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Rapture Posts

Discussion in 'Eschatology & Prophecy Forum' started by tomwebster, Feb 18, 2009.

  1. tomwebster

    tomwebster New Member

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  2. HammerStone

    HammerStone Well-Known Member Staff Member

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  3. Nivleos

    Nivleos New Member

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    Why all of a sudden have rapture posts been allowed is it to do with 'freedom of speech' or something?
     
  4. HammerStone

    HammerStone Well-Known Member Staff Member

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    Well to be honest about it we had a serious problem with some people who didn't know when to quit. While we do our best to keep this forum open, some folks take upon themselves to flood the forum with statements on a daily basis; those of us who are staff here at CB feel quite strongly about the issue and it came down to how we felt about the instruction given in II John. I realize we hold some "official" positions that are not mainstream and we are pretty easy going when it comes to not agreeing. However, I think the whole "Rapture" issue is something we all see as beyond just a petty disagreement, because, as we've stated, we see the antichrist showing up first and potentially using the Rapture doctrine to his advantage. Unfortunately, there are many folks out there that believe what they believe because they listen to others too quickly and frankly speaking none of us want in on that deceit. In fact, one of the reasons I started this website was to rally against it, because I believe it to be a false and dangerous doctrine.In hindsight, 'banning' the topic was perhaps not the best decision, but at the time it seemed necessary to try and maintain the integrity of discussion yet keep us comfortable with what is allowed here.
     
  5. tim_from_pa

    tim_from_pa New Member

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    QUOTE (Denver @ Feb 24 2009, 11:23 PM)
    Well to be honest about it we had a serious problem with some people who didn't know when to quit. While we do our best to keep this forum open, some folks take upon themselves to flood the forum with statements on a daily basis; those of us who are staff here at CB feel quite strongly about the issue and it came down to how we felt about the instruction given in II John. I realize we hold some "official" positions that are not mainstream and we are pretty easy going when it comes to not agreeing. However, I think the whole "Rapture" issue is something we all see as beyond just a petty disagreement, because, as we've stated, we see the antichrist showing up first and potentially using the Rapture doctrine to his advantage. Unfortunately, there are many folks out there that believe what they believe because they listen to others too quickly and frankly speaking none of us want in on that deceit. In fact, one of the reasons I started this website was to rally against it, because I believe it to be a false and dangerous doctrine.In hindsight, 'banning' the topic was perhaps not the best decision, but at the time it seemed necessary to try and maintain the integrity of discussion yet keep us comfortable with what is allowed here.
    Well, let me state my position on this. In the past two years I've been posting, I've kept quiet about it due to that fact that I know I had friends here that opposed it, so I shut up to keep the peace. But on the other hand, what am I to do with clear scripture teaching about "catching away" such as Enoch, Elijah, Phillip and even the Lord himself? I always believed that whatever the Lord experienced, we will too (i.e. birth, death, resurrection, catching away, attainment to being King, etc). I pride myself on taking scripture at face value, and not to put a spin or song and dance to any interpretation. This is why, for example, I believe in lost tribes because I know the HISTORICAL FACT that they never returned, and yet the bible says thing in Genesis 35:11 about Israelites becoming many nations. I got tired of the conventional "song and dance" around that passage to mean something else. So why should I do the same when it comes to the rapture just because someone dislikes the scripture and I should listen to them? A true non-conformist, which I pride myself in being, sometimes agrees with mainline, and sometimes disagrees. To merely disagree just for the sake that it's mainline shows a negative conformist, and as such is still a conformist. I think the bible truly teaches a "catching away". I can tolerate the timing issue more than whether or not it exists. For example, if it's pre-Trib, did anyone here ever think for themselves that maybe the Antichrist will use that to convince the world of some sort of invasion (like alien abduction) and then that causes people to more easily band together? I thought not. I will not debate with someone who thinks its post-trib, but IMHO (and I have a right to have that) they are into S & M Christianity and cannot realize that their punishment was taken at the cross. The Great Tribulation is God's Wrath against this world. But if anyone wants to take the position that God the Father Himself would spit on His Son by saying that his death was not sufficient for our salvation that Christians have to be "proven" that they have to go thru the Tribulation, then so be it. Makes me wonder if God cannot then determine beforehand who is His and who is not by proving themselves (like a concept of works salvation). I'm not sure that I could believe in a God like that.For anyone else that thinks they will make it thru the Great Tribulation as God's chosen, good luck and you can go thru it if you want. I doubt if you'll make it out alive.
     
  6. Martin W.

    Martin W. New Member

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    I have not been a member here very long but visited often as a guest for several years.I have observed many well presented positions on both sides of the rapture issue.I have also observed some of the best scriptural arguments often came from the re-trib point of view. These reasonably credible people were bashed and flamed or banned or gave up on the forum. Thus active membership has dwindled down to a handfull. Even some of them have left.For this reason the rapture question has been re-opened to try to boost involvement to numbers like the good old days.If the moderators wanted to ban someone they should start with what I call the cut and paste people. Often these folks are losing the theological argument and resort to endless cut and paste , sometimes half the bible to hide behind their failing arguments. Never once are they able to defend a position on their own , in their own words , nor defend a belief.These folks instead rely on such keyword phrases as "do not believe in the doctrines of man" yet that statement in and of itself constitutes a doctrine of man. It has no basis in systematic theology whatsoever. Simply owning a King James Bible and a Strong's Concordance is not systematic theology. Nor is cutting and pasting endless pages. Sorry.A good and true bible study with a healthy debate will cause each one of us to question our beleifs at times. It should serve to make us dig deeper in our own bibles to determine the truth. This is what we should strive for.The proper way to discern scriptural truth on complicated issues is to employ systematic theology. The whole bible is structured as such. The truth will always simmer to the surface. Some doctrinal questions cannot be answered precisely , we are not given enough information. The exact timing of the rapture of the Christian Church is one example.Good healthy debate on both sides of the subject may not nail down the timing , but it should prepare us for either eventuality. This would be a proper bible study.Apologies to the moderators and owners of this forum. My opinions are my own. I have spent a lifetime analyzing people , motives , content , truth , personalities , evidence etc. To analyze this forum and it's history is an easy undertaking.To open this form up to all doctrinal debates may indeed bring life back to it. God himself may even bless it. He certainly has not done so recently. I for one wish you all success.Many thanksMartin W.
     
  7. For Life

    For Life New Member

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    QUOTE
    I think the bible truly teaches a "catching away". I can tolerate the timing issue more than whether or not it exists. For example, if it's pre-Trib, did anyone here ever think for themselves that maybe the Antichrist will use that to convince the world of some sort of invasion (like alien abduction) and then that causes people to more easily band together? I thought not. I will not debate with someone who thinks its post-trib, but IMHO (and I have a right to have that) they are into S & M Christianity and cannot realize that their punishment was taken at the cross. The Great Tribulation is God's Wrath against this world. But if anyone wants to take the position that God the Father Himself would spit on His Son by saying that his death was not sufficient for our salvation that Christians have to be "proven" that they have to go thru the Tribulation, then so be it. Makes me wonder if God cannot then determine beforehand who is His and who is not by proving themselves (like a concept of works salvation). I'm not sure that I could believe in a God like that.
    There have been a lot of tribulations throughout history. God has used them all for His glory. I think He could use the last one the same way. I don't think tribulations affect salvation at all except for the fact that it gets people to think about God more often than they normally would. Is that really a bad thing? Maybe it will bring more people to salvation.
     
  8. watchman

    watchman New Member

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    QUOTE (Denver @ Feb 24 2009, 11:23 PM)
    Well to be honest about it we had a serious problem with some people who didn't know when to quit. While we do our best to keep this forum open, some folks take upon themselves to flood the forum with statements on a daily basis; those of us who are staff here at CB feel quite strongly about the issue and it came down to how we felt about the instruction given in II John. I realize we hold some "official" positions that are not mainstream and we are pretty easy going when it comes to not agreeing. However, I think the whole "Rapture" issue is something we all see as beyond just a petty disagreement, because, as we've stated, we see the antichrist showing up first and potentially using the Rapture doctrine to his advantage. Unfortunately, there are many folks out there that believe what they believe because they listen to others too quickly and frankly speaking none of us want in on that deceit. In fact, one of the reasons I started this website was to rally against it, because I believe it to be a false and dangerous doctrine.In hindsight, 'banning' the topic was perhaps not the best decision, but at the time it seemed necessary to try and maintain the integrity of discussion yet keep us comfortable with what is allowed here.
    I totally agree the pretrib false doctrine is very dangerous, and not benign at all, like the ''it will all pan out people claim''P.S. I didn't even know there was a ban on the issue...lol...Where have I been?
     
  9. HammerStone

    HammerStone Well-Known Member Staff Member

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    Not sure where you were, watchman. [​IMG]Just to reiterate it is lifted, but I'll ask folks to work within reason. The ultimate position of this site and the staff here is that there is indeed no (pre-tribulational) Rapture, and it we will do our best to convey that keeping II John in mind.
     
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