Revelation Chapter 9 - The Destruction of Physical Jerusalem, the Temple, the Law - End of an age!

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APAK

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Chapter 9 The Siege and Destruction of Jerusalem
__________________________________________________________________________

Verses 1-11 – The Roman Army Siege of Jerusalem - April to September 70 AD
An army arises out of mortal death, symbolized as a swarm of locusts being released from the Abyss, the dark underworld of the dead. This resurrection motif as repeated throughout scripture is truly the rise of the Flavian Dynasty that revived the nearly ‘dead’ Roman Empire by putting an end to the civil war following Nero’s death.

The Roman Empire under the Flavian Caesar is also the beast whose wound had been healed in Revelation 13:3 besides the beast that rises out of the Abyss in Revelation 9:2-3, Revelation 11:7 (further describes the destruction of Jerusalem and the original anti-Christ figure and spirit) and Revelation 17:8.

The ascension of Apollyon and his locust army out of the Abyss is spoken of in Revelation 17:8 as the beast rising out of the Abyss: “The beast, which you saw, once was, now is not, and yet will come up out of the Abyss and go to its destruction.”

Abyss can represent foreign nations, as seas and waters. Thus when Apollyon and his army arose out of the Abyss this also symbolizes the return of Titus and his army from the local Roman conquered nations (the Abyss, sea, waters) to besiege Jerusalem (the earth, the land) in A.D. 70 after his father became emperor. Thus the ascension of this spiritual army from the Abyss also reflected and symbolized ‘on earth’ in both the return of Titus and his army from foreign Rome (the sea or Abyss) to Judea (the earth) to besiege Jerusalem in A.D. 70 as well as in the roughly concurrent resurrection of the beast symbolizing the restoration of the empire at the rise of the Flavian Dynasty.

In Verse 2 of this Chapter 9 and in Revelation 16:10, the beast’s kingdom is plunged into a darkness. Recall that the seven trumpets and bowls of Revelation each describe the same events from a slightly different perspective. In other words, the first trumpet and the first bowl describe the same event as do the second trumpet and second bowl etc. Thus the fifth trumpet of Revelation 9 in which locusts are released out of the Abyss causing the sky to darken (Revelation 9:2) corresponds to the fifth bowl when the beast’s kingdom is cast into darkness (Revelation 16:10).

In A.D. 69, Rome faced what may have been its darkest hour. That year warring generals pitted the empire’s legions against one another threatening to collapse the empire and ultimately resulting in the deaths of three self-proclaimed Caesars. Torn apart by civil war, Rome temporarily ceased its advance into Judea. Then order arose out of chaos as control of the Empire fell securely into the hands of the former general of the Judean War—Vespasian.

There is no global swarming of locusts in the future at the very end of days. These locusts came up, upon the land, a local region or area of land, the land of Judea after 68 AD.

It was typical for real insects of locusts to appear and swarm in the land of Judea annually, between May and September, a period of five months. These ‘locusts’ were allowed to attack relentlessly for five months and strip off all the green stuff. These locusts and their cruel and merciless instinctive habits symbolize as the fitting image of the real Roman army as it lay siege for 5 months and eventually totally destroyed Jerusalem.

The Jewish historian, Josephus, as well as Roman historians, recorded that the Roman armies laid a siege upon Jerusalem in 70 AD which lasted for five months. This siege began in mid-April of that year and lasted until late August/ early September, the very same period when locusts would normally appear in Judea.

The destroying army of the Romans is symbolized as or like real locusts, because of Judah’s unfaithfulness. They rejects Christ and the Father’s Kingdom en masse. The Romans eventually pummeled and stripped away all man-made structures and left nothing unturned as real destroying locusts would strip away all green natural plants, trees or grass that laid in their path.

As that time, the locust Roman army was not given power/ authority to kill the city people, but only to torture them for five months.

Verse 6: During the 5 month Roman army siege of Jerusalem, people were slowly dying of starvation. Many wanted to die yet they hung on to their torturous slowly decaying lives. They sought a quick death and could not find it.

Verse 7b:..they wore golden wreaths on their heads.

The Romans adopted Greek and Spartan military attire, including their head wear.

They wore golden wreaths as crowns. The Roman Emperor wore a golden wreath. It was called the Corona Radiata.

Verse 10: The tails of the horses were said to be like that of a scorpion. John describes a Roman spear with the tail of the snake representing the shaft and the head signifying the tip.

Verse 11: Abaddon and Apollyon is an evil angel of the Abyss, with a distinct evil human and conspicuous counterpart. Apollyon is a creative play on words for “Apollo” and “destroy.” Apollyon is Vespasian’s son Titus, the commander of the Legion XV Apollinaris (the Fifteenth Apollonian Legion).
upload_2021-12-30_10-7-22.png

Emblem on the Shields of the Roman 15th Legion.

He later was promoted to general over all the Roman legions in Judea at his father’s coronation. Thus Apollyon is an appropriate title for the former commander of Legion XV Apollinaris (the 15th Apollonian Legion) who destroyed Jerusalem and its temple.

The soldiers of the Apollonian Roman Legion are represented by locusts because locusts are sacred to Apollo.

Verses 14 – 21 The Roman Army Destruction of Jerusalem – September-October 70 AD
Verse 14: The leaders of Titus’ four legions are the earthly counterparts of the four fallen angels bound at the Euphrates since prior to the fall of Jerusalem. All four of Titus’ legions were at or near the Euphrates in 63 AD.

The sixth trumpet and bowl describe what happened next: Upon Vespasian’s ascension, in A.D. 70, control of the Roman legions in JUdea passed to his son Titus. Desiring a quick victory, Vespasian drew thousands of Roman soldiers and auxiliaries from the Euphrates and neighboring provinces to aid in the war effort. This plague describes the mobilization of these troops and their subsequent assault on Jerusalem.

Verse 16: “And the number of the armies of the cavalry was twice ten thousand ten thousands.” The Greek word for “twice ten thousand” or twenty thousand of “dismyriades.” Each of the three major units of Titus’ army consisted of a dismyriades or 20,000 soldiers.

Jeremiah 46:23 is similar with its description of the size of Nebuchadnezzar’s army – as locusts and their number too great to count.

Two hundred million (is not a literal number) => δισμυριάδες μυριάδων [dismyriades myriadōn] , two myriads of myriads, an essentially countless number. This is a similar phrase to that found in Revelation Rev. 5:11-12 to describe the countless angelic host. Only here, the phrase is doubled for heightened effect. The number should not be thought of as specifically denoting two hundred million, but a vast, essentially numberless host.

Verse 18: According to Josephus’ estimates One-Third of the People were trapped in Jerusalem during the Siege of 70 A.D. They all perished!

Verse 19: The use of astrology is necessary here to decrypt this symbolic language.

The tails of the horses were said to be like that of a snake. John gazes up at the night sky and sees the constellations Serpens Cauda, the snake tail, and Serpens Caput, the snake’s head. Lying directly above Scorpio, these constellations would also have been visible that Passover night at the start of Titus’ five month siege. As in verse 10, John describes a Roman spear with the tail of the snake representing the shaft and the head signifying the tip. John then switches gears in order to turn his readers’ attention away from the tail of Scorpio toward Ophiuchus, the serpent holder, who while holding Serpens Cauda and Serpens Caput resembles a Roman soldier grasping a spear. It should not seem a big stretch that a snake and scorpion tail could represent a spear when in Psalm 57:4 teeth are said to be spears and arrows.

upload_2021-12-30_10-7-47.png

Ophiuchus. “[F]or their tails were like snakes, having heads with which they inflict injury.”

Verse 20: Two-third who survived and were alive continued to defy God and worship idols. They did not repent of their sins under the age of grace, under the rule of Christ in his Father’s Kingdom.

Comments and improvements encouraged.....Blessings!

PS @Mayflower were you not interested in knowing about Chapter 9 recently?
 
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Jay Ross

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Hello,

The question that is not asked or understood is: - How do the Locusts get imprisoned in the Bottomless pit? Why is Satan their king over them?

My take on the OP is that the opening post is like the conspiracy theories that you peddle and is based on a flawed understanding of the scriptures and how the prophecies will be played out.

The Locusts are the soldiers of the Kings of the earth who give their armies to the Little Horn to go up against Jerusalem in our near future, but who are assembled to be judged and found wanting. At the same time the heavenly hosts, i.e. the beasts mentioned in Daniel 7:1-12 are also judged in heaven and found wanting. Together, the judged heavenly hosts and the armies of the kings of the earth are assembled together and imprisoned in a pit to await the time of their punishment. (Isaiah 24:21-22) When the Bottomless Pit is opened after the 1,000 years of imprisonment, the first entities that will rise up out of the Bottomless pit are the Locusts, but they are only allow to oppress the peoples of the earth who are not Saints for five months.

But the flawed theories have been around for many years because people are unable to see the influence of the fallen heavenly hosts over the peoples of the earth who rise up and manifest the respective beasts in whose domain that they have chosen to live within for a period of time.

Shalom
 

APAK

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@Jay Ross , so I peddle conspiracy theories and this is just another one of them? I see. How very convenient for you to use these types of charged phrases without any cause. It does not help your case at all. And your credibility is already shot. Do you really know what and why you are saying these things to me? I wonder...

Can you translate your feedback in terms of scripture in Chapter 9 and others that link to it. Otherwise I do not understand what you have said. You have jumbled up different concepts - the Kings of the Earth, the little horn, etc. And then you want me to answer how 'locusts' got imprisoned in the Bottomless pit? And how is Satan the King of the locust? Did not see this coming...quite wild statements..

What does anything you have said have anything to do with the price of tea in China? This is about Rev Chapter 9 Jay! Wake up!
Do you know you might be mixing literal things with symbolic objects Jay? And even more, mixing prophetic scripture that are not related at all.

Just saying, you are responding out of emotion and subjectivity and are not showing objectivity to share any worthwhile ideas on the subject at hand. You might want to study a little more....
 
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Jay Ross

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@Jay Ross , so I peddle conspiracy theories and this is just another one of them? I see. How very convenient for you to use these types of charged phrases without any cause. It does not help your case at all. And your credibility is already shot. Do you really know what and why you are saying these things to me? I wonder...

Can you translate your feedback in terms of scripture in Chapter 9 and others that link to it. Otherwise I do not understand what you have said. You have jumbled up different concepts - the Kings of the Earth, the little horn, etc. And then you want me to answer how 'locusts' got imprisoned in the Bottomless pit? And how is Satan the King of the locust? Did not see this coming...quite wild statements..

What does anything you have said have anything to do with the price of tea in China? This is about Rev Chapter 9 Jay! Wake up!
Do you know you might be mixing literal things with symbolic objects Jay? And even more, mixing prophetic scripture that are not related at all.

Just saying, you are responding out of emotion and subjectivity and are not showing objectivity to share any worthwhile ideas on the subject at hand. You might want to study a little more....

Oh APAK, the usual attack the person false argument. If you cannot follow what I have posted then it shows that you do not understand the Rev. 9 passage at all and so you went all over the place to explain things that had nothing to do with the Rev. 9 passage at all.

You start your post describing the AD 70 destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple as if it is describing the events that are still 1,000 plus years into our future which are outlined in Rev. 9.

Your understanding is fanciful in an attempt to show that the passage is describing past events. Nothing could be further from the truth.

As such your attack on the person instead of the content has closed down any conversation that we could possible have.

Have a good day now.
 
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APAK

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Oh APAK, the usual attack the person false argument. If you cannot follow what I have posted then it shows that you do not understand the Rev. 9 passage at all and so you went all over the place to explain things that had nothing to do with the Rev. 9 passage at all.

You start your post describing the AD 70 destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple as if it is describing the events that are still 1,000 plus years into our future which are outlined in Rev. 19.

Your understanding is fanciful in an attempt to show that the passage is describing past events. Nothing could be further from the truth.

As such your attack on the person instead of the content has closed down any conversation that we could possible have.

Have a good day now.
Jay, why did you come on this thread to really speak to Chapter 20, not really Chapter 19, concerning '1000 years etc., when you know it is only about Chapter 9?' Show a little courtesy and stay on topic please. Give me your commentary of at least the main verses of Chapter 9 if you can. Even a couple will do...

If you cannot discipline yourself to do this in the future, then please stay off this thread altogether if you do not mind. It would be the right thing to do don't you think?

You know I could make threads about Chapter 19 and Chapter 20 however this is not one of these threads Jay.

Thanks
 

Marty fox

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Chapter 9 The Siege and Destruction of Jerusalem
__________________________________________________________________________

Verses 1-11 – The Roman Army Siege of Jerusalem - April to September 70 AD
An army arises out of mortal death, symbolized as a swarm of locusts being released from the Abyss, the dark underworld of the dead. This resurrection motif as repeated throughout scripture is truly the rise of the Flavian Dynasty that revived the nearly ‘dead’ Roman Empire by putting an end to the civil war following Nero’s death.

The Roman Empire under the Flavian Caesar is also the beast whose wound had been healed in Revelation 13:3 besides the beast that rises out of the Abyss in Revelation 9:2-3, Revelation 11:7 (further describes the destruction of Jerusalem and the original anti-Christ figure and spirit) and Revelation 17:8.

The ascension of Apollyon and his locust army out of the Abyss is spoken of in Revelation 17:8 as the beast rising out of the Abyss: “The beast, which you saw, once was, now is not, and yet will come up out of the Abyss and go to its destruction.”

Abyss can represent foreign nations, as seas and waters. Thus when Apollyon and his army arose out of the Abyss this also symbolizes the return of Titus and his army from the local Roman conquered nations (the Abyss, sea, waters) to besiege Jerusalem (the earth, the land) in A.D. 70 after his father became emperor. Thus the ascension of this spiritual army from the Abyss also reflected and symbolized ‘on earth’ in both the return of Titus and his army from foreign Rome (the sea or Abyss) to Judea (the earth) to besiege Jerusalem in A.D. 70 as well as in the roughly concurrent resurrection of the beast symbolizing the restoration of the empire at the rise of the Flavian Dynasty.

In Verse 2 of this Chapter 9 and in Revelation 16:10, the beast’s kingdom is plunged into a darkness. Recall that the seven trumpets and bowls of Revelation each describe the same events from a slightly different perspective. In other words, the first trumpet and the first bowl describe the same event as do the second trumpet and second bowl etc. Thus the fifth trumpet of Revelation 9 in which locusts are released out of the Abyss causing the sky to darken (Revelation 9:2) corresponds to the fifth bowl when the beast’s kingdom is cast into darkness (Revelation 16:10).

In A.D. 69, Rome faced what may have been its darkest hour. That year warring generals pitted the empire’s legions against one another threatening to collapse the empire and ultimately resulting in the deaths of three self-proclaimed Caesars. Torn apart by civil war, Rome temporarily ceased its advance into Judea. Then order arose out of chaos as control of the Empire fell securely into the hands of the former general of the Judean War—Vespasian.

There is no global swarming of locusts in the future at the very end of days. These locusts came up, upon the land, a local region or area of land, the land of Judea after 68 AD.

It was typical for real insects of locusts to appear and swarm in the land of Judea annually, between May and September, a period of five months. These ‘locusts’ were allowed to attack relentlessly for five months and strip off all the green stuff. These locusts and their cruel and merciless instinctive habits symbolize as the fitting image of the real Roman army as it lay siege for 5 months and eventually totally destroyed Jerusalem.

The Jewish historian, Josephus, as well as Roman historians, recorded that the Roman armies laid a siege upon Jerusalem in 70 AD which lasted for five months. This siege began in mid-April of that year and lasted until late August/ early September, the very same period when locusts would normally appear in Judea.

The destroying army of the Romans is symbolized as or like real locusts, because of Judah’s unfaithfulness. They rejects Christ and the Father’s Kingdom en masse. The Romans eventually pummeled and stripped away all man-made structures and left nothing unturned as real destroying locusts would strip away all green natural plants, trees or grass that laid in their path.

As that time, the locust Roman army was not given power/ authority to kill the city people, but only to torture them for five months.

Verse 6: During the 5 month Roman army siege of Jerusalem, people were slowly dying of starvation. Many wanted to die yet they hung on to their torturous slowly decaying lives. They sought a quick death and could not find it.

Verse 7b:..they wore golden wreaths on their heads.

The Romans adopted Greek and Spartan military attire, including their head wear.

They wore golden wreaths as crowns. The Roman Emperor wore a golden wreath. It was called the Corona Radiata.

Verse 10: The tails of the horses were said to be like that of a scorpion. John describes a Roman spear with the tail of the snake representing the shaft and the head signifying the tip.

Verse 11: Abaddon and Apollyon is an evil angel of the Abyss, with a distinct evil human and conspicuous counterpart. Apollyon is a creative play on words for “Apollo” and “destroy.” Apollyon is Vespasian’s son Titus, the commander of the Legion XV Apollinaris (the Fifteenth Apollonian Legion).
View attachment 19746

Emblem on the Shields of the Roman 15th Legion.

He later was promoted to general over all the Roman legions in Judea at his father’s coronation. Thus Apollyon is an appropriate title for the former commander of Legion XV Apollinaris (the 15th Apollonian Legion) who destroyed Jerusalem and its temple.

The soldiers of the Apollonian Roman Legion are represented by locusts because locusts are sacred to Apollo.

Verses 14 – 21 The Roman Army Destruction of Jerusalem – September-October 70 AD
Verse 14: The leaders of Titus’ four legions are the earthly counterparts of the four fallen angels bound at the Euphrates since prior to the fall of Jerusalem. All four of Titus’ legions were at or near the Euphrates in 63 AD.

The sixth trumpet and bowl describe what happened next: Upon Vespasian’s ascension, in A.D. 70, control of the Roman legions in JUdea passed to his son Titus. Desiring a quick victory, Vespasian drew thousands of Roman soldiers and auxiliaries from the Euphrates and neighboring provinces to aid in the war effort. This plague describes the mobilization of these troops and their subsequent assault on Jerusalem.

Verse 16: “And the number of the armies of the cavalry was twice ten thousand ten thousands.” The Greek word for “twice ten thousand” or twenty thousand of “dismyriades.” Each of the three major units of Titus’ army consisted of a dismyriades or 20,000 soldiers.

Jeremiah 46:23 is similar with its description of the size of Nebuchadnezzar’s army – as locusts and their number too great to count.

Two hundred million (is not a literal number) => δισμυριάδες μυριάδων [dismyriades myriadōn] , two myriads of myriads, an essentially countless number. This is a similar phrase to that found in Revelation Rev. 5:11-12 to describe the countless angelic host. Only here, the phrase is doubled for heightened effect. The number should not be thought of as specifically denoting two hundred million, but a vast, essentially numberless host.

Verse 18: According to Josephus’ estimates One-Third of the People were trapped in Jerusalem during the Siege of 70 A.D. They all perished!

Verse 19: The use of astrology is necessary here to decrypt this symbolic language.

The tails of the horses were said to be like that of a snake. John gazes up at the night sky and sees the constellations Serpens Cauda, the snake tail, and Serpens Caput, the snake’s head. Lying directly above Scorpio, these constellations would also have been visible that Passover night at the start of Titus’ five month siege. As in verse 10, John describes a Roman spear with the tail of the snake representing the shaft and the head signifying the tip. John then switches gears in order to turn his readers’ attention away from the tail of Scorpio toward Ophiuchus, the serpent holder, who while holding Serpens Cauda and Serpens Caput resembles a Roman soldier grasping a spear. It should not seem a big stretch that a snake and scorpion tail could represent a spear when in Psalm 57:4 teeth are said to be spears and arrows.

View attachment 19747

Ophiuchus. “[F]or their tails were like snakes, having heads with which they inflict injury.”

Verse 20: Two-third who survived and were alive continued to defy God and worship idols. They did not repent of their sins under the age of grace, under the rule of Christ in his Father’s Kingdom.

Comments and improvements encouraged.....Blessings!

PS @Mayflower were you not interested in knowing about Chapter 9 recently?

Yes I agree with you and Joel describes an army coming against Jerusalem as locus too. 5 months is also the average life time of a locus
 

Jay Ross

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Jay, why did you come on this thread to really speak to Chapter 20, not really Chapter 19, concerning '1000 years etc., when you know it is only about Chapter 9?' Show a little courtesy and stay on topic please. Give me your commentary of at least the main verses of Chapter 9 if you can. Even a couple will do...

If you cannot discipline yourself to do this in the future, then please stay off this thread altogether if you do not mind. It would be the right thing to do don't you think?

You know I could make threads about Chapter 19 and Chapter 20 however this is not one of these threads Jay.

Thanks

But APAK, I have only addressed Rev. 9 in my above posts. I had a small typo in my post above which I have now corrected to read Rev. 9 and not Rev 19. A small error on my part to say the least, but spotted by you and I thank you for pointing it out to me..

Now as you know there are many interconnections between all of the Chapter in the Book of Revelation when you look for them. Isaiah 22:21-22 tells us that the judged Heavenly Hosts when they are judged are imprisoned in a Pit to await the time of their punishment. Satan was one of the heavenly hosts judged and we are told that as soon as he set foot on the earth that he was immediately grabbed and imprisoned for 1,000 years. As the Kings of the earth are presently being gathered to assemble at Armageddon to be judges in around 22 or so years from now, it means that Satan and the other heavenly hosts with him, will be judged also at this same time, and both the judged kings of the earth and the heavenly hosts will be imprisoned at the same time in the Bottomless pit.

Now in Rev. 20 we are told that after the 1,000 years has past, that the bottomless pit will be unlocked. Rev. 9:1-2 tells us that: "9:1 Then the fifth angel sounded: And I saw a star fallen from heaven to the earth. To him was given the key to the bottomless pit. 2 And he opened the bottomless pit, and smoke arose out of the pit like the smoke of a great furnace. So the sun and the air were darkened because of the smoke of the pit."

So, the introduction points to when the Bottomless pit was opened after the 1,000 years of their collective punishment had occurred.

All the kings of the earth and the heavenly hosts that had been judged will then be able to leave the Bottomless pit at will.

So the context that I have provided is speaking to Chapter 9 and when the events of Chapter 9 will take place. Sadly you seem to have a Preterist's understanding of the End times as written about in the Scriptures.

Now instead of attacking me personally, which is a false argument technique used to discredit other people who disagree with your point of view, I would respond more kindly if you were able to provide a reasonable argument that showed me that I was wrong in my understanding.

What you have described in your posts above is the Daniel 8:9-14 prophecy where the Temple was trampled underfoot and the earthly Hosts of God were scattered over the face of the earth. A subject that is not in any way connected to what is recorded in Rev. 9.

So for you to demand that I comment on Rev. 9 then you had also better follow your demand as well and only comment on what the Chapter foretells us will happen still in our distant future and not on what happened in our distant past.

Have a great day now.

Errors and mistakes accepted.
 

APAK

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@Marty fox I forgot to add in that some Roman Legions of Cavalry wore plumes of long hair that confirms verses Rev 9:8



“Their hair was like woman’s hair.” Middle detail of the Census Frieze. From the Altar of Domitius Ahenobarbus at the Campo Marzio, Rome. Louvre Museum, Paris.

And in Joel 1:4.."We have been invaded! What the cutting locusts left, the swarming locusts consumed; what the swarming locusts left, the creeping locusts consumed, What the creeping locusts left, the stripping locusts finished off"
 
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APAK

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And missed accounting for verse 9..
Roman soldiers wore breastplates of iron (or plates of iron) ; the standard issue of the 1st century Roman soldier.



upload_2021-12-30_20-54-37.png
 
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APAK

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More Biblical history of the use of locusts as soldiers or troops..

The Hebrew word for locust, is 'hargol,' and the Arabic word for military troops, 'hargal.' No coincidence!

These are similar words and in pronunciation because they are from the same Semitic language root or source.

Foreign armies are symbolized by locusts even in the Babylonian Talmud.

In one place it says, 'The destruction of Jerusalem (referring to Judea's 1st century war with Rome that ended in 70 AD) came through a 'Kamza' meaning locust, and a 'Bar Kamza' (the son of a locust).' The Talmud says that Jerusalem was destroyed by locusts is because locusts are symbols of foreigners.

Strong’s Concordance: #1471 gowy go’-ee rarely (shortened) goy {go’-ee}; apparently from the same root as 1465 (in the sense of meaning); a foreign nation, a troop of animals, or a flight of locusts

Foreign invaders are referred to in this Revelation Chapter 9.

This locust symbolism has multi-views and uses. Here are a few examples.

Invading forces during a siege swarm like locusts, and they leave carnage. The local lands are stripped of food, timber and vegetation in order to feed the invading armies. And in their wake they will scorch the earth and set fire to anything their enemies might find valuable.

This was the Roman profile and tactics in war. They burned many of the cities and rural areas of Judea and surrounding areas during the Judean war of the 60s AD

When ones would see a Roman army from a distance of say several thousand troops, they would looks like locusts moving about atop of the land.

The Arabs of old describe locusts as having a head like a horse, a breast like a lion, feet like a camel, a body like a serpent, and antennae or the tops of their helmets like the hair of a maiden.

The locusts described in Revelation 9 with their woman’s hair, lions’ teeth, serpent heads and serpent tails are clearly similar because this is what John intended and drew from his vision.
 
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Davy

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Chapter 9 The Siege and Destruction of Jerusalem
__________________________________________________________________________

Verses 1-11 – The Roman Army Siege of Jerusalem - April to September 70 AD
An army arises out of mortal death, symbolized as a swarm of locusts being released from the Abyss, the dark underworld of the dead. This resurrection motif as repeated throughout scripture is truly the rise of the Flavian Dynasty that revived the nearly ‘dead’ Roman Empire by putting an end to the civil war following Nero’s death.

The Roman Empire under the Flavian Caesar is also the beast whose wound had been healed in Revelation 13:3 besides the beast that rises out of the Abyss in Revelation 9:2-3, Revelation 11:7 (further describes the destruction of Jerusalem and the original anti-Christ figure and spirit) and Revelation 17:8.

The ascension of Apollyon and his locust army out of the Abyss is spoken of in Revelation 17:8 as the beast rising out of the Abyss: “The beast, which you saw, once was, now is not, and yet will come up out of the Abyss and go to its destruction.”

Abyss can represent foreign nations, as seas and waters. Thus when Apollyon and his army arose out of the Abyss this also symbolizes the return of Titus and his army from the local Roman conquered nations (the Abyss, sea, waters) to besiege Jerusalem (the earth, the land) in A.D. 70 after his father became emperor. Thus the ascension of this spiritual army from the Abyss also reflected and symbolized ‘on earth’ in both the return of Titus and his army ....

Those theories are so... funny!

Just goes to show you how far the unbeliever will go in trying to explain away Bible prophecy that is YET FUTURE because they probably don't want... it to happen! Such is men's leaven traditions of PRETERISM.
 

APAK

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Those theories are so... funny!

Just goes to show you how far the unbeliever will go in trying to explain away Bible prophecy that is YET FUTURE because they probably don't want... it to happen! Such is men's leaven traditions of PRETERISM.
I was wondering when you might show up.

And I see you have added a new thread about Joel just to counter this thread with some 'new' exotic and creative meanings that are not remotely directly associated with Revelation 9 at all. Good luck with that one.

Happy trails Davy.
 

APAK

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Let's discuss the Book of Joel....it does provide more foundational support for the monstrous event of Revelation 9

Joel 1:1
The name Joel means=>YHWH is the one true God, or the LORD.
1:2
The prophet Joel calls the eldest representatives of the surrounding communities and all the inhabitants of the land to listen intently of the events he is about to prophesize or predict in their future.
1:3
Like the plagues of the past, like the swarming locusts upon the Egyptians, which none of the fathers and previous generations had seen, it shall be retold over many future generations.
Exodus 10:2 - "that you may tell your children and grandchildren how I dealt harshly with the Egyptians and how I performed my signs among them, and that you may know that I am the Lord.” (NIV)
Exodus 10:6 - They will fill your houses and those of all your officials and all the Egyptians—something neither your parents nor your ancestors have ever seen from the day they settled in this land till now.’” Then Moses turned and left Pharaoh.(NIV)

This coming future catastrophe shall be worse that the plagues upon Egypt. It is meant to serve and warn future generations to fear and obey the LORD lest they suffer similar calamities. You would think that when calamity strikes, generations would profit and keep themselves from evil. It never seems to work that way. And this coming great calamity of the continued apostate Israel is the last straw of this rebellious nation as history records!

---to be continued of course-----
 

APAK

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Joel 1:4 Commentary and regarding Rev. 9

Verse 4: The plagues of insects here are metaphors for various Biblical wars like the Assyrian-Babylonian invasions or the military might of all the four successive world empires depicted by Daniel; as Babylon, Mede-Persia, Greece, and Rome.

As Nahum wrote against Nineveh, he likened the invading armies of foreigners to swarms of locusts and cankerworms:

Nah 3:15-17 “There a fire shall consume you, a sword cut you off, eat you up like a locust. Make yourself many like the locust, make yourself many like the swarming locust! You have increased your merchants more than the stars of the heavens. The locust shall strip off and fly away. Your officials are like the locusts, and your marshals are like the great grasshoppers, which settle in the hedges on a cold day – when the sun rises they flee away, and the place where they are is unknown.”

In Jeremiah 51:17 there is a very similar imagery:

“Lift up a banner in the land, blow a shophar among the nations! Prepare the nations against her, call the reigns together against her: Ararat, Minni, and Ashkenaz. Appoint a commander against her, bring up horses like hairy locusts.”

Regarding Revelation 9: 1-11, it is Joel’s imagery to depict the legions of Vespasian and Titus sent against the land of Judea and the remains of the apostate Israel nation.

----to be continued-----------------------
 

Jay Ross

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Hello

What is being presented here in this thread is the Conspiracy theories dating back to the Reformation era, where the German Princes wanted a way out from under the influence of the Roman Catholic Church and so linked the Roman Catholic Church as the fourth beast and the fourth segment of the Daniel 2 statue prophecy to further their cause with the people in their respective areas of influence. Unfortunately this conspiracy theory has taken hold of the theologians and many still hold to the premise that Rome is the fourth beast of Daniel 7 and the fourth empire that has had dominion over the Land of the Chaldeans, which we know from the historian Josephus is not the case. History also tells us that the Chaldeans were collected together with their utility structures and transported out of the Land of Babylon around the year 120 BC, well before the Roman Empire became a dominate power within the known world after that time.

Jeremiah 50-51 clearly indicates in these chapters that the Land of Babylon would become a land devastated and desolated for a period of two ages when the verse 50:39 is properly understood in the original Hebrew text. My paraphrase of this verse reads thus : -

39 "Therefore the wild desert beasts shall dwell there with the jackals,
And the ostriches shall dwell in it.
Nor shall it be inhabited
no more forever/for a long period of time beyond our comprehension,
Nor/Neither shall it be dwelt in
from generation to generation/for two ages.​

The return of people to the Land of Babylon was recognised before God in 1926 AD when France and England divided up the Middle East because of the oil within the land there as foretold in Rev. 16:17-21.

So, the fourth segment of the Daniel 2 statue prophecy is Iraq and not the Roman Empire as the Reformation Conspiracy Theory suggested many centauries ago.

What Joel Richardson in his books pushes is that the Islamic Religion has become the manifestation of the four beast of Daniel 7:1-12. However, he too has been influenced by the Reformation misinformation and also looks for a people group as the actual beast whereas it is my understanding that the fourth beast's influence is manifested within the various people groups that have embraced the Islamic religion.

Because of these reasons, the locusts, that will rise up out of the Bottomless pit when it is unlocked, are the Kings of the Earth and their armies that will be imprisoned in our near future in the Bottomless pit for a 1,000 year period, which is called a season in Daniel 7:12, and for a time, which is expressed in days associated with the mensuration period for a woman. When considering the period of this "time," we need to conform to the usual practice of a year for a day such that the period from when the Bottomless pit is unlocked until the time of the finial Judgement is around 28 or so years.

Rev. 9 covers the time period of the last 28 or so years of the last Age for mankind, which has been labelled as the Millennium Age. The Locusts rising out of the pit is the first sign of Satan's rush to elevate himself as a deity and king during this time period first spoken of in Daniel 7:12 as a "time."

After the Locusts, the four facetted beast which is all the four beasts of Daniel 7:1-12 working in unison, is allowed to rise up out of the pit to go out to all the peoples of the earth killing and maiming as they go forth to eventually come to Jerusalem after a period of time for their conquests over the peoples of the earth.

Shalom
 

APAK

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Hello

What is being presented here in this thread is the Conspiracy theories dating back to the Reformation era, where the German Princes wanted a way out from under the influence of the Roman Catholic Church and so linked the Roman Catholic Church as the fourth beast and the fourth segment of the Daniel 2 statue prophecy to further their cause with the people in their respective areas of influence. Unfortunately this conspiracy theory has taken hold of the theologians and many still hold to the premise that Rome is the fourth beast of Daniel 7 and the fourth empire that has had dominion over the Land of the Chaldeans, which we know from the historian Josephus is not the case. History also tells us that the Chaldeans were collected together with their utility structures and transported out of the Land of Babylon around the year 120 BC, well before the Roman Empire became a dominate power within the known world after that time.

Jeremiah 50-51 clearly indicates in these chapters that the Land of Babylon would become a land devastated and desolated for a period of two ages when the verse 50:39 is properly understood in the original Hebrew text. My paraphrase of this verse reads thus : -

39 "Therefore the wild desert beasts shall dwell there with the jackals,
And the ostriches shall dwell in it.
Nor shall it be inhabited
no more forever/for a long period of time beyond our comprehension,
Nor/Neither shall it be dwelt in
from generation to generation/for two ages.​

The return of people to the Land of Babylon was recognised before God in 1926 AD when France and England divided up the Middle East because of the oil within the land there as foretold in Rev. 16:17-21.

So, the fourth segment of the Daniel 2 statue prophecy is Iraq and not the Roman Empire as the Reformation Conspiracy Theory suggested many centauries ago.

What Joel Richardson in his books pushes is that the Islamic Religion has become the manifestation of the four beast of Daniel 7:1-12. However, he too has been influenced by the Reformation misinformation and also looks for a people group as the actual beast whereas it is my understanding that the fourth beast's influence is manifested within the various people groups that have embraced the Islamic religion.

Because of these reasons, the locusts, that will rise up out of the Bottomless pit when it is unlocked, are the Kings of the Earth and their armies that will be imprisoned in our near future in the Bottomless pit for a 1,000 year period, which is called a season in Daniel 7:12, and for a time, which is expressed in days associated with the mensuration period for a woman. When considering the period of this "time," we need to conform to the usual practice of a year for a day such that the period from when the Bottomless pit is unlocked until the time of the finial Judgement is around 28 or so years.

Rev. 9 covers the time period of the last 28 or so years of the last Age for mankind, which has been labelled as the Millennium Age. The Locusts rising out of the pit is the first sign of Satan's rush to elevate himself as a deity and king during this time period first spoken of in Daniel 7:12 as a "time."

After the Locusts, the four facetted beast which is all the four beasts of Daniel 7:1-12 working in unison, is allowed to rise up out of the pit to go out to all the peoples of the earth killing and maiming as they go forth to eventually come to Jerusalem after a period of time for their conquests over the peoples of the earth.

Shalom
Jay, I'm at a loss to know what you are speaking about here and what's with this conspiracy theory you have again charged me for the second time as you say I'm in cahoots and have connected with the RCC as a 4th Beast of some kind, and the German Princes and the age of the Reformation. I have made no such connections. You are making it all up. Are you just trying to derail this thread or are you just deliberately not willing to read what I have written and are just spilling out anything to cause chaos, that does not agree with your Future end-times scenarios?

I am getting a bit tired of your unwanted and incoherent ranting comments that have nothing in common my views at all. You are speaking in a different language with scripture spread out and linked in a wild fashion. I would rather you did not continue with these types of comments and filled with false wild accusations. May this be a warning to you Sir.
 

Jay Ross

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I am getting a bit tired of your unwanted and incoherent ranting comments that have nothing in common my views at all. You are speaking in a different language with scripture spread out and linked in a wild fashion. I would rather you did not continue with these types of comments and filled with false wild accusations. May this be a warning to you Sir.

Sir why are you so angry with me when I quote the scriptures to justify my position. Why are you trying to intimidate me for posting what I believe is the truth by making threats towards me. You are the one who is presenting a false testimony of what God has foretold us, what will happen during the End Times. Now if you views are not in line with the scriptures, then that is your problem to fix, but becoming abusive towards me is not warranted for a person who calls himself a Christian.

If you cannot follow my comments on Rev. 9, then that would suggest that you need to meditate on the passages more so that God can reveal His truths to you.

Your comments above are more in line with the prophecy found in Daniel 8 concerning the gentiles trampling God's Sanctuary and His Earthly Hosts for a period of 2,400 years lead by the Little Horn who is given a number of armies to accomplish his desire to trample God's Sanctuary and His Earthly Hosts. The Little Horn in conjunction with the people groups who are inhabiting the fourth beasts dominion and manifesting His presence on the earth, over this 2,400 year period that this prophecy is in focus. The Kings of the earth who are presently trampling God's sanctuary and his earthly hosts at this present time will be judged in our near future at Armageddon and then imprisoned in the Bottomless pit for a prescribed period of 1,000 years. Now I agree with you that these judged king of the earth will become the locusts described in Rev. 9.

The readers of this thread will make up their own mind as to who is presenting the truth in their comments.

Now if you continue to with the general thrust of your current posts, then I will not be the only person who will point out the errors in your understanding of Rev. 9. I hope that they will address the content that you post rather than the person as you have done with me.

Have a great day now.
 

APAK

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@Jay Ross I will continue only with Rev 9 and I'm currently attaching support from Joel. I most probably will discuss some of your scripture later as as my analysis continues, as it develops and not until that time. If I try to entertain your theories only and your scripture I will just derail my thread completely. I will not change the name of my thread for you and I will ignore any future attempts you are making to bust in to derail me, even of you are not aware of it. I've been very patient with you.

This is a complex subject and what I've seem from many posters and threads on this subject in the past are incoherent messes with a parroting of the same worn-out ideas that I believe are completely wrong, at least in part.

If you cannot or won't comment on the verses in my OP and posts here, at least then keep your powder dry for later. You may need all of it and more.
 

APAK

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Continuing on...........as support for Rev 9 and the Roman destruction of Jerusalem

Joel verse 5:

“All of you drunkards, get up and cry! Weep and wail, all of you wine drinkers. Your sweet wine has been snatched from your mouths.”(Voice)

The future locust army plague brought against Israel and Judea in their distant future is the manifestation of God's final displeasure because of their continued faithlessness and their continual sinning and idol worship. They rejected the Savior.

The literal vineyards of grapes would be stripped bare, and the vines burned to the ground. There will be no new grapes to make new wine. No more drinking and intoxication. Their lands razed to the ground. No more sense of false security and lawlessness, and idol worship.

The destruction of all vegetation, including the vineyards, would have interrupted and cut off the supply of intoxicants indeed. The Biblical view of drinking intoxicants and wallowing in drunkenness relates to the conditions for wickedness, and not for the actual disease itself.

Now the ‘new (sweet) wine’ can be used as a metaphor for Christ and the new life. The blood-line and Israel ended because they rejected the 'new wine' and were 'cut off' or perished themselves as they 'cut off' Christ on the Cross. The ‘new wine’ in this type of Christ imaginary would be given only to a remnant of the ‘old’ Israel, of the 'dead' Law. The other surrounding nations embraced the ‘new wine’ with open arms. They were never the target of this physical destruction, death and the great tribulation that causes the end of one age and the beginning of the new one we are presently living in today, in Christ.

Joel said, 'wake up you drunkards' you will be all dead in the end, and over one million perished in 70 AD by the Roman locusts.


--------------to be continued ------------------------------------
 
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Davy

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I was wondering when you might show up.

And I see you have added a new thread about Joel just to counter this thread with some 'new' exotic and creative meanings that are not remotely directly associated with Revelation 9 at all. Good luck with that one.

Happy trails Davy.

Been wanting to show what the Book of Joel is about for brethren for a long time now. The falseness you learned from men about Rev.9 just gave me the impetus to show them what God's Word really... says.