Revelation 22:13 What does it mean?
- Thread starter Siddhi Koli
- Start date
-
- Tags
- alpha and omega christ jesus
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
@Siddhi Koli Wonderful verse; and so it's excellent to trust the One Who is eternal, and Who 'through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God' (Hebrews 9.14) at the Cross.
It means what is says, that there is nothing before Jesus and that there is nothing after Jesus.
As Jesus is the eternal creator it is impossible for anything to exist before or after him, so it is also an indication of his importance, there is nothing more important or has more status than Jesus.
Robert Gwin
Well-Known Member
That is an extremely good question maam, evidence seems to indicate that a number of persons are represented as speaking in this chapter of Revelation; verses 8 and 9 show that the angel spoke to John, verse 16 obviously applies to Jesus, the first part of verse 17 is credited to “the spirit and the bride,” and the one speaking in the latter part of verse 20 is manifestly John himself. “The Alpha and the Omega” of verses 12-15, therefore, may properly be identified as the same one who bears the title in the other two occurrences: Jehovah God. The expression, “Look! I am coming quickly,” in verse 12, does not require that these aforementioned verses apply to Jesus, inasmuch as God also speaks of himself as “coming” to execute judgment. (Compare Isa 26:21.) Malachi 3:1-6 speaks of a joint coming for judgment on the part of Jehovah and his “messenger of the covenant.”
The title “the Alpha and the Omega” carries the same thought as “the first and the last” and “the beginning and the end” when these terms are used with reference to Jehovah. Before him there was no Almighty God, and there will be none after him. He will bring to a successful conclusion the issue over Godship, forever vindicated as the one and only Almighty God.—Compare Isa 44:6.
Hidden In Him
Well-Known Member
Greetings, Robert.
I generally stay out of these discussions, but since Siddhi is new in the faith and vulnerable, I should give the opposing view on this for clarity's sake. As Windmillcharge pointed out, the context strongly suggests all three phrases (Alpha and Omega, Beginning and the End, the First and the Last) are references to the Lord Jesus Christ.
He starts in verse 6 by stating, "the Lord God of the holy prophets sent His angel to show His servants the things which must shortly take place." Then in v.16, Jesus identifies Himself as being the One who He was referring to as the Lord God. Jehovahs Witnesses could certainly argue that it is possible for v.6 to refer to the Father and v.16 to refer to the Son, but this is what would be called in scholarship an unnatural reading. The context makes it obvious that both verses were intended to be interpreted as referring to the exact same Person.
God bless,
Hidden
6 Then He said to me, “These words are faithful and true. And the Lord God of the holy prophets sent His angel to show His servants the things which must shortly take place. 7 Behold, I am coming quickly! Blessed is he who keeps the words of the prophecy of this book.” 8 Now I, John, saw and heard these things. And when I heard and saw, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel who showed me these things. 9 Then he said to me, “See that you do not do that. For I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren the prophets, and of those who keep the words of this book. Worship God.” 10 And He said to me, “Do not seal the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is at hand. 11 He who is unjust, let him be unjust still; he who is filthy, let him be filthy still; he who is righteous, let him be righteous still; he who is holy, let him be holy still. 12 And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last. 14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie. 16 I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star. 17 And the Spirit and the bride say, 'Come!' And let him who hears say, 'Come!' And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely. 18 For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; 19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. 20 He who testifies to these things says, “Surely I am coming quickly.”
tigger 2
Well-Known Member
Is Jesus ‘Alpha and Omega’ in Rev. 22?
Rev. 22:8-16. John is identified as the speaker in 22:8. The angel speaks in 9). The angel apparently continues speaking in (10). The angel may be still speaking in 11) --- or it could be John or even someone else (as implied in verse 10 in the NAB,1970 ed.).
Now is the angel still speaking in 12) or is it God, or is it Jesus, or even John? There is simply no way of telling who the speaker is from any of the early Bible manuscripts. It’s entirely a matter of translator’s choice. Some translators have decided it is the angel who continues to speak, and they punctuate it accordingly. So the JB, and NJB use quotation marks to show that these are all words spoken by the angel.
However, the RSV, NRSV, NASB, NEB, REB, NKJV, NAB (1991 ed.), ESV, ISV, NLT, 21st Century King James Version, Third Millenium Bible, and TEV show by their use of quotation marks that someone else is now speaking in verse 12. Most Bibles indicate that the person who spoke verse 12 (whether God, angel, Jesus, or John) also spoke verse 13 (“I am Alpha and Omega”).
Now the big question is: Is it clear that the speaker(s) of verses 12 and 13 continues to speak? Some Bibles indicate this. But other respected trinitarian translations do not!
The RSV, NRSV, NASB, NEB, REB, NKJV, NAB (1991 ed.), ESV, ISV, NLT, 21st Century King James Version, Third Millennium Bible, and TEV show (by quotation marks and indenting) that Rev. 22:14 and 15 are not the words of the speaker of verses 12 and 13 but are John’s words.
(The Jerusalem Bible and the NJB show us that the angel spoke all the words from verse 10 through verse 15.) Then they show Jesus as a new speaker beginning to speak in verse 16.
So, if you insist that the person speaking just before verse 16 is the same person who is speaking in verse 16, then, according to the trinitarian RSV, NRSV, NASB, NEB, REB, NKJV, NAB (1991 ed.), ESV, ISV, NLT, 21st Century King James Version, Third Millennium Bible, and TEV, you are saying John is Jesus!!! (According to the JB and NJB you would be insisting that the angel is Jesus!)
And, just as the use of “I, John” indicated a new speaker in Revelation, so does the only other such usage in that same book. Yes, Rev. 22:16 - “I, Jesus” also introduces a new speaker. This means, of course, that the previous statement (“I am the Alpha and Omega”) was made by someone else!
Even the KJV translators have shown by their use of the word “his” in verse 14 that they didn’t mean that Jesus was the same speaker as the Alpha and Omega. The speaker of verse 13 is Almighty God. The comment in verse 14 of these Bibles (as literally translated from the Received Text) explains the importance of doing “his Commandments” (not “my Commandments”)! Therefore the speaker of verse 14 is obviously not God as clearly stated by those Bibles which were translated from the Received Text, e.g., KJV; NKJV; KJIIV; MKJV; Young’s Literal Translation; Webster Bible (by Noah Webster); and Revised Webster Bible. Lamsa’s translation (Holy Bible From the Ancient Eastern Text) also uses “him.“
So we can easily see that there is no reason to say Jesus spoke the words recorded at Rev. 22:13 (or the above-named trinitarian Bibles would surely have so translated it!) and, in fact, the context really identifies the speaker as being the same person who spoke at Rev. 1:8, God Almighty, Jehovah, the Father.
The only other use of the title “Alpha and Omega” confirms this understanding.
“And He who sits on the throne said, ‘Behold, I am making all things new.’ .... And He said to me, ‘It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. .... He who overcomes shall inherit these things, and I will be his God and he will be My son.’” - Rev. 21:5-7, NASB.
So Rev. 21:6, 7 confirms the understanding that the Alpha and Omega is the Father, not Jesus.
In short, there is no reason, other than a desire to support the trinity tradition, to believe that Jesus is being called “Alpha and Omega” in Rev. 22. And there is good evidence to believe that it is his Father only who uses this title for himself.
Rev. 22:8-16. John is identified as the speaker in 22:8. The angel speaks in 9). The angel apparently continues speaking in (10). The angel may be still speaking in 11) --- or it could be John or even someone else (as implied in verse 10 in the NAB,1970 ed.).
Now is the angel still speaking in 12) or is it God, or is it Jesus, or even John? There is simply no way of telling who the speaker is from any of the early Bible manuscripts. It’s entirely a matter of translator’s choice. Some translators have decided it is the angel who continues to speak, and they punctuate it accordingly. So the JB, and NJB use quotation marks to show that these are all words spoken by the angel.
However, the RSV, NRSV, NASB, NEB, REB, NKJV, NAB (1991 ed.), ESV, ISV, NLT, 21st Century King James Version, Third Millenium Bible, and TEV show by their use of quotation marks that someone else is now speaking in verse 12. Most Bibles indicate that the person who spoke verse 12 (whether God, angel, Jesus, or John) also spoke verse 13 (“I am Alpha and Omega”).
Now the big question is: Is it clear that the speaker(s) of verses 12 and 13 continues to speak? Some Bibles indicate this. But other respected trinitarian translations do not!
The RSV, NRSV, NASB, NEB, REB, NKJV, NAB (1991 ed.), ESV, ISV, NLT, 21st Century King James Version, Third Millennium Bible, and TEV show (by quotation marks and indenting) that Rev. 22:14 and 15 are not the words of the speaker of verses 12 and 13 but are John’s words.
(The Jerusalem Bible and the NJB show us that the angel spoke all the words from verse 10 through verse 15.) Then they show Jesus as a new speaker beginning to speak in verse 16.
So, if you insist that the person speaking just before verse 16 is the same person who is speaking in verse 16, then, according to the trinitarian RSV, NRSV, NASB, NEB, REB, NKJV, NAB (1991 ed.), ESV, ISV, NLT, 21st Century King James Version, Third Millennium Bible, and TEV, you are saying John is Jesus!!! (According to the JB and NJB you would be insisting that the angel is Jesus!)
And, just as the use of “I, John” indicated a new speaker in Revelation, so does the only other such usage in that same book. Yes, Rev. 22:16 - “I, Jesus” also introduces a new speaker. This means, of course, that the previous statement (“I am the Alpha and Omega”) was made by someone else!
Even the KJV translators have shown by their use of the word “his” in verse 14 that they didn’t mean that Jesus was the same speaker as the Alpha and Omega. The speaker of verse 13 is Almighty God. The comment in verse 14 of these Bibles (as literally translated from the Received Text) explains the importance of doing “his Commandments” (not “my Commandments”)! Therefore the speaker of verse 14 is obviously not God as clearly stated by those Bibles which were translated from the Received Text, e.g., KJV; NKJV; KJIIV; MKJV; Young’s Literal Translation; Webster Bible (by Noah Webster); and Revised Webster Bible. Lamsa’s translation (Holy Bible From the Ancient Eastern Text) also uses “him.“
So we can easily see that there is no reason to say Jesus spoke the words recorded at Rev. 22:13 (or the above-named trinitarian Bibles would surely have so translated it!) and, in fact, the context really identifies the speaker as being the same person who spoke at Rev. 1:8, God Almighty, Jehovah, the Father.
The only other use of the title “Alpha and Omega” confirms this understanding.
“And He who sits on the throne said, ‘Behold, I am making all things new.’ .... And He said to me, ‘It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. .... He who overcomes shall inherit these things, and I will be his God and he will be My son.’” - Rev. 21:5-7, NASB.
So Rev. 21:6, 7 confirms the understanding that the Alpha and Omega is the Father, not Jesus.
In short, there is no reason, other than a desire to support the trinity tradition, to believe that Jesus is being called “Alpha and Omega” in Rev. 22. And there is good evidence to believe that it is his Father only who uses this title for himself.
Last edited:
Hidden In Him
Well-Known Member
Is Jesus ‘Alpha and Omega’ in Rev. 22?
Rev. 22:8-16. John is identified as the speaker in 22:8. The angel speaks in9). The angel apparently continues speaking in (10). The angel may be still speaking in
Now is the angel still speaking in
That's a lot of smilies, Tigger. I've never seen you so happy.
Hidden In Him
Well-Known Member
On a more serious note, given that we agree the above is true, does not what I stated in Post #5 lend more credence to the Trinitarian position? Seems to me that the JW/ non-Trinitarian interpretation is more forced, and a much less natural reading of the passage.
Hidden In Him
Well-Known Member
So you understand, Siddhi, this community currently has a large influx of Non-Trinitarians and Jehovahs Witnesses. I subscribe to the doctrines of the early church, so I disagree with them on passages like this, but this is the kind of question that will generate a lot of debate around here these days.
God bless, and thought you should know.
- H
tigger 2
Well-Known Member
............................
It is easy to check out my findings. Just go to the sources I cited and look. It may be helpful for some to look up how quotation marks (beginning and ending) work. These are simply the results of my research. I don't believe the "JW/ non-Trinitarian interpretation" includes the citations I have posted above.
Hidden In Him
Well-Known Member
They might not, so my apologies if they don't. But it is clearly a non-Trinitarian interpretation, nonetheless.
About your sources, I wasn't bringing any of that into question. Like I said, I do acknowledge that given the lack of punctuation and the way the text is packaged, arguments could be made for several different positions. I just think the one I present is the most plausible, given the internal context.
God bless, and I appreciate the courteous manner in which you discuss things. It's refreshing.
- H
Last edited:
GRACE ambassador
Well-Known Member
Precious friend, A Very Warm Welcome to the Board.
This Will Scripturally Confirm The "WHO" of Rev 22:13:
Revelation 1:
8 "I AM Alpha and Omega, The Beginning and The Ending,
Saith The LORD, Which Is, and Which Was, and Which Is to
come, The Almighty.
9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in
tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ,
was in the isle that is called Patmos, for The Word of God,
and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.
10 I was in The Spirit on The LORD's day, and
heard behind me A Great Voice, as of a trumpet,
11 Saying, I AM Alpha and Omega, The First and The Last...
13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like
Unto The Son of man, clothed with a garment down to
the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.
17 And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead.
And He Laid His Right Hand Upon me, Saying unto
me, Fear not; I AM The First and The Last:
18 [The LORD JESUS CHRIST]
I AM He That liveth, and Was DEAD; and, behold, I AM Alive
for evermore, Amen; and Have the keys of hell and of death."
Scripturally Confirmed By:
500 Plain And Clear Passages The LORD JESUS CHRIST Is Almighty God!
Please Be Very RICHLY Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, And Edified In
The LORD JESUS CHRIST, And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided!
GRACE And Peace...
Last edited:
tigger 2
Well-Known Member
Is. 44:6 in the American Standard Version (ASV) says, "Thus saith Jehovah [the LORD - KJV], the King of Israel, and his Redeemer, Jehovah of hosts...." The "proof" here, according to a few trinitarians, is that there are two `different' Jehovahs [LORDs] mentioned! And one is the redeemer of the other!
The trick here is that these trinitarians pretend the pronoun "his" refers to Jehovah when it actually refers to Israel. The following trinitarian Bibles, however, actually translate it correctly (e.g., "Thus says the LORD, Israel's King and redeemer, the LORD of hosts" - NAB): NIV, JB, LB, GNB, REB, NJB, and Moffatt. And the trinitarian Bibles which use capitalized pronouns for God ("Me, My, He, His," etc.) also show, by their lack of capitalization, that "his" refers to Israel in this scripture: "Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts" - NASB (see also MLB, Beck, and Young translations).
The trick here is that these trinitarians pretend the pronoun "his" refers to Jehovah when it actually refers to Israel. The following trinitarian Bibles, however, actually translate it correctly (e.g., "Thus says the LORD, Israel's King and redeemer, the LORD of hosts" - NAB): NIV, JB, LB, GNB, REB, NJB, and Moffatt. And the trinitarian Bibles which use capitalized pronouns for God ("Me, My, He, His," etc.) also show, by their lack of capitalization, that "his" refers to Israel in this scripture: "Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts" - NASB (see also MLB, Beck, and Young translations).
Last edited:
Hidden In Him
Well-Known Member
If you mean the phrase "I am the King of Israel," yes. I'm not sure Jehovah identifies Himself as such anywhere else in scripture, and there are other verses in that Chapter that point to the Lord Christ Jesus as well.
ScottA
Well-Known Member
- Feb 24, 2011
- 11,741
- 5,593
- 113
- Faith
- Christian
- Country
- United States
It means that all of time and history exists within Christ. He was before the foundation of the world, revealed in the midst, brought salvation to men and glory to God.
Robert Gwin
Well-Known Member
Most of the Bible is difficult for most to understand, Revelation is virtually impossible, but one thing is for certain, if Jesus is God we have no hope because he is a liar which means he is not sinless. No sir, I believe Jehovah is God just as Jesus taught. Jn 3:16; Mat 4:10
Philip James
Well-Known Member
Well said.
This is a picture of my parish.. The Alpha and Omega on either side of the crucifix..
Pax et Bonum
Hidden In Him
Well-Known Member
We're just going to have to disagree then, Robert.
1. I don't find Revelation hard to understand at all, and
2. I don't agree with the Jehovahs Witness position on the Trinity.
That particular verse backs up a binity more than a trinity though…
Good verse!
Haven’t seen you around. Glad to see you again.
Similar threads
