Remember the Sabbath Day to keep it holy

[gadar perets]

Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
But the seventh day is the Sabbath of YHWH thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
For in six days YHWH made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore YHWH blessed the Sabbath day, and hallowed it. Exodus 20:8-11
​

Are you among those who have forgotten the Sabbath day, who don't keep it holy and who have been losing out on the special blessing of rest for those who keep it?

I would like to help you understand the Sabbath commandment (the fourth of the Ten Commandments). Not that I know it all concerning the Sabbath, but I have learned much about it over my 32 years of keeping it. If you have any Scriptures that you believe abolish the Sabbath or change it to a different day (most commonly Sunday), feel free to post them here and we can hopefully discuss them in a mature way. One thing I would ask is that you don't throw multiple verses/passages at me. That accomplishes nothing. Post one or two verses or passages to discuss and then we can move on to the next one.

I have posted Exodus 20:8-11 to get us started. Does anyone here believe the blessing upon and holiness of the Sabbath have been removed by YHWH, Yeshua or any apostle? If so, please quote their words.

 

[Marymog]

Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
But the seventh day is the Sabbath of YHWH thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
For in six days YHWH made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore YHWH blessed the Sabbath day, and hallowed it. Exodus 20:8-11
​

Are you among those who have forgotten the Sabbath day, who don't keep it holy and who have been losing out on the special blessing of rest for those who keep it?

I would like to help you understand the Sabbath commandment (the fourth of the Ten Commandments). Not that I know it all concerning the Sabbath, but I have learned much about it over my 32 years of keeping it. If you have any Scriptures that you believe abolish the Sabbath or change it to a different day (most commonly Sunday), feel free to post them here and we can hopefully discuss them in a mature way. One thing I would ask is that you don't throw multiple verses/passages at me. That accomplishes nothing. Post one or two verses or passages to discuss and then we can move on to the next one.

I have posted Exodus 20:8-11 to get us started. Does anyone here believe the blessing upon and holiness of the Sabbath have been removed by YHWH, Yeshua or any apostle? If so, please quote their words.

Hi,

The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath. Therefore the Son of Man is also Lord of the Sabbath.

"On the first day of every week (Sunday), each of you is to put something aside and store it up, as he may prosper, so that contributions need not be made when I come."

The NT Christians met on the Lords day, the first day of the week (Sunday) in Acts 20.

Would you like historical evidence that NT Christians celebrated the Sabbath on Sunday which backs up what scripture says?

Or are you only interested in the historical record of methodical Sabbath Keeping by Christians who STOPPED worshipping on the first day of the week?

Mary

 

[bbyrd009]

"On the first day of every week (Sunday), each of you is to put something aside and store it up, as he may prosper, so that contributions need not be made when I come."

"on the first day of the new week, after Sabbath, do this work"

 

[gadar perets]

Hi,

The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath. Therefore the Son of Man is also Lord of the Sabbath.

Thanks for your reply Mary. It seems we agree that a Sabbath still exists for believers. It is hard to be "Lord of the Sabbath" if there is no Sabbath at all.

"On the first day of every week (Sunday), each of you is to put something aside and store it up, as he may prosper, so that contributions need not be made when I come."

Does this refer to collecting offerings during a Sunday service? No. If you check Acts 11:27-30 & Romans 15:25-28, you will see that there was a great famine that especially caused hardship for the brethren in Judea and Jerusalem. Paul requested offerings from the Galatian, Corinthian, Macedonian, and Achaian brethren. He told them to gather the goods (food, clothing, etc.) prior to his arrival. He did not want to have to wait for the offerings to be gathered when he came. He then took all the relief items to Jerusalem to disperse to the needy saints. There is nothing in these verses to indicate a typical Sunday collection. It was a one time special collection because of the famine. And it was done on Sunday because of the tremendous amount of work involved in loading all the goods, something they would never have done on Sabbath.

The NT Christians met on the Lords day, the first day of the week (Sunday) in Acts 20.

I assume you are referring to Acts 20:7. What does it mean to “break bread”? Does it mean to take “the Lord’s supper” on Sunday? According to Acts 2:42-46, “breaking bread” was done daily. It simply means to have a meal. In Acts 20:7, the disciples finished Sabbath services on Saturday. After the sun set ending Sabbath and beginning the first day of the week, they had a meal together followed by Paul’s preaching until midnight Sunday (our Saturday night). The disciples held this special gathering because their beloved Paul was to leave the next morning (vs. 7). In the morning, he had planned to walk approx. 10 miles to Assos. Notice he would not take this strenuous, tiring trip on Sabbath, but waited instead until Sunday, another work day.

Would you like historical evidence that NT Christians celebrated the Sabbath on Sunday which backs up what scripture says?

Or are you only interested in the historical record of methodical Sabbath Keeping by Christians who STOPPED worshipping on the first day of the week?

Mary

Actually, the NT writings are the only reliable historical records I am interested in. The corruption of the church came swiftly after Paul's departure as the mystery of iniquity, false teachers, false prophets and wolves in sheep's clothing spared not the flock (2 Thessalonians 2:7; 2 Peter 2:1; Matthew 7:15; 1 John 4:1; Acts 20:29).

 

[gadar perets]

"On the first day of every week (Sunday), each of you is to put something aside and store it up, as he may prosper, so that contributions need not be made when I come."

I just noticed you used a bogus translation. The word "every" is not in the Greek text. The correct translation is;

1 Corinthians 16:2 Upon the first of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.
​

As I wrote in my last post, this was a one time collection, not a weekly collection.

 

[Marymog]

Thanks for your reply Mary. It seems we agree that a Sabbath still exists for believers. It is hard to be "Lord of the Sabbath" if there is no Sabbath at all.


Does this refer to collecting offerings during a Sunday service? No. If you check Acts 11:27-30 & Romans 15:25-28, you will see that there was a great famine that especially caused hardship for the brethren in Judea and Jerusalem. Paul requested offerings from the Galatian, Corinthian, Macedonian, and Achaian brethren. He told them to gather the goods (food, clothing, etc.) prior to his arrival. He did not want to have to wait for the offerings to be gathered when he came. He then took all the relief items to Jerusalem to disperse to the needy saints. There is nothing in these verses to indicate a typical Sunday collection. It was a one time special collection because of the famine. And it was done on Sunday because of the tremendous amount of work involved in loading all the goods, something they would never have done on Sabbath.


I assume you are referring to Acts 20:7. What does it mean to “break bread”? Does it mean to take “the Lord’s supper” on Sunday? According to Acts 2:42-46, “breaking bread” was done daily. It simply means to have a meal. In Acts 20:7, the disciples finished Sabbath services on Saturday. After the sun set ending Sabbath and beginning the first day of the week, they had a meal together followed by Paul’s preaching until midnight Sunday (our Saturday night). The disciples held this special gathering because their beloved Paul was to leave the next morning (vs. 7). In the morning, he had planned to walk approx. 10 miles to Assos. Notice he would not take this strenuous, tiring trip on Sabbath, but waited instead until Sunday, another work day.


Actually, the NT writings are the only reliable historical records I am interested in. The corruption of the church came swiftly after Paul's departure as the mystery of iniquity, false teachers, false prophets and wolves in sheep's clothing spared not the flock (2 Thessalonians 2:7; 2 Peter 2:1; Matthew 7:15; 1 John 4:1; Acts 20:29).

Thank you.

Who are the wolves and who are the sheep? Who twisted scripture? And how do you know?

For the record, according to my research, it was in the year 1527AD that any real opposition came to worshiping on Sunday. Unless you can provide me with evidence otherwise I will stick with that.

Respectfully, Mary

Mary

 

[Marymog]

I just noticed you used a bogus translation. The word "every" is not in the Greek text. The correct translation is;

1 Corinthians 16:2 Upon the first of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.
​

As I wrote in my last post, this was a one time collection, not a weekly collection.

Ok...Doesn't change the facts.

Thank you.

 

[gadar perets]

Thank you.

Who are the wolves and who are the sheep? Who twisted scripture? And how do you know?

For the record, according to my research, it was in the year 1527AD that any real opposition came to worshiping on Sunday. Unless you can provide me with evidence otherwise I will stick with that.

Respectfully, Mary

Mary

The Jews kept the Sabbath for hundreds of years before Yeshua came. Yeshua kept it all his life (our example). The apostles kept it, including Paul. Then Paul died and corruption set in. It is not I that needs to provide evidence that the Sabbath continued. It is you that must provide evidence it ceased. It is a given fact that it did not cease unless there is a command from the Father or the Son or an apostle showing it was changed to Sunday.

Who twisted scripture? I just showed you how your Christian interpretation of 1 Corinthians 16 and Acts 20 are twisted. If you disagree with my interpretation, please explain why. Am I misunderstanding those verses?

 

[gadar perets]

Ok...Doesn't change the facts.

Thank you.

Ok...Doesn't change the facts.

Thank you.

No, it doesn't "change" the facts. It establishes the facts. Do you agree that "every" does not belong in that verse? If so, then it does NOT refer to a weekly collection.

 

[Marymog]

The Jews kept the Sabbath for hundreds of years before Yeshua came. Yeshua kept it all his life (our example). The apostles kept it, including Paul. Then Paul died and corruption set in. It is not I that needs to provide evidence that the Sabbath continued. It is you that must provide evidence it ceased. It is a given fact that it did not cease unless there is a command from the Father or the Son or an apostle showing it was changed to Sunday.

Who twisted scripture? I just showed you how your Christian interpretation of 1 Corinthians 16 and Acts 20 are twisted. If you disagree with my interpretation, please explain why. Am I misunderstanding those verses?

Hi,

I know there is no evidence or proof or interpretation that I can give you that will change your mind.

Scripture says Sunday. The ONLY historical records we have are SUNDAY. I have scripture and the earliest Christian writings as evidence. You have your opinion.

Can you please provide ANY proof that Christians in the first 100 years after the death of Jesus practiced Saturday church services?

If not then our conversation ends.

Mary

 

[GodsGrace]

Hi,

I know there is no evidence or proof or interpretation that I can give you that will change your mind.

Scripture says Sunday. The ONLY historical records we have are SUNDAY. I have scripture and the earliest Christian writings as evidence. You have your opinion.

Can you please provide ANY proof that Christians in the first 100 years after the death of Jesus practiced Saturday church services?

If not then our conversation ends.

Mary

I've looked, and I can't find any evidence from the ECF that the Eucharist was celebrated on Sunday.
In the Didache, for instance, it says "on the day of the Lord".
Jesus was found gone from the tomb on the first day of the week. That would be Sunday.
I'm sure you've gone through this,,,I just got here.
Any comments?

 

[Marymog]

I've looked, and I can't find any evidence from the ECF that the Eucharist was celebrated on Sunday.
In the Didache, for instance, it says "on the day of the Lord".
Jesus was found gone from the tomb on the first day of the week. That would be Sunday.
I'm sure you've gone through this,,,I just got here.
Any comments?

Didache says On the day of the Lord is Sunday

Barnabas written 80 AD (while the Apostle John was still alive) We keep the eighth day with joyfulness, the day also on which Jesus rose again from the dead" (Epistle of Barnabas)


Ignatius: "[T]hose who were brought up in the ancient order of things [i.e. Jews] have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord's day, on which also our life has sprung up again by him and by his death" (Letter to the Magnesians 8 [A.D. 107]).

Justin Martyr: "Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Savior on the same day rose from the dead. For he was crucified on the day before that of Saturn [Saturday]; and on the day after that of Saturn . . . having appeared to his apostles and disciples, he taught them these things, which we have submitted to you also" (First Apology 67 [A.D. 152]).

I could go on and on thru history but it is a waste of time for anyone that already has their mind made up. There is no record that I know if that says otherwise.

Mary

 

[GodsGrace]

Didache says On the day of the Lord is Sunday

Barnabas written 80 AD (while the Apostle John was still alive) We keep the eighth day with joyfulness, the day also on which Jesus rose again from the dead" (Epistle of Barnabas)


Ignatius: "[T]hose who were brought up in the ancient order of things [i.e. Jews] have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord's day, on which also our life has sprung up again by him and by his death" (Letter to the Magnesians 8 [A.D. 107]).

Justin Martyr: "Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Savior on the same day rose from the dead. For he was crucified on the day before that of Saturn [Saturday]; and on the day after that of Saturn . . . having appeared to his apostles and disciples, he taught them these things, which we have submitted to you also" (First Apology 67 [A.D. 152]).

I could go on and on thru history but it is a waste of time for anyone that already has their mind made up. There is no record that I know if that says otherwise.

Mary

Thanks Mary.
I've been undecided about this.
What I can't understand is how one of the commandments could be changed.

 

[gadar perets]

Hi,

I know there is no evidence or proof or interpretation that I can give you that will change your mind.

Scripture says Sunday. The ONLY historical records we have are SUNDAY. I have scripture and the earliest Christian writings as evidence. You have your opinion.

Can you please provide ANY proof that Christians in the first 100 years after the death of Jesus practiced Saturday church services?

If not then our conversation ends.

The evidence you can provide is where Scripture says Sunday is the new Sabbath. Surely you have more than the two you provided which say nothing about the Sabbath being changed to Sunday.

As for my evidence, it comes from Scripture. Paul kept the Sabbath.

...the Gentiles begged that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath. Now when the congregation had broken up, many of the Jews and devout proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas, who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God. On the next Sabbath almost the whole city came together to hear the word of God. (Acts 13:42-44)​

Preaching and teaching to the Gentiles by the apostles took place on the Sabbath, not Sunday.

Notice also that teaching on the Sabbath was Paul's custom:

Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where there was a synagogue of the Jews. Then Paul, as his custom was, went in to them, and for three Sabbaths reasoned with them from the Scriptures, explaining and demonstrating that the Messiah had to suffer and rise again from the dead, and saying, "This Yeshua whom I preach to you is the Messiah." And some of them were persuaded; and a great multitude of the devout Greeks, and not a few of the leading women, joined Paul and Silas. (Acts 17:1-4)​

Also Acts 18:4 states:

And he reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath, and persuaded both Jews and Greeks.
​

Greeks attending the synagogue service on Sabbath? When they received Yeshua did they suddenly start going to Sunday church?

​

Paul said;

"Imitate me, just as I also imitate Messiah. (1 Corinthians 11:1)
​

Messiah Yeshua kept the 7th day Sabbath until the day he died. Paul imitated him. We are to imitate Paul and Yeshua as well. If Paul kept Sunday, he certainly was NOT imitating Messiah.

Paul also said in Acts 25:8;

While he answered for himself, Neither against the law of the Jews, neither against the temple, nor yet against Caesar, have I offended any thing at all.​

and in Acts 28:17;

And it came to pass, that after three days Paul called the chief of the Jews together: and when they were come together, he said unto them, Men and brethren, though I have committed nothing against the people, or customs of our fathers, yet was I delivered prisoner from Jerusalem into the hands of the Romans.
​

Had Paul abandoned the 7th day Sabbath in favor of Sunday, he would not only have broken the law, but would have immensely offended the Jews.

Paul died around 65 CE. Before he died he said, "For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock." Acts 20:29. How do you understand that?

 

[gadar perets]

Didache says On the day of the Lord is Sunday

The Didache never uses the word "Sunday" or the phrase "first day of the week".

Barnabas written 80 AD (while the Apostle John was still alive)

We keep the eighth day with joyfulness, the day also on which Jesus rose again from the dead" (Epistle of Barnabas)

There is nothing wrong with keeping the eighth day as long as you don't pollute the 7th day or teach it is the new Sabbath day.

Ignatius:

"[T]hose who were brought up in the ancient order of things [i.e. Jews] have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord's day, on which also our life has sprung up again by him and by his death" (Letter to the Magnesians 8 [A.D. 107]).

Justin Martyr: "Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Savior on the same day rose from the dead. For he was crucified on the day before that of Saturn [Saturday]; and on the day after that of Saturn . . . having appeared to his apostles and disciples, he taught them these things, which we have submitted to you also" (First Apology 67 [A.D. 152]).

I could go on and on thru history but it is a waste of time for anyone that already has their mind made up. There is no record that I know if that says otherwise.

Mary

All of your sources were written after Paul died and wolves came in not sparing the flock. False teachers introduced Sunday as the new Sabbath.

 

[GodsGrace]

The evidence you can provide is where Scripture says Sunday is the new Sabbath. Surely you have more than the two you provided which say nothing about the Sabbath being changed to Sunday.

As for my evidence, it comes from Scripture. Paul kept the Sabbath.

...the Gentiles begged that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath. Now when the congregation had broken up, many of the Jews and devout proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas, who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God. On the next Sabbath almost the whole city came together to hear the word of God. (Acts 13:42-44)​

Preaching and teaching to the Gentiles by the apostles took place on the Sabbath, not Sunday.

Notice also that teaching on the Sabbath was Paul's custom:

Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where there was a synagogue of the Jews. Then Paul, as his custom was, went in to them, and for three Sabbaths reasoned with them from the Scriptures, explaining and demonstrating that the Messiah had to suffer and rise again from the dead, and saying, "This Yeshua whom I preach to you is the Messiah." And some of them were persuaded; and a great multitude of the devout Greeks, and not a few of the leading women, joined Paul and Silas. (Acts 17:1-4)​

Also Acts 18:4 states:

And he reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath, and persuaded both Jews and Greeks.
​

Greeks attending the synagogue service on Sabbath? When they received Yeshua did they suddenly start going to Sunday church?

​

Paul said;

"Imitate me, just as I also imitate Messiah. (1 Corinthians 11:1)
​

Messiah Yeshua kept the 7th day Sabbath until the day he died. Paul imitated him. We are to imitate Paul and Yeshua as well. If Paul kept Sunday, he certainly was NOT imitating Messiah.

Paul also said in Acts 25:8;

While he answered for himself, Neither against the law of the Jews, neither against the temple, nor yet against Caesar, have I offended any thing at all.​

and in Acts 28:17;

And it came to pass, that after three days Paul called the chief of the Jews together: and when they were come together, he said unto them, Men and brethren, though I have committed nothing against the people, or customs of our fathers, yet was I delivered prisoner from Jerusalem into the hands of the Romans.
​

Had Paul abandoned the 7th day Sabbath in favor of Sunday, he would not only have broken the law, but would have immensely offended the Jews.

Paul died around 65 CE. Before he died he said, "For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock." Acts 20:29. How do you understand that?

This sounds so good.
My main concern is still just the fact that a commandment has been changed.

 

[Helen]

Roman 14:5
"One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind."

As Jesus is our Sabbath Rest...it does not matter a hill of beans.

 

[GodsGrace]

Roman 14:5
"One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind."

As Jesus is our Sabbath Rest...it does not matter a hill of beans.

I also say that every day is the Sabbath. But we do have to put aside one day a week for service.

 

[Marymog]

Thanks Mary.
I've been undecided about this.
What I can't understand is how one of the commandments could be changed.

Jesus changed a lot of things....didn’t he. He also said to the Apostles what you bind on earth will be bound in heaven. Scripture and Christian historical writings from the times of the Apostles say Sunday. Nothing else.

Keep holy the Sabbath is a ceremonial commandment. All the others are moral commandments. Many ceremonial practices of the Jews were changed with Jesus.

Mary

 

[Marymog]

Roman 14:5
"One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind."

As Jesus is our Sabbath Rest...it does not matter a hill of beans.

Everyday should be a sabbath