Revelation Chapter 12, the Real Revelation

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101G

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Now that these misleading dates of the rapture, and end of the world have come and gone. Let’s get the scriptures correct. Revelation Chapter 12 have been misused, misunderstood, and flat out abused. let's see if we can get it right by the POWER of God’s Wisdom.

#1. I believe that Revelation chapter 12 is referring to the birth of Christ and his church. Matthew chapter 2 hold this information, I believe. by keeping one hand on Matthews chapter 2, we can understand chapter 12 in Revelation. Not saying that anyone’s beliefs are right or wrong, but can be discussed.
 
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101G

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Symbolic Meaning to understand chapter 12

Woman = represent a Church, (the remnant of Israel, the church in the wilderness)
Dragon = a person, be it representative of a political, or religious power. (king Herod, here)
Red in this chapter = blood
Stars = messenger, (human, or angelic).
Sun = gospel, or the word of God.
Moon = Mosaic Law
 

FHII

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Symbolic Meaning to understand chapter 12

Woman = represent a Church, (the remnant of Israel, the church in the wilderness)
Dragon = a person, be it representative of a political, or religious power. (king Herod, here)
Red in this chapter = blood
Stars = messenger, (human, or angelic).
Sun = gospel, or the word of God.
Moon = Mosaic Law
Well, I don't disagree with all you say, but it seems pretty clear that the chapter identifies the dragon as Satan.
 

101G

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Verse 12:1 "And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars”. take note, all vision given in heaven, do not necessarily means that the event took place in heaven, please understand that. this woman represent the nation, Israel, the southern tribe. this women represent a church, the remnant. But is Israel, the nation a Church?. Let the Scriptures speak for themselves. Acts 7:37 "This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear. 38 This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us". there she is, "the church in the wilderness". so Israel was a church, and by representation of this woman is found in the virgin Mary.The next key word here is, "wonder", meaning

a sign was seen in heaven, but is the action/wonder taking place on earth?, that wonder was a woman, (that gave birth to a child without a man), in those days it was a wonder. this woman was clothed with the sun= the protection, and blessing of God, because of her righteousness. God is light, and he is her protector by his word, for he had made a promise, and his word, he keep. being clothed in his word, she have his righteousness, the white garment. Israel had been washed, and baptized in the red sea. The red sea means something, washed in the blood, (red). so Israel the church was washed in blood, (RED SEA), to have white robes. this baptism is call a corporate baptism. Moon at her feet = the Mosaic Law, a lesser light. Israel was walking by a dim light, the law. it was a lamp unto her feet. Supporting Scriptures, Prov 6:23 "For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; and reproofs of instruction are the way of life", now, Psalms 119:105 "Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path”. there it is, “the law was a lamp, (light) at her feet. just as the Sun is a greater light at her her head compared to the moon, a lesser light at her feet. so is the word of God, (the Gospel) is superior to the Law. and upon her head a crown of twelve stars= the place of honor these 12 stars represent the 12 tribes. for each tribe had a head, or principle person to lead. Sun, the Glory to come, shine in darkness which is her destiny, meaning taking the gospel to all the world, when the 12 was scrattered, and apostles was sent to them. Supporting scriptures. Matthew 24:14 " And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come". the sun is on her head, as Jesus is the head of the Church, and the sun of righteousness, Malachi 4:2, the reference to The Spiritual Church. a crown of twelve stars. Gen 49:28 “All these are the twelve tribes of Israel: and this is it that their father spake unto them, and blessed them; every one according to his blessing he blessed them”. one can read all the blessing there. but no mistake the 12 stars are the 12 tribes.
 

FHII

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Yes, the Satan behind the scene, the evil in men.
Well, that dragon was cast out of heaven. I don't think it was Harod cast out of heaven anymore than I believe it was Harod who tempted Jesus 3 times.

I will say that Satan works theough men and women. But I don't think Rev 12 is pointing to Harod as the dragon. I thibk the dragon in Rev 12 is Satan.
 

Dcopymope

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Well, that dragon was cast out of heaven. I don't think it was Harod cast out of heaven anymore than I believe it was Harod who tempted Jesus 3 times.

I will say that Satan works theough men and women. But I don't think Rev 12 is pointing to Harod as the dragon. I thibk the dragon in Rev 12 is Satan.

Just another shining example of how people will put their own spin on scripture regardless of how straight forward, how plain something is stated in the text. Somehow the dragon is symbolic of some guy named King Harod. Somehow the Locusts are attack helicopters, and on and on it goes with the weirdness. :confused:
 
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101G

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Just another shining example of how people will put their own spin on scripture regardless of how straight forward, how plain something is stated in the text. Somehow the dragon is symbolic of some guy named King Harod. Somehow the Locusts are attack helicopters, and on and on it goes with the weirdness. :confused:
I'll address this later. .... (smile).
 

FHII

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Just another shining example of how people will put their own spin on scripture regardless of how straight forward, how plain something is stated in the text. Somehow the dragon is symbolic of some guy named King Harod. Somehow the Locusts are attack helicopters, and on and on it goes with the weirdness. :confused:
There is a whole bunch of characters in Rev 12. Some of them are symbolic and I don't mind hearing ideas of who they are backed with reason and scripture...

But some of those characters are Satam, Michael and Jesus. I mean... The chapter plainly says who they are.
 
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Dcopymope

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There is a whole bunch of characters in Rev 12. Some of them are symbolic and I don't mind hearing ideas of who they are backed with reason and scripture...

But some of those characters are Satam, Michael and Jesus. I mean... The chapter plainly says who they are.

uh huh, "backed with reason and scripture".....I somehow doubt this, but m'kay.
 

101G

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Verse 2 “And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered”.
if this is the today's church, not a replacement of Israel, but the New Israel in Christ. many have said and believe, she is an adulteress church, and that is not going to flying, because the Lord Jesus is coming for a church without a spot or wrinkle. now having a baby out of wedlock is a spot and a wrinkle all rolled into one. but, this woman represents the virgin Mary, who actually gave birth, espouse, but with child by the Holy Spirit. so this is Spiritual in birth. that's the reason why in verse one this was a great wonder. to me this woman is the nation Israel, (the church in the wilderness). let's see. being the Representative as the virgin who gave birth to a male child without the help of a natural man. this was of God. God brought forth this male child. Scripture Matt 2:6 "And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel".
But the question remains, just who really is this woman. to identify the woman, (this church), lets start where here baby started. scripture, Hebrews 7:14 " For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood”. ok, now we have evidence to follow. he sprang out of Judah. from verse 1, we know that she is a church, Acts 7:38 "This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us". next we must find out who was in the wilderness. it was one nation until she split into two kingdoms. the northern 10 tribes, and the two southern tribes of Judah, and Benjamin. so which one is the woman?.
Jeremiah 3:6 " The LORD said also unto me in the days of Josiah the king, Hast thou seen that which backsliding Israel hath done? she is gone up upon every high mountain and under every green tree, and there hath played the harlot. 7 And I said after she had done all these things, Turn thou unto me. But she returned not. And her treacherous sister Judah saw it. 8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also”. we can see clearly that God not only put Israel, (the 10 northern tribes), away, but divorce her. but what about Israel sister Judah?. Isaiah 50:1 " Thus saith the LORD, Where is the bill of your mother's divorcement, whom I have put away? or which of my creditors is it to whom I have sold you? Behold, for your iniquities have ye sold yourselves, and for your transgressions is your mother put away”. here we see God did not divorce Judah, only put her away. and if a man put away his wife and not divorce her he can take her back.

so in conclusion the woman here is Judah, where Mary come from, and our Lord sprang out of. as the apostle Paul said, “For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda”, Hebrews 7:14.
 
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101G

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Verse 3 “And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his head”.
Now this is interesting, notice the words “great”, and “dragon”, "appeared", having seven heads. in the bible seven means complete, or fulfilled, or absolute, or complete control. it also means coming to an end. This great dragon is represented by King Herod “the great”; himself, he is called Herod the “GREAT”. remember this is symbolic. the devil who is a spirit get others to do his dirty work, he just work behind the scenes. red here means blood, for this king had much blood on his hands. He even killed members of his own family, who he though that might try to overthrow him and take his crown. But the most noted bloos was of the infants he killed while trying to kill the baby Jesus. supporting scriptures, Matt 2:16 "Then Herod, when he saw that he was mocked of the wise men, was exceeding wroth, and sent forth, and slew all the children that were in Bethlehem, and in all the coasts thereof, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had diligently enquired of the wise men”. The ten horns is the power of the Roman Empire, which he, king Herod, ruled by. King Herod power was supported by that Governing power, the Roman Empire. so clearly he is a bloody (red) dragon. as said, keep one hand on chapter 12 of revelation, and the other on Matthews chapter 2. so verse 3 introduce the dragon, king Herod
 

101G

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Verse 4. And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born”.
The main key here is the word, “tail”, and “of “, as in “of” heaven, and not in heaven, about the stars. stars here aare symbolic. stars do not necessary , or automatically means angels. in this verse it means men. those on earth that had heavenly information, or a message, that’s the symbolization used here of , of, of, heavenly stars. when reading about the birth of Jesus, revelation chapter 12 correspond to it, to a tee. Matthews chapter 2 tells how Herod the king (the dragon) tried to kill the baby Jesus. it say that the dragon drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and cast them to earth, this to me is not a persuasion to follow the dragon, but an attempt by the dragon to use someone to gain heavenly knowledge. it said that his tail “DREW” the THIRD part of the stars of heaven. drew here, is another word to gather together. so who did king Herod drew, or gathered together?. it's the stars or messengers that is on earth, with the heavenly knowledge of where the babe is to be born at. (I'll show this by scripture). Herod the king called/drew, or gathered together unto him his aids, to find out about the new born
King, that the wise men came to worship. he wanted to know where the child was born at, so that he may kill the babe, (he stood ready to kill). as said, the word "drew", past tense, mean to gather, draw together. king Herod inquired of the men of God, (Heavenly messengers, or Godly men), as to where the babe was born at. lets pick up the account in the scriptures. Matt 2:4 "And when he had gathered all the chief priests,(1 part), and scribes, (2 part), of the people together, (there it is, "of" the people, not angels in heaven). he demanded of them where Christ should be born". these men was of God, who should know the things of God, and they did. scripture, Matt 2:5 "And they said unto him, In Bethlehem of Judaea: for thus it is written by the prophet, 6 And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel". here it is confirm that the babe came out of Judah. Now lets get the third part, the wise men. Matthews 2:7 “ Then Herod, when he had privily called the wise men, enquired of them diligently what time the star appeared”. There is the third part, the wise men. the scriptures said that the dragon, drew a third part, “of”, the stars, “of”, heaven. There you have it, a third part of the STARS are the wise men. lets recap, Matthews 2:4, 1/3 chief priests, 2/3 scribes, and our 3/3 the wise men. bingo, Verse 4. "And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven"
see how the wisdom of God work to bring out the correct information. only Lucifer fell, scripture, Isaiah 14:12 " How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!Isaiah 13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. 15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit”.
Not one holy angels in heaven fell, but Lucifer only. let God word prove without a doubt that these stars here in chapter 12 are men and not angels in heavens. Jude1:12 "These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots; Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, (there they are, Stars), to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever".

who are these spots, the clouds without water, who fruits withereth, raging waves of the sea, these wandering “stars”. they are men not holy angels in heaven. a reading of the whole chapter will revealed who they are. But lets see them in a few verses. Jude verse 4 "For there are certain “men” crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ”. these are men, and not angels. notice the identities in verse 13, " wandering stars". so as we know now, backed up with scripture that these stars are men, ..... on earth, and not angels in heaven.
“and the dragon stood before the woman ready to devoue”. Matthews 2:8 “ And he sent them to Bethlehem, and said, Go and search diligently for the young child; and when ye have found him, bring me word again, that I may come and worship him also”. The word devour is to kill. scripture: Matt 2:16 "Then Herod, when he saw that he was mocked of the wise men, was exceeding wroth, and sent forth, and slew all the children that were in Bethlehem, and in all the coasts thereof, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had diligently inquired of the wise men". So we see the real dragon being represented or is symbolic in the person of king Herod. And the woman, symbolic of the church in the wilderness, (Judah). And the child born is the male child the Lord Jesus, the HEAD of the church, in the wilderness, the chief cornerstone. the 3rd of stars was 1 the chief priest, 2 scribes, and 3 the wise men, the THREE PARTS. how simple.
 

FHII

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Why does 7 represent represent complete? And when was Harod called "great"? Jesus was called greater than Solomon and Jonah. Mechesidek was called great. Diana was even called great. I don't remember the Bible calling Harod "great".
 

101G

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Why does 7 represent represent complete? And when was Harod called "great"? Jesus was called greater than Solomon and Jonah. Mechesidek was called great. Diana was even called great. I don't remember the Bible calling Harod "great".
thanks for your reply. first 7 is symbolic of completeness. wholeness. and when was Herod CALLED Great. you got is "CALLED". in his day he was CALLED that, I said, "This great dragon is represented by King Herod “the great”; himself, he is called Herod the “GREAT”. remember this is symbolic.

be blessed.
 

101G

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Verse 5 "And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
A male Child,? yes a son. Isaiah 9:6 "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace”. what she brought forth was the body (son of God) flesh, for the Lord Jesus who is Spirit. And this child is to rule, Isaiah 9:6 "the government shall be upon his shoulder". scripture, Matthew 2:5 & 6 "And they said unto him, In Bethlehem of Judaea: for thus it is written by the prophet,Matthew 2:6 "And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel”. this was foretold by Micah 5:2 "But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting”. the word “ruler” here is the hebrew word, H4910 מָשַׁל mashal (maw-shal') v.
to rule. Notice how the KJV can translate this word, KJV: (have, make to have) dominion, governor, X indeed, reign, (bear, cause to, have) rule(-ing, -r), have power. so scriptures confirm the Lord Jesus.

"and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne". the Key word here is "child", and note the Greek word for a male child (son which is, G5207, huios), in reference to character. caught up here means "come in POWER, of the Spirit". and not as some believe, he was rapture to heaven. Lets examine this word, G726 ἁρπάζω harpazo (har-pad'-zo) v.
1. to seize
from a derivative of G138
KJV: catch (away, up), pluck, pull, take (by force)

the derivative, G138 αἱρέομαι haireomai (hai-reh'-om-ai) (Some of the forms are borrowed from a cognate hellomai hel'-lom-ai; which is otherwise obsolete) v.
1. to take for oneself, i.e. to prefer
[probably akin to G142]
KJV: choose

Matthew 11:12 "And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take (G726 ἁρπάζω harpazo) it by force. here, harpazo is not a taking away into heaven, no, but the coming in power, which is a demonstration of the Spirit. read Gill commentary on the verse.

so all those who believe that the Lord Jesus as a child went to heaven, (rapture), sorry, nip, or naw. if one want to understand our Lord so-called missing teen years, just read Isaiah 50:4.
 
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Phoneman777

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Now that these misleading dates of the rapture, and end of the world have come and gone. Let’s get the scriptures correct. Revelation Chapter 12 have been misused, misunderstood, and flat out abused. let's see if we can get it right by the POWER of God’s Wisdom.

#1. I believe that Revelation chapter 12 is referring to the birth of Christ and his church. Matthew chapter 2 hold this information, I believe. by keeping one hand on Matthews chapter 2, we can understand chapter 12 in Revelation. Not saying that anyone’s beliefs are right or wrong, but can be discussed.
101G, of course Revelation 12 has to do with the birth of Christ and I'm glad you see that, considering that almost the entire Christian world has been duped into believing the Jesuit idea that only the first 3 chapters of Revelation have been fulfilled. The chapter covers:
  • the appearance of the woman (God's people)
  • clothed with the Sun (Glory of the Gospel of Christ)
  • the moon under her feet (the reflected Glory of the Gospel of Christ as foreshadowed by the OT sanctuary services and rituals)
  • crown of 12 stars (representing the 12 tribes of OT and 12 apostles of NT)
  • the great red dragon (Satan)
  • having seven heads and ten horns and ten crowns (his earthly agents though which he persecutes the woman)
  • which drew the third part of the stars of heaven (the rebellious third of heavenly inhabitants which followed Satan)
  • the man child which came forth from the woman (Jesus which came forth the OT holy lineage)
  • dragon stood before the woman to devour (Satan working through his human agent Herod in an attempt to destroy Jesus)
  • caught up to God and to His throne (Jesus ascension after His resurrection)
  • woman flees into wilderness for 1,260 days (God's people flee into the obscure places of the valleys, mountains, hills, caves, where God preserves them for 1,260 years from 538 AD to 1798 AD to escape the most severe persecution the devil has ever heaped upon His people through his Antichrist system in Rome - the Papacy, which began to reign in 538 AD and was overthrown in 1798 AD. Today, this "deadly wound" has been healed and "all the world wondered after the beast" is seen through more and more people paying homage, respect, and even defending the most demonic system to ever appear on the stage of history.
  • dragon angry with woman - makes war with the remnant of her seed which keep the commandments of God/have the testimony of Jesus Christ (after 1798 AD, God's people emerged once again in prominence as His "remnant church" to announce the soon return of Jesus and to carry the last warning message to the world found in Revelation 14:6-12 KJV and at her heels, the devil making war with it. This church is identified as having a peculiar resemblance to the first century church, in purity of its Biblical teachings, purity of Christian character and dress, in steadfast obedience to His Ten Commandments, and in possession of the "testimony of Jesus" which "is the Spirit of Prophecy".
If only people would give up Jesuit ideas about only the first 3 chapters of Revelation having been fulfilled and if only people would seek to find God's end time remnant church which resembles as exactly Christ's first century church as does a remnant piece of cloth resembles a piece of cloth which first came off the bolt of cloth.
 
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101G

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@Phoneman777, in the name of the Lord Jesus, thanks for the response. yes, there are a lot of chapters that have already been fulfilled. but the book is not in chronological order of time. but in steps of events. and the events must be put in chronological order of time. the OT holds a many of the chronological order for each event in time. for example in the book of Daniel 12:1 "And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever". here in verse 2, a reference to the resurrection, before and after the 1,000 years. scripture, Revelation 20:5 "But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection". in Daniel 12 it says nothing of the 1,000 years between each resurrection, but the revelation gives us the missing information. and verse 1 the time of trouble or tribulation. also in verse 3, a reference to the 10 "WISE" virgins in Matthews chapter 25.
 
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DPMartin

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Symbolic Meaning to understand chapter 12

Woman = represent a Church, (the remnant of Israel, the church in the wilderness)
Dragon = a person, be it representative of a political, or religious power. (king Herod, here)
Red in this chapter = blood
Stars = messenger, (human, or angelic).
Sun = gospel, or the word of God.
Moon = Mosaic Law


I would have to agree that Herod is not your guy in this one, he may have been responsible for trying to kill Jesus in Bethlehem but he wasn't party to Jesus being caught up unto God, as in resurrected. actually it was roman authority that was directly responsible for hanging Jesus on the Cross. romans placed Him there and saw to it that He was dead.

also many times if my memory serves dragons in scripture represent powers that be in the world at the time they are described, or the time being described.
could be empires or alliances so on and so forth the five kings that allied to keep out the Israelites in Joshua's day is a good example. I wouldn't be surprised if there is some correlation between the alliances against the reestablishment of the Jewish nation such as the six day war for example, in one or more description of a dragon. note they are not always the same, plus one must take into consideration the time line and how that plays out in OT prophecies. OT prophecies are probably your best affirmation that you could be on the correct presumptions.
 
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101G

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I would have to agree that Herod is not your guy in this one, he may have been responsible for trying to kill Jesus in Bethlehem but he wasn't party to Jesus being caught up unto God, as in resurrected. actually it was roman authority that was directly responsible for hanging Jesus on the Cross. romans placed Him there and saw to it that He was dead.
first, thanks for the response, second, Revelation 12 have nothing to do with the Lord death. so your assessment there is rejected. the Romans crucified a man, not a child.
also many times if my memory serves dragons in scripture represent powers that be in the world at the time they are described, or the time being described.
king Herod was in power when the child was born. the rest of your expression is conjure, not having anything to do with chapter 12.
peace in Christ