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(Refuting) The (Original Sin) Doctrine!!

Discussion in 'Bible Study Forum' started by DoveSpirit05, Dec 26, 2019.

  1. Jodi

    Jodi Member

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    Hi Dave,

    I gave you many scriptures that go directly against your belief. Now you have a list of scriptures that you think prove your belief, and I say that they don't, and the bible doesn't give contradiction. You apply pagan definitions and beliefs to words which makes you go in error.

    Here is OT and NT for you, before we get to Matt 10:28.

    Psalm 16:8 I always keep the LORD in front of me. When he is by my side, I cannot be moved. 9 That is why my heart is glad and my soul rejoices. My body rests securely 10 because you do not abandon my soul to the grave or allow your holy one to decay.

    Acts 2: 26 Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope: 27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

    Soul - Psuche - breath, the breath of life

    Hell - Hades - the grave (or Dave do you want to define it according to pagans?...the god of the lower regions, the nether world, realm of the dead?)

    1 Cornithians 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

    Grave - Hades - the grave

    Isaiah 38:18 For
    the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth.

    Ecclesiastes 9:10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.

    Psalms 146:4
    His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.

    Luke 13:3
    I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

    Perish - Apollumi - to destroy, to put out of the way entirely


    Matt 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

    Hell - Geenna - the valley of Hinnom, south of Jerusalem, where the filth and dead animals of the city were cast out and burned

    Soul - Psuche - breath, the breath of life

    Matt 10:39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.

    Life - Psuche-
    breath, the breath of life

    Dave, Jesus's words is that you LOSE your SOUL/LIFE, those that are his though they LOSE their SOUL/LIFE, they are promised to find it again, at his second coming to be exact. So don't fear man, for if
    you are in Christ and a man kills you there is nothing to fear, as it is God that has power over your LIFE/soul, He can raise it up again.

    Man can kill you but he is not who you should fear, man does not have power over the breath of life. If you die in Christ, the fact that man killed you has no power over you, or your life. God holds the power of the breath of life, He has power the power to raise it up again giving you the reward of eternal life.

    You say "the soul" continues on after death. NO!
    Your soul/life as Jesus says is LOST, taken away, Jesus says you LOSE IT, but it is God that can give you LIFE/make you a living soul/creature again.

    READ,

    28
    And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. 29 Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father. 30 But the very hairs of your head are all numbered. 31 Fear ye not therefore, ye are of more value than many sparrows. 32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven. 33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven. 34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. 35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. 36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household. 37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. 38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me. 39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it. 40 He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me. 41 He that receiveth a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet's reward; and he that receiveth a righteous man in the name of a righteous man shall receive a righteous man's reward.

    Matthew 16:25
    For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life/Psuche for my sake shall find it. 26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul? 27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

    John 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; 27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man. 28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

     
  2. Jodi

    Jodi Member

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    Dave, what on earth are you talking about it does not exist in the NT??

    Jesus IS the Son of Man/HUMAN ANTHROPOS, who sits on the right hand of God.

    Acts 7:56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.

    Acts 13: 38 Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:

    Dave, it is a HUMAN that is returning to judge you!

    Acts 17:31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

    Matthew 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

    You are told that Jesus is the last Adam/human, Jesus is the heavenly man/human.

    You just want to ignore all these scriptures?

    Rev 21:3
    And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men/HUMANS, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

    Ezekiel 11:18 And they shall come thither, and they shall take away all the detestable things thereof and all the abominations thereof from thence. 19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh: 20 That they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God.


    Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. 15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. 16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: 17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

    WHO IS CHRIST?
    Rev 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

    Luke 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

    1 Chronicles 17:11
    And it shall come to pass, when thy days be expired that thou must go to be with thy fathers, that I will raise up thy seed after thee, which shall be of thy sons; and I will establish his kingdom. 12 He shall build me an house, and I will stablish his throne for ever. 13 I will be his father, and he shall be my son: and I will not take my mercy away from him, as I took it from him that was before thee: 14 But I will settle him in mine house and in my kingdom for ever: and his throne shall be established for evermore.

    Acts 13:22
    And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will. 23 Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:

    Acts 2:30
    Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;

    Romans 1:1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, 2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,) 3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; 4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, ACCORDING to the Spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

    Acts 13:33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in
    that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee. 34 And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David.
     
  3. historyb

    historyb Well-Known Member

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    Not at all. Just because I do not go by your ideas does not remote mean I deny Scriptures. I acknowledge those verse yet neither of them tells one to just go by the Bible, such ideas are purely man made and not from God. Indeed you evangelicals think that you have eternal life in Scriptures but eternal life comes from Christ not Scriptures.
     
  4. Jodi

    Jodi Member

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    Hi Dave,

    Luke 23:41-43
    41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.
    42 And he said unto Jesus, "Lord, remember me when Thou comest into Thy kingdom."
    43 And Jesus said unto him, "Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with Me in paradise."

    Scripture is clear that our hope is in the return of Christ, the dead in Christ rise and then those alive join them in the air to MEET the lord and will be then forever with the Lord. Scripture is clear in 1 Corinthians 15, you sleep the sleep of death and those that are his awake at his second coming. Paul makes it clear those in Christ are perfected, receive their reward together. Acts tells you that David IS still dead in his grave.

    How was Jesus in paradise on that day when he died, he hadn't risen from being dead yet.

    There was NO punctuation in the original text, and the word of God does not create contradictions.

    "And he said to him, Truly I say to you today, you will be with me in Paradise."

    Rev 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God...10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

    James 1:12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.

    Daniel 12:2 And
    many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

    John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and
    I will raise him up at the last day.

    John 11:23 Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again. 24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day. 25 Jesus said unto her,I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: 26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

    Though he were dead, yet shall he live and when he shall live in the resurrection he is made incorruptible, and thus he shall never die, he has been given eternal life.

    1 Corinthians 15: 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man/HUMAN in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming... 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

    Dave, people are asleep in the DUST you are told, they are DEAD you are told, and those that are in Christ awake/rise from the DUST together on the last day at the last trump. There was no man who went to paradise on the day Jesus died. On the day Jesus died he made a promise to the man being crucified with him that he would enter in paradise.

    40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation? 41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss. 42 And he said unto Jesus,
    Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. 43 And Jesus said unto him,Verily I say unto thee To day, shalt thou be with me in paradise.

    Acts 15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they. 12 Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul, declaring what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles by them. 13 And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me: 14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name. And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written, 16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up: 17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things. 18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.

    Amos 9:11 In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old: 12 That they may possess the remnant of Edom, and of all the heathen, which are called by my name, saith the LORD that doeth this. 13 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that the plowman shall overtake the reaper, and the treader of grapes him that soweth seed; and the mountains shall drop sweet wine, and all the hills shall melt. 14 And I will bring again the captivity of my people of Israel, and they shall build the waste cities, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and drink the wine thereof; they shall also make gardens, and eat the fruit of them. 15 And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, saith the LORD thy God.

    Isaiah 16:5 And in mercy shall the throne be established: and he shall sit upon it in truth in the tabernacle of David, judging, and seeking judgment, and hasting righteousness.

    Acts 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;

    Dave, God declared the END from the beginning. God's will from the beginning was to perfect man, make man into His own image, to have humans follow His ways and dwell on earth in righteousness, in joy, love and peace for all eternity.
     
  5. Ezra

    Ezra Well-Known Member

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    the scriptures directs us to wards Christ btw thye are not my ideas but scripture
    hope that helps you.i will glady be a evangelical than a programed saint :eek:
     
  6. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member

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    Once again, all I've got to do is quote Jesus...

    Matt 10:28
    28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear Him Which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

    KJV

    That "soul" there is about our 'self', our 'person'. It is not about some animation principle like what plants and animals have. Per Eccl.12:5-7, there is a "silver cord" that attaches our spirit to our flesh body. When our flesh body dies it goes back to the earth where it came from, and that is what goes into a literal grave in the ground. The soul is attached to our spirit, and both go back to God at flesh death.

    2 Cor 5:1-8
    5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
    2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
    3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
    4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.
    5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.
    6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
    7(For we walk by faith, not by sight:)
    8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
    KJV


    If our flesh body were dissolved, then we already, right now, have another building of God, not made with hands, i.e., not made of flesh. That other body is the spiritual body. That is what Solomon was talking about with "spirit" that goes back to God at flesh death, simply because it is 'of'... that other dimension of existence where God lives, the heavenly. This is why Apostle Paul said in 1 Cor.15:50 that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, neither does corruption inherit incorruption. It's because the resurrection is not one of the flesh. Our soul is connected with our spirit, they cannot be separated. But our spirit with soul can... be separated from our flesh.
     
  7. Bible_Gazer

    Bible_Gazer Active Member

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    Agree with this, except about the Solomon part view you have.
    The OT saints went into the mind of God waiting for a resurrection.
    Malachi 3:16
    16 Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name.
    Hebrews 11 says they all died, coming short of the promise.
    Ezekiel 18:4 soul that sinneth it shall die. = They all sinned under the OT. Eternal life was not given yet.
    Matthew 27 shows that some who died got a resurrection.
    Malachi 3:17
    17 And they shall be mine, saith the LORD of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him.

    But do agree with the soul and spirit being one. Good script Matt. 10:28
     
  8. Jodi

    Jodi Member

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    Hi Dave,

    You are ignoring all the scriptures I gave you that directly show you are false. Why don't you discuss those? Once you read and believe them it makes your understanding of the other passages wrong, unless you want to say scripture is full of contradictions?

    You aren't even acknowledging how the word soul is used and thus it's definition. Your idea/definition of soul is equal to that of Plato, not scripture.

    In that same chapter of Matthew Jesus tells you the definition of soul, it is your LIFE and it is something he says that you LOSE, but that it can be found again, it's not immortal. Jesus goes onto talk about receiving a reward, which is the resurrection unto eternal LIFE/LIVING SOUL AGAIN.

    Part 1:
    I was waiting for you to bring forth 2 Corinthians 5, as I am fully aware how it is used by those of a mind to Plato philosophy. You want to ignore the below scriptures and then make Paul out to be a liar?

    Coll 1:5 For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;

    2 Thess 1:5 Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer: 6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you; 7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

    1 Thess 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

    1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. 6 Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations: 7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

    Jesus preached about the resurrection, not about so called immortal souls.

    John 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

     
  9. Jodi

    Jodi Member

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    Hi Dave,

    Part 2:

    The GOSPEL being preached the hope being taught was unto the resurrection of the DEAD, not the glory of your body dying and having a so called immortal soul going to heaven.

    Acts 4:2 Being grieved that they taught the people, and preached through Jesus the resurrection from the DEAD.


    Acts 23:6 But when Paul perceived that the one part were Sadducees, and the other Pharisees, he cried out in the council, Men and brethren, I am a Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee: of the hope and resurrection of the DEAD I am called in question.

    Acts 24:15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the DEAD, both of the just and unjust.

    Romans 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

    DAVE READ,


    1 Corinthians 15:14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain. 15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not. 16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: 17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. 18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished. 19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable. 20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the DEAD. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be MADE ALIVE. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

    1 Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

    We are not immortal, we DIE and those in Christ at the last trump are RAISED from the DEAD and where once we were mortal now we are immortal, DEATH is swallowed up in victory.
     
  10. Jodi

    Jodi Member

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    Hi Dave,

    Part 3:

    Apply what Paul said in 1 Corinthians 15 to 2 Corinthians 5, Paul doesn't contradict himself.

    2 Corinthians 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven: 3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked. 4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

    Paul is talking about the last day, where the dead are RAISED and BECOME immortal. Nothing about being an immortal soul and coming down from heaven.

    5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit. 6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: 7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:) 8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. 9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

    What does Paul teach that gives us clear understanding to his words above?

    Romans 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. 19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. 20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. 22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

    Romans 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. 12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. 13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

    If you are at home in your body, the lust of the flesh you will do and you are not present with the Lord, but if Christ be in you the body is dead and thus you are at home with the Lord.

    Paul says "22
    For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. Oh wretched man that I am, who shall deliver me from this body of this death". He likewise says "if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live."

    Paul says, "
    For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad."

    The message of Paul is NOT that we have hope knowing we have a so called immortal soul that goes to be with the lord when our body dies. Many, many scriptures tell you what are hope is for, Jesus spoke of it himself many times, our hope is in the resurrection from the dead.

    The message of Paul IS that no man in a mortal body who has received the "earnest" of the Spirit can be perfect/without sin, we are to desire a body where the fear of death no longer has dominion over us keeping us in captivity, where we no longer serve the law of sin. If Christ be in us having the "earnest" of the Spirit we thus delight in the law with our minds while we MORTIFY the deeds of our body, living in hope for the promised resurrection from the dead where the mortal body is clothed with an immortal body and we are set free. We are raised and given an immortal body, no longer having just the earnest of the Spirit, but made perfect being filled with the Spirit, God ALL IN.

     
  11. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member

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    And the link between Isaiah 42:7 and 1 Peter 3:18-20, and 1 Peter 4:5-6?
     
  12. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member

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    Who said anything about coming down from Heaven? God created our soul and spirit together, and put it into a flesh body. We are not flesh only, which is what you keep trying to say. Don't you realize that if you don't have an individual spirit inside your flesh today already, that you could never be "born again" of The Spirit like Jesus said? Also, how would your 'born again' spirit inside your flesh ever receive Christ's salvation if it simply perished with the material matter of your flesh which goes back to the earthly elements? God is not going to give you a new flesh body and re-create your spirit and soul anew. For then you would have to be given The Gospel again and asked to believe all over again! You're just not thinking.
     
  13. Jodi

    Jodi Member

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    Hi Davy,

    Thanks for your reply.

    Can you define both the soul and the spirit you say that God created together?

    What I know from scripture is that man became a living soul/nephesh and other living animals are also called nephesh.

    Nephesh is translated - soul 475, life 117, person 29, mind 15, heart 15, creature 9, body 8, himself 8, yourselves 6

    My understanding is that we each do have our own spirit/mind. Your life/soul/nephesh and how it is that you live it is dependent upon your spirit/mind. If I say my life is joyful, that is because my spirit/mind is joyful. If I say my soul is joyful, that is because my spirit/mind is joyful. If I say my life is full of hate, that is because my spirit/mind is full of hate. If I say my soul is full of hate, that is because my spirit/mind is full of hate.

    I'll just leave it at that for now. I am looking forward to hearing your answer.
     
  14. historyb

    historyb Well-Known Member

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    Yet you don't follow Scripture at all, you follow yourself and blame Scripture. I would much rather be a Liturgical Christian that follows the Ancient Church and Early Church Fathers than be a nut that follows themselves and acts like they are following Christ when they are doing no such thing like evangelicals.
     
  15. Jodi

    Jodi Member

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    The "early church fathers" were pagan converts who used pagan concepts to understand scripture.
     
  16. Mike Waters

    Mike Waters Well-Known Member

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    But, denominationally, what might you have been if you had not been in the geographical and parental position in which you became a Charismatic Episcopalian Member?
     
  17. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member

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    I think I already gave you enough Scripture proof, but here's more...

    Acts 2:27
    27 Because Thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt Thou suffer Thine Holy One to see corruption.
    KJV

    1 Kings 17:21
    21 And he stretched himself upon the child three times, and cried unto the LORD, and said, 'O LORD my God, I pray thee, let this child's soul come into him again.'
    KJV

    2 Cor 5:1-4
    5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
    2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
    3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
    4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.
    KJV

    Rev 6:9-11
    9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
    10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
    11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
    KJV

    You cannot only dwell on the ways the word 'soul' is used in God's Word, because it is also used to point to the 'person', or individual. It is the seat of our emotions, our person. And that is retained even after death of our flesh body. Jesus showed this in Luke 16 with the story of Lazarus and the rich man. And He was emphatic about it in the Matthew 10:28 and Luke 12:4-5 examples.

     
  18. Ezra

    Ezra Well-Known Member

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    would care to show where i have done this?
     
  19. historyb

    historyb Well-Known Member

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    Catholic or Orthodox.
     
  20. historyb

    historyb Well-Known Member

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    You were pagan at one time too, should we discount you?
     
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