Refuting Penal Substitution Jesus Did NOT Satisfy the Wrath of God On The Cross!!

[DoveSpirit05]

We obviously know dat Gods wrath is his cup of indignation.

did jesus satisfy the wrath of God? Know don’t be 2 hasty and comment based opinions, on what ur church has taught u, wat uv herd off the pulpit or wat manly tradition says, if u look (deep) into the bible you wont find where jesus (satify’s) or drinks from the cup of Gods wrath.

John 18:11
Then said Jesus unto Peter, Put up thy sword into the sheath: the cup which my Father hath given me, shall I not drink it?

Ull Only find where jesus provided a substitute 2 wave Gods wrath instead, there 2 different things, Gods wrath still remains just look at scripture,


Revelation 14:9-10 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:


Acts 12:23 God smote king herod for not giving him glory. Acts 5 Ananias and Sapphira struck down dead for holding back the money from God!!


Romans 1:18 the wrath of God is revealed from heaven


Romans 2:5-8 they treasure up wrath for the day of judgment!!


Colossians 3:6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:


So we sea throughout the new testament especially revelations where Gods wrath is being poured out onto sinners with the releasing of the seals.


Cup of Gods wrath has not been emptied, Cup of wrath is still full folks even after the cross.

If Gods wrath was satisfied at the cross then why is he still pouring out his wrath on people?

 

[Renniks]

Hmmm...not saying dat, I mean that you aren't partially right, but Isaiah does indeed indicate that God was pleased to crush Christ on the cross. From my point of view, this is not some kind of cosmic child abuse, but a collaboration between Father and son on behalf of humanity. So it's not just the father pouring out wrath, but the son embracing our punishment.
Jesse Morrel makes me ill, BTW, can not stand to watch him.

 

[DoveSpirit05]

just 2 add.....

If jesus satisified the wrath of God theres no more need of forgiveness of sins, jesus would have paid off our debt. But yet God still requires servitude, obedience because our debts havnt completely gone he just turns his face at them, matt 6:12 father forgive us our debts.


Through Christ we have the forgiveness of sin eph 1:7 that God may have mercy on us, not that they’ve vanish away.
If all sins are paid 4 then theres no more mercy 2 give, mercy is when God doesn’t give us wat we deserve, its when he turns away from giving us wrath like the Passover.

 

[Renniks]

If jesus satisified the wrath of God theres no more need of forgiveness of sins, jesus would have paid off our debt.

He did pay off our debt. But there are conditions we have to meet to be given this gift.

 

[Nancy]

We obviously know dat Gods wrath is his cup of indignation.

did jesus satisfy the wrath of God? Know don’t be 2 hasty and comment based opinions, on what ur church has taught u, wat uv herd off the pulpit or wat manly tradition says, if u look (deep) into the bible you wont find where jesus (satify’s) or drinks from the cup of Gods wrath.

John 18:11
Then said Jesus unto Peter, Put up thy sword into the sheath: the cup which my Father hath given me, shall I not drink it?

Ull Only find where jesus provided a substitute 2 wave Gods wrath instead, there 2 different things, Gods wrath still remains just look at scripture,


Revelation 14:9-10 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:


Acts 12:23 God smote king herod for not giving him glory. Acts 5 Ananias and Sapphira struck down dead for holding back the money from God!!


Romans 1:18 the wrath of God is revealed from heaven


Romans 2:5-8 they treasure up wrath for the day of judgment!!


Colossians 3:6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:


So we sea throughout the new testament especially revelations where Gods wrath is being poured out onto sinners with the releasing of the seals.


Cup of Gods wrath has not been emptied, Cup of wrath is still full folks even after the cross.

If Gods wrath was satisfied at the cross then why is he still pouring out his wrath on people?

Hello Dove,
This might be elementary and maybe not well worded but...I see the wrath of God poured out only on those who do not have Christ. His wrath was taken out on His only Son for those who became believers in Him and follow Him and His two commands. Yes, God still has much wrath to be poured out but, not on His children but only those who did not accept His Truth, His Word. We are not to fear as, fear denotes judgement and, Christians will not be judged concerning salvation (as long as we finish the race set before us) but, I see much wrath being prepared and accomplished for those who oppose God's ways.

 

[bbyrd009]

Who told you that you were naked?

yikes, what a Taskmaster, eh, what a "Lord"
lol

 

[DoveSpirit05]

He did pay off our debt. But there are conditions we have to meet to be given this gift.

show me scripture?

 

[Enoch111]

Refuting Penal Substitution Jesus Did NOT Satisfy the Wrath of God On The Cross!!

More heretical nonsense on this forum.

 

[Enoch111]

Who told you that you were naked? yikes, what a Taskmaster, eh, what a "Lord"
lol

Another IED from bbyrd009.

 

[Renniks]

show me scripture?

He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. By his wounds you have been healed. 1 Peter 2:24

For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.
1 Corinthians 6:20

But he was wounded for our transgressions; he was crushed for our iniquities; upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace, and with his stripes we are healed.
Isaiah 53:5

He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world. 1 John 2:2

 

[bbyrd009]

what is my inheritance to me? Give me some of that red stuff, or i will die!

 

[bbyrd009]

Another IED from bbyrd009.

View attachment 8633

yeh, pertinent Scripture tends to do that to some ppl i guess?
easier than facing the mirror or something? i dont quite get it

funny, atheists and agnostics usually get it right away lol
how weird is that

 

[DoveSpirit05]

referring 2 earlier posts and in general, see people wanna come on here and spout their own opinion and do drive by's but they will never engage with my OPs or the videos dat I put up if they did they'll find dat a lot the points they bring up have already been addressed in iver the OP or the videos but u wont take the time 2 read or explore!!

 

[DoveSpirit05]

Hello Dove,
This might be elementary and maybe not well worded but...I see the wrath of God poured out only on those who do not have Christ. His wrath was taken out on His only Son for those who became believers in Him and follow Him and His two commands. Yes, God still has much wrath to be poured out but, not on His children but only those who did not accept His Truth, His Word. We are not to fear as, fear denotes judgement and, Christians will not be judged concerning salvation (as long as we finish the race set before us) but, I see much wrath being prepared and accomplished for those who oppose God's ways.

do u know wat penal substantiation actually is? I want a civil discourse with you plus I think u should watch the vid I believe it wud be very beneficial!! or at least couple mins, im not forcing tho!

 

[Cooper]

We obviously know dat Gods wrath is his cup of indignation.

did jesus satisfy the wrath of God? Know don’t be 2 hasty and comment based opinions, on what ur church has taught u, wat uv herd off the pulpit or wat manly tradition says, if u look (deep) into the bible you wont find where jesus (satify’s) or drinks from the cup of Gods wrath.

John 18:11
Then said Jesus unto Peter, Put up thy sword into the sheath: the cup which my Father hath given me, shall I not drink it?

Ull Only find where jesus provided a substitute 2 wave Gods wrath instead, there 2 different things, Gods wrath still remains just look at scripture,


Revelation 14:9-10 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:


Acts 12:23 God smote king herod for not giving him glory. Acts 5 Ananias and Sapphira struck down dead for holding back the money from God!!


Romans 1:18 the wrath of God is revealed from heaven


Romans 2:5-8 they treasure up wrath for the day of judgment!!


Colossians 3:6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:


So we sea throughout the new testament especially revelations where Gods wrath is being poured out onto sinners with the releasing of the seals.


Cup of Gods wrath has not been emptied, Cup of wrath is still full folks even after the cross.

If Gods wrath was satisfied at the cross then why is he still pouring out his wrath on people?

God does not fail. This is how He did it.

God became one of us in order to redeem us from the guilt and penalty of our sin. And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth’ ‘(John 1:14).

God as God could not forgive us for our sins unless our sins were fully paid for; otherwise He would have been a condoner and protector of the violation of His own holy law. It was only as a man that God in Christ could furnish satisfaction sufficient to atone for the sins of mankind; for only a man, a true human being, could properly represent the human race.

But at the same time our Redeemer had to be God, for only God could furnish a sacrifice of infinite value, to compensate for the penalty of eternal hell that our sin demands, according to the righteous claims of divine justice. Only God could have devised a way of salvation that made it possible for Him to remain Just and at the same time become the Justifier of the ungodly and instead of sending them to the everlasting perdition they deserved it was the perfect Man who was also infinite God that furnished an effectual sacrifice for all believers of every age.

(Gleason Archer)

 

[Nancy]

do u know wat penal substantiation actually is? I want a civil discourse with you plus I think u should watch the vid I believe it wud be very beneficial!! or at least couple mins, im not forcing tho!

"do u know wat penal substantiation actually is?"

Yes, of course I know what it is. He took our place on that cross...He payed our penalty for sin. His wrath has been stored up for "The children of disobedience" I cannot put Christians in this category, these are the un-believers being talked abut here. They did not accept the FREE gift of Jesus sacrifice for their sins so, they still carry them around and they condemn them to be forever separated from God.

 

[bbyrd009]

referring 2 earlier posts and in general, see people wanna come on here and spout their own opinion and do drive by's but they will never engage with my OPs or the videos dat I put up if they did they'll find dat a lot the points they bring up have already been addressed in iver the OP or the videos but u wont take the time 2 read or explore!!

ha, i thought i was agreeing with you
yes, No son of man may die for another's sins;

i just differ with the vid on the rep of Yahs "cup of wrath" in the "future," where most believers project the supposed "events" of The Revelation
wadr

 

[DoveSpirit05]

"do u know wat penal substantiation actually is?"

Yes, of course I know what it is. He took our place on that cross...He payed our penalty for sin. His wrath has been stored up for "The children of disobedience" I cannot put Christians in this category, these are the un-believers being talked abut here. They did not accept the FREE gift of Jesus sacrifice for their sins so, they still carry them around and they condemn them to be forever separated from God.

he never took our place that's what i'm trying 2 explain 2 u, scripture doesn't say dat!! plz try and engage wiv wat iv said and scripture and not what every else is saying!! majority doesn't equal right!! he was the sacrificial lamb that was offered up!! Isaiah 52:13-53:13
he became the propitiation, which means (substitute) 2 (satisfy) Gods judgement not 2 completely vanquish our debts.

the punishment 4 sin is (death) if Christ would have taken (our punishment) he wud hav died and never rose again and wud hav went 2 (perdition) for our sins du get it? Gods cup of wrath is 2 destroy and send 2 hell as I mentioned b4 herod, anania and sapphira and also judas.

jesus says clearly I will not drink from Gods cup of wrath john 18:11 is jesus a liar?

I mean u can outline my question as a heading and assert dat u know infront of the audience like its a competition but I don't believe u understand the full gist's of what jesus did on the cross, I think ur just following the multitude, if not prove me wrong? im not here 4 ego im here 2 engage and 2 learn!!

 

[Nancy]

he never took our place that's what i'm trying 2 explain 2 u, scripture doesn't say dat!! plz try and engage wiv wat iv said and scripture and not what every else is saying!! majority doesn't equal right!! he was the sacrificial lamb that was offered up!! Isaiah 52:13-53:13
he became the propitiation, which means (substitute) 2 (satisfy) Gods judgement not 2 completely vanquish our debts.

the punishment 4 sin is (death) if Christ would have taken (our punishment) he wud hav died and never rose again and wud hav went 2 (perdition) for our sins du get it? Gods cup of wrath is 2 destroy and send 2 hell as I mentioned b4 herod, anania and sapphira and also judas.

jesus says clearly I will not drink from Gods cup of wrath john 18:11 is jesus a liar?

I mean u can outline my question as a heading and assert dat u know infront of the audience like its a competition but I don't believe u understand the full gist's of what jesus did on the cross, I think ur just following the multitude, if not prove me wrong? im not here 4 ego im here 2 engage and 2 learn!!

"Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed." 1 Peter 2:24

"But He was pierced for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon Him, and by His stripes we are healed. 6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. "
Isaiah 53:5-6

1 Peter 2:21, 24-25

21"For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:"

24 "Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls."

When Peter says, very clearly in verse 21 by "Christ suffered for you." He meant, "Christ bore our sins in his body on the cross." Christ's suffering was the agony of being nailed to the cross and dying there. And his suffering "for us" was his bearing our sins. It was a substitution. He bore them in death instead of our having to bear them in death. It's the fulfillment of Isaiah 53:6.

 

[Renniks]

explain 2 u, scripture doesn't say dat!! plz try and engage wiv wat iv said and scripture and not what every else is saying!! majority doesn't equal right!! he was the sacrificial lamb that was offered up!! Isaiah 52:13-15:13
he became the propitiation, which means (substitute) 2 (satisfy) Gods judgement not 2 completely vanquish our debts.

Substitute equals taking our place. I think you are splitting hairs.