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Featured Romans 8

Discussion in 'Bible Study Forum' started by CoreIssue, Apr 13, 2019.

  1. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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    It gets a bit tiring to see Calvinists constantly deny or try to misquote Romansos. So a little bit of a study here.

    God knows what we think. God knows how we think. God knows what we want. God knows what we should have.

    He helps us, guides us, teaches us and gives us what we need.

    He does not preprogrammed us to think in a certain way on any topic.

    He does it all for our benefit according to the will and plan of God.
    And here that is reinforced. God works for the good of those who love.

    Love requires free will to choose. A robot programmed to act and respond in certain ways cannot love. It just obeys.

    Notice the love comes before the call.

    Christ died for the sins of every human being that has or ever will live. But the sinner must accept that sacrifice of their own free will.
    Those God foreknew would love him he predestined. Not God predestined some to love him.
    And here's the biggie.

    Those who would love him he predestined. Then he called them not he called them to be predestined.

    Meaning gave them Then he justified them, meaning at this point they had repented and free will by grace and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

    And of course, once born again, at the rapture we will all be glorified.

    Nothing in this allows for Calvinistic predestination.
    Nothing in all of creation can take us from God. OSAS.

    That includes yourself. You are part of creation but nothing in all creation can take you from God's hand.

    We have total free will in choosing or rejecting God. But if we choose God we become his servant, son of God and brother of Christ.

    Nothing in the Bible teaches Calvinism or conditional salvation.

    If you wish to argue against what I said, remember, you can't just post another verse claiming it says something else unless she can reconcile it with Romans 8.
     
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  2. Lady Crosstalk

    Lady Crosstalk Well-Known Member

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    Agreed. One thing that bothers me a great deal about Calvinists is that they often refer to themselves as "Calvinists" rather than Christians. For those who have delved into Calvin's life, you know that he certainly did not resemble Christ. In the same way, RCs will often call themselves "Catholics" and will even denigrate "Christians" (meaning non-Catholics). That was certainly a head-scratcher when I first saw it on a Christian discussion forum. I would never call myself anything but "Christian" because that is who I follow--Christ. Not Luther, not the RCC, not Calvin, not the Anglicans...just Christ.
     
  3. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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    Calvinism is a cult at DuckDuckGo
    Catholicism..A Cult? (Dave Hunt)
     
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  4. ScottA

    ScottA Well-Known Member

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    If one looks only to what is written, that is what they will see. But only if we look also to the Author, will we see the correct context.

    If we read the works of any number of authors, there is a context within the story they have written, but a different context for the author in which it was written. If he writes of his times in Africa, while in his pajamas, the context is not the same. Likewise, the context for God writing what is written, is different than the context of what He has written. The one is real, and the other is "created."

    Thus, we can either seek to view what God has written, as He has...or as men do. Or not. But for those who aspire to become less of this world, and more of God, as One, we have no choice but to press on to that perfection.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2019
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  5. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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    Correct me if I'm wrong, but you speak through an SDA filter I believe.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2019
  6. Lady Crosstalk

    Lady Crosstalk Well-Known Member

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    Not trying to be rude but :confused:o_O
     
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  7. ScottA

    ScottA Well-Known Member

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    You believe wrong of me. No filter.
     
  8. Lady Crosstalk

    Lady Crosstalk Well-Known Member

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    What you said about the love coming first, reminded me of sitting in a Sunday School class as a very young child. I remember looking up at a famous portrait of Jesus with the little children and thinking how much I loved Him.
     
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  9. ScottA

    ScottA Well-Known Member

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    What I have described is the contrast between viewing all things from a self-centered perspective, or viewing things as God views them. On a topic such as this, self-centered just doesn't work.

    If that seem strange or foreign, it is the measure of where you are with your thinking, and a sign the there has been very little if any "renewing of your mind."
     
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  10. Lady Crosstalk

    Lady Crosstalk Well-Known Member

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    In spite of your accusation, I would say that there has been a great deal of "renewing" of my mind since coming to faith, as those who know me best would be likely to attest. I think I was simply reacting to your seeming lack of engagement with the topic at hand and a fair bit of vagueness.
     
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  11. ScottA

    ScottA Well-Known Member

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    Fair enough. But I wasn't intending to speak of you personally, but rather the position of so many who find it strange to turn from our own center to that of God's. But, then again, it was you who made faces...so, I didn't want to ignore you. :)

    But I digress...it was really just an opportunity to explain that the focus of this topic, is the problem.
     
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  12. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member

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    All of your misunderstanding ends with you robbing God of his glory in salvation and giving it to yourself. Denying God's grace like the false teachers in Peter.
     
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  13. ScottA

    ScottA Well-Known Member

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    Predestination is simply God's provision for understanding that all that is, is written, but written in His context, not ours.

    Just as we do not fight against flesh and blood, but against powers on high, we do not actually exist within time, but within eternity. But if we take the rabbit trail of religious liberty to interpret what is written and breath our own life into the things of this fallen world, then we will imagine all manner of error. We will imagine that the world is the context, instead of it being our classroom. That the things learned here were not written for us to understand the ways of God, but rather that we should understand the ways of the world. That God exists for the glory of the world, instead of the world existing for the glory of God. That there is no end to these times, and that we can just continue within this worldly way of thinking and not renew our mind according to the eternal nature of God.

    But, no, we are indeed intended to press on unto the perfection that is of God and not of men and of the world. We are to "follow" the same course plotted by Christ...which ended not with the full knowledge of what makes the world tick, but of God; and Him committing not His natural body to the Father, but only His spirit. It is that spirit of God that gives us Oneness with both the Father and the Son. It is to be our future. Yes, we also share in the physical nature with Christ, and yet we are to lay down that life, that we too might pick it up again...just as He did, entering the spiritual glory of the Father for eternity.

    Thus, predestination was simply an elementary explanation given at the midway point of God's greater revelation, and for that time only. It's not a lifestyle, nor is it the whole truth.
     
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  14. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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    You just love false doctrine.
     
  15. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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    Say what you will, but it doesn't change what the verses say.
     
  16. ScottA

    ScottA Well-Known Member

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    Okay...and what about the verses that say to press on to perfection and leave behind the elementary principles of Christ? Not convinced, not interested?
     
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  17. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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    Post the verses.
     
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  18. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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    Well, as expected, the Calvinist responses have totally failed to address Romans 8.

    Why? Because they have no answers.
     
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  19. ScottA

    ScottA Well-Known Member

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    I did...just not with training wheels.
     
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  20. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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    You keep posting your opinions and calling them verses.
     
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