ROMANS 8 EXPLAINED

[H. Richard]

These verse are about where a person has placed their faith. Is in God’s work or their own works.

Rom 8:1-16
8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

A child of God walks in the Spirit and has no confidence in the flesh. -- Phil 3:3
For we are the circumcision, who worship God in the Spirit, rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh, -- NKJV

2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

A person who has faith in the shed blood of Jesus on the cross is set free from the condemnation of the law.

3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

See Romans 7 ---Rom 7:23-25
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?
25 I thank God — through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.
NKJV

4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

Those that place their faith in their religious activities to save them are minding the things of the flesh and are therefore walking in the flesh.

6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Those that depend on their religious activities are not pleasing God. They are against the plan of God’s grace.

9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

We see in verse 10 that the child of God’s body of sin is dead even though the child still lives in it.

11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.

This has nothing to do with the natural sins of the flesh. How can it since the body of sin is already dead. It is all about man’s efforts in the flesh to save himself.

13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. --- mortify = to cause or feel shame, humiliation, example see :the Pharisee and the Tax Collector story Jesus told.

If you are trying to be saved by the works of the flesh you will die.

14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
KJV

 

[Episkopos]

Romans 8 is about the law of the Spirit overcoming the law of sin....just as the law of flight overcomes gravity. It explains how grace and it's power saves us from the power of sin.

 

[farouk]

Romans 8 is about the law of the Spirit overcoming the law of sin....just as the law of flight overcomes gravity. It explains how grace and it's power saves us from the power of sin.

It's a truly powerful chapter, among the most sublime and powerful ones in the whole Bible!

 

[Dave L]

These verse are about where a person has placed their faith. Is in God’s work or their own works.

Rom 8:1-16
8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

A child of God walks in the Spirit and has no confidence in the flesh. -- Phil 3:3
For we are the circumcision, who worship God in the Spirit, rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh, -- NKJV

2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

A person who has faith in the shed blood of Jesus on the cross is set free from the condemnation of the law.

3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

See Romans 7 ---Rom 7:23-25
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?
25 I thank God — through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.
NKJV

4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

Those that place their faith in their religious activities to save them are minding the things of the flesh and are therefore walking in the flesh.

6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Those that depend on their religious activities are not pleasing God. They are against the plan of God’s grace.

9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

We see in verse 10 that the child of God’s body of sin is dead even though the child still lives in it.

11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.

This has nothing to do with the natural sins of the flesh. How can it since the body of sin is already dead. It is all about man’s efforts in the flesh to save himself.

13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. --- mortify = to cause or feel shame, humiliation, example see :the Pharisee and the Tax Collector story Jesus told.

If you are trying to be saved by the works of the flesh you will die.

14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
KJV

Many believe in Romans 7 Paul explains what it is like being an unconverted Jew under the Law. And he is not describing the born again lifestyle. Then in chapter 8 he moves into the born again phase of his experience.

 

[Episkopos]

The difference between Romans 7 and Romans 8 is the difference between Christ in you....and then us abiding in Christ. When we abide in Him AND He is us we experience the full power of Christ through a spiritual walk in Him.

What so many are taught is that there is no need to seek after an entering into Christ...because you are already saved and the sinning is forgiven from here on in.


But the result of this kind of teaching is a lack of spiritual power in the church...and a lack of life. It makes the church only half-baked.

 

[H. Richard]

Those that replied are saying that a person born of God does not sin in the flesh. The scriptures never teach this.

To these it is all about man and what he does and they never focus on what Jesus did for sinful man.

They never focus on the power of God that was in Jesus' work on the cross except to say they got something for the flesh.

What they are saying is that they are more saved than others. They commit the sin of pride but don't know it.

 

[Episkopos]

Those that replied are saying that a person born of God does not sin in the flesh. The scriptures never teach this.

To these it is all about man and what he does and they never focus on what Jesus did for sinful man.

They never focus on the power of God that was in Jesus' work on the cross except to say they got something for the flesh.

What they are saying is that they are more saved than others. They commit the sin of pride but don't know it.

Actually the bible says the opposite of what you are saying.

Grace is the power OVER sin....not just a scheme that makes sinning OK.

The power of God is at work IN mortal bodies...just as in Jesus...no difference. Those who deny this power are actually espousing a carnal salvation...which is abomination to God.

God justifies....not men.

 

[Dave L]

Those that replied are saying that a person born of God does not sin in the flesh. The scriptures never teach this.

To these it is all about man and what he does and they never focus on what Jesus did for sinful man.

They never focus on the power of God that was in Jesus' work on the cross except to say they got something for the flesh.

What they are saying is that they are more saved than others. They commit the sin of pride but don't know it.

You are confusing the flesh in Paul's unregenerate state under the law (Romans 7) with the flesh in Paul's regenerate state in Galatians. Two different things altogether.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

The difference between Romans 7 and Romans 8 is the difference between Christ in you....and then us abiding in Christ. When we abide in Him AND He is us we experience the full power of Christ through a spiritual walk in Him.

What so many are taught is that there is no need to seek after an entering into Christ...because you are already saved and the sinning is forgiven from here on in.


But the result of this kind of teaching is a lack of spiritual power in the church...and a lack of life. It makes the church only half-baked.

I'll have to disagree on one important point. The sin in chapter 7 is lawlessness as Paul uses "covet" as an example from the Ten Commandments. You have stated here that the person who continues in sin is still saved. In Galatians 5:19-21 what do you believe not entering into the Kingdom of God means? Some believe hell, some believe merely a lack of rewards as reasoning of OSAS, and the teaching based on that reasoning of those you mentioned who believe they are saved?

 

[Frank Lee]

Thank God for 1John 1:9. The regretful writer of Hebrews employed it.

Hebrews 12:1 KJVS
Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us , and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,

 

[Episkopos]

I'll have to disagree on one important point. The sin in chapter 7 is lawlessness as Paul uses "covet" as an example from the Ten Commandments. You have stated here that the person who continues in sin is still saved. In Galatians 5:19-21 what do you believe not entering into the Kingdom of God means? Some believe hell, some believe merely a lack of rewards as reasoning of OSAS, and the teaching based on that reasoning of those you mentioned who believe they are saved?

I see the bible describing salvation as a process...from a self-interested sinner to a selfless lover of God and others.

What I don't see is a status....since salvation just means you don't die along with the wicked.

I think people are too easily satisfied with escaping death...not realizing the heights we are called to.

So then salvation is really a rescue from the power of sin.

The first step is to learn to love God and His ways...and to have His laws written on our hearts.

But the second step is to enter into Christ. This only happens as you pass through the cross of Christ and the death of all things that get in the way of a full consecration to God.

So then God gives us a certain amount of time to get around to really seeking after Him. He is patient. But He will not strive with us for ever. There comes a time (that only He knows) where God will no longer tolerate a lack of progression in our walks.

But we must be patient with ourselves and with others. Just as God is.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

I see the bible describing salvation as a process...from a self-interested sinner to a selfless lover of God and others.

What I don't see is a status....since salvation just means you don't die along with the wicked.

I think people are too easily satisfied with escaping death...not realizing the heights we are called to.

So then salvation is really a rescue from the power of sin.

The first step is to learn to love God and His ways...and to have His laws written on our hearts.

But the second step is to enter into Christ. This only happens as you pass through the cross of Christ and the death of all things that get in the way of a full consecration to God.

So then God gives us a certain amount of time to get around to really seeking after Him. He is patient. But He will not strive with us for ever. There comes a time (that only He knows) where God will no longer tolerate a lack of progression in our walks.

But we must be patient with ourselves and with others. Just as God is.

I agree with this, I just don't agree that Romans 7 is about a Christian, rather than pre-Christ. Jesus is the answer to Romans 7:23 as stated in Romans 7:24. And Romans 7:25 is answered in Romans 8:9.

What you describe in the former, I see without the baptism of the Holy Spirit. I was like that for the first 30 years of going to church. But after the baptism of the Holy Spirit, my desires and mind completely did an 180 degree turn about, where I no longer wanted to do the things I did the day before. Romans 8:9 also says that those without the Spirit of Christ do not belong to him. So you can imagine how relieved I was knowing I lived long enough to receive the baptism! If I died going to church and living in sin, I would have gone to hell - no question in my mind. But there are those who teach that Jesus died so we wouldn't be punished for the willful sins we keep on committing. Martin Luther brought it to a whole new level - "Sin boldly"

 

[Dave L]

Another way to look at it is, many in church identify with Romans 7 because they are not born again. They battle the flesh with the flesh using nothing but law as their motive. We have a false legalistic gospel today they wield as a substitute for the Ten Commandments.

But in the power of the Holy Spirit, we overcome the flesh and even retrain it to a degree. We seldom sin outwardly, but battle temptation on a daily basis. But like 1stCentury said, we really do not want to sin and seek to avoid it.

 

[Enoch111]

I agree with this, I just don't agree that Romans 7 is about a Christian, rather than pre-Christ.

Once again you are trying to turn Scripture on its head in order to fit in with your false ideas. So let's take a look at Romans 7 to see that you are misrepresenting it:

ROMANS 7 (PAUL SPEAKS OF HIMSELF)

HIS OLD NATURE IS STILL THERE
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

HIS NEW NATURE IS ALSO PRESENT
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

THE FLESH AND THE SPIRIT ARE IN CONFLICT
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

THE FLESH IS CALLED "THE BODY OF DEATH"
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

CHRIST DELIVERS FROM THE LAW OF SIN
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Because of the indwelling Holy Spirit, sin and the flesh (the old sinful Adamic nature) cannot have DOMINION over the child of God. But because the flesh is not eradicated, Christians can and will sin, and must deal with their present sins as explained in the first epistle of John.

 

[Episkopos]

I agree with this, I just don't agree that Romans 7 is about a Christian, rather than pre-Christ. Jesus is the answer to Romans 7:23 as stated in Romans 7:24. And Romans 7:25 is answered in Romans 8:9.

What you describe in the former, I see without the baptism of the Holy Spirit. I was like that for the first 30 years of going to church. But after the baptism of the Holy Spirit, my desires and mind completely did an 180 degree turn about, where I no longer wanted to do the things I did the day before. Romans 8:9 also says that those without the Spirit of Christ do not belong to him. So you can imagine how relieved I was knowing I lived long enough to receive the baptism! If I died going to church and living in sin, I would have gone to hell - no question in my mind. But there are those who teach that Jesus died so we wouldn't be punished for the willful sins we keep on committing. Martin Luther brought it to a whole new level - "Sin boldly"

It really depends on the depth of conversion. I was baptized in the Spirit from the get-go. I walked in supernatural power and light until I couldn't take it anymore.

It is difficult to relay exactly the process as it changes from person to person. All we know is where we are going...hopefully...the full stature of Christ.

If you see Romans 7 as pre-conversion...that's fine. But an awful lot of Christians are stuck there. Are they all pre-conversion?

But as you may know by now...I do see that most believers come unto the fullness of Christ in 2 steps. The first is the regeneration of the spirit in us....so that we receive a heart that cries out Abba Father. Then, the next step is the full entering into Christ whereby it is no longer us but Christ.

And even this is to teach us what pleases the Lord...and what sinks into us until we are as dyed in the wool in our love for God and others...as Jesus is.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

It really depends on the depth of conversion. I was baptized in the Spirit from the get-go. I walked in supernatural power and light until I couldn't take it anymore.

It is difficult to relay exactly the process as it changes from person to person. All we know is where we are going...hopefully...the full stature of Christ.

If you see Romans 7 as pre-conversion...that's fine. But an awful lot of Christians are stuck there. Are they all pre-conversion?

But as you may know by now...I do see that most believers come unto the fullness of Christ in 2 steps. The first is the regeneration of the spirit in us....so that we receive a heart that cries out Abba Father. Then, the next step is the full entering into Christ whereby it is no longer us but Christ.

And even this is to teach us what pleases the Lord...and what sinks into us until we are as dyed in the wool in our love for God and others...as Jesus is.

Show me in scripture where those committing willful sins are saved? Maybe I've missed something.

 

[Enoch111]

Show me in scripture where those committing willful sins are saved? Maybe I've missed something.

1 JOHN 1 (ADDRESSED TO THE CHILDREN OF GOD)
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

All sins are wilful sins for those who know the truth.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

1 JOHN 1 (ADDRESSED TO THE CHILDREN OF GOD)
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

All sins are wilful sins for those who know the truth.

1 John 1 is addressed to John's congregation, not all of which were Christians as some needed to confess their sins of which Christ's blood would cleanse all. Some were still walking in darkness and not saved. 1 John 1:6

The doctrine of the Gnostics was infiltrating the Church and John was having to deal with them.

 

[Episkopos]

Show me in scripture where those committing willful sins are saved? Maybe I've missed something.

Paul says in Romans 7...the sin I would not do...I do. So then that isn't willful sinning. That is sinning through weakness. Also Paul says here...it isn't I who desire to sin but it is the power of sin in my members.


The law of sin!

Now, most Christians i know still sin...

Is that not your experience?

 

[Enoch111]

Some were still walking in darkness and not saved. 1 John 1:6

This is totally false and actually misrepresents what John says. Kindly stop misrepresenting the Word of God, since that too is sin.

ONLY GENUINE CHRISTIANS HAVE FELLOWSHIP WITH OTHER CHRISTIANS AND WITH GOD
That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us...

ONLY GENUINE CHRISTIANS HAVE FULNESS OF JOY
...And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.

GENUINE CHRISTIANS CAN WALK IN DARKNESS (SIN)
If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth... ("we" includes John himself)

GENUINE CHRISTIANS DO WALK IN THE LIGHT ALSO
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another...

JOHN'S "LITTLE CHILDREN" ARE GOD'S LITTLE CHILDREN ALSO
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not...

GOD'S CHILDREN ARE CONTRASTED WITH THE WORLD
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

ONLY CHRISTIANS ARE ADDRESSED AS "BRETHREN"
Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning.

ONLY BORN AGAIN CHRISTIANS ARE GOD'S LITTLE CHILDREN
I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake.

ONLY GENUINE CHRISTIANS "KNOW" CHRIST AND ARE "KNOWN" OF HIM
I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning.

ONLY GENUINE CHRISTIANS CAN OVERCOME THE WICKED ONE
I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one.

So we can go right through John's three epistles and note that he is consistently addressing genuine Christians, regardless of his warning against Gnostics, sinning, or any other spiritual matter.