1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured Rapture Top Dogs Admit no Proof Exists.

Discussion in 'Eschatology & Prophecy Forum' started by Dave L, Mar 26, 2019.

Tags:
  1. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    7,840
    Likes Received:
    2,591
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Rapture Top Dogs Admit no Proof Exists.

    Anyone looking for direct scripture support of the famed Pre-Trib Rapture will come up empty handed. Admits Rapture heavyweight John Walvoord in his book called The Rapture Question (Findlay, OH:1957, p.148). He agrees with G. E. Ladd saying;

    "Ladd, in contrast to Jones, concedes that post-tribulalional rapture is an inference rather than an explicit revelation of Scripture in the following statement:

    "Nor does the Word explicitly place the Rapture at the end of the Tribulation."

    “The fact is that neither posttribulalionism nor pretribulationisim is an explicit teaching of Scripture. The Bible does not in so many words state either.”

    “Pretribulationism is based on the fact that it allows a harmony of the Scriptures relating to the Second Advent.”

    “The separation of the translation from the return of Christ to earth permits each of the two events so different in character, to have its own place.”

    “It solves the problem of the confusing and contradictory details in the post-tribulational interpretation illustrated in the difficulty of the postribulationist's themselves to work out a harmony of prophecies related to the second advent."

    Another Rapture heavy-weight, Tim LaHaye says the same:

    "One objection to the pre-Tribulation Rapture is that not one passage of Scripture teaches the two aspects of His Second Coming separated by the Tribulation. This is true. But then, no one passage teaches a post-trib or mid-trib Rapture, either."

    Tim LaHaye, No Fear of the Storm: Why Christians Will Escape All the Tribulation (Sisters, OR: Multnomah, 1992), 69. This book was later republished as Rapture Under Attack). “That’s Not in the Bible” Gary DeMar

    So despite the fact millions of books claiming the rapture flew off the shelves in the face of the failed prophecies surrounding them, why do millions of Christians believe as scripture truth the claims put forth by these?

    If you believe in the pre-trib rapture, how do you support it with scripture when these cannot?
     
  2. Stranger

    Stranger Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    7,272
    Likes Received:
    2,235
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    This is no different than the teaching of the Trinity. There is no clear expression in the Scripture that God is a Trinity made up of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

    The Jews will tell you there is no clear teaching of the two comings of Christ in their Scripture, Old Testament, either.

    So, what exactly are you against? The Rapture or the Pre-Trib-Rapture?

    Stranger
     
  3. Mike Dwight

    Mike Dwight Member

    Messages:
    132
    Likes Received:
    14
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Did you guys Actually Read Revelation, right? I need to talk to people that read Revelation. What about the 144,000 first sealed? OK first there's 7 Bowls and 7 Trumpets of judgment. Every bowl has a calamity, I believe. I Think that those living and Dead meeting Christ At That Time, well you skipped the Tribulation in that sense, if you're dead? There is a persecuted Church that faces a tribulation that is Then to Perservere and meet Christ. I do agree, the media is getting heavy and annoying about pre-trib, and then typically, not a sentence of scripture.
     
    successemmanuel2019 likes this.
  4. Waiting on him

    Waiting on him Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,939
    Likes Received:
    1,088
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    If we are in Christ we are already dead.
     
  5. Willie T

    Willie T Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,282
    Likes Received:
    3,858
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    I still would love to know how so many of you come up with a future EVENT you call "THE" Tribulation — or worse yet, "THE" Great Tribulation — when all Jesus ever did was warn those people living at the same moment in time that He lived on Earth, (the ones standing right there in front of Him, listening to Him), that in the days coming, they were going to experience "great tribulation." (That means, "a lot of trouble.") Which they did.
     
  6. Waiting on him

    Waiting on him Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,939
    Likes Received:
    1,088
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    It’s good to know the great tribulation is over
     
  7. Willie T

    Willie T Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,282
    Likes Received:
    3,858
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    I wish "tribulation for being a Christian" WAS over. Unfortunately, Jesus told us it never will be. He said it was going to begin way back then, and continue for as long as the Earth does. But, it is not a future EVENT that we are waiting to happen for a few years.
     
  8. Willie T

    Willie T Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,282
    Likes Received:
    3,858
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    We humans (especially us in modern times) have a tendency to try and make everything mentioned in the Bible into a future "major event", prepared just for this special generation. We are simply told we will be "caught up to Him".... the manner of how we will finally join Him. But, we seem to need so badly to make it into a secret "Escape Pod" rescue from something we were never told is even coming, at all.
     
    Hisman, "ByGrace" and Waiting on him like this.
  9. Waiting on him

    Waiting on him Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,939
    Likes Received:
    1,088
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    It’s very narrow minded
     
    Willie T likes this.
  10. farouk

    farouk Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,144
    Likes Received:
    3,067
    The point is, rather, who are the various passages talking about?

    What is the context for the church, for tribulation saints and for Israel? These contexts matter; it's not a matter of Scripture dismissing everything about careful, dispensational Bible study.
     
  11. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    7,840
    Likes Received:
    2,591
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    This is what I've learned so far about Dispensationalism. Not one scripture directly supports any of their prophecies about the future.
    The Jesuits created a gap in the 70 weeks that scripture does not support. They turned Jesus who fulfilled the 70 weeks into Antichrist and made the 70th week still future. All in an effort to rid the Papacy of being the Antichrist according to scripture and the Reformers. And then they shop the scriptures trying to recreate the world as it was when Jesus fulfilled the 70th week in his earthly ministry, only in the future. For this they must recreate a (restored) Roman Empire, a tribulation which already happened in AD 70. A temple, animal sacrifices and so on. All false prophecy with no direct support from scripture.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2019
    GerhardEbersoehn and Willie T like this.
  12. farouk

    farouk Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,144
    Likes Received:
    3,067
    Who are the passages about? only if you lump together the church, Israel and the tribulation saints does one get an amorphous event and entity.
     
  13. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    7,840
    Likes Received:
    2,591
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    They also divide God's one people Israel, into two peoples, the church and Israel. But Jesus and the Church are Israel and the unbelievers whom Christ removed are now gentiles by default. The question is "to whom does God graft the broken off Jews into when they believe, if they are Israel?"
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2019
    Hisman and Willie T like this.
  14. farouk

    farouk Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,144
    Likes Received:
    3,067
    This does not take into account all that happened at Pentecost, the distinction between a heavenly people and an earthly people, the coming of the Lord for his saints in the air / with His saints to reign, etc. Lumping all these aspects together is totally inadequate, according to my dispensational reading of Scripture.

    This is all going round and round.
     
  15. "ByGrace"

    "ByGrace" Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    10,744
    Likes Received:
    12,320
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Canada
    Yay! Good post :)

    .... thumbup1[1].gif
     
  16. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    7,840
    Likes Received:
    2,591
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    You add to scripture turning God's one people into two.
     
    Naomi25 likes this.
  17. farouk

    farouk Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,144
    Likes Received:
    3,067
    Look at Hebrews.
     
  18. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    7,840
    Likes Received:
    2,591
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Spell it out.
     
    Willie T likes this.
  19. farouk

    farouk Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,144
    Likes Received:
    3,067
    The message of Hebrews is, How can one go back to being preferably a Jewish entity - with all its ceremonies and law-keeping - when fulness of revelation is enjoyed in Christ by the church?
     
  20. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    7,840
    Likes Received:
    2,591
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Paul and the apostles witnessed to the last circumcised generation of physical biblical Jews. After they died off, nothing remained to make one a Jew, biblically speaking. The real Jews and Israel accepted Jesus and into these believing gentiles were grafted. Into the space left by the broken off unbelievers. God never had more than one people. More proof comes as the broken off will be grafted into the Israel of God upon receiving Christ.
     
    GerhardEbersoehn and Naomi25 like this.
Loading...