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Reasoning together in the holy spirit

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by univac, Nov 20, 2008.

  1. univac

    univac New Member

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    What is your reasoning?Matthew 24:29:3129Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not shed its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.(See also Mark 13:24:25 and Revelation 6:12:13)30Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn and beat their breasts and lament in anguish, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory [in brilliancy and splendour. See also Mark 13:2631 And he will send out His angels with a load trumpet call, and they will gather His chosen from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. See also Mark 13:27As fellow christians in the holy spirit, what are your resonings of these questions through the Holy Bible.?1 Who are the first fruits?2 Who have came out after the great tribulation?3 What is it mean"t by the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not shed its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.?4 When will we see the lord coming down on the clouds of heaven with great power and great glory, before or after the tribulation?5 When will the lord Rapture his chosen one's from the four corners of the earth, after or before the tribulation.God bless always
     
  2. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    What is your reasoning?Matthew 24:29:3129Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not shed its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.(See also Mark 13:24:25 and Revelation 6:12:13)30Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn and beat their breasts and lament in anguish, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory [in brilliancy and splendour. See also Mark 13:2631 And he will send out His angels with a load trumpet call, and they will gather His chosen from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. See also Mark 13:27As fellow christians in the holy spirit, what are your resonings of these questions through the Holy Bible.?1 Who are the first fruits?2 Who have came out after the great tribulation?3 What is it mean"t by the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not shed its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.?4 When will we see the lord coming down on the clouds of heaven with great power and great glory, before or after the tribulation?5 When will the lord Rapture his chosen one's from the four corners of the earth, after or before the tribulation.God bless always
    This is NO Rapture in God's Words. It is telling us that Christ (Son of Man) will come back after Satan deceives the whole world (Revelation 12:9) claiming to be God. (Ezekiel 28:2, Ezekiel 28:6, Isaiah 12:14, John 17:12, II Thessalonians 2:3-4) That time comes AFTER the tribulation (Matthew 24:29-30, Mark 13:24-26)1. The elects2. Jesus Christ, the Son of the Living God3. Can't be sure4. No man knoweth the day, or the hour that Christ is coming back, not even Christ knows, (Matthew 25:13, Mark 13:32) but the bible clearly states that Christ will come back last. (I Corinthians 15:52, I Thessalonians 4:16-17, Revelation 11:15)5. Again, No rapture exist in God's Words. (Ezekiel 13:20)
     
  3. univac

    univac New Member

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    Thank you Jordan for your reasoning in the Holy Spirit.God bless
     
  4. tomwebster

    tomwebster New Member

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    ...4. No man knoweth the day, or the hour that Christ is coming back, not even Christ knows, (Matthew 25:13, Mark 13:32) but the bible clearly states that Christ will come back last. (I Corinthians 15:52, I Thessalonians 4:16-17, Revelation 11:15)...
    Jordan, I beleive we can know, not the exact time, but close. Mar 13:23 But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things. Mat 16:15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? Mat 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.I believe the Father in heaven can and will tell us when it will happen. Just as a doctor can tell a pregnant woman, within a short period of time that her child will be born. He does not tell her the exact minute, but the closer the birth comes the closer the doctor can get to saying ther time, ie. such and such a day. or within the next 12 hours
     
  5. epistemaniac

    epistemaniac New Member

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    What is your reasoning?Matthew 24:29:3129Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not shed its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.(See also Mark 13:24:25 and Revelation 6:12:13)30Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn and beat their breasts and lament in anguish, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory [in brilliancy and splendour. See also Mark 13:2631 And he will send out His angels with a load trumpet call, and they will gather His chosen from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. See also Mark 13:27As fellow christians in the holy spirit, what are your resonings of these questions through the Holy Bible.?1 Who are the first fruits?2 Who have came out after the great tribulation?3 What is it mean"t by the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not shed its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.?4 When will we see the lord coming down on the clouds of heaven with great power and great glory, before or after the tribulation?5 When will the lord Rapture his chosen one's from the four corners of the earth, after or before the tribulation.God bless always
    1 Who are the first fruits?1 Corinthians 15:20 (ESV) But in fact Christ has been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. Romans 8:23 (ESV) And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. Romans 11:15-16 (ESV) Ro 15 For if their rejection means the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance mean but life from the dead? 16 If the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, so is the whole lump, and if the root is holy, so are the branches. 1 Corinthians 15:20-24 (ESV) 1Co 20 But in fact Christ has been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For as by a man came death, by a man has come also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ. 24 Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power. 2 Thessalonians 2:13 (ESV) But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the firstfruits to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth. James 1:18 (ESV) Of his own will he brought us forth by the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures. Revelation 14:4-5 (ESV) Rev 4 It is these who have not defiled themselves with women, for they are virgins. It is these who follow the Lamb wherever he goes. These have been redeemed from mankind as firstfruits for God and the Lamb, 5 and in their mouth no lie was found, for they are blameless. 2 Who have came out after the great tribulation?What “great tribulation” are you referring to…? The one spoken of in the Bible, that Jesus prophesied where the Romans sacked Jerusalem in 70AD?Came out from where…. To where…?3 What is it meant by the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not shed its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.?I think it means that the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not shed its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. [​IMG] In all seriousness….. “The picture is very vivid. While the earth is drenched with the blood of the saints in the most terrible tribulation of all time, all at once the sun becomes darkened. Naturally the moon now also ceases to give her light. The stars deviate from their orbits and race to their doom; they "fall from heaven." The powers of the heaven are shaken. Terrifying sounds are heard. There is "the roaring of the sea and the billows," causing perplexity among men. People faint with fear and with foreboding of what is beginning to happen to the world (Luke 21:25, 26).In connection with this apocalyptic picture strict literalness must be avoided. Until this prophetic panorama becomes history we shall probably not know how much of this description must be taken literally and how much figuratively. That at least some of it must be taken literally is clear from 2 Peter 3:10. —Baker New Testament Commentary4 When will we see the lord coming down on the clouds of heaven with great power and great glory, before or after the tribulation?There have been many tribulations, and many more will come, no man knows the day or the hour when the Son will return.5 When will the lord Rapture his chosen one's from the four corners of the earth, after or before the tribulation.I don’t believe in the Rapture theory, I do not think Dispensational Premillennialism has it right at all. It is interesting to me that no one in church history, until the late 1800’s EVER believed in the rapture theory. Now the reverse is true, it’s almost as if that if you deny the secret rapture/dual coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, you are viewed as a heretic “who doesn’t really believe the Bible”. But that means that for almost 2000 years the church never believed in a secret rapture/dual coming! It was not until JN Darby listened to the words of an occultist and spiritualist that he began to teach the rapture doctrine. Of course, from him it spread quickly into America, and people like Lewis Sperry Chafer, C. I. Scofield, and modern teachers whom I respect very much, but disagree with… godly men like John MacArthur, Chuck Swindoll, David Jeremiah, and of course the most visible popularize of this doctrine, Tim Lahaye and Jerry Jenkins in their fictional account “Left Behind” and its many sequels. Also, I graduated from a college that very passionately believes and teaches this doctrine, and I was taught this doctrine by men of God whom I respect a great deal. But I feel I really know what it is that Dispensationalism teaches in regard to eschatology, and after having looked at Amil and Postmil, I feel as if Amil has more to commend it biblically than the Premil position. But I deeply respect those whose eschatology is Dispensational Premil....IMHOBlessings,Ken
     
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