Rapture Debate.

[blessedhope]

And I've recently been doing some work with a dear brother for the first time and he's pretty mad at the teaching of the rapture as he sees it as heresy. I think it's good that he feels indignation against something he believes is not in the Scripture. So we've had a few brief chats about it and he understands I'm as resolute about my belief in the rapture as he is that it's a false teaching and today we had our biggest discussion.

My Friend: The rapture teaching is one of the signs of the Antichrist coming because when you people see there is no rapture there will be a great falling away. You people are not prepared for the difficulties of the tribulation and the shock of finding yourself in it will mean many will give up their faith in God.

Me: There's two problems with that notion. The first is, do you know how unpopular the rapture teaching is? Do you know any pastors teaching it because I don't. So if all of us that believe in the rapture fall away, it will hardly be the great falling away or apostasy because no one will notice. But the big issue is thinking that we are believers in the rapture above believing in Christ to save us from our sins. We cling on to Him because we can't live without Him, not because of the rapture. Rapture or no rapture, we love Him.

My friend: The rapture isn't in the Bible and was an idea started by an Irish monk in the 1800's...

Me interrupting: It's been taught through the centuries since AD300 - you just don't know your church history but I'll get you the details.

My friend: jaw drops and stares at me.

Me: So you believe you'll go through the great tribulation but God will protect you?

My Friend: Yes I do just as He protected Israel.

Me: Let me ask you a question. If the only people in heaven are the church and John was the apostle to the church, then how come in heaven when the angel asked John who the great multitude were who were worshiping Jesus, how come John couldn't say, Silly angel, why that's the church? Instead John has no idea. Now they are not Muslims or Hindus or Buddhists or whatever so what does John have to choose from? He's got one choice... the church and he can't figure out how they could be the church! Does that make sense without a previous rapture? Can you explain that? If John had already seen the church raptured, then he's going to be lost for where this multitude came from. Obviously he couldn't says like Pope Franny, Well there's many ways to God! So if there was no rapture how come John can't say, This is the church?

My Friend: open mouth.

My Friend: And what makes you think you are qualified to escape the tribulation for it says through much tribulation we shall enter the kingdom of God. Then he lists many great martyrs of the faith and askes me why I consider myself qualified to escape when they didn't?

Me: You believe that you will go through the tribulation but be protected? (My friend nods yes.) Well if we look at John and the angel again, the angel explains to John that these are they who have gone through the tribulation and no longer will they suffer hunger and thirst and the heat of the sun which are part of the wrath of God. So these believers were not protected from God's judgements and then they lost their lives. Now explain to me what qualifies you to be protected from this tribulation when you gave me a list of great martyrs who were not protected? You can't have it both ways - if I'm not qualified to be raptured you're not qualified to be protected.

But here's the bigger issue: we are both qualified by what Christ did to escape the wrath of God and God promises that the church is not destined for His wrath. Tribulation is something all believers suffer - it's part of the deal and it's the work of Satan. However the wrath of God is the great tribulation and it's not for the church. I'm qualified as a believer to escape because Jesus promises to go to the Father and prepare a place for me and take me to be with Him. He didn't say wait here till I return and I'll sort something out for you down here. So if He went to be with the Father and said we will go up there to be with Him, I'm not looking for Him to come back here.

Me: I have a question for you. If there is no rapture then we must love and pray for our enemies and forgive those who abuse us. We don't call down fire from heaven on them or we would get the rebuke Jesus gave James and John. We repay good for evil and so overcome it. If this is the true teaching of Jesus then when the angel is talking with John about the great multitude, how come when they ask Jesus for His wrath on those who took their lives, how come Jesus didn't tell them to love them and pray for them and forgive them? If there was no rapture then they were still in the age of grace and Jesus must rebuke them just as He did James and John. How come instead Jesus responds that this is indeed the time of wrath? You can't have wrath and grace on the wicked at the same time.

 

[keras]

Just read Ezekiel 34:11-31 and know what God has planned for His sheep; ALL the people who believe in Him.
A rapture to heaven isn't God's plan, having a people that will at last, do what God wanted ancient Israel to do, is. Isaiah 42:6, Isaiah 43:10

The mention of a rapture is in some early writings. Those non Bible based writings of the Gnostics and pseudo Ephraim for example. Trust them?

 

[rockytopva]

Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh. - Matthew 24:44
Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not. - Luke 12:40

But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. - Matthew 24:36
But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father. - Mark 13:32

No man knows of the hour in which we will be caught away. This vague event we call the rapture. The Lord comes as a thief in the night. If I had to pick an end time date I would go with the scientist, Isaac Newton...

And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half. Daniel 12:7

From a folio cataloged as Yahuda MS 7.3g, f. 13v:

"So then the time times & half a time are 42 months or 1260 days or three years & an half, reckoning twelve months to a year & 30 days to a month as was done in the Calendar of the primitive year. And the days of short lived Beasts being put for the years of lived kingdoms, the period of 1260 days, if dated from the complete conquest of the three kings A.C. 800, will end A.C. 2060." - Isaac Newton

As Charlemagne was crowned king on December 25, 800 by Pope Leo the III so the day of Christ's coming will be on Christmas Day, 2060. If the rapture of the saints (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17) occurs seven years before the time of Christs coming the date of the rapture 12.25 2053. However Isaac Newton notes

It may end later, but I see no reason for its ending sooner. This I mention not to assert when the time of the end shall be, but to put a stop to the rash conjectures of fancifull men who are frequently predicting the time of the end, & by doing so bring the sacred prophesies into discredit as often as their predictions fail. Christ comes as a thief in the night, & it is not for us to know the times & seasons which God hath put into his own breast." - Isaac Newton

Before Christ comes the Anti-Christ must be revealed...

Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; - 2 Thessalonians 2:3

Who....

16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six. - Revelation 13:16-18

I traveled to Tahiti the last two weeks and couldn't help but notice all the electronic devices hooked to databases. All you have to do is swipe your passports and all your information comes up. You can even have your iPhone display your ticket information. We are not far away from having everything stored on a universal database in which we will all be required to be tied to! And for most folk this will be just another tattoo1

If I had to pick a timeline I would tie it to Isaac Newton's prediction, understanding that it may happen this very hour....

 

[blessedhope]

And Go, my people, enter your rooms and shut the doors behind you; hide yourselves for a little while until his wrath has passed by.
The Rapture of the true church. Enjoy

 

[keras]

Isaiah 26:20-21 Go My people ....hide yourselves for a little while, until the Lord's wrath has passed. For the Lord is coming from His dwelling place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their sins......

​This prophecy is telling us to take cover and we are also told to pray for protection on the Day of the Lords wrath. Acts 2:21
There is nothing in it about a rapture to heaven. You are mistaken in that belief.

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

Isaiah is written to the Jews.

Acts 2:21 says nothing about hiding.

We are taken up to receive our inheritance.

 

[keras]

Isaiah is written to the Jews.

Acts 2:21 says nothing about hiding.

We are taken up to receive our inheritance.

Rip Isaiah out of your Bible, then.
Acts 2:21 says we must call upon the Lord for protection.
Our inheritance is all the holy Land. Psalm 37:29, Zechariah 8:7-8, Ezekiel 34:11-12

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

Rip Isaiah out of your Bible, then.
Acts 2:21 says we must call upon the Lord for protection.
Our inheritance is all the holy Land. Psalm 37:29, Zechariah 8:7-8, Ezekiel 34:11-12

1. Foolish.
2. Acts 2:21 does not say "protection" and it most certainly does not say 'protection from God's Wrath'.
3. That is for the Jews during the Millennium.

 

[keras]

Of course Marcus doesn't know that Peter was quoting Joel 2:32 in Acts 2:21 otherwise he wouldn't spout his usual wrong refutation.

Joel 2:32 Then, [after the cosmic signs and the great and terrible Day of the Lord comes: Rev. 6:12-17] everyone who invokes the Name of the Lord, [that is: Jesus] will be saved, for in Jerusalem there will be a remnant, [Messianic Jews] and all the survivors whom the Lord shall call. [All true, righteous Christians]

Re item 3: none of the quotes I used say anything about Jews being the only inhabitants of the holy Land. They say: all the Lord's righteous people.

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

Fool. You no more know what I don't know than you know what happens with Isaiah 30:26.
Acts 2:21 does NOT say "protection" during the time when God's Wrath falls upon unrepentant Israel.

Peter does not quote past the first part of Joel 2:32. He does NOT preach this to the Church:
For on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem
There will be those who escape,
As the Lord has said,
Even among the survivors whom the Lord calls.

This is much like Jesus NOT quoting the last part of Isaiah 61:2, the day of vengeance - which relates to His Second Advent, at the start of His First Advent Ministry, which was all about the "year" of the Lord's favor!

Isaiah 61:1 The Spirit of the Lord God is upon me,
Because the Lord has anointed me
To bring good news to the afflicted;
He has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted,
To proclaim liberty to captives
And freedom to prisoners;
2 To proclaim the favorable year of the Lord
And the day of vengeance of our God;
To comfort all who mourn,
3 To grant those who mourn in Zion,
Giving them a garland instead of ashes,
The oil of gladness instead of mourning,
The mantle of praise instead of a spirit of fainting.

Luke 4:16 And He came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up; and as was His custom, He entered the synagogue on the Sabbath, and stood up to read. 17 And the book of the prophet Isaiah was handed to Him. And He opened the book and found the place where it was written,
18 " The Spirit of the Lord is upon ME,
Because HE anointed ME to preach the gospel to the poor.
HE has sent ME to proclaim release to the captives,
And recovery of sight to the blind,
TO set free those who are oppressed,
19 TO proclaim the favorable year of the Lord."
20 And He closed the book, gave it back to the attendant and sat down;

Why didn't Jesus finish THE sentence? He broke it off in mid-sentence! Why didn't He finish that sentence?
Because it didn't apply to His First Advent!

The first half of Joel 2:32 does apply to the Church - because that is when the Dead in Christ are resurrected and the Rapture happens!
It is the "third" time Jesus "saves" us! (First on the cross; second when we believe; and third when He gathers us up.)
The second half of Joel 2:32 does NOT apply to the Church.

You mistake every reference for the Jews for us based on Paul's preaching that we are the Spiritual Israel, natural Israel never was.

Two-thirds of the Jews will die in the one 'seven'.
A Remnant will survive; they will eventually join the Elect as the Sheep at the Second Resurrection.

 

[keras]

Although most Christians are virtually illiterate in terms of accurately understanding New Testament doctrine, as the truth is buried within the historic avalanche of theological development, one of the shortest parables of JESUS CHRIST wonderfully summarizes the entire subject in the most concise language imaginable.
Ironically, perhaps the largest subject ever addressed by Christ is the Kingdom of God; yet His parables on that specific topic are the shortest in the entire Bible. In one of the His most profound statements, we find the following:
"Whereunto shall I liken the kingdom of God? It is like leaven, which a woman took and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened" (Luke 13:20, 21).
Webster's Dictionary uses the phrase "weigh out," or measure, in its definition of the root word dispense; however, such documentation is unnecessary, for common usage tells us the Dispensational system is related to how the LORD dispenses, or measures out salvation. What is truly amazing is how the Dispensational system (known to most as the Rapture theology) specifically designates three stages (or so called “Dispensations”) of salvation within the faulty system.
Sadly, most of those ensnared in the belief system which began in a small European Cult are completely ignorant of systemic theologies which preceded Rapturism, as most of them have been thoroughly indoctrinated to believe there is no other viable view of prophecy. To this end, most "Christians" caught in the Rapture Cult refuse to even consider (or examine for that matter) the compelling historical record which conclusively documents the origin, development, and rise of the Spiritual ruse that is the pre-tribulation Rapture doctrine.
Obviously, Jesus will hold such "believers" accountable for refusing to respond to His own warning concerning just how the Kingdom of God would be leavened (see Matthew 22:11-13 for their fate).
Dispensational teachers tell us the first “Dispensation” was Israel, as seen in the Old Testament and the law. The second alleged "Dispensation" was what is usually called the "Church" age, and the third (and final) of the three is when the "Church" has supposedly been Raptured, and the tribulation then is said to center on Jewish salvation, in the final “Dispensation” of 7 years. Thus, there are three stages of Spiritual "development" in this pattern.
Setting aside the timing verses which clearly place the resurrection of the believers (which would include the "dead in Christ" who will "rise first" in the supposed “Rapture”) at "the last day" (John 6:39, 40, 41, 54), the figure of leaven plainly speaks of sin and iniquity.
What usually confuses rapture believers confronted with the truth is their Dialectical reasoning process, rather than an absolute commitment to the truth of the Gospel. In other words, it doesn't seem possible the Kingdom of God could be diminished, so they evaluate the concept, and reject it based on their conditioning. However, the Word of God never returns void, and it militates that leaven is indeed a figure of a progressive deception which, if not aggressively refuted, will eventually grow until it "leaveneth the whole lump."
The New Testament flatly tells us that leaven is a picture of false doctrine which we are to scrupulously avoid:
"Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees" (Matthew 16:12).
When Paul repeated Christ's warning, and said that leaven would progressively destroy the entire "lump," he used the identical figure of speech (which he used for Israel), in describing them as the original root, or “lump” blessed by God. Speaking of the "casting away" of Israel as being directly associated with the salvation which had come to those who received JESUS CHRIST as their Saviour, he noted how the "lump" of Israel was sanctified as holy before their "branches [were] broken off" (Romans 11:15-17).
Further, the most angry denunciations Jesus ever made were against the religious practices of the Pharisees and the Sadducees -- which He repeatedly identified as the doctrine propagated by the Jewish leaders.
Thus, we see the parable says there are three stages of sinful doctrine in the Antichrist dominated end of the world. The evil doctrine is associated with the “lump” of Israel, and the doctrine put forth by Jews, and it will ultimately compromise the entire loaf, or lump. Since the common denominator in all three "Dispensations" is the blasphemous lie that Israel is chosen by the LORD on a racial basis, rather than Spiritual rebirth in Christ as ably plainly articulated throughout the New Testament, we conclude the Jewish primacy articulated by the Pharisees, and still seen in the Rapture Cult (and several forms of Messianic thought), is the leaven which corrupts the Kingdom of God.
However, we are of "good cheer" for Christ has overcome the world and its Antichrist religion, as God has promised He will always preserve a Remnant -- and that Remnant is a Spiritual body -- not of the so called "Church," as seen in the leavened loaf, but the only Remnant ever identified in Scripture.
“The remnant of Israel shall not do iniquity, nor speak lies; neither shall a deceitful tongue be found in their mouth: for they shall feed and lie down, and none shall make them afraid" (Zephaniah 3:13). Ref: -- James Lloyd

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

the Dispensational system is related to how the LORD dispenses, or measures out salvation. What is truly amazing is how the Dispensational system (known to most as the Rapture theology) specifically designates three stages (or so called “Dispensations”) of salvation within the faulty system.

This is an excellent example of someone (and I guess rabbi keras is quoting this James Lloyd fellow) thoroughly demagogue a subject in a pejorative manner.

There is no response to the Scriptural reference given in the post prior to the diatribe.
There is no Scripture in this post which addresses the passages in the Bible which address the Rapture.

This is just nothing but ranting and raving, attempting to brand Christians who simply disagree with their position as evil, heretical, and cult members.

This is the most disgusting way in which to argue for a position, by attacking your opponents as not truly Christian.
To be sure, there are lots of differences between individual Christians, indeed, even whole different and conflicting doctrines and schools of theology.

Rom 16:17 Now I urge you, brethren, keep your eye on those who cause dissensions and hindrances contrary to the teaching which you learned, and turn away from them. 18 For such men are slaves, not of our Lord Christ but of their own appetites; and by their smooth and flattering speech they deceive the hearts of the unsuspecting.

 

[blessedhope]

K> Dispensational system (known to most as the Rapture theology)> that's so bad I don't even know how you can call yourself a Christian!

 

[blessedhope]

Dispensational system (known to most as the Rapture theology)> >>>I see you have no Ghost for understanding > if YOU CALL YOURSELF A Christ>LIKE >I hAVE TO GO TO THE TOILIT AND PUKE!

 

[keras]

For all you sadly deceived people, understanding [and a better attitude, and better spelling] will only come AFTER the Lord's Day of wrath has woken you up with a severe shaking.

What is the teaching you have learned?
Is it fully supported by scripture? I have yet to see the verses that unambiguously say the Lord will take His people to heaven. Supposition, inference and wishful thinking about a rapture, is quite inadequate for such an important doctrine.

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

Sadly deceived? LOL!

Because Jesus said we're going to be gathered up?
Mt 24:31 And He will send forth His angels with A great trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.
Because when the things Jesus said will come our redemption is coming?
Lk 21:28 But when these things begin to take place, straighten up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near."
Because Paul, who had the Holy Spirit and teaching, spelled it out explicitly for us?
1Th 4:16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.
Because Paul said we should encourage each other with this news?
1Th 4:18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.
You berate others and call them cult members because they read and believe these words and comfort one another that we are not for this world.
Because Jesus told John about the Harvest of souls?
Rev 14:14 Then I looked, and behold, a white cloud, and sitting on the cloud was one like a son of man, having a golden crown on His head and a sharp sickle in His hand. 15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying out with a loud voice to Him who sat on the cloud, " Put in your sickle and reap, for the hour to reap has come, because the harvest of the earth is ripe." 16 Then He who sat on the cloud swung His sickle over the earth, and the earth was reaped.
Because Paul said that the Day of the Lord and our gathering is linked?
2Th 2:Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him,
Because Jesus told John that after the preceding celestial sign of the sun (darkness), moon (foreboding), and stars (Heavenly fireworks!) that a Great Multitude arrive in Heaven?
Rev 7:9 After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palm branches were in their hands; 10 and they cry out with a loud voice, saying,
" Salvation to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb."
(And that throne is the same one in Rev 4:2 - it IS in Heaven!)
And because this same Great Multitude can be heard cheering our Champion on when He goes out to fight the final battle toppling the rule of Man at Armageddon?
Rev 19:1 After these things I heard something like a loud voice of a great multitude in heaven, saying,
" Hallelujah! Salvation and glory and power belong to our God; 2 because His judgments are true and righteous; for He has judged the great harlot who was corrupting the earth with her immorality, and HE has avenged the blood of His bond- servants on her." 3 And a second time they said, " Hallelujah! Her smoke rises up forever and ever."

So silly rabbi: Rapture is for Christians!
You silly old man, your lack of sight means only that you cannot see.
Moreover, what you see is colored weird - and because that is what you see, you think you see the truth.
But you do not.
You are not the truth, nor is the truth in you.

 

[keras]

You rapture believers manage to stack up quite an indictment against yourselves.
Apart from your abuse and accusations against a fellow Christian, James 4:12, you pre judge yourself as worthy of going to heaven.

Then you read into scripture something that is simply not there. None of those verses above say that any living person will be taken to heaven. We know the dead martyrs are there and it is them who make: something LIKE a loud voice.....and Jesus collects their souls, brings them with Him to earth and resurrects them. Revelation 20:4

What IS for true believers, is the great promises of God for them to live in all of the holy Land, soon after the Sixth Seal disaster. Ezekiel 20:34-38

BTW, I may be 74 years young, but I recently hiked 25miles, carrying a 30 pound pack, in 10 hours. And I don't need glasses! And I am capable of refuting false doctrines!

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

Oh it's not there.
Yeah, right, and denial is not just a river in Egypt...
The Great Multitude in Heaven is NOT there! - rabbi keras rants!
a great multitude in heaven - Rev 19:1

Yeah, we rapture cult people make stuff up to delude others.
And no one said they "pre-judged" themselves worthy.
Sort of like a guilty person denies doing something he hasn't been asked about raises suspicion right away.

Hey keras, can two play at your game? I can bench press 325 pounds and I can do over 300 sit-ups in 5 minutes all while whistling Dixie.

 

[brakelite]

The entire ‘Left Behind’ series has become an icon within the walls of evangelical Christianity, and I fear that many who do not study their Bibles carefully enough have taken the authors’ word for all that is written, and presume that all is Biblically based and almost prophetic in itself, despite the authors’ own admission that it is a work of fiction. So how Biblical is it? Is there any basis for believing that countless thousands of people from all walks of life and from all nations, are suddenly going to disappear leaving loved ones, workmates, passengers in planes, buses and taxis, and society as a whole, ‘left behind’ ?
Let us look at those Biblical passages most commonly used in support of the rapture theory, and that form the basis for the ‘left behind’ phenomenom.
As we study these scriptures we must realise that all of them are in the context of prophecy regarding the second coming of Jesus Christ. It is the second advent that climaxes all the above crisis’ and is the focal point of all prophecy.

Matthew 24:37-41 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Now please note carefully what Jesus is saying here. First, the second coming will be affected in precisely the same way as the great flood. The unrighteous will not be aware of the signs of the times, they shall be living at ease, living life as normal with little or no thought of eternity, when they shall be taken all away.

Let us go to the parallel passage in the gospel of Luke. You will note that Luke adds a little more detail giving a slightly different perspective.

Luke 17:26-37 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed. In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back. Remember Lot’s wife. Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it. I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.

The people that Matthew says are taken away, Luke adds that they are destroyed. Thus the ‘taken away’ aspect or context of what Jesus is telling His disciples equates to death or destruction. This is borne out later in Luke’s passage when the disciples ask Him, “where are they taken to?” Jesus answer concerning the gathering of eagles around the carcasse echoes the following:

Revelation 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great. And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

I am beginning to think that being left behind isn’t such a bad alternative. But we shall see. We will now look at another passage and see how consistent Jesus is regarding the subject.

Matthew 13:24-30 ¶ Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field: But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way. But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also. So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares? He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up? But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

A little later Jesus explains the parable to His disciples.

Matthew 13:37-42 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

So let us recap the main points:

• The second coming of Jesus Christ is in like manner as the great flood.
• The wicked, who in Noah’s day were living their normal everyday lives in ignorance and sin, were all taken away by the flood (Matthew 24:39) therefore so also will the wicked be at the second coming.
• They are taken away to their ultimate death, or destruction. (Luke 17:27,29)
• The concept of the wicked being taken is repeated many times. (Matt. 24:39-41; Luke 17:34-36)
• The taking away or removal of the wicked to be destroyed comes before the gathering of the righteous.

Now, let me ask a question. In Noah’s day, after the flood had removed the wicked from the face of the earth and destroyed them all, who was left behind?

Genesis 7:23 And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.

Who was it that was left behind when fire and brimstone fell from heaven and destroyed Sodom and the other cities of the plain? Was it not Lot and his two daughters?

The Left Behind series of books and movies are based on the premise that it would be a terrible thing to be left behind; that to be left behind was to be avoided at all costs. If we are to believe the words of Jesus however it would appear to me that to be left behind, alive and kicking, would be a far better alternative.

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

The entire ‘Left Behind’ series has become an icon within the walls of evangelical Christianity, and I fear that many who do not study their Bibles carefully enough have taken the authors’ word for all that is written, and presume that all is Biblically based and almost prophetic in itself, despite the authors’ own admission that it is a work of fiction. So how Biblical is it? Is there any basis for believing that countless thousands of people from all walks of life and from all nations, are suddenly going to disappear leaving loved ones, workmates, passengers in planes, buses and taxis, and society as a whole, ‘left behind’ ?

This is a strawman argument.

First of all, the "Left Behind" series of books (and a movie or two) is not THE Rapture theory.

All Pre-Millennial eschatologies contain a Rapture. Pre-Millennial eschatology contains the following subsets in order of when they sequence the Rapture:

• Pre-Trib - before the start of the "Tribulation Period" (a misnomer for the one 'seven').
• Mid-Trib - at the midpoint of the "Tribulation Period" - when the abomination is set in place in the one 'seven'.
• Pre-Wrath - after the midpoint abomination and Great Tribulation, but before God's Wrath.
• Post-Trib - at the "last day" of the "Tribulation Period" (or the end of the one 'seven').

The "Left Behind" series is a "Pre-Trib" eschatology, a subset of Pre-Millennial eschatology.

I agree that Pre-Trib is not supported in Scripture.
I agree that there is a Rapture.
Disagreeing with the first does not negate the second.

So just because a strong case can be made against a Pre-Trib Rapture, does not mean there is no Rapture. It just isn't before the one 'seven' starts.