ROMANS 3:28 JUSTIFIED BY FAITH

[Doug]

Romans 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

The law can save no one. We are justified by faith in Christ Jesus, by believing the gospel of Grace.

3:29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:

3:30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.

Jew and Gentile are justified by faith. Without the law. Without the covenants of Israel. Without good works. Without water baptism. Without walking down an aisle. Without confessing. We are justified by faith alone. It has always been by grace, by faith, that one can be justified. It has always been by the justification found in Christ that God could be just in forgiving sin; this was only made known by the revelations given to Paul.

3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

The law is not made void by faith. The law is not made void because Gentiles, not given the law, are saved by faith.

Romans 4:1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?

4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

Abraham was justified unto eternal life by believing God. Abraham was justified by works when he obeyed God and was willing to offer up Isaac.

There is more than one meaning to justification; look at Psalm 51:4 where God is declared to be righteous in his judgment. There is justification unto eternal life as when Abraham by faith, believed God (Genesis 15:6). There is justification in being righteous as when Abraham was justified by works (Genesis 22:2 James 2:21).

It should be noted that Abraham was justified by faith in Genesis 15:6, but after Genesis 15:6 covenant was made with Abraham. Covenant was made in Genesis 15:18 wherein God promised the land to his seed. God made covenant in Genesis 17:2 in which God promised to multiply Abraham exceedingly. God made covenant in Genesis 17:4 in which God promised to make Abraham father of many nations. God made in Genesis 17:10 the covenant of circumcision.

In Genesis 17:1 God told Abraham to be perfect (whole, without blemish) before him. In Genesis 17:2 God said he would make the promised covenant if Abraham was perfect before him. Abraham had to keep the covenant (Genesis 17:9). The book of James says faith was made perfect by works (James 2:22), so it can be seen that Abraham was justified by works under the covenants made by God and his faith made perfect.

4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

If we could produce good works God would be obligated by debt to repay us; this would not be grace. Grace is given not out of debt, but love.

4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

God justifies the ungodly. We do not have to be righteous to be saved. We do not have to turn from sin and clean up to be saved. We have to believe on Jesus Christ who paid the penalty for our sin and justifies us freely by faith in his blood (Romans 3:24-25). Out of love and thankfulness we can, and should live in newness of life unto him (Romans 6:4).

 

[reformed1689]

Be careful how you word things. It is true we are saved by grace THROUGH faith. But the evidence of that salvation comes from turning from sin, cleaning up our lives, doing good works. Faith without works is dead. So be careful because your post could easily be read to say, "I just have to put faith in Christ then I can go back to life as usual and I'm good."

 

[Doug]

Be careful how you word things. It is true we are saved by grace THROUGH faith. But the evidence of that salvation comes from turning from sin, cleaning up our lives, doing good works. Faith without works is dead. So be careful because your post could easily be read to say, "I just have to put faith in Christ then I can go back to life as usual and I'm good."

We should live unto God in newness of life and repent from sin by reckoning ourselves dead unto sin, crucified with Christ.
Please show me the verse in Paul's epistles where the evidence of our salvation comes from good works.
Faith without works is from James, written to the twelve tribes.

 

[reformed1689]

We should live unto God in newness of life and repent from sin by reckoning ourselves dead unto sin, crucified with Christ.
Please show me the verse in Paul's epistles where the evidence of our salvation comes from good works.
Faith without works is from James, written to the twelve tribes.

Why do you limit it to Paul's epistles?

 

[justbyfaith]

Jew and Gentile are justified by faith. Without the law.

Indeed: for it is written,

Rom 3:21, But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

Both the law and the prophets testify to the fact that it is righteousness indeed.

How so?

See Galatians 5:22-23.

We do not have to turn from sin and clean up to be saved.

I'm not sure that this is the case. Both John the Baptist and Jesus told the people to "Repent; for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."

We should live unto God in newness of life and repent from sin by reckoning ourselves dead unto sin, crucified with Christ.
Please show me the verse in Paul's epistles where the evidence of our salvation comes from good works.
Faith without works is from James, written to the twelve tribes.

I believe that the following verses from Paul show that obedience results out of salvation:

Rom 1:5, By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:

Rom 16:25, Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
Rom 16:26, But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

Tit 3:14, And let ours also learn to maintain good works for necessary uses, that they be not unfruitful.

 

[Doug]

Why do you limit it to Paul's epistles?

Paul is our apostle. Paul is writing for the church in this dispensation.
James, while we can benefit from this book, is written to Jews under the law and the covenants. Works under the law are required (Matthew 5:16 Matthew 3:8).
We are created in Christ unto good works (Ephesians 2:10)

 

[reformed1689]

Paul is our apostle. Paul is writing for the church in this dispensation.
James, while we can benefit from this book, is written to Jews under the law and the covenants. Works under the law are required (Matthew 5:16 Matthew 3:8).
We are created in Christ unto good works (Ephesians 2:10)

I've got news for you, Paul didn't write to you or me. You realize this right?

 

[Doug]

Indeed: for it is written,

Rom 3:21, But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

Both the law and the prophets testify to the fact that it is righteousness indeed.



I'm not sure that this is the case. Both John the Baptist and Jesus told the people to "Repent; for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."



I believe that the following verses from Paul show that obedience results out of salvation:

Rom 1:5, By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:

Rom 16:25, Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
Rom 16:26, But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

Tit 3:14, And let ours also learn to maintain good works for necessary uses, that they be not unfruitful.

John the Baptist and Jesus were preaching the coming of the Davidic kingdom on earth and keeping the law unto Israel.
Yes we are to have good works but that is not for the evidence of whether we have faith or not.

 

[Doug]

I've got news for you, Paul didn't write to you or me. You realize this right?

Please explain

 

[justbyfaith]

John the Baptist and Jesus were preaching the coming of the Davidic kingdom on earth and keeping the law unto Israel.
Yes we are to have good works but that is not for the evidence of whether we have faith or not.

I believe that Jesus' and JTB's words apply to the Christian church today.

 

[FHII]

Doug,

Well done! I am in agreement to what you have written up to this point. The one point I would discuss (not necessarily disagree with) is Romans 4. You spoke of him offering up Isaac, but that is not what Romans 4 is referring to. It's simply speaking of him (Abraham) having faith that he and Sarah were going to have Isaac when they were both too old (by human standards).

The interesting point is that they weren't really perfect in faith here... Sarah suggested Abraham sleep with the younger Hagar... That produced Ishmael. But that wasn't the promise. However, they still had faith to get the job done according to God's plan.

As for offering up Isaac... That wasn't considered a work according to Hebrews 12. If that account is accurate, Abraham offered him up -- willing to kill him -- but still believed the linage would continue through Isaac. According to Heb 12, Abraham expected God to raise Isaac from the dead.

So yes, it was obedience... But it was the faith that God was still going to deliver the promise even if Isaac died. Abraham simply believed he (Isaac) would be resurrected.

This may be works as evidence...but only with men... Not God! God didn't need Abraham's works; he needed his faith.

So when you look at what James said:

James 2:18 KJV
Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

James is talking about people seeing faith by works. It's sad, but man needs the physical evidence! They need to see works to see faith. Now look at Paul:

Romans 4:2 KJV
For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

These two verses oddly agree. You got works, you can glory before men. But not God! James was looking to prove to men he had faith by his works, but Paul said it is glory, but not before God.

I can throw in Matthew 6, here... The opening 10 or so verses say don't give, pray or fast to be seen of men. Do it in secret before God.

Again Doug, well done! I bring this up not to question your excellent postings, but to further the discussion.

 

[FHII]

I believe that Jesus' and JTB's words apply to the Christian church today.

As I do as well... But only that it is but one part of the overall plan. It's like "checking the dipstick" when putting oil in your car. Yeah, an important step, but there's more to it.

 

[FHII]

I've got news for you, Paul didn't write to you or me. You realize this right?

David,

Do you really believe that? I don't think you do. If you really believe that, then why read or follow the Bible at all?

I have the suspicion that you are just trying to make a point That point being that the book of James is just as relevant to us as let's say, Ephesians.

I would agree, but we still can't forget the original intended audience and mindset of the author.

Paul did not write his Epistles to me.. ole FHII. But he did include me,God and wrote those Epistles to me.

James was writing from a certain perspective to a certain audience. I am not included. Oh, he still wanted me to read James and learn from it...

The key is found in the book of Acts and understanding the historical account. James and Paul were brothers in Christ, but not on the same page.

 

[reformed1689]

Do you really believe that? I don't think you do. If you really believe that, then why read or follow the Bible at all?

I absolutely believe that.

I have the suspicion that you are just trying to make a point That point being that the book of James is just as relevant to us as let's say, Ephesians.

Of course that is the point.

I would agree, but we still can't forget the original intended audience and mindset of the author.

Precisely my point.

Paul did not write his Epistles to me.. ole FHII. But he did include me,God and wrote those Epistles to me.

Not to me, but it is for me.

 

[FHII]

I absolutely believe that.

Of course that is the point.


Precisely my point.
Not to me, but it is for me.

Well then, David, on the surface you are contradicting yourself. On the surface, that is..

Paul and James were indeed writing to specific people. We can actually find names of individuals in some of Paul's letters. But while they were writing to individuals, God was writing to us.

I picked Ephesians... It was easy:
Ephesians 1:1 KJV
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:

It was to the faithful saints at Ephesus, but also to me: the faithful in Jesus. In 1 Cor 10 he says that scripture was written to them whom the end would come.

Bottom line, all of it is written to us. But we cannot ignore the first chosen audience.

So when you look at James, you cannot ignore his mindset. James did not relieve the law as a burden. Please look at Acts. He wanted Christians to keep the law while Paul didn't.

 

[justbyfaith]

Paul gave verses that said that we ought to keep the law also.

Romans 8:4, Romans 8:7.

Galatians 3:14 and Romans 5:5 w/ Romans 13:8-10 and Galatians 5:14.

Also Galatians 5:22-23 and Romans 3:21.

Add John's verses: 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6;

and you have a teaching that faith produces the righteousness of the law being fulfilled in us.

According to Paul's writings.

Paul also wrote:

1Co 9:19, For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.
1Co 9:20, And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;
1Co 9:21, To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.
1Co 9:22, To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.

Paul became as those who were without the law in order to teach men to obey the law.

If Paul was the author of Hebrews, you can add the following verses to the equation:

Hebrews 8:8-10 and Hebrews 10:16.

 

[reformed1689]

Paul and James were indeed writing to specific people. We can actually find names of individuals in some of Paul's letters. But while they were writing to individuals, God was writing to us.

I agree. But the comment was made to ignore James letter because of who it is written to. My original point is that we would then have to ignore all of Scripture. I would not say God wrote it to us, but for us. There is a minor but distinct difference.

 

[Doug]

I believe that Jesus' and JTB's words apply to the Christian church today.

May I respectfully say then you would have to keep the law.
Jesus taught to keep the law in Matthew 19:17 and Matthew 5:18 as examples.
Paul says we are not under the law (Romans 6:14)

 

[reformed1689]

May I respectfully say then you would have to keep the law.
Jesus taught to keep the law in Matthew 19:17 and Matthew 5:18 as examples.
Paul says we are not under the law (Romans 6:14)

You only get that if you do not look at the whole of Scripture and isolate passages to themselves.

 

[Doug]

Doug,

Well done! I am in agreement to what you have written up to this point. The one point I would discuss (not necessarily disagree with) is Romans 4. You spoke of him offering up Isaac, but that is not what Romans 4 is referring to. It's simply speaking of him (Abraham) having faith that he and Sarah were going to have Isaac when they were both too old (by human standards).

The interesting point is that they weren't really perfect in faith here... Sarah suggested Abraham sleep with the younger Hagar... That produced Ishmael. But that wasn't the promise. However, they still had faith to get the job done according to God's plan.

As for offering up Isaac... That wasn't considered a work according to Hebrews 12. If that account is accurate, Abraham offered him up -- willing to kill him -- but still believed the linage would continue through Isaac. According to Heb 12, Abraham expected God to raise Isaac from the dead.

So yes, it was obedience... But it was the faith that God was still going to deliver the promise even if Isaac died. Abraham simply believed he (Isaac) would be resurrected.

This may be works as evidence...but only with men... Not God! God didn't need Abraham's works; he needed his faith.

So when you look at what James said:

James 2:18 KJV
Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

James is talking about people seeing faith by works. It's sad, but man needs the physical evidence! They need to see works to see faith. Now look at Paul:

Romans 4:2 KJV
For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

These two verses oddly agree. You got works, you can glory before men. But not God! James was looking to prove to men he had faith by his works, but Paul said it is glory, but not before God.

I can throw in Matthew 6, here... The opening 10 or so verses say don't give, pray or fast to be seen of men. Do it in secret before God.

Again Doug, well done! I bring this up not to question your excellent postings, but to further the discussion.

Thanks for the post and I see your points.

I think that Romans 4:2 is speaking at least in part to the sacrifice of Isaac and corresponds to James 2:21

I think James 2:18 is speaking of the Jews knowing who is a believer and who is not in the tribulation ( Matthew 7:16)