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Featured "Religion! Who needs it?" or "Religious Tyranny:"

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by H. Richard, Apr 3, 2017.

  1. H. Richard

    H. Richard Well-Known Member

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    If you can see it, all the persecutions of true Christians has come from the religious. In this writing I am going to point out what I see in religions.

    James 1:27 (NKJ)
    27 Pure and undefiled religion before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their trouble, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world.

    The above verse tells us what true religion is. But religions as we know them today do not fit into the above definition. It would seem that looking after the orphans and widows in their trouble is an after thought of most religions. Nor is there anyone that can keep him/her self unspotted from the world.

    Even in the days of the Tower of Babble men made up religions based on their imaginations. Each religion had a leader who, with a supposed higher knowledge of God, lead the people. These leaders used this to control others.

    When Constantine, a man who knew many false gods of the world's religions, organized the Christian church into a physical Church, and a state sanctioned church, he set it up like all of the other religions of the times. He was influenced by the Pagan Roman religions as well as the Jewish religion.

    It was not long after Constantine made the Christian Religion a state religion that the leaders of the state sanctioned church went from being persecuted, by others, to persecuting all those that did not willingly believe, and submit, to the RCC doctrines.

    For well over a thousand years, the Roman Catholic Church hunted down all that disagreed with them, called them "heretics" and had them killed by the secular rulers. I believe that some of these "heretics" were children of God who believed in Jesus but refused the doctrines advocated by the RCC but I can‘t prove it.

    But the Roman Catholic Church was not alone. The protestant Churches that broke away persecuted those with other beliefs as well, and some also had people burned at the stake. Think about Calvin and his influence in the city of Geneva. His policy was not tolerant of the beliefs of others. Many people with different ideas, including Catholics, were put to death between 1542 and 1564. It is a fact that even on Christian forums there are those that are not tolerant of others that do not share their beliefs and if it were possible, they would have those that disagree with them burned at the stake.

    Think about it, all through history religions have caused wars, suffering, and slavery. Even today we have a religion that causes some to kill for it. It is also true that many, on forums, practice character assassination and harassment towards those who do not believe the same as they do. It is the different doctrines, rituals, ceremonies, and the ideas on living life, that men have in religion that separate men today. In every nation where religion has controlled, or controls, the secular government there has been oppression and murder in the name of religion. The framers of the USA Constitution took this into consideration when they separated, by law, religion from the secular government.

    It should be noticed that all persecution of the Children of God has come from the religious sector. It was the religious leaders (Pharisees) that persecuted Jesus. It was religious Jews that stoned Stephen to death (Acts 7) and tried to kill Paul (Acts 21).

    Today there are religious people trying to place people under religious governments. The problem is under whose interpretation of religion are we to live.

    Religion is what man does for the god they have created in their own mind. However, the gospel of Jesus Christ is not a religion. It is not about what man does for God but is about what God has done for man. It is God making a way for each, and everyone, of us to come back to Him and have a personal relationship with Him even though they are still sinful. God walked with man in the garden and wants to walk with man today. It is this relationship that God is interested in, not rituals and ceremonies that men do to look so religious.

    But most do not want a close, honest, personal, relationship with God in their hearts. They prefer to have a relationship with an impersonal religion. Why, because they do not have to be honest with it. They can hide their deeds and thoughts.

    John 3:19-20 (NKJ)
    19 "And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
    20 "For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.

    Jesus is the light and everyone that comes to Him in a personal relationship must expose his or her deeds and thoughts to Him. Anyone can participate in an organized religion. Organized religion cannot see into the heart.

    Even the Bible says that religion is not what we think it is:

    Col 2:20-23 (NKJ)
    20 Therefore, if you died with Christ from the basic principles of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to regulations--
    21 "Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle,"
    22 which all concern things which perish with the using-- according to the commandments and doctrines of men?
    23 These things indeed have an appearance of wisdom in self-imposed religion, false humility, and neglect of the body, but are of no value against the indulgence of the flesh.

    2 Cor 11:13-15 (NKJ)
    13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ.
    14 And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light.
    15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works. (NKJ)

    Satan's goal is not to have you involved in overt sin and iniquity. Satan's goal is to have you appear righteous on the outside but spiritually dead on the inside. He wants you to be religious, but lost, just as the scribes and Pharisees (Matt 23:25-28)

    Paul, a Jew among Jews, knowledgeable in the Jewish traditions and laws in religion, gave them all up and counted them as rubbish in order to gain Christ. He said nothing about religion because that is what he had given up.

    Phil 3:8 (NKJ)
    8 Yet indeed I also count all things loss for the excellence of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them as rubbish, that I may gain Christ

    Written in 1999 by H. Richard
     
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  2. mjrhealth

    mjrhealth Well-Known Member

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    Nice post, but you know it will fall on deaf ears, that bit about eyes to see ears to hear, and you left out tjis bit

    Gal 4:28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
    Gal 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

    God bless
     
  3. H. Richard

    H. Richard Well-Known Member

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    ***
    You are right. Mankind loves their religions.

    The reason why the religion will not respond is that they know every word of this O.P is correct and history proves it. So they just ignore it and go their way,

    Jesus was certainly right when He said that few will find the way. Most are too busy with their religious ideas.
     
  4. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    that may not be too fair. After all, you came from religion, yes? So you talk to people who are still in religion, where you once were, and you only get a snapshot of them in time, and when you are disagreed with you likely tend to think that you are rejected, when you actually plant a seed that will produce fruit in them, if they are really seeking.
     
  5. H. Richard

    H. Richard Well-Known Member

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    What makes you think I came from religion? I never believed that all the things the pastors were teaching were true unless I could back it up with scriptures. I have been a child of God since God made me one when I was about 9 years old. I use to listen to grace blended in with the law taught from the pulpit knowing very well that I was not under the law. I use to hear about all we must do to get God's blessings when according to God's word it was not about what I must do: it was all about what God has done for me and that God, the Father, wants mankind to glorify His Son. Religion glorifies those in it..

    Religion = what mankind does to please God

    truth = what God has done for mankind.

    Below is the truth.

    Isa 53:3-6
    3 He is despised and rejected by men, A Man of sorrows and acquainted with grief. And we hid, as it were, our faces from Him; He was despised, and we did not esteem Him.
    4 Surely He has borne our griefs And carried our sorrows; Yet we esteemed Him stricken, Smitten by God, and afflicted.
    5 But He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities; The chastisement for our peace was upon Him, And by His stripes we are healed.
    6 All we like sheep have gone astray; We have turned, every one, to his own way; And the Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of us all.
    NKJV

    1 Cor 15:3-4
    3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,
    4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures,
    NKJV

    Heb 1:3
    3 who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,
    NKJV

    1 John 4:10
    10 In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
    NKJV

    Rev 1:5-6
    5 and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler over the kings of the earth. To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood,
    6 and has made us kings and priests to His God and Father, to Him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.
    NKJV
     
  6. Heb 13:8

    Heb 13:8 Well-Known Member

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    God has us, from when we first believed all the way to rapture (harpazo).

    Eph 1:13-14 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

    John 10:28-29 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch (harpazó) them out of my hand. 29My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all ; no one can snatch (harpazó) them out of my Father’s hand.

    1 Thess 4:17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up (harpazo) together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

    Rev 12:5 She gave birth to a son, a male child, who "will rule all the nations with an iron scepter." And her child was snatched up (harpazó) to God and to his throne.

    - Heb 13:8
     
  7. mjrhealth

    mjrhealth Well-Known Member

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    Joh 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
    Joh 6:66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.
    Joh 6:67 Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?
    Joh 6:68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.
    Joh 6:69 And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.

    Those in Christ know whom there salvation lies, and its not religion.

    Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
     
  8. tabletalk

    tabletalk Well-Known Member

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    mjrhealth said: "Those in Christ know whom there salvation lies, and its not religion."

    What do you mean by contrasting "in Christ" with "religion"?
     
  9. mjrhealth

    mjrhealth Well-Known Member

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    Is that so hard to work out, when Jesus comes , where will you be found. In Him or In church????
     
  10. H. Richard

    H. Richard Well-Known Member

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    You won't find Christ in a religion. It was religion that had Jesus put to death and Stephen stoned to death yet the religious think religion will get then to heaven. Jesus had no love for the religious.

    Paul uses the two words "in Christ" to define the child of God who has been placed "in Christ" by the Holy Spirit. Only those that the Holy Spirit has put "in Christ" are children of God. Salvation is the work of God; not man.
     
  11. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    well, i agree with that myself, and your opinion of religion; but nonetheless we can witness many good hearted people that identify as religious, so as tempting as that is i think it can be easy to be drawn in to another way to judge people doing that, and essentially just making up some new laws that you feel the religious should be compelled to follow in order to be considered "accepted." We get a bit more spiritual insight, and are led to essentially start pulling tares among those groping, damaging wheat in the process imo. After all, are you not now religious about your new insight?

    So then finding Word caused me a new problem, that being that now i am tempted to construct a wall, a division, between me and someone who believes differently on the matter, and i am once again able to view them as "less than."

    It might be useful in this vein to see the Israelites as quite religious, yet God is with them, even through the Diasporas. The outcome of Esau, also, whom "God had hated," might be reflected on here; Jacob approaches Esau, with much consternation and worry, etc, sending gifts ahead of him via "servants," stressed about how he will be received, and even wondering if he will be killed, etc. Same story, imo. Esau turns out fine though, in a manner that we are not privvy to, and after "despising his birthright" and "losing his inheritance," what should have been a crippling blow.
     
  12. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    you are a rapturist mjr? hmm
     
  13. tabletalk

    tabletalk Well-Known Member

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    That is a choice you have simply made up. Do you think you are exhorting people, encouraging them to seek God and even live more Godly lives, by your questions? "In Him or in church?"
    Your question is saying to me: Tabletalk, if you go to a Christian church (and, Heaven forbid, even become a member) then you are not in Christ. Tabletalk, please re-evaluate your assurance of salvation, because you go to church and therefore are not "in Him".
     
  14. Heb 13:8

    Heb 13:8 Well-Known Member

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    religion - doing all the religious stuff like the pharisee did but never becoming born again John 3:3-7. is what mjr is saying.
     
  15. mjrhealth

    mjrhealth Well-Known Member

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    Dont be so foolish. We are here to serve God to do His will not to run away when trouble comes.

    Mat 3:7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

    Even the bible speaks of

    Luk 13:2 And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things?
    Luk 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
    Luk 13:4 Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem?
    Luk 13:5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

    christians love running away from trouble yet,'

    Luk 17:36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
    Luk 17:37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.

    Didnt say they where going anywhere,

    1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

    Now for some to reamion it must mean some are no longer here does it not.

    If im here than so be it, if Im not so be it, thats His choosing, He teh potter we teh clay, can theh clay tell teh potter what He must make of it??
     
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  16. mjrhealth

    mjrhealth Well-Known Member

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    So which "christian" church do you belong to

    SDA
    JW
    Greek Orthoodx,
    Russian Orthodox,
    Salvos
    Church of Jesus Christ of later day saints
    catholic
    protestant
    gazziliion vers od teh cc ccoc cclc and on and on

    If you belong to one, why dont you go teh the others??

    Because they all presume they are the one that is "Christs" church and they have teh answers, and they have teh right way and they have there own doctrines this bit.

    Mar_7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
    Col_2:22 Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men?

    and there is this

    1Co_6:16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.
    1Co_6:17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

    Under stand. What ever you join yourself to that is what you become, which is why an SDA sounds and teaches like an SDA, a protestant like a protestant, a catholic like a catholic, a Jew like a jew.

    What has Christ got to do with mens churches,? Jesus said He will build His church and calls all men to Himself, men build there churches and than demand that Jesus come do there bidding. God its sunday you must come now.? God is not mans puppet, yet we have made Him out to be just like that, to dance and sing and act at mens bidding. Its so sad how in such a short time man has undone all our Lords good work.
     
  17. Deborah_

    Deborah_ Active Member

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    I can ONLY belong to one church at a time, because I can only be in one place at a time. That involves making a choice between the churches available to me locally.
    It DOESN'T mean that I think all the others are wrong.
    The denominational label means very little to me (other than the catholic/protestant divide, or the cults). Apart from the cults (JWs, Mormons etc) none of them claim to be the only true church., and people move back and forth between denominations all the time.

    Christ is in His church - when we meet together (and that usually is on a Sunday morning, although also on other days of the week). Unfortunately large groups of people need organising, and so we end up with a framework. They need somewhere to meet, and so we end up with a building. But these things are secondary.
    All the churches that you now see originally started with Christ. Some of them have drifted away - but not all, by a long way.
     
  18. H. Richard

    H. Richard Well-Known Member

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    ***
    Christ is not in a church on this earth. According to scriptures He is in heaven sitting at the right hand of God the Father. The children of God are "in Christ" and therefore are sitting at the right hand of God the Father in Christ.

    John 14:19-21
    19 "A little while longer and the world will see Me no more, but you will see Me. Because I live, you will live also.
    20 At that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you.
    21 He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him."
    NKJV

    The religious will use this verse to place the children of God back under the law. But according to my Bible Jesus gave Paul a message of His grace that excluded the law. This is the commandment under grace, that we believe and trust in Jesus' work on the cross.

    John 17:20-23
    20 "I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word;
    21 that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me.
    22 And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one:
    23 I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.
    NKJV

    The real church is a spiritual one and can not be seen with fleshly eyes.


    Gal 3:2-3
    2 This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
    3 Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh?
    NKJV
     
  19. Deborah_

    Deborah_ Active Member

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    Oh yes He is!

    "For where two or three gather in My name, there I am with them." (Matthew 18:20)
     
  20. mjrhealth

    mjrhealth Well-Known Member

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    Funny story here.

    HAd a friend many years ago, We are sitting discussing teh things of God. Than she tells me she had some visions while im church. She says, I saw a set of stairs appear on te hside of teh building, than Jesus and a couple of angels appeared, and He walked down the stairs. When eh goto to teh bottom He turned around and walked out. Oh I said, than she says that was teh first one in the next one He never even came down the stairs He just turned around and walked out.

    Jesus will not be a part of mens religions.

    Mat 15:8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
    Mat 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

    It is great foolishness to assume that just because peopel call themselves christians , that they are. He warns us of teh weat and teh tares, look teh same but wont be seperated till He is ready. Can you tell the diff??
     
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