Rest In Your Residency

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by Netchaplain, Nov 24, 2016.

  1. Netchaplain

    Netchaplain Ordained Chaplain

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    There is no time like the present for you to begin resting in your Father’s presence. He sees you there, in His beloved Son. It is a simple, scriptural matter of seeing yourself there “in full assurance of faith” (Heb 10:22). You are there in glory before the Father; not in the flesh, not in the body, but in spirit as a “new creation” in Christ Jesus.

    This is not the time to visualize, or even to verbalize; and certainly not to fantasize. It is the time, by faith in the facts, to actualize. It is the time to rest in your residency, to personalize your position. The Father has seen you there before His face since the day you were saved. In eternity past He chose you for that position, “according as He hath chosen you in Him (Christ) before the foundation of the world” (Eph 1:4).

    As you by faith in the positional facts realize that you are in the Father’s presence, you will not try to depend upon any sense of His presence. Adulthood supersedes childhood. Now you know His presence because you know that your position in the Christian life is a life of faith in the facts—nothing else. Thus the Father enables you to live by faith so as to draw you into His presence—not you, by sense, seeking to draw Him into yours.

    Fellowship between you and your Father involves oneness, a commonality. As you in faith occupy your position, you find yourself not only in His presence, but in His life and nature—the human-divine* newness of the life of your rebirth. You are there in the full acceptance of His beloved Son (Eph 1:6), and that is what you are: beloved of God. “We are bound to give thanks always to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation” (2 Thes 2:13).

    Your blessed responsibility and privilege for now is to quietly sit where you have been seated by the Father—and that is in His presence. You have no other place. This world is certainly not your home. The Father “hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus” (Eph2:6). You occupy and abide in your position by faith; you will begin to experience the resultant fellowship as the Holy Spirit prepares you (2 Co 3:18).

    As you rest, abiding above in your Source, in “Christ who is our life” (Col 3:4), you will have a new appreciation of a sound doctrinal foundation and superstructure. Without regeneration of course, you would not be where you are; without assurance and security, you would not be able to rest where you are.

    Further, without knowledge of your identification with the Lord Jesus in His death unto sin and life unto God, you would not even know of your position before the Father, nor of your privilege to abide there in His Son. These same truths assure you that you have been freed from the old man by death and made a new man in the New Man, thereby being made “fit to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light” (Col 1:12). The basis upon which the Holy Spirit carries on the subjective work in you, is the objective truth of your eternal completeness in the Lord Jesus Christ: crucified, buried, risen and ascended (Gal 2:20; Rom 6:3-5; Eph 2:6; Col 3:3, 4).

    As J.B. Stoney stated, “When I look at this place, He is not here; and when I look at myself naturally I am not fit for Him. How happy then to know that I belong to the place where He is; and that through grace I have been made suited to Him in that new position; so that I set my mind and affection there, as the place where my deepest joys are realized.”

    - Miles J Stanford





    Poster’s Opinion:

    * “Human-divine”: Gill – ‘That by these you might be partakers of the divine nature’; not essentially, or of the essence of God, so as to be deified, this is impossible, for the nature, perfections, and glory of God, are incommunicable to creatures; nor, hypostatically and personally, so as the human nature of Christ, in union with the Son of God, is a partaker of the divine nature in Him.

    “But by way of resemblance and likeness, the new man or principle of grace, being formed in the heart in regeneration, after the image of God, and bearing a likeness to the image of His Son (Col 3:10), and this is styled, Christ formed in the heart, into which image and likeness the saints are more and more changed, from glory to glory (2 Co 3:18), through the application of the Gospel, and the promises of it, by which they have such sights of Christ as do transform them, and assimilate them to Him; and which resemblance will be perfected hereafter, when they shall be entirely like Him, and ‘see Him as He is’” (1 Jhn 3:2).


    Miles J Stanford Devotional: http://www.abideabove.com/hungry-heart/
     
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  2. Phoneman777

    Phoneman777 Well-Known Member

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    Everyone agrees that Christians are to keep the "spirit of the law".

    The "letter of the law" forbids adultery and the "spirit of the law" forbids looking in lust.
    The "letter of the law" forbids murder and the "spirit of the law" forbids unjust anger.
    The "letter of the law" forbids false witness against our neighbor and the "spirit of the law" forbids all manner of deceit.

    Since it is impossible to keep the "spirit of the law" while actively breaking the "letter of the law" (for to suggest that a man may actively engage in adultery as long as he doesn't lust after the person with which he is having sex is absolutely the height of stupidity, insanity, or both), and that our obligation to keep the "spirit of the law" never allows for the free disregard of the "letter of the law", I have a simple question:

    Why do those who profess to follow Jesus insist that they may freely disregard the plain "letter of the law" to work Sunday through Friday and then rest on the seventh day Sabbath because they claim to be keeping the "spirit of the law" which they claim is "resting in the finished work of Jesus"?

    Such inconsistency in an age when the adage should be "Consistency, thou art a jewel".
     
  3. Heb 13:8

    Heb 13:8 Member

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    Lordship salvation is false.
     
  4. skypair

    skypair Member

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    Now, if you want to fantasize something that the Bible says, fantasize this: Our saved soul is already "seated in heavenly places in Christ Jesus." When we are saved, we are one essence (Holy Spirit) with the Father and the Son (Jn 17:21-23). Even Jesus, while He walked the earth .. His soul was with the Father in heaven all the time. That is why, though His spirit went to sheol, His soul never died. The Father IS the soul of Jesus. So yes, we are in the presence of God though we do not yet perceive that.

    We are actually "Comforters," NC. We are a form of the divinity of God.

    We are exactly like Jesus was — terrrestrial glory — man's body indwelt by the Spirit of God.

    skypair
     
  5. Netchaplain

    Netchaplain Ordained Chaplain

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    Now, if you want to fantasize something that the Bible says, fantasize this: Our saved soul is already "seated in heavenly places in Christ Jesus." When we are saved, we are one essence (Holy Spirit) with the Father and the Son (Jn 17:21-23). Even Jesus, while He walked the earth .. His soul was with the Father in heaven all the time. That is why, though His spirit went to sheol, His soul never died. The Father IS the soul of Jesus. So yes, we are in the presence of God though we do not yet perceive that.

    We are actually "Comforters," NC. We are a form of the divinity of God.

    We are exactly like Jesus was — terrrestrial glory — man's body indwelt by the Spirit of God.

    skypair






    Not much here that we've not already discussed. Unless I'm misunderstanding you concerning what you're sharing on "essence," to say that we become the same essence as God is saying we becomes gods (which I'm suspecting is not your meaning), and we all know that is a red-flag errant concept, esp. among those who are of the New Age sentiment--and the devil's own fall.
     
  6. skypair

    skypair Member

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    Not necessarily. Did not David and Jesus, Himself say, "Ye are gods?" What did they mean? We are free moral agents like God. We decide what our moral code is and who we consider to be gods over us. So even without Christ, we are "gods."

    So the one essence of Father, Son, and Comforter is the Holy Spirit .. such that the mind of the Lord is in the Father and Son and the mind of Christ/Holy Spirit is in us .. in our souls superintending our own spirits.

    Now this is a new paradigm, NC, I admit. It is based on the truth that the Spirit is not personified except in indwelling a person, a body. The Father has a body (Rev 4:2, Isa 6:1,Ezek 1:26) .. the Son had a body .. and the Comforter is the believer in Christ -- another like Jesus.

    skypair
     
  7. justaname

    justaname Disciple of Jesus Christ Staff Member

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    This is a false teaching. We are not free moral agents like God. You ought to look into the context of where Jesus presents the psalm to His audience. Jesus is the only begotten Son of God, born of the flesh (Mary) and of the Holy Spirit. He is without an earthly father, yet His Father is God. Jesus is the Firstborn of creation being eternal sent from the Father from heaven. Thus He is rightly the only begotten Son of God. Then I suggest you go back to Psalm 82 and read that Psalm in its entirety. It is not presenting what you suggest at all.

    Morality is received from the nature of God, not from our choosing. As agents with the ability to choose we can decide what we consider right from wrong but ultimately our choices amount to our greatest desire at any given moment. It is not our decisions that prove the morality rather the nature of God dictates what is or is not moral. Before we are reconciled to God, we in bondage to sin and under the wrath of God. It is only through faith in Christ that we are set free from that bondage. Without faith humans can do nothing that is pleasing to God, thus we are ultimately immoral before God. Humans may be able to make decisions that appear moral in action to other humans, yet God is able to judge the heart and the motive behind these actions.

    We can not decide who is over us, rather we are subject to what actually is. It is God who is Sovereign not ourselves or our decisions. We can not decide who the Sovereign is because He is already established eternally. Some choose not to recognize the sovereignty of God with His authority and rule, yet this does not diminish the reality of His position.

    Finally your paradigm is not new at all rather its roots go back to the garden with the fallen serpent; ye will be like God. The Holy Spirit is not the essence of the Father and the Son rather He is the third person of the triune nature of God, different in person and office, yet also of one essence. You in your theology have reduced the person and work of the Holy Spirit to a force or a power. Such a teaching is apostate. We as believers do not share in the essence of God, we have access to the divine nature. We are not "another like Jesus" we await adoption. Again Jesus is the only begotten Son, we are not like Him. The Holy Spirit is the seal and guarantee of our salvation, not our essence.
     
  8. Netchaplain

    Netchaplain Ordained Chaplain

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    My friend, I would start conferring with Bible commentators if you truly desire to search for Biblical truth, otherwise we are limiting our understanding (Psa 3:5), for "if any man think that he knoweth anything, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know" (1 Co 8:2). Not using men of God's Word is a mistake many make.
     
  9. skypair

    skypair Member

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    This is going to be fun! :)
    I agree, In context, Jesus was claiming to be God. But He was also deflecting their accusation of heresy by saying that, indeed, they were gods, too. And He was revealing the truth.

    “I said, ‘You are “gods”; you are all sons of the Most High.’ We are also God's "offspring," Acts 17:27-28. We weren't born physically of God but spiritually at birth.



    No, Jesus had a heavenly Father and an earthly step-father. It is we who are born of earthly fathers.



    Then I suggest you go back to Psalm 82 and read that Psalm in its entirety. It is not presenting what you suggest at all.[/QUOTE]Actually, it is. "He stands in the congregation of the righteous," right? That's His people, Israel, at the time. "...and He judges among the gods." Again, Israel or at least believing Israel.



    Right .. we are His spiritual offspring and He puts the "law in their hearts, their consciences meanwhile bearing them witness..." (Eph 2:14-15) at birth. We KNOW when we are guilty of sin in our conscience .. and we are not guilty from birth.

    The problem is that Calvin and Calvinism NEVER deals with the soul of man. There is only one spirit of man and one body to them. But do you know what needs to be saved? THE SOUL (Jas 1:21, 5:20, Heb 10:38-39) and Calvinists are "of those who draw back," Heb 10:39. They get right to the point of doing something about what they believe .. and then the draw back from repenting.



    Which Greek god are you talking about here? :( "Some choose not to recognize" but those who don't choose at all .. for them He is their authority???



    God even admitted what Satan said, "They are become as one of us." (Gen 3:22) Knowing good and evil and being able to choose between them for oneself is the essence of "free moral agent." But see, God all along intended for us to become as He was .. in His image.



    I understand where you are coming from .. that little triangle diagram where it says God in the center and Persons on the corners. But what is God? "God is spirit and He is truth" and He seeks such as will "worship Him in spirit and in truth." So what should be in the center is Spirit with Father, Son, and Comforter (all actual Persons) in the corners .. not person being another but all having the same one Spirit.



    Really??? So is this an admission that the Holy Spirit does not live in you?



    And you have not received the divine nature? Should we even be talking about "spiritual things" that you can't understand?



    In this world, we are "attaining to the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ" (Eph 4:13), yes. We will receive the fulness of Him in the rapture.



    So you seem to be saying here that the Spirit is a thing (seal, guarantee), not a person. Very good. In fact, the Spirit is the "engrafted word" of God -- "the mind of Christ." (1Cor 2:16)

    skypair
     
  10. skypair

    skypair Member

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    That is VERY problematic, IMO. First off, which theologists are you going to believe and which not? The only reliable source for interpreting the Bible is the Bible which is the mind of Christ, the Holy Spirit. And what comes of that is that the "Word is made flesh" in YOU as it was in Christ Jesus.

    I used to do what you suggest and some were good approximations of the truth. I'm thinking especially of Mt 13, but they never totally got it. And it is very much like the doctrine of the Trinity. The orthodox doctrine is from the "baptismal formula" in Mt 28:19 that originated in the early Catholic Church -- as if the got anything right, eh?

    The main thing is to make sure you are saved before you try to understand "spiritual things."

    skypair
     
  11. Netchaplain

    Netchaplain Ordained Chaplain

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    It stands to reason that the more a Christian applies His life to the study of the Word, the more the Spirit is going to "teach" (1 Co 2:13). Commentators generally agree in everything and thus teach the same. Being different people there will be different ways of explanation, but the general truth of their teachings agree.

    Intellectually, it's the advantage learning the Biblical languages and other studies which require much it not most of one's life time, so you can be more used and more efficient in what the Spirit teaches.

    Blessings!
     
  12. justaname

    justaname Disciple of Jesus Christ Staff Member

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    It seems this is a game to you. I read through your comments and the twisting approach you used. If you choose to have a real and direct dialogue I am willing, yet your current tactic is telling me a completely different story. I never once mentioned Calvin or Calvinism. I do not speak of greek gods. I have never denied the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and so fourth. These types of straw man approaches do nothing to advance a dialogue, only they are a vain attempt to win an argument with unethical means. Then from reading post#10 it seems your are prideful and unwilling to receive truth, rather are beholden to the idea of a form of self-attainment.

    I know of these heretical teachings and their origins; Lucifer. If you remember correctly Adam was told not to eat of the tree. It is Adam's direct rebellion that gave him experiential knowledge of good and evil. Before Adam rebelled he was only good. It is the fallen rebellious nature that stained being made in His image. What God has done in providing His Son is enable believers to break free from the sinful, prideful rebellion, through receiving His Spirit. This in no wise makes believers divine. Even as we are being molded into the image of Jesus Christ, we are not partakers of His eternal divinity, only in life eternal that He offers. The aspect of what makes one divine can never be embodied in the creature only in the Creator. (John 1:1) This then is what it is to be God and divine, differed from gods; partakers of the divine nature. God is One and there is none like Him. Believers will always be subject to the objectivity of the Sovereign, under His rule and authority. We are not nor will we ever be the originators transcendent from the creation, we can only exist within the creation. This divine principle will always cause a divide between the creature and the Creator.

    Now lets look into Psalm 82 and its opening:

    God takes His stand in His own congregation;
    He judges in the midst of the rulers.

    How long will you judge unjustly
    And show partiality to the wicked? Selah.

    From the beginning of the text God is presented as superior to the congregation being that God's ownership or possession is being presented in the first line. Here in the second line God is casting judgement over the congregation and rightly so because He is judging His own possession. Finally in the third line God shows the inadequacy in the congregation through their unjust judging.

    This is key to understanding the Psalm. Never is the congregation presented as being equals with God, rather from the beginning they are shown as subject to God and inferior in their ability to judge. Verse 5 brings this into clear sight:

    They do not know nor do they understand;
    They walk about in darkness;

    All the foundations of the earth are shaken.

    What kind of god is dark in understanding and without knowledge? Answer: no real god at all.

    Then we have the verse in question:

    I said, “You are gods,
    And all of you are sons of the Most High.
    “Nevertheless you will die like men
    And fall like any one of the princes.”

    Arise, O God, judge the earth!
    For it is You who possesses all the nations.

    See again how the true God is being juxtaposed against these other "gods". They are proclaimed to die like men. Their divinity is stained by mortality and proves to be no real divinity at all. These "gods" are not like the true God even though they rule here on earth, they are subject to the One who judges the earth! It is God that possesses the nations.

    So then when the Psalmist is referring to the rulers as gods, he is not reminding them of their divinity rather of their authority they have on earth and their failure of executing proper judgment. Then the Psalmist elevates their position even reminding them they should know better by calling them "sons of the Most High". They had the law and understand the ordinances. They were in covenantal relation to the Most High and understood what it is to judge justly.
     
  13. skypair

    skypair Member

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    So, no. But does it not occur to you that what you are saying resembles Greek deity rather than the biblical God? Did my illustrations not highlight the problem?



    So let's talk about the Bible teachings of free will, ability to respond to the gospel, ability to influence our own fate. I'm all for that rather than the teachings of some theologian or other.

    And in order to receive His Spirit, we must repent and be forgiven by God.



    What gave you that idea? Scripture says that we, by the Spirit, are made partakers of the divine nature, 2Pet 1:4. We receive it. I don't know what you might have found to contradict that.



    The aspect of what makes one divine can never be embodied in the creature only in the Creator. (John 1:1[/QUOTE]So you don't believe or don't understand the "mystery of Christ in you?" (Col 1:27)



    So we are not sons but servants of God, right? (Jn 15:14-15)


    His own congregation;
    He judges in the midst of the rulers.

    How long will you judge unjustly
    And show partiality to the wicked? Selah.

    From the beginning of the text God is presented as superior to the congregation being that God's ownership or possession is being presented in the first line. Here in the second line God is casting judgement over the congregation and rightly so because He is judging His own possession. Finally in the third line God shows the inadequacy in the congregation through their unjust judging.

    Well, what I see is that God is comparing His judging as God to their judging as gods. As gods, we are called upon to judge between men as God here admits.



    Is this your view or someone's commentary? Because, yes, God is telling them that they are blind judges -- they have gone away from Him.



    Same as Ro 17:27-28 says -- we are the offspring of God. That doesn't mean that we are divine. No, not until we are indwelt by the Holy Spirit/Christ/God.



    "Other gods" = men, perhaps men who were leaders of the Jews.



    And yet if man has eternal life, mortality is no more an issue, right? I mean, even God-Jesus died and didn't lose His divinity, did He?



    Right, just as the son, Jesus, was-is-ever shall be subject to the Father, right?

    skypair
     
  14. justaname

    justaname Disciple of Jesus Christ Staff Member

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    Skypair,

    I am uncertain how you are quoting, yet as you can see it is confusing the system. I am going to be brief in my response as there are only certain things I want to address.

    First I stated, "Even as we are being molded into the image of Jesus Christ, we are not partakers of His eternal divinity, only in life eternal that He offers."

    I may need to clarify a bit as you seem confused as to what I am conveying. Jesus' eternal state goes from eternity past to eternity future. We as creatures have a definite beginning, at our physical birth and our spiritual rebirth (upon belief). This is a major distinction.

    Then Scripture presents we are partakers in the divine nature, not in divinity itself. I think it would be a good study for you to see what is meant by divine nature. Again we are not divine, we have the divine in us, a big distinction again. That makes us holy, not divine.

    Then I would say we are both sons and servants. Paul continually addressed himself as a slave of Jesus Christ, yet he also presents believers as sons awaiting adoption.

    Concerning Jesus, He was/is/will be eternally divine. The second person in the triune nature of God. His divinity is not contested. Believers are not divine, only made in God's image, and are being conformed into the image of Jesus Christ. We are given access to the divine nature, we are not made divine.

    Jesus is subject to the Father as the Father's Word is subject to Truth, they are One in nature and never in contradiction.

    Finally you stated, "So let's talk about the Bible teachings of free will, ability to respond to the gospel, ability to influence our own fate. I'm all for that rather than the teachings of some theologian or other."

    I believe this is a different discussion that deserves its own thread.
     
  15. Phoneman777

    Phoneman777 Well-Known Member

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    Not sure what you mean, but if you mean that Jesus is not our Lord to Whom our obedience is not an option (Luke 6:46 KJV), then I disagree. You can't have Jesus as your Savior without having Him as your Lord. To argue this is so is to argue in favor of both Jesus and Satan having joint custody of the kids.
     
  16. skypair

    skypair Member

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    Sure, and the difference that Jesus never sinned and we have. Our divine nature is received (1Pet 1:4) and His was not. But can you see that, if we are to receive His divine nature, then we have to somehow deal with our sin guilt and sin nature (our thoughts and our ways)? We cannot be like Jesus and be guilty of sin.



    Right, the divine nature is of the soul. That is only the first step in God creating us in the image of Christ. Here's how salvation works: The Father justifies us giving us the divine nature/Holy Spirit in our soul .. then the Spirit/mind of Christ/scripture sanctifies us throughout our lives .. and eventually, we are raptured into glorified bodies at the coming of Christ, be judged (1Cor 3:13-15), and we will receive divinity.



    Then I would say we are both sons and servants. Paul continually addressed himself as a slave of Jesus Christ, yet he also presents believers as sons awaiting adoption.
    No biggy there but in Jn 15:!5 Jesus also says "I no longer call you 'servants' because a servant doesn't know what his master is doing." Paul called himself a bondservant because he was a saved Jew/servant born (again) out of season to be a saved new covenant saint.




    Not sure this is true. Phil 2:5-8 says the Christ "emptied Himself" of His divinity and was obedient unto death when, for sure, in taking our sin He was forsaken by God and not divine. In other words, He became like us so that we could become like Him.


    Not yet anyway right? But the nature of our soul is as Jesus' soul. What is the soul made up of? the heart and the conscience together = our nature.


    Except on the cross when He took our sin.

    skypair
     
  17. justaname

    justaname Disciple of Jesus Christ Staff Member

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    Yes, sanctification.

    Let me assure you NO WHERE IN SCRIPTURE does it state we will receive divinity. This is simply your misinterpretation concerning us receiving a glorified body.

    And Jesus also said the greatest in heaven is the servant of all. We are definitely slaves to righteousness. Peter also called himself a slave of Jesus Christ. And finally so did Jude. I think you need to see yourself as the writers of Scripture did, a slave, as opposed to your misinterpretation of being divine. I will post a relevant verse.

    Here the text does not state Jesus emptied Himself of His divinity. You are some how reading this into the text, it simply is not there.

    Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.

    This attitude you are proclaiming, equality with God or being divine, is explicitly expressed against in Scripture and Jesus Himself did not even don such an attitude. Jesus Christ took on the form of a slave. As we are here, should we not follow His example? This is that relevant verse I promised.

    Then another place Paul references our being a slave to the Lord:
    The Lord’s bond-servant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, able to teach, patient when wronged,

    I can not see anywhere in Scripture where it states we will ever be divine. God is divine. We can not become divine, you either are divine or you are not divine. Luciferainism, New Age Spiritualism, and Christian Science teach an attaining or becoming god, or at the least a self actualization or realization. Christians are the progeny of God, yet we recognize the divine in God Himself not of or for ourselves. We are made in His image, and we are being conformed into the image of Christ, we are given of His Spirit, but that does not make us divine. How can the creature ever surmise himself to be equal to the Creator? The creature will never escape the reality of creation whereas the Creator is transcendent of His creation. Christ is the only begotten of God, the very Logos of God, thus Jesus is divine and the Firstborn of all creation, separate from all His brethren.

    Remember Peter's folly at the transfiguration.

    Peter said to Jesus, “Lord, it is good for us to be here; if You wish, I will make three tabernacles here, one for You, and one for Moses, and one for Elijah.” While he was still speaking, a bright cloud overshadowed them, and behold, a voice out of the cloud said, “This is My beloved Son, with whom I am well-pleased; listen to Him!”

    Neither Moses nor Elijah are divine and a distinction is sharply made with authority given to Jesus above the others.
     
  18. skypair

    skypair Member

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    Yet all the good works we do in the future in no way pays for the sins of the past .. nor has our nature changed one iota if we have not obeyed the gospel.



    Is or is not God creating men in His own image? Is He divine or is He not?




    "… the servant of all" on this earth, yes. He will not be a servant in heaven, right? And I am not seeing the term "slave" used by Peter and James. My Bible says, "servant." So realize this: Jn 15:14-15 — Jesus did used to call them "servants" when they didn't know what the "Master" was doing .. but afterward He called them "friends." They were still Jews at that point which was before the resurrection. Now we are called "sons of God," right?




    What do you think He emptied Himself of? And didn't His emptying make Him like us? Indeed, what would you say makes up the divine nature?



    In the form of a man, equality with God cannot be grasped .. Who, of course, was glorified bodily. But it also says that Jesus thought it not robbery to be equal with God .. and that is something we should consider .. "Let this mind be in you…" .. not of equality in every respect in this lifetime, but spiritually if the Holy Spirit/God is living in us.



    I would appreciate it if you would give citations. Was Paul quoting the OT? Is this something that was commanded of them and of us as well? I have no way of interpreting what you are claiming.




    (Underlined) Sure we will! And look, we are NOT in God's image now. God's image includes a soul and spirit like His. We are created in the pattern of God and our life-work is to be "conformed to the image of His Son" (Ro 8:30) spiritually, right? And 2Pet 1:4 says that in this life we are made "partakers of the divine nature."



    The transfiguration demonstrated that in the kingdom of God, we will be in the same bodies as Jesus, God.

    Here's something that might help you with this: The eschatological view of the Trinity is that God self-separated in order to save men but will be One Person in the New Earth/New Jerusalem. And therefore, "when we see Him, we will be like Him." We will see God's face, Rev 22:4, whereas now anyone that would see God would also die. In the eschatological view, we don't know who the 3rd member of the Trinity is but the Holy Spirit is not a Person. He has to indwell a person in order to have personage.

    skypair
     
  19. justaname

    justaname Disciple of Jesus Christ Staff Member

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    Jesus is the only atonement for sin.

    Genesis 1:26
    Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”

    Are you stating Adam was divine then lost his divinity at the fall?

    I wonder if you have learned from Jesus washing the disciples feet. The Kingdom of Heaven is not like it is here on earth. God is love. Love seeks the greatest good for others, it is not self serving. Jesus is the greatest in heaven and He does serve in love, better than anyone else ever has, is, or will. Jesus was not sent to be served, but to serve.

    Let me give you the Peter and Jude quotes with verse references:
    2 Peter 1:1

    Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ:

    The word translated "bond-servant" is actually better rendered "slave". This is from BDAG

    δοῦλος, ου, ὁ (Trag., Hdt.et al.; ins, pap, LXX, Philo, Joseph., Test12Patr)
    ① male slave as an entity in a socioeconomic context, slave (‘servant’ for ‘slave’ is largely confined to Biblical transl. and early American times [s. OED s.v. servant, 3a and b]; in normal usage at the present time the two words are carefully distinguished [Goodsp., Probs., 77–79]). Opp. ἐλεύθερος 1 Cor 7:21. Lit., in contrast


    William Arndt, Frederick W. Danker, and Walter Bauer, A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 2000), 259–260.

    Then here is the Jude:

    Jude, a bond-servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, To those who are the called, beloved in God the Father, and kept for Jesus Christ:

    Then James 1

    James, a bond-servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ...

    Again the same word in the Greek is used by Jude and James: doulos. Again the words servant and slave are very different words and easily distinguishable in the Greek just like they are in English. So Jude, James, Peter, and Paul all called themselves slaves. More later to Paul's furthering the term to all believers.

    This has been a great theological debate since way before you and I have addressed this text. It is obvious you believe He emptied Himself of His divinity, yet if He did He can no longer be God. That is not the case as we know the Christ to be God. (John 1:1)

    The concept of the hypostatic union is Jesus is/was fully human and fully divine.

    No it does not also say that, we both are quoting the same verse with different translations. Yet your theory breaks down the first time a Spirit filled believer sins. We are not spiritually equal with God, we are given of His Spirit and we have access to the divine nature through that Spirit.

    That verse was 2 Timothy 2:24

    No we will continually remain in God's creation even after He creates a new heaven and new earth. We are not the Creator, we will always remain creatures, just as angels are also creatures. It was Satan that compared himself to the divine. His initial sin was coveting that led to pride. He then brought that sin to Eve...you will be like God.

    I do not see that being expressed in the text nor in the context. The only way you can surmise that is to read that information back into the text. Peter would have never thought that at the time. Jesus did not express this concept to Peter or anyone else. What you are doing is called eisegesis.

    Perhaps this is your eschatological view of the Trinity, but this no orthodox view. God is One. Father, Son, Holy Spirit. Three persons in one essence. God is in constant communion with Himself, in constant relation. No where in Scripture does it teach God will be one person as you are teaching.

    The Holy Spirit is the third person of the Trinity. I have news for you, this teaching of yours is not a Baptist teaching. It is heresy. It is closer to Jehovah's Witness or some other cult, but it is not orthodoxy.
     
  20. Phoneman777

    Phoneman777 Well-Known Member

    1,544
    31
    I posted what I feel is a fair challenge to a popular Christian axiom - "We need not concern ourselves with the "letter of the law" because we keep "the spirit of the law" as New Covenant Christians".

    I pointed out that while it seems on the surface to be exceedingly profound, it is actually exceedingly absurd - if a person keeps the "spirit of the law" he is by default keeping the "letter of the law". Surely, if you seek daily to keep your mind pure from impure sexual thoughts ("spirit of the law") then you most certainly are careful to not climb into the bed with someone other than your wife/husband ("letter of the law"), are you not?

    Therefore, if "resting in the finished work of Jesus" is what we New Covenant Christians do regarding the "spirit of the law" with respect to the Sabbath commandment, then why have we abandoned the "letter of the law" which God wrote with His own finger in stone that we should work six days and rest from work on the seventh? Mr. NetChaplain advises that we consult "men of God's Word" for a more comprehensive understanding of truth, an idea which rings of Catholic ideology. I submit that anyone who can't distinguish the difference between the first day and the seventh day, or can't recognize the glaring inconsistency of such ludicrous axioms as the one aforementioned, is hardly equipped to assist the Holy Spirit in His work to 'guide you into all truth".