Revelation 2

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

th1b.taylor

Active Member
Dec 4, 2010
277
22
28
79
SE Texas
1 Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks; 2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars: 3 And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted.

Many are they that will report that the messages to the seven churches of Asia, now known as Asia Minor, has nothing of value today but for the sake of history. My Eighth Grade Teacher, Miss, C. C, Allen (also Charles Swindol´s History Teacher) started the new class, each year, with, ¨ Those, who do not learn History, must relive it.¨ I heard Chuck report on day that he had found Miss Allen´s statement to be true and I tell you that it is absolutely true! Today, the world has taken Matt. 7:1 out of the context it is spoken in and has shut the mouth of the Church, that is tragic. In the context we are taught to judge in the same manor we wish to be judged in but to always judge!

In the passage above, from the KJV, we see that Jesus/God is making note of their works and in verse 4 we will see that this is not a problem for that church, rather it is held up for comparison to the problems He finds with them.

4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love. 5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

So few, today, can give a testimony for the time and date of their conversion. I, and all of the elderly men in my class can tell you where we were, what we were doing and exactly how our lives changed in that moment. If you or one you know has performed the ¨duties¨ required for Salvation and there is no visible change you might need to council with them.

For those of us that are secure in our salvation, we need to do a Spiritual Inventory! Remember the fire of the moment when we were saved? Does it hurt your heart (your inner being) to see thousands of Lost Men and Women walking around you every day? In Matt. 28:18-20 Jesus called us to the Great Commission and to nothing else! How many people have you asked to receive the LORD in the last month and how many Babes in Christ have you Discipled (Mentored) to Spiritual Maturity?

6 But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.

Here is another is another commendation for this Church. It is uncertain what the Nicolaitans taught but I will suggest to you that it was probably some form of ear tickling. When was the last time you heard an Old Time Fire and Brimstone message on the prizes of Hell? Just as was foretold by our LORD there are few today that can eat (hear and reason with) the Meat of Scripture. I believe there are churches (Buildings where the Church meets) that contain not a single Christian today.

7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

Here we find the reward for faithfulness. This is not the reward for the person that got his or her Sunday School Pin for faithful attendance! No, this is for those that have been found faithful and have overcome the temptation to sit in front of the Idiot Tube, to become saturated with the latest novel, to know the latest and complete stats of the Houston Texans. This reward (Crown) goes to him or her that has continually returned to the LORD´s service.

8 And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive; 9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

I am a proud American Veteran and I know that the man living under the bridge on the way into town is among the top ten percent of the wealthiest people in the world. In my latter years I have found that it concerns me that I can no longer be a wealth contributing member to the nation I live in but, at the same time, I now have the time to do greater works for the LORD than I have ever done in the past, I am richer in my poverty than I ever was in my wealth. I find new ways to help my Church Family (the Church) than I ever had the time to discover in the past.

10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life. 11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

What a sweet promise! Think about what Jesus has just said in the fashion of a parable. When we look back, just before the Millennial Reign is finished, these seventy to hundred years or so will be but a wisp in time. As a Christian, my time of trouble is very short but for those that never call upon the LORD for salvation will still be suffering ten thousand years from today. They will suffer the Second Death every day, all day long.

12 And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write; These things saith he which hath the sharp sword with two edges; 13 I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth. 14 But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication. 15 So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate.

The most important thing of all to remember is that the God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and the Christians is neither stupid, nor is God blind. There is a rule for the beginning of understanding scripture, ¨Never attempt to understand any verse or group of verses with out the light of all scripture shinning upon it.¨ When we allow the world to influence our teaching, the way we have in the matter of judgement, as per Matt. 1, we are teaching the doctrines Satan wants for us... a doctrine of Balaam? It is not of the LORD. In Mal. 3:6a we learn that God never changes.

Any time you can listen to or read a teaching that is contrary to what God has taught in the past and it does not line up with the Word of God without bending something... it is not from God, no matter how much it tickles your ears or warms your heart, it is a lie and not from God.

16 Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth. 17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

One contention I have always taught and frequently rebuked for is that the instructions to all of the churches in Asia is cumulative and additionally, is applicable for instruction to all Christianity. The evidence for this position is found in the pluralization of the word church in the cautions of these passages.

18 And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass; 19 I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first. 20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. 21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.

A Christian, a name to commonly used today, or a church can do multitudes of good works and all of it amount to nothing if it is performed under the wrong circumstances. In the passage above we find that a woman named Jezebel has proclaimed herself a Prophetess is teaching in the church and leading them into fornication. We need be very careful with this term here. It is a practical requirement that one come to an understanding of the Hebrew Bible (the Old Testament of our modern day Bibles) before the Revelation of Jesus, as given to John can ever begin to be understood.

Here fornication can mean two and perhaps more things. The first is the obvious one involving a man and a strange woman. The second, as defined in the scriptures is God´s people, having given themselves to Him, also seeking to serve other, lessor, gods. In my understanding of this passage I have not been led to discard the first entirely but rest most heavily on the Children of God playing with their idols/other gods.

22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.

It is a terrible thing to ne found in the hands of a Wrathful God!

23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

A Spiritual Inventory is a good thing for any man or woman to do of themselves, your very position in Eternity depends on it.

24 But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden. 25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come. 26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: 27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father. 28 And I will give him the morning star. 29 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

I do not know why the translators were led to break here and to let the next churches messages begin a new chapter but with all that is within me I know that they were led of the LORD to do so and for that reason and none other this study will wait on next weeks teaching.
 

Insight

New Member
Aug 7, 2011
1,259
5
0
6 But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.

Here is another is another commendation for this Church. It is uncertain what the Nicolaitans taught but I will suggest to you that it was probably some form of ear tickling. When was the last time you heard an Old Time Fire and Brimstone message on the prizes of Hell? Just as was foretold by our LORD there are few today that can eat (hear and reason with) the Meat of Scripture. I believe there are churches (Buildings where the Church meets) that contain not a single Christian today.

The Ephesians had this redeeming feature that they "hated the deeds of the Nicolaitanes," hated also by Christ!

He commends them because "they could not bear (doctrinally) them which are evil" (Rev 2:2).

Today Christians lack the hatred as recommended by Christ; and their love is mostly insipid as will be revealed in the last days.

We are all commanded to "hate every evil way" which includes false doctrine.

What is the use of loving good, if it does not induce in us a hatred of evil?

The commendation here was extended to the Ephesians for their righteous hatred, while at the same time, they were exhorted to develope a true love. The word "Nicolaitanes" is formed by the conjunction of two words: nicos—victory, and laitos-the people.

The word carries powerful lessons for those who dear look!

Nicolaitanes means: vanquishers of the people.

Clearly these people were errorists who introduced Gentile philosophy within the churches (See 1 Tim. 6:20 & 2 Tim. 2:16). Their "science," "gnosis," or knowledge was derived from Plato, and incorporated a belief in the immortality of the soul. The doctrine of the resurrection is an embarrassment to the teaching of an immortal soul, but these errorists got around this by teaching that the resurrection was already past (See 1 Cor. 15:12; 2 Tim. 2:18). The clear teaching of Truth by Paul and Timothy in Ephesus, developed a hatred of the Nicolaitanes with their false doctrine on the part of the brethren - an attitude of mind endorsed and encouraged by the Lord himself, who also looked with anger upon the hypocrites of his day (Mark 3:5. See also Ps. 97:10; 119:104 139:22).

The false doctrine of the immortality of the soul was at work prior to the birth of Jesus Christ.

Plato & the Nicolaitanes:

Plato was the heathen Greek philosopher (400 B.C.) who introduced Egyptian doctrines such as the immortality of the soul. Many consider him to be the greatest influence of pagan system of philosophy in Christianity today. Back in Rev 2 the truth was under considerable pressure and constantly combating error (See 1 Cor chapters 1 and 2).

Many Platonic philosophers followed and became the dominant force in Catholic Churches around the world, and Platonic philosophy has dominated the beliefs of "orthodox" Christendom from the 3rd century A.D to now here in this forum.

The realisation that the earliest Christians (Rev 2) aggressively fought heathen philosophy but sadly later "Christians" adopted it.

Hence this forum is plagued with talk of immortal souls.

Perhaps the Nicolaitanes can still be a warning to the astute Christian.
noidea.gif


Insight
 

th1b.taylor

Active Member
Dec 4, 2010
277
22
28
79
SE Texas
Hence this forum is plagued with talk of immortal souls.

Perhaps the Nicolaitanes can still be a warning to the astute Christian.

Insight
Insight,
The views just expressed by yourself in this post are anything but Bible based Christianity. You really do need to do a serious and comprehensive study of what God has revealed to us in His Holy Scriptures about the soul. Your premise makes a liar of Jesus/God and we all know that the one thing God cannot do is to sin! A lie being told is a sin and god did not lie in the writing of His Bible. If the Soul were not Eternal (I despise that worldly term, immortal) how is it that the unrepentant sinner can suffer Eternal Death, the Second Death? Iḿ sorry sir but you need to study more.
 

Insight

New Member
Aug 7, 2011
1,259
5
0
Insight,
The views just expressed by yourself in this post are anything but Bible based Christianity. You really do need to do a serious and comprehensive study of what God has revealed to us in His Holy Scriptures about the soul. Your premise makes a liar of Jesus/God and we all know that the one thing God cannot do is to sin! A lie being told is a sin and god did not lie in the writing of His Bible. If the Soul were not Eternal (I despise that worldly term, immortal) how is it that the unrepentant sinner can suffer Eternal Death, the Second Death? Iḿ sorry sir but you need to study more.

Taylor,

Careful consideration of pagan beliefs as exhibited by those first century apostates (immortal soul) will lead you deeper into Yahweh’s truth.

The warning concerning the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes appears to be lost on you, for now. I can only encourage you to study these vanquishes yourself – the irony it appears you have been vanquished by their teachings...some 2000 years later.

I appreciate your encouragement to study but these energies would be better utilised by yourself in this area. And if you need assistance in unlocking the Platonic beliefs.

Just ask.

Insight
 

Insight

New Member
Aug 7, 2011
1,259
5
0
Rev 2:13

When Antipas was slain history records the Balaamites and Nicolaitanes flourished, this saw the development of the Papacy from A.D.312 to 606.

Wiki Quote Below:

Nico means "conquer" in Greek, and laitan refers to lay people, or laity; hence, the word may be taken to mean "lay conquerors" or "conquerors of the lay people". However, "Nicolaitan" (Greek: Νικολαϊτῶν; Νικολαΐτης) is the name ostensibly given to followers of the heretic Nicolas (Greek: Νικόλαος)—the name itself meaning "victorious over people," or "victory of the people," which he would have been given at birth.

Agreed as history has revealed.

Taylor, these groups conquered Christians with a corrupt Christian message! And yes, it involved the teaching of the immortality of the soul as one of its core messages.

As you would know the Balaam worship owes its origins right back into early OT history where gods (plural) were the central focus of idolaters such as Cain, Enoch, Nimrod, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semiramis etc. Out of this came Platonic Philosophy which led to early church persecution.

The idea of gods, souls, spirits etc are all found in the teachings of Nimrod (sun god).

Rev 2:13 Refers to a time of intense persecution for early believers, during which Antipas remained constant to the Truth. The word "martyr" is from martus, elsewhere rendered witness, indicates one who bears witness by his death. Antipas is styled "my faithful witness," and is so identified with him, or them, who held fast the name and denied not the faith of Christ in the face of persecution, whether in Pergamos or elsewhere. The name is typical of a class at that time, and signifies against all Nicolaitanes, Balaamites, children of Jezebel, false apostles, and spurious Jews, who, as Justin says, "are called Christians, but are atheists and impious heretics, because that in all things they teach what is blasphemous, ungodly and unsound."

So where does this leave us Taylor, 2000 odd years later?

Is your Gospel a pure unadulterated message, untouched by all the philosophies of men?

We shall see.

Insight
 

Insight

New Member
Aug 7, 2011
1,259
5
0
A side note on this subject of the Nicolaitanes. In Rev 2:7 Rev 2:7YLT Rev 2:7KJV where is reads "To him that overcometh (conquers)" - The Greek word nikao signifies to conquer, and is closely related to nikos, as per the title of the Nicolaitanes, Conquerors of the people.

To conquer in the terms of the phrase above (used positively) is to gain the victory over the forces of darkness that can destroy the spiritual man/woman. It is an exhortation to triumph over personal besetting sins (Heb 12:1); over the world and its temptations; over prevailing error; over the ills and trials of life which can crush us. The life in Christ is a constant warfare (See Acts 14:22), in which faith is needed for the victory (See 1 John 5:4). There was a lack of "first love" in the church in Ephesus, and despite its insistence for doctrinal purity, and its increasing, exhausting abour, victory would be to those only who re-discovered their first love for Christ, and manifested it in action.

To be seduced by the Nicolaitanes is to lose ones reward to eat freely of the tree of life (The Word) which is offered to those who overcome.

Insight
 

th1b.taylor

Active Member
Dec 4, 2010
277
22
28
79
SE Texas
A side note on this subject of the Nicolaitanes. In Rev 2:7 Rev 2:7YLT Rev 2:7KJV where is reads "To him that overcometh (conquers)" - The Greek word nikao signifies to conquer, and is closely related to nikos, as per the title of the Nicolaitanes, Conquerors of the people.

To conquer in the terms of the phrase above (used positively) is to gain the victory over the forces of darkness that can destroy the spiritual man/woman. It is an exhortation to triumph over personal besetting sins (Heb 12:1); over the world and its temptations; over prevailing error; over the ills and trials of life which can crush us. The life in Christ is a constant warfare (See Acts 14:22), in which faith is needed for the victory (See 1 John 5:4). There was a lack of "first love" in the church in Ephesus, and despite its insistence for doctrinal purity, and its increasing, exhausting abour, victory would be to those only who re-discovered their first love for Christ, and manifested it in action.

To be seduced by the Nicolaitanes is to lose ones reward to eat freely of the tree of life (The Word) which is offered to those who overcome.

Insight
MY, my, you do contribute a lot of trash, don you and yet you avoid what I called your hand on about the soul being eternal and Bible based proof texts. Of course, any credibility you had hoped for has been flushed!
 

Insight

New Member
Aug 7, 2011
1,259
5
0
That discussion is taking place elsewhere in the forum and your absence there has been duly noted.

back2topic.gif
your contribution / exposition here has been less than impressive.

Thankfully there is time for you to redeem yourself.

Insight
 

Insight

New Member
Aug 7, 2011
1,259
5
0
18 And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass; 19 I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first. 20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. 21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.

A Christian, a name to commonly used today, or a church can do multitudes of good works and all of it amount to nothing if it is performed under the wrong circumstances. In the passage above we find that a woman named Jezebel has proclaimed herself a Prophetess is teaching in the church and leading them into fornication. We need be very careful with this term here. It is a practical requirement that one come to an understanding of the Hebrew Bible (the Old Testament of our modern day Bibles) before the Revelation of Jesus, as given to John can ever begin to be understood.

Have you considered who this Jezebel represents in the Revelation?

Insight