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Regarding the Written Word

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by seekandfind, Jun 29, 2012.

  1. seekandfind

    seekandfind New Member

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    A few years ago I was invited to visit a church near the town where I lived at that time.

    I asked the person who invited me if the church had a website where I could read about the denomination and perhaps listen to a few sermons. They did have a website and I spent a few hours there listening to a few recordings.

    The sermons were very convincing but didn’t settle well with me. I actually came away from listening feeling a bit confused. The minister was preaching about how the bible was not needed. He went so far as to say that a person should toss their “bible into a garbage bin." He said that Christians have made the bible an idol rather than worshiping the creator Himself.

    I had never heard such a teaching, and I began to pray and ask The Lord if there was any truth to what was being taught. I most definitely didn’t want to be a “idolater,” and I asked the Lord if that was what I had been doing.

    I prayed concerning these things, and I picked up my bible and began to read Luke Ch. 4, Where Jesus was being tempted in the wilderness.

    I knew immediately that this was HIS answer to my prayer.

    Three times in Luke 4, Jesus answered with, “It is written.” The very first response was, “Man shall not live on bread alone but on every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.”

    We all go through trials and testing and I believe that we also should be able to answer in the same way with, “It is written.”

    Since then each time I read through the bible I make note of every single passage that I find regarding studying the word, the written word and instruction from God (throughout scripture,) to write the word.

    I’m absolutely amazed at how much the bible explains itself on how and why it was written!

    I’d like to share some of those scriptures and passages, we all should be equipped and have an answer to any false teaching.


    The first set of scriptures go into the instruction from God to “write it in a book.”


    Isaiah 30:8 Now go, write it before them in a table, and note it in a book, that it may be for the time to come for ever and ever:

    Jeremiah 30:2 Thus speaketh the LORD God of Israel, saying, Write thee all the words that I have spoken unto thee in a book.

    Jeremiah 36:2 Take thee a roll of a book, and write therein all the words that I have spoken unto thee against Israel, and against Judah, and against all the nations, from the day I spake unto thee, from the days of Josiah, even unto this day.

    Revelation 1:11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

    God breathed and God inspired:

    2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
    2 Timothy 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.


    Psalms 45:1 My heart is inditing a good matter: I speak of the things which I have made touching the king: my tongue is the pen of a ready writer.

    Written by the finger of God:

    Exodus 31:18 And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.

    Things written about what is written.

    Psalms 40:6 Sacrifice and offering thou didst not desire; mine ears hast thou opened: burnt offering and sin offering hast thou not required.
    Psalms 40:7 Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me,

    Psalms 102:18 This shall be written for the generation to come: and the people which shall be created shall praise the LORD.

    Proverbs 22:20 Have not I written to thee excellent things in counsels and knowledge,
    Proverbs 22:21 That I might make thee know the certainty of the words of truth; that thou mightest answer the words of truth to them that send unto thee?

    Mark 9:12 And he answered and told them, Elias verily cometh first, and restoreth all things; and how it is written of the Son of man, that he must suffer many things, and be set at nought.
    Mark 9:13 But I say unto you, That Elias is indeed come, and they have done unto him whatsoever they listed, as it is written of him.

    Mark 11:17 And he taught, saying unto them, Is it not written, My house shall be called of all nations the house of prayer? but ye have made it a den of thieves.

    Luke 4:4 And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.

    John 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

    Romans 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

    Romans 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

    Romans 14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

    1 Corinthians 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

    1 Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.

    Romans 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

    2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.


    I've actually spoken with more than a few people who have turned away from studying the word of God because of similar false teaching that go against our written instruction. In doing so a person is leaning on his or her own understanding rather than trusting in God.

    Psalms 12:6 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
    Psalms 12:7 Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.


    There are many,many more scriptures that are written that go into this subject. Feel free to share..
     
  2. mjrhealth

    mjrhealth Well-Known Member

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    Actually you will find that he is quiet correct in that many have made the bible into an idol. Jesus gave us the Holy Spirit to lead us into the truth, in fact we have Jesus with us now to teach us, the problem s very few christians will put the bible down and look up to see there saviour, or bother to spend time with Him asking Him what He thinks of it all. The bible may make a good reference but it does not replace Jesus or the Holy Spirit, whom you have but one must listen if one desires to hear.

    In All His Love
     
  3. veteran

    veteran New Member

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    You keep to that. God's Word is His Personal Letter written to us. We are His Family. So how should we treat a Personal Letter written us? All things are, and will be, measured by God's Holy Writ.

    Seeking to have our emotions tickled, putting down His Word to instead seek and trust in miracles and signs outside God's Word is not His Way. There's familiar spirits aplenty out there just itching to fool a believer that doesn't care to stay in God's Holy Writ.
     
  4. seekandfind

    seekandfind New Member

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    Thank you for your response veteran, and I completely agree. I'll never put down the written instruction that HE has given us because I know that HE teaches us through it.

    You know, there are examples in the scriptures about how Jesus teaches us through HIS written word.

    After Jesus arose from the dead, there were two disciples walking along the road to Emmaus. Jesus came to them and walked with them but they didn't recognize HIM.

    He discussed scriptures with them regarding Himself, and when they came to the city where they were going, they asked Him to go into the city and abide with them.

    He goes with them and eats with them, after HE breaks bread and blesses it and give it to them their eyes were opened and they knew who HE was.

    Luke 24:31 And their eyes were opened, and they knew him; and he vanished out of their sight.
    Luke 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

    There's a pattern there, they walked with Him, they listened to Him as he discussed the scriptures regarding Himself, they asked Him to abide with them, and He communed with them and then they knew who He was.

    The same chapter gives another example as well.

    Those two disciples went back to Jerusalem and they tell the others about seeing Jesus ("The Lord has risen indeed,") and while they were speaking Jesus appears to the other disciples.

    Luke 24:35 And they told what things were done in the way, and how he was known of them in breaking of bread.

    John 6 also goes into this. (The bread of life, manna from heaven.)

    Jesus talks with them and comforts them and explains to them the things that happened to Him.

    Luke 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

    Luke 24:45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

    Yes, I agree the scriptures studied with Jesus are needed and necessary and key.

    Jesus told us how to study as well, "seek, knock, ask, and come as little children."

    Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

    When we study, even our thoughts and the intents of our hearts are discerned.

    Glory to God for He has done great things.

    MJRhealth,

    Thank you for your response,

    You know, there's actually not one example in the scriptures of anyone studying too much or making the written word Idolatry.
    In fact the bible gives many examples of the scriptures being neglected. You can look at the different times that the nation of Israel fell into apostasy because of it. When the scriptures were brought back in and applied, only then was there peace.

    Paul spoke of the Berean's how they studied out every matter to see if it was so. And He told Timothy, to study to show himself approved a workman who shall not be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

    There's also an example in 1 Kings 13, where God sent a man into a city to prophecy. He tells the man to go in one way and to go out another way and not to eat any bread there or drink any water while he is there. The man goes and does as God told him to do and as he is leaving another way, another prophet comes to him and says that an angel of the Lord told him to tell that man to come to his home and eat bread and drink water. The man goes with him and eats and drinks, and because he listened to man above God the man ends up dying.

    I'll listen to God any day above opinions.
     
  5. mjrhealth

    mjrhealth Well-Known Member

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    If you had Jesus sitting with you in your room, and you had a bible with you, what would you do ?? Put down the bible and talk to Jesus or would you ignore Him and read the bible, because the second response is where most christians are at, When you come to Christ you receive the Holy Spirit, He becomes your teacher Jesus is with you, always ready to lend an ear, to answer questions.

    " my sheep hear my voice".

    But He is ignored, the bible takes preference over the Holy Spirit and Him, men striving to full their heads with knowledge of Him but never coming to know Him. But of course if you dont have Jesus or the Holy Spirit you can ignore my rant.

    In All His Love
     
  6. seekandfind

    seekandfind New Member

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    I love the qualification at the end of your message...too funny.

    I'm glad that my relationship and walk with God through Christ is between He and I.

    If you read through my message and responses on this string you'd know that opinions of men mean nothing unless it lines up with HIS written word.

    That is another reason why we need the written word prayerfully studied. There are all kinds of deceptive teachings in this world, even among many who claim to be Christians. There are also MANY warnings in the scriptures regarding this.

    Read through this message string again, address it with the scriptures and then we can talk.

    Psalms 119:105 Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
     
  7. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    There is a present idolatry of Jesus and the bible...we call this churchianity. This is not to be confused with true Christianity...which is in the power of the Spirit. This is the testimony of the bible.
     
  8. seekandfind

    seekandfind New Member

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    Absolutely Episkopos,

    We wouldn't even know that without the scriptures. There's a reason why it was written.

    1 Corinthians:
    9Nor should we put Christ to the test, as some of them did and then died from snakebites. 10And don’t grumble as some of them did, and then were destroyed by the angel of death. 11These things happened to them as examples for us. They were written down to warn us who live at the end of the age.
    12If you think you are standing strong, be careful not to fall. 13The temptations in your life are no different from what others experience. And God is faithful.

    In Mark Ch. 7 Jesus told the Pharisees that by teaching the commandments of men they make the
    word of God to none effect.

    They were changing even what was written to fit their own understanding.

    Jesus also said that if the blind be followers of the blind they will both fall into a ditch.

    And He gave this instruction: "If you continue in My word, you are My disciples indeed and you shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free."

    The difference between the multitudes and the disciples is that the multitudes would go their way after hearing JESUS minister, the disciples would always go to Jesus and ask HIM "what does this mean?" (Seek, knock and ask.)

    Strong's concordance defines manna in the Hebrew as this:

    4478 man mawn from 4100; literally, a whatness (so to speak), i.e. manna (so called from the question about it):--manna.

    "What is this, what does it mean?"

    The Greek defines it as this:
    3131. manna man'-nah of Hebrew origin (4478); manna (i.e. man), an edible gum:--manna.

    John 6:48 I am that bread of life.

    Psalms 34:8 O taste and see that the LORD is good: blessed is the man that trusteth in him.
     
  9. neophyte

    neophyte Member

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    For example, Jesus’ commandment to the Apostles at the end of Matthew’s Gospel logically assumes the necessity of Sacred Tradition:

    Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey all that I have commanded you. And remember, I am with you always, to the end of the age. (Matt. 28:19-20)
    Jesus didn’t tell the apostles to write down everything he had taught them. He simply commanded them to teach it. Much of this teaching later made its way into Sacred Scripture, but every bit of it was and still is considered Sacred Tradition.

    Also this explanation from The Catechim of the Catholic Church
    explains,

    The Tradition here in question comes from the apostles and hands on what they received from Jesus’ teaching and example and what they learned from the Holy Spirit. The first generation of Christians did not yet have a written New Testament, and the New Testament itself demonstrates the process of living Tradition. (CCC 83)​
     
  10. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    The Tradition is to follow the Spirit and submit our ways to God to be led by Him.
     
  11. mjrhealth

    mjrhealth Well-Known Member

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    Calling something sacred, or holy does not make it so that is totally mans flesh. As for tradition,

    Mar_7:8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
    Mar_7:9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
    Mar_7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

    Col_2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

    2Th_3:6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.

    1Pe_1:18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

    I am redeemed through Christ Jesus not the bible, Jesus is the word, the truth is In Him. We have the Holy Spirit, to teach us and lead us into all the truth and show us things to come. it is man who limits God to the bible. God is quiet able to save a man who has never read it or gone to church just as easily as he can hang another star in the heavens. God is God or He is not. My God does not live in a box that is limited by my imagination, He is free to do as He pleases.

    In All His Love
     
  12. neophyte

    neophyte Member

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    Learning through Oral Apostolic Tradition
    Matt. 15:3 - Jesus condemns human traditions that void God's word. Some Protestants use this verse to condemn all tradition. But this verse has nothing to do with the tradition we must obey that was handed down to us from the apostles. (Here, the Pharisees, in their human tradition, gave goods to the temple to avoid taking care of their parents, and this voids God's law of honoring one's father and mother.)
    Mark 7:9 - this is the same as Matt. 15:3 - there is a distinction between human tradition (that we should reject) and apostolic tradition (that we must accept).
    Gal. 1:14; Col. 2:22 – Paul also writes about “the traditions of my fathers” and “human precepts and doctrines” which regarded the laws of Judaism. These traditions are no longer necessary.
    Acts 2:42 - the members obeyed apostolic tradition (doctrine, prayers, and the breaking of bread). Their obedience was not to the Scriptures alone. Tradition (in Greek, "paradosis") means "to hand on" teaching.
    Acts 20:7 - this verse gives us a glimpse of Christian worship on Sunday, but changing the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday is understood primarily from oral apostolic tradition.
    John 17:20 - Jesus prays for all who believe in Him through the oral word of the apostles. Jesus protects oral apostolic teaching.
    1 Cor. 11:2 - Paul commends the faithful for maintaining the apostolic tradition that they have received. The oral word is preserved and protected by the Spirit.
    Eph. 4:20 – Paul refers the Ephesians to the oral tradition they previously received when he writes, “You did not so learn Christ!”
    Phil. 4:9 - Paul says that what you have learned and received and heard and seen in me, do. This refers to learning from his preaching and example, which is apostolic tradition.
    Col. 1:5-6 – of this you have heard before in the word of the truth, the gospel, which has come to you. This delivery of the faith refers to the oral tradition the Colossians had previously received from the ordained leaders of the Church. This oral tradition is called the gospel of truth.
    1 Thess.1:5 – our gospel came to you not only in word, but in the power of the Holy Spirit. Paul is referring to the oral tradition which the Thessalonians had previously received. There is never any instruction to abandon these previous teachings; to the contrary, they are to be followed as the word of God.
    1 Thess. 4:2 – Paul again refers the Thessalonians to the instructions they already had received, which is the oral apostolic tradition.
    2 Thess. 2:5 – Paul yet again refers the Thessalonians to the previous teachings they received from Paul when he taught them orally. These oral teachings are no less significant than the written teachings.
    2 Thess. 2:15 - Paul clearly commands us in this verse to obey oral apostolic tradition. He says stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught, either by word of mouth or letter. This verse proves that for apostolic authority, oral and written communications are on par with each other. Protestants must find a verse that voids this commandment to obey oral tradition elsewhere in the Bible, or they are not abiding by the teachings of Scripture.
    2 Thess. 2:15 - in fact, it was this apostolic tradition that allowed the Church to select the Bible canon (apostolicity was determined from tradition). Since all the apostles were deceased at the time the canon was decided, the Church had to rely on the apostolic tradition of their successors. Hence, the Bible is an apostolic tradition of the Catholic Church. This also proves that oral tradition did not cease with the death of the last apostle. Other examples of apostolic tradition include the teachings on the Blessed Trinity, the hypostatic union (Jesus had a divine and human nature in one person), the filioque (that the Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son), the assumption of Mary, and knowing that the Gospel of Matthew was written by Matthew.
    2 Thess. 3:6 - Paul again commands the faithful to live in accord with the tradition that they received from the apostles.
    2 Thess. 3:7 - Paul tells them they already know how to imitate the elders. He is referring them to the tradition they have learned by his oral preaching and example.
    1 Tim. 6:20 - guard what has been "entrusted" to you. The word "entrusted" is "paratheke" which means a "deposit." Oral tradition is part of what the Church has always called the Deposit of Faith.
    2 Tim. 2:2 - Paul says what you have heard from me entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also. This is "tradition," or the handing on of apostolic teaching.
    2 Tim. 3:14 - continue in what you have learned and believed knowing from whom you learned it (by oral tradition).
    1 John 2:7 – John refers to the oral word his disciples have heard which is the old commandment that we love one another.
    From Catholic apologist John Salza
     
  13. Foreigner

    Foreigner New Member

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    -- Exactly. And it isn't a one-time read and then you are done.
    It is the inspired Word of God, that continues to give and give to all that seek Him through it.
    Christians should not just read but STUDY God's word, and most do - in conjuction with heartfelt prayer and worship and the seeking of God in their quiet time.

    Those that imply that the majority of Christians just read the Word and never actually speak with God have nothing whatsoever to support that opinion.



    -- "Very few Christians?" And just how big a cross-section of Christians did you sample to come up with THAT little definitive gem?


    -- If an actual physical incarnation of Jesus sat down with us and spoke to us like God spoke with Moses face to face, you would be on to something.
    But since that isn't how things normally occur.....

    Jesus lives inside of us in the form of the Holy Spirit. He is with us all the time. But since His instruction isn't normally audible, and for many it can take years to discern the "small still voice," the Word helps the Holy Spirit speak with us.

    Even after your relationship with the Holy Spirit is in tune to the point you know that you know that you know what He says, He STILL uses the Word in communicating with us.

    You seem to miss the simple immutable fact that the Holy Spirit OFTEN uses the Bible to communicate with us.
    To direct us.
    To encourage us.
    To give us revelation.
    To motivate and inspire us.
    To console us.
    To confirm for us that it is actually HIM we are hearing from.

    More than once I have sought guidance from the Holy Spirit only to have Him bring to mind a scriptures that I have not thought of for months or even years that gives me direction or confirmation.

    God expects you to spend time in His Word. He gave it to us FOR ongoing instruction and communication with us.

    What we read (or study) in the Bible stays with us and that is one of the things the Holy Spirit uses to communicate with us, or guide us when we are witnessing to others.
     
  14. mjrhealth

    mjrhealth Well-Known Member

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    Seeing Jesus,

    Joh 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

    G1718
    ἐμφανίζω
    emphanizō
    Thayer Definition:
    1) to manifest, exhibit to view
    2) to show one’s self, come to view, appear, be manifest
    3) to indicate, disclose, declare, make known

    As for the Holy Spirit,

    Joh_16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

    How can the Holy Spirit teach you things to come if it is all already written.

    Joh_16:12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
    Joh_21:25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.

    So our God who created the heavens and the earth, mankind and all the animals, the sea, the sky and the trees and flowers, is not able to show Himself to man, because man says so, that is unbelief.

    In All His Love
     
  15. seekandfind

    seekandfind New Member

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    Mjrhealth,

    Paul wrote about how a babe in Christ goes from the milk of the word to the meat of the word. We grow as we continue in the word. As in the example from John 16, Jesus told the disciples that HE had much to tell them but they could not yet bear it. As we continue in the word and grow and press on, HE gives us what we are able to bear when we are ready to receive it. He knows our hearts even better than we do, and He knows exactly what we can bear.

    To tell a new believer that they don't need the written word leaves them open to all kinds of deceptive teachings. Such as the false teaching that studying the bible is a form of idolatry. Can anyone say Jim Jones?

    People rejected HIS instruction even in the Old Testament, here's one example from Psalms (There are more examples):

    Psalms 50:16 But unto the wicked God saith, What hast thou to do to declare my statutes, or that thou shouldest take my covenant in thy mouth?
    Psalms 50:17 Seeing thou hatest instruction, and casteth my words behind thee.


    But Jesus said this:

    John 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

    When God speaks, what HE says stands! God used Moses to speak His words to Pharaoh and every word that was spoken to Pharaoh happened. As in the examples in the original message God told men to write the things that HE spoke. I assure you that anything that God told man to speak, to write or to do, those things are done in HIS power, and they stand.
    And everything that is written, has happened, is happening and will happen.

    John 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

    The words that HE spoke are written.
     
  16. mjrhealth

    mjrhealth Well-Known Member

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    Again one limits God, as if God would find it impossible to change one in an instant. Its the " words that I speak, they are Spirit and they are Life". Did you think that Jesus did all He did ,just so we could read a book, He did it all so we could have all here on earth but its because men love following men, love trying to figure it all out for themselves and leave God in a box, and that is why so few christians Grow. We have Christ now, we have the Holy Spirit now, we can have heaven on earth now, if only we would but ask,

    "will i find faith on earth when I return",

    We have being deceived by the enemy and the doctrines and religion of men for so long, we do not know what is truth and what is lie, yet we will not turn to Christ and listen to Him.
    " My sheep hear my voice and i know them and they know Me',

    Knowing about Christ is not the same as knowing Christ, one comes from reading the bible one comes from spending time at His feet, but if you have already determined that God is all in the bible, than you have all you need to know and He has nothing to teach yo, your glass is already full to overflowing with the knowledge of, but wouldnt you rather know Him.

    In all His Love
     
  17. IanLC

    IanLC Active Member Encounter Team

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    Jesus gave us two great gifts his word and His Spirit, both are to be utilized for an effective Christian life. You can not have the word and not have the Holy Ghost or vice versa. We need both, The letter alone kills because it is holy and pure and can not dwell in unrighteousness but The Holy Spirit gives life to the word and produces the light and life of the word of Jesus in us. That is why Jesus said they at worship God must worship Him in the Spirit and the Truth. For the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Truth. and the word and the Spirit was their in the beginning and are revealed in Jesus!
     
  18. neophyte

    neophyte Member

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    [quote name='UHCAIan' timestamp='1341153126' post='155197']
    Jesus gave us two great gifts his word and His Spirit, both are to be utilized for an effective Christian life. You can not have the word and not have the Holy Ghost or vice versa. We need both, The letter alone kills because it is holy and pure and can not dwell in unrighteousness but The Holy Spirit gives life to the word and produces the light and life of the word of Jesus in us. That is why Jesus said they at worship God must worship Him in the Spirit and the Truth. For the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Truth. and the word and the Spirit was their in the beginning and are revealed in Jesus!
    [/quote]

    The Holy Spirit is the Truth and Jesus is also the Truth and Jesus only ever spoke to His Apostles about the Truth they received from Him as proven by [ Luke 10: 16 ] The Words of Jesus are as much God-breathed as is the Word.
    The Holy Bible tells that all Truth is found in Christ's Church [ 1Tim. 3:15 ] and all Authority from Jesus was given to His Apostolic Church [ Matt. 16:18 - 19, 18:18, John 20: 23 ] His Church is built on His Apostles [ 1Cor. 3:10; Eph. 2:20; Rev. 21:14 ] the unbroken succession [ Acts 1: 15-26, 2 Tim. 2:2; Titus 1:5 ] Christ protects His Church [ Apostolic/Catholic [ Matt. 16:18; 20:20 ] Now care to show me from the Holy Bible where Jesus gave His Authority to any man or woman to form any future churches different than His [' Apostolic' as in [ Eph.2:19 ] Church described from the above Bible verses ?
     
  19. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    Amen!! The word is the map and the Spirit is the compass. Unless we have both we get seriously lost.
     
  20. seekandfind

    seekandfind New Member

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    Amen!

    2 Corinthians 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
    2 Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

    Proverbs 1:2 To know wisdom and instruction; to perceive the words of understanding;
    Proverbs 1:3 To receive the instruction of wisdom, justice, and judgment, and equity;
    Proverbs 1:4 To give subtilty to the simple, to the young man knowledge and discretion.
    Proverbs 1:5 A wise man will hear, and will increase learning; and a man of understanding shall attain unto wise counsels:
    Proverbs 1:6 To understand a proverb, and the interpretation; the words of the wise, and their dark sayings.
     
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