofar will sound, and the dead will be raised to live forever, and we too will be changed.
53 For this material which can decay must be clothed with imperishability, this which is mortal must be clothed with immortality.
Revelation 6:12-17
12 Then I watched as he broke the sixth seal, and there was a great earthquake, the sun turned black as sackcloth worn in mourning, and the full moon became blood-red.
13 The stars fell from heaven to earth just as a fig tree drops its figs when shaken by a strong wind.
14 The sky receded like a scroll being rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved from its place.
15 Then the earth’s kings, the rulers, the generals, the rich and the mighty — indeed, everyone, slave and free — hid himself in caves and among the rocks in the mountains,
16 and said to the mountains and rocks,Fall on us, and hide us from the face of the One sitting on the throne and from the fury of the Lamb!
17 For the Great Day of their fury has come, and who can stand?”

Revelation 6:14-17
14 The sky receded like a scroll being rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved from its place.
15 Then the earth’s kings, the rulers, the generals, the rich and the mighty — indeed, everyone, slave and free — hid himself in caves and among the rocks in the mountains,
16 and said to the mountains and rocks,Fall on us, and hide us from the face of the One sitting on the throne and from the fury of the Lamb!
17 For the Great Day of their fury has come, and who can stand?”

This says God on the throne, and the Lamb appear in the sky. This is the time we meet the Lord in the air. The Second Coming is when we return with Christ. The seals, trumpets, and thunderings is only a 3.5 year period. If there is another 3.5 year period, it will be controlled by Satan. We do not want that period to happen. It is not God's Will. If you all want it, you want millions or billions of lost souls to die and go to hell. The Calvinist listened to Satan and think it will happen, because they claim those people were never meant to be saved, God wills some to everlasting fire to be with Satan. 1/3 rd of the angels followed Satan. Calvanism is the doctrine where 1/3 rd of humanity will be dammed in hell with Satan. God so loved the whole world, not willing that any should perish, but all should come to repentance. Now the church is just willing to give up on 1/3rd of humanity?

Time in heaven is the same time on earth. You will have to provide scripture to prove otherwise. There is a Lord's Day. The verse says, there was "silence in heaven". It does not say, a half hour of the Lord's silence.

"When the Lamb broke the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for what seemed like half an hour."


Revelation 7:4
4 I heard how many were sealed — 144,000 from every tribe of the people of Isra’el:


There is an issue with who is and who is not in the Lamb's book of life. Prove to me when people still walking on earth, after the Second Coming, just happened to not have their names written down. Some here think they can persevere, even after the Second Coming. Your proof just stated that those who persevere to the end, never had their names written down ever. They were never going to be saved anyways. So why pray to persevere through the time when Satan and the Mark of the beast 666 is demanded? Can you explain your delima? If you are around when Satan, the False Prophet, and the antichrist are here, your name is not in the Lamb's book of life. You all were never predestined, forenew, nor called. If you are in that crowd, your interpretation sent you to hell. The only hope is having your head chopped off.

The alternative interpretation, is those who received the mark, will have their names removed. What is your interpretation?

I have been accused of spewing rubbish, yet you all preach it is ok for billions of humans to go to hell. Would that not be rubbish instead?

Millions will be saved after the rapture and during the yers of the tribulation but they must try to live under anti-christ rule and be hunted down and killed!
 

Josho

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Yes!! Millions of people that reject the catching up and are left behind on rapture day the day after the rapture will see their huge mistake and will seek God but then they must try to live under anti-christ rule and many will be hunted down and killed.

Hmmm I believe those left behind will be given a 2nd chance during the tribulation, but it will be a lot harder to follow Christ during those times
 

Keraz

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Slow leaners! What a joke.
Just like the fable of the 'rapture to heaven', a fairy tale for the deceived.
Jesus, Paul, and John made it up also.
Please, pretty please; give me ONE scripture that actually says that God will take His people to heaven.
None of those you have posted at great length say that. [We all do have a Bible!]
There is an issue with who is and who is not in the Lamb's book of life. Prove to me when people still walking on earth, after the Second Coming, just happened to not have their names written down.
The army that the Anti-Christ assembles. Revelation 20:7-9
 
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GISMYS_7

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Slow leaners! What a joke.
Just like the fable of the 'rapture to heaven', a fairy tale for the deceived.

Please, pretty please; give me ONE scripture that actually says that God will take His people to heaven.
None of those you have posted at great length say that. [We all do have a Bible!]

The army that the Anti-Christ assembles. Revelation 20:7-9

try to think!! Believers being caught up to meet Jesus is the rapture!!!