Righteousness and Holiness

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

marks

Well-Known Member
Oct 10, 2018
33,156
21,420
113
SoCal USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
@stunnedbygrace @MatthewG @FluffyYellowDuck

At the most basic level, I understand holy to mean set apart for God, and righteous to be in the right.

As I go a little deeper into the thought, I quickly realize what I think is that it's right to be set apart for God, and being set apart for God means I'm in the right. On a decretive level, God speaks those things that are not as though they are, and I believe His word makes it so. On an experiential level, there seem to be differences in degree.

Then there are "imputed righteousness" and "imparted righteousness", one being the righteousness given Abraham as he believed God, the other being the newness of life brought though immersion into Christ.

There is Ephesians 4:24, put on the new man created after God in righteousness and true holiness, except the word there isn't hagios, it's a different word.

We can have imputed righteousness (forgiveness of sins), and imparted righteousness (a new creation), and yet have more or less practical righteousness, as our lives are up and down.

OK, I'm running late now . . . maybe this gets us started?

Much love!
 
Last edited:

stunnedbygrace

Well-Known Member
Aug 18, 2018
12,397
12,048
113
USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Addressing Your third paragraph, marks -

Abraham believed and trusted God and God counted him righteous because he believed and trusted God.
We believe and trust God also and it is the same righteousness that is through trust (faith) that Abraham had.

By the kindness of God, through trust. That is how a man is saved. By grace, through faith.

I see them as the same. Imputed? imparted? I don’t know what that means. The same trust in God. The righteousness that is by trust (faith).


Romans 4
1
What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather, discovered in this matter?
2
If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about--but not before God.
3
What does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness." [1]
4
Now when a man works, his wages are not credited to him as a gift, but as an obligation.
5
However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness.
6
David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:
7
"Blessed are they whose transgressions are forgiven, whose sins are covered.
8
Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord will never count against him." [2]
9
Is this blessedness only for the circumcised, or also for the uncircumcised? We have been saying that Abraham's faith was credited to him as righteousness.
10
Under what circumstances was it credited? Was it after he was circumcised, or before? It was not after, but before!

11
And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. So then, he is the father of all who believe but have not been circumcised, in order that righteousness might be credited to them.
12
And he is also the father of the circumcised who not only are circumcised but who also walk in the footsteps of the faith that our father Abraham had before he was circumcised.
13
It was not through law that Abraham and his offspring received the promise that he would be heir of the world, but through the righteousness that comes by faith.
14
For if those who live by law are heirs, faith has no value and the promise is worthless,
15
because law brings wrath. And where there is no law there is no transgression.
16
Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham's offspring--not only to those who are of the law but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham. He is the father of us all.
17
As it is written: "I have made you a father of many nations." [3] He is our father in the sight of God, in whom he believed--the God who gives life to the dead and calls things that are not as though they were.
18
Against all hope, Abraham in hope believed and so became the father of many nations, just as it had been said to him, "So shall your offspring be." [4]
19
Without weakening in his faith, he faced the fact that his body was as good as dead--since he was about a hundred years old--and that Sarah's womb was also dead.
20
Yet he did not waver through unbelief regarding the promise of God, but was strengthened in his faith and gave glory to God,
21
being fully persuaded that God had power to do what he had promised.
22
This is why "it was credited to him as righteousness."
23
The words "it was credited to him" were written not for him alone,
24
but also for us, to whom God will credit righteousness--for us who believe in him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead.
25
He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification.
 
Last edited:

Ezra

Well-Known Member
Dec 27, 2018
2,564
1,314
113
62
Missouri
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I see them as the same.
more or less they are holiness and sanctified is same thing . first we get saved and are justified declared righteous , then set part which has 3 steps 1.postional placed in the body of Christ . 2. progressive we grow i grace and knowledge . by becoming a work in progress. 3 ultimate/final we made it to heaven .the work is complete :D
 

DuckieLady

Well-Known Member
Jan 8, 2021
3,287
5,924
113
Midwest-ish
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
@stunnedbygrace @MatthewG @FluffyYellowDuck

At the most basic level, I understand holy to mean set apart for God, and righteous to be in the right.

As I go a little deeper into the thought, I quickly realize what I think is that it's right to be set apart for God, and being set apart for God means I'm in the right. On a decretive level, God speaks those things that are not as though they are, and I believe His word makes it so. On an experiential level, there seem to be differences in degree.

Then there are "imputed righteousness" and "imparted righteousness", one being the righteousness given Abraham as he believed God, the other being the newness of life brought though immersion into Christ.

There is Ephesians 4:24, put on the new man created after God in righteousness and true holiness, except the word there isn't hagios, it's a different word.

We can have imputed righteousness (forgiveness of sins), and imparted righteousness (a new creation), and yet have more or less practical righteousness, as our lives are up and down.

OK, I'm running late now . . . maybe this gets us started?

Much love!
I agree with all of this.


I had looked into this before and I'm still absorbing it, but I found this interpretation of Tzedaqah (righteousness) very interesting.

Particularly Jesus talking about separating the wheat (righteousness) from the chaff (lawlessness).

Righteousness (Tzedaqah), the Ancient Hebrew Meaning
 

farouk

Well-Known Member
Jan 21, 2009
30,790
19,230
113
North America
I agree with all of this.


I had looked into this before and I'm still absorbing it, but I found this interpretation of Tzedaqah (righteousness) very interesting.

Particularly Jesus talking about separating the wheat (righteousness) from the chaff (lawlessness).

Righteousness (Tzedaqah), the Ancient Hebrew Meaning
A section of Psalm 119 is entitled Tzadek, as I recall...

All to do with the great truth of justification....
 
  • Like
Reactions: DuckieLady

MatthewG

Well-Known Member
Apr 21, 2021
14,096
4,919
113
33
Fyffe
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Hello everyone, nice responses in finding more about righteousness, and sanctification.

Here is something found in Romans 10:
“that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:9-10‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

justified - righteousness
1. in the broad sense, the state of him who is such as he ought to be, righteousness(German Rechtbeschaffenheit); the condition acceptable to God (German Gottwohlgefalligkeit);

Confess:
From a compound of the base of homou and logos; to assent, i.e. Covenant, acknowledge -- con- (pro-)fess, confession is made, give thanks, promise.

Heart;
the heart, thoughts, feelings

Prolonged from a primary kar (Latin cor, "heart"); the heart, i.e. (figuratively) the thoughts or feelings (mind); also (by analogy) the middle -- (+ broken-)heart(-ed).

“Therefore, if anyone cleanses himself from these things, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified, useful to the Master, prepared for every good work.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭2:21‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Sanctified- Holy
2. to separate from things profane and dedicate to God, to consecrate and so render inviolable;
 

MatthewG

Well-Known Member
Apr 21, 2021
14,096
4,919
113
33
Fyffe
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
@marks the word for your scripture ends up coming to this definition.

3742. hosiotés only 2 occurrence in scripture.

says see hosios

righteous, pious, holy

Of uncertain affinity; properly, right (by intrinsic or divine character; thus distinguished from dikaios, which refers rather to human statutes and relations; from hieros, which denotes formal consecration; and from hagios, which relates to purity from defilement), i.e. Hallowed (pious, sacred, sure) -- holy, mercy, shalt be. anakainosis
 

stunnedbygrace

Well-Known Member
Aug 18, 2018
12,397
12,048
113
USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Okay, I was reading marks as if he was eager to start this thread and was starting it before he left work and would return last night or this morning. I’m a little worried he ran into some trouble.
Edit: I see he edited his op after 10 p.m. maybe he is just waiting or has a busy weekend…
 
Last edited:

stunnedbygrace

Well-Known Member
Aug 18, 2018
12,397
12,048
113
USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
So with my post #2 I was addressing marks third paragraph, which seemed to me to be saying there was a difference between Abrahams being counted righteous because of his trust and our being counted righteous because of our trust. I highlighted the parts of the passage I believe show that it is the same righteousness by trust, not different.

I think it’s an important base to start with because it is that trust He saves us by and that we learn to walk in and grow in through which we receive all the good God has for us. We started by trusting God and we have to continue and grow by trusting God.

It seems so simple but we find it isn’t. That trust is the most precious thing. It is the entire race, a race of trust as Paul said. And satan knows this, so it is the thing he will come against to try to muddy and confuse everything. Most of us get stuck for many years in worrying about everything rather than that simple trust in everything. And so we are held back in that halfway in trust and halfway out of trust state. It is a state in which He can’t do many miracles because of our lack of trust.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: marks and Nancy

MatthewG

Well-Known Member
Apr 21, 2021
14,096
4,919
113
33
Fyffe
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
It’s important to have faith in the Gospel of Christ trusting that He died, was buried, and resurrected.

That you are now seen as a child of God by faith. Abraham was accounted being made right with God by faith. So it is the same with us we are accounted to be made right with God by and have peace with God being justified by it.

However what is one placing their faith in? It says the Gospel of Christ is the power to Salvation for anyone whom believes. Is that something you put your totally trust in faith in?

The faith of being born again, where God has placed the Holy Spirit in your heart?

Where you live and believe in your heart that Jesus died, was buried, and was resurrected and you now are seen as right in Gods sight because of faith in the Gospel which one has if you want to learn and grow in spirit and worship God in spirit and truth? That you have a connection with God because of your faith in the Gospel of Christ?

Romans 5:1-7 Romans 1:16 1 Corinthians 15:4 Romans 10:9-12
 

Ronald David Bruno

Well-Known Member
Nov 7, 2020
3,808
1,855
113
Southern
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
@stunnedbygrace @MatthewG @FluffyYellowDuck

At the most basic level, I understand holy to mean set apart for God, and righteous to be in the right.

As I go a little deeper into the thought, I quickly realize what I think is that it's right to be set apart for God, and being set apart for God means I'm in the right. On a decretive level, God speaks those things that are not as though they are, and I believe His word makes it so. On an experiential level, there seem to be differences in degree.

Then there are "imputed righteousness" and "imparted righteousness", one being the righteousness given Abraham as he believed God, the other being the newness of life brought though immersion into Christ.

There is Ephesians 4:24, put on the new man created after God in righteousness and true holiness, except the word there isn't hagios, it's a different word.

We can have imputed righteousness (forgiveness of sins), and imparted righteousness (a new creation), and yet have more or less practical righteousness, as our lives are up and down.

OK, I'm running late now . . . maybe this gets us started?

Much love!
On a basic level, since God is Holy, we are to be holy. He is making us holy but we won't reach that perfection until we either die and are ressurected.
What will be our state, make-up, character?
Good ... separate from evil.
Everything that good is, is holy, always separate from evil. So we have moments of pure perfection when we are filled with the Holy Spirit and cooperating with His purpose and plan. But then sometimes our flesh gets in the way and taints this holiness.

We will be eternally good/pure/holy someday.
.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nancy and dev553344

stunnedbygrace

Well-Known Member
Aug 18, 2018
12,397
12,048
113
USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
It helps to read about Israel in the desert and see WHY they wandered for so long and died in that wandering, never entering into the abundance God had for them.

They began well. They trusted God enough to step out under that wall of water. Then they proceeded to not remain in that same amazing trust when it came to earthly matters of provision like food and water. It’s the same place we get stuck in for many years, where all our worries about earthly matters keep us bound.
If we won’t believe and trust Him in what He has said about earthly things and then have the obedience of trust, He can’t tell us about heavenly things,(John 3:12) because if we won’t trust in earthly things, we wouldn’t believe Him if He told us about heavenly things.

I have many things to tell you but you aren’t ready to bear them.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Nancy

stunnedbygrace

Well-Known Member
Aug 18, 2018
12,397
12,048
113
USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
So we see so many we come into contact with who say they trust God but are fearful and worried about so many earthly things, like their job, how they will keep a roof over their head, coronavirus, how their 401k has tanked, their health. But we were told not to worry about those things.

And often, those people we come into contact with will talk about and debate about all manner of things about God, yet we see them not trusting but rather worrying. They are right where Israel was in the desert, held back from the abundance God has for them because they try to bypass the one very most important thing to discuss loftier things.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Nancy

stunnedbygrace

Well-Known Member
Aug 18, 2018
12,397
12,048
113
USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Examine yourself to see if you really ARE in trust. (2 Cor, 13:5)

But when I come, WILL I find trust? (Luke 18:8)

I can’t make you stand firm if you wont stand firm. (Isaiah 7:9)
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: MatthewG

dev553344

Well-Known Member
Jul 14, 2020
14,476
17,040
113
USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
@stunnedbygrace @MatthewG @FluffyYellowDuck

At the most basic level, I understand holy to mean set apart for God, and righteous to be in the right.

As I go a little deeper into the thought, I quickly realize what I think is that it's right to be set apart for God, and being set apart for God means I'm in the right. On a decretive level, God speaks those things that are not as though they are, and I believe His word makes it so. On an experiential level, there seem to be differences in degree.

Then there are "imputed righteousness" and "imparted righteousness", one being the righteousness given Abraham as he believed God, the other being the newness of life brought though immersion into Christ.

There is Ephesians 4:24, put on the new man created after God in righteousness and true holiness, except the word there isn't hagios, it's a different word.

We can have imputed righteousness (forgiveness of sins), and imparted righteousness (a new creation), and yet have more or less practical righteousness, as our lives are up and down.

OK, I'm running late now . . . maybe this gets us started?

Much love!
Holy means clean from the blood and sin of the world. We can be cleansed to become holy thru the blood of Christ and the Holy Spirit. But darkness voids our holy nature. Lies, deceit, sensual and brutal works defile us and make us dark spiritually and physically. Again the cleansing of the blood of the Lamb and the Baptism of the Holy Spirit cleanse us.
 

stunnedbygrace

Well-Known Member
Aug 18, 2018
12,397
12,048
113
USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
So, I guess my point was…the first thing is the righteousness that is by trust (faith). If we are double minded in trust,
We get ahead of ourselves in a discussion about holiness. Do the first thing first.
 
Last edited: