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Russian-Ukraine War: The West's Fault

Discussion in 'Current Events Forum' started by Hidden In Him, Feb 25, 2022.

  1. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member

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    I got completely tired of the mindless drivel coming from Western media outlets, including the worthless BBC, so I decided to go searching for some semblance of an accurate analysis of what is actually going on in the Ukraine and why. Found this. Thought it was worth posting for those not yet so brainwashed that they can still think for themselves. Written eight years ago, and more accurate than anything you will ever hear anyone in the controlled media give you these days on the subject:

    It's not Russia that's pushed Ukraine to the brink of war
    Seumas Milne

    The attempt to lever Kiev into the western camp by ousting an elected leader made conflict certain. It could be a threat to us all. The reality is that after two decades of Nato expansion, this crisis was triggered by the west's attempt to pull Ukraine decisively into its orbit.

    The threat of war in Ukraine is growing. As the unelected government in Kiev declares itself unable to control the rebellion in the country's east, John Kerry brands Russia a rogue state. The US and the European Union step up sanctions against the Kremlin, accusing it of destabilising Ukraine. The White House is reported to be set on a new cold war policy with the aim of turning Russia into a "pariah state".

    That might be more explicable if what is going on in eastern Ukraine now were not the mirror image of what took place in Kiev a couple of months ago. Then, it was armed protesters in Maidan Square seizing government buildings and demanding a change of government and constitution. US and European leaders championed the "masked militants" and denounced the elected government for its crackdown, just as they now back the unelected government's use of force against rebels occupying police stations and town halls in cities such as Slavyansk and Donetsk.

    "America is with you," Senator John McCain told demonstrators then, standing shoulder to shoulder with the leader of the far-right Svoboda party as the US ambassador haggled with the state department over who would make up the new Ukrainian government.

    When the Ukrainian president was replaced by a US-selected administration, in an entirely unconstitutional takeover, politicians such as William Hague brazenly misled parliament about the legality of what had taken place: the imposition of a pro-western government on Russia's most neuralgic and politically divided neighbour.

    Putin bit back, taking a leaf out of the US street-protest playbook – even though, as in Kiev, the protests that spread from Crimea to eastern Ukraine evidently have mass support. But what had been a glorious cry for freedom in Kiev became infiltration and insatiable aggression in Sevastopol and Luhansk.

    After Crimeans voted overwhelmingly to join Russia, the bulk of the western media abandoned any hint of even-handed coverage. So Putin is now routinely compared to Hitler, while the role of the fascistic right on the streets and in the new Ukrainian regime has been airbrushed out of most reporting as Putinist propaganda.

    So you don't hear much about the Ukrainian government's veneration of wartime Nazi collaborators and pogromists, or the arson attacks on the homes and offices of elected communist leaders, or the integration of the extreme Right Sector into the national guard, while the anti-semitism and white supremacism of the government's ultra-nationalists is assiduously played down, and false identifications of Russian special forces are relayed as fact.

    The reality is that, after two decades of eastward Nato expansion, this crisis was triggered by the west's attempt to pull Ukraine decisively into its orbit and defence structure, via an explicitly anti-Moscow EU association agreement. Its rejection led to the Maidan protests and the installation of an anti-Russian administration – rejected by half the country – that went on to sign the EU and International Monetary Fund agreements regardless.

    No Russian government could have acquiesced in such a threat from territory that was at the heart of both Russia and the Soviet Union. Putin's absorption of Crimea and support for the rebellion in eastern Ukraine is clearly defensive, and the red line now drawn: the east of Ukraine, at least, is not going to be swallowed up by Nato or the EU.

    But the dangers are also multiplying. Ukraine has shown itself to be barely a functioning state: the former government was unable to clear Maidan, and the western-backed regime is "helpless" against the protests in the Soviet-nostalgic industrial east. For all the talk about the paramilitary "green men" (who turn out to be overwhelmingly Ukrainian), the rebellion also has strong social and democratic demands: who would argue against a referendum on autonomy and elected governors?

    Meanwhile, the US and its European allies impose sanctions and dictate terms to Russia and its proteges in Kiev, encouraging the military crackdown on protesters after visits from Joe Biden and the CIA director, John Brennan. But by what right is the US involved at all, incorporating under its strategic umbrella a state that has never been a member of Nato, and whose last elected government came to power on a platform of explicit neutrality? It has none, of course – which is why the Ukraine crisis is seen in such a different light across most of the world. There may be few global takers for Putin's oligarchic conservatism and nationalism, but Russia's counterweight to US imperial expansion is welcomed, from China to Brazil.

    In fact, one outcome of the crisis is likely to be a closer alliance between China and Russia, as the US continues its anti-Chinese "pivot" to Asia. And despite growing violence, the cost in lives of Russia's arms-length involvement in Ukraine has so far been minimal compared with any significant western intervention you care to think of for decades.

    The risk of civil war is nevertheless growing, and with it the chances of outside powers being drawn into the conflict. Barack Obama has already sent token forces to eastern Europe and is under pressure, both from Republicans and Nato hawks such as Poland, to send many more. Both US and British troops are due to take part in Nato military exercises in Ukraine this summer.

    The US and EU have already overplayed their hand in Ukraine. Neither Russia nor the western powers may want to intervene directly, and the Ukrainian prime minister's conjuring up of a third world war presumably isn't authorised by his Washington sponsors. But a century after 1914, the risk of unintended consequences should be obvious enough – as the threat of a return of big-power conflict grows. Pressure for a negotiated end to the crisis is essential.
    It's not Russia that's pushed Ukraine to the brink of war | Seumas Milne
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2022
  2. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member

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    A note of interest, the above statement has proven out to be accurate as well. China is the one nation that has not categorically condemned the Russian attacks.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2022
  3. devin553344

    devin553344 Well-Known Member

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    I think a lot of people see that the US is at least partially responsible for the tensions and thus conflict in Ukraine. The only question is when will the US stop and will they be able to de-escalate the war and bring peace before a nuclear deterrent is used. The news has not been fun to watch, as they are promoting the worst scenarios. And Biden is considering to intervene in Ukraine. I'm concerned he's going to get us all killed really.

    With all this trouble I'm trying not to get into that much and focus on God. Maybe Jesus will return and stop it before it goes nuclear?
     
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  4. Scott Downey

    Scott Downey Well-Known Member

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    Cristo Rei and Reggie Belafonte like this.
  5. Scott Downey

    Scott Downey Well-Known Member

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    NATO Secretary General Warns Russia of ‘Article 5’ Counter Attack (theepochtimes.com)

    Says if Russia-Ukrainian warfare 'spills over' into a NATO country Nato will counterattack the Russians.
    A qualifying Russian spill over includes a cyber-attack on a NATO member. Such an excuse gives NATO the authorization to go to war with Russia. Russia has warned NATO any interference in Ukraine may start a nuclear war.

    Jens Stoltenberg, the Secretary General of NATO, has warned Russia that if Moscow’s attack against Ukraine spills over into other European nations who are member states of NATO, it will force the intergovernmental military alliance to take counteraction.

    “For NATO Allies, we provide the absolute security guarantees under the Washington Treaty Article 5. An attack on one will be regarded as an attack on all,” Stoltenberg said in a Feb. 25 press conference.

    “And we are clear on this distinction because it is important to make sure that we don’t have an even bigger crisis in Europe where Russia challenge, or is threatening, or attacking any NATO allied country.”

    Cyber attacks on NATO nations can also trigger Article 5, Stoltenberg stated. NATO is presently focused on “strengthening our cyber defenses” and providing support to Ukraine, he added.
     
  6. Scott Downey

    Scott Downey Well-Known Member

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    “Whoever tries to hinder us, and even more so, to create threats to our country, to our people, should know that Russia’s response will be immediate,” Putin said, growing increasingly agitated. “It will lead you to such consequences that you have never encountered in your history.” “I hope,” he concluded, “that I will be heard.”
     
  7. Scott Downey

    Scott Downey Well-Known Member

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  8. kcnalp

    kcnalp Well-Known Member

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    How about World Government?

    Revelation 13:7 (NASB)
    7 It was also given to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them, and authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation was given to him.
     
  9. Scott Downey

    Scott Downey Well-Known Member

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  10. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member

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    Nah. God is always in control, not man. I never worry for a second about nuclear war no matter who's involved. Nukes will be used by the Muslims on the city of Rome one day according to the Book of Revelations, but that day is still a long ways off in the future. The Islamic Caliphate hasn't even been established on earth yet.

    But even in a worst case scenario, the Russians would only use small scale nuclear weapons on the battlefield. Putin is getting older, but he's not nuts yet. What he is likely doing now is "escalating in order to de-escalate," as I heard someone put it. I'm guessing the Russians want out of this nightmare anyway they can get it, but they're hoping they can at least get a peace agreement on favorable terms if possible. They completely over-reached, and it's dawning on them now just how badly. Their only hope is to sue for peace from a position of "strength" while they still supposedly have it, or Putin's regime is over with. It may be over with anyway.
     
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  11. Scott Downey

    Scott Downey Well-Known Member

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    I dont think Russia wants out of Ukrainian politics, they want a regime change.
    They painted a big white Z on their equipment, which stands for Zelenskyy, he is the target.
    The Russian government wants the Ukranian government to fall, that is the goal.
    Obviously they don't like NATO on their doorstep.
    That is a flash point, Will be best Europe and US not pushing NATO membership onto Russian borders.

    We did not like Cuba having Russian missiles a few miles away from the US either. I can't blame Russians for feeling the same way about that.
    We almost had a nuclear war back then over it. And frankly our countries stance is hypocritical referring to the same.

    One reason Japan attacked the USA in WW2 was over the hardships the US government was placing on Japan at the time. Russia has been squeezed for years by the US and Europe. We have been playing the bully against them. Eventually the one being bullied does something about that.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2022
  12. Mayflower

    Mayflower Well-Known Member

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    If this has nothing to do with this, just ignore it. I dreamed this the other night.

    There were little cartoon girls and little boys, in real like settings. It was a huge building with an upstairs and downstairs. The little girls' area was downstairs and was all forest/woods. Upstairs looked more like a military base. The boys were up there. They had this long box in the middle of their play area with a lot of missiles inside. They were taking the missiles out and bombing the girls' play area. The girls were smart though. They had this flat looking drone and sent it carrying a missile up the stairs. It seemed to be invisible to the boys. The drone dropped a missile the same size, into the box of missiles, and the entire play area exploded upstairs. One of the boys looked seared, but was excited/happily telling what looked like the leader of the girls downstairs about it.
     
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  13. Scott Downey

    Scott Downey Well-Known Member

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    LOL, my wife had a dream about Ukraine war. Perry Mason was trying to get into the country to help... but he was not allowed to enter.
     
  14. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member

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    Always with the kids, LoL. :p

    But you know what? If it's about what it appears to be, this dream is very interesting, and could reveal what's REALLY been going on with this "war." Analysts have have been marveling at how poorly thought out the Russian attack was from a military, logistical and tactical standpoint. They're normally very well-thought out in their military strategizing, but this thing is all over the place. They've attacked from four different directions, which is exceedingly complex to support logistically, and it seems to make no sense militarily, UNLESS it was actually all a "play" for dramatic effect to psych the Ukranians into capitulating within a few days, fleeing in panic because they were being attacked from all sides. The Russians are absolute masters at playing head games with people, and that includes militarily.

    But a massive psychological play would have been a logical plan for Putin if he were trying to conquer the Ukraine without much of a fight, like he did with Krimea, wanting to annex it without reducing it to rubble. And as is apparent, Putin still doesn't want to do that, or he'd already have entered the cities en force days ago. But the Ukranians and the Ukranian government didn't fall for the bluff, and now the whole plan is blowing up in the Russian's face in every direction.

    So it's very interesting. Boys are generally bullies over girls, and that is what the Russians were trying to do here is psychologically bully them into capitulation. But the thing that appears to really be working against them is intelligence. I think the Russians got suckered into this, quite frankly, and the real smart hand is being played by the West, and has been through superior intelligence all along. Look at how all the measures the West has been taking are all unprecedented and coordinated... NATO is suddenly unified like it hasn't been in decades, and sending serious military aide and leveling very serious economic sanction at Russia that will just destroy Putin's regime, and I think that may have been the plan all along. INTELLIGENCE has been the story of this "war," and it is all operating on the side of the West. They are in fact even using drones to scope out the Russians columns advancing on Kiev, btw....

    The boy reporting happily to the "girls" what happened could represent a spy embedded in Russian intelligence, who made sure the Russians were blind to what was really going to happen until the "war" actually started playing out.

    I'm still looking at it, but this makes sense of a LOT of what has actually happened. The "bullies" just got suckered really badly, and they now have their pants down around their ankles with virtually no good options left to take, militarily, diplomatically, nothing. They just got "played."
     
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  15. Scott Downey

    Scott Downey Well-Known Member

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    Fox News is really stirring the pot against Putin, some talking heads and interviewees are calling Putin old and crazy and about to launch his nukes, like he is some kind of Bond villain, picture on their site posting as a developing story
    US tells all US citizens to evacuate Ukraine immediately
    Fox News

    upload_2022-2-27_16-24-44.png
     
  16. Mayflower

    Mayflower Well-Known Member

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    I had a sense this had to do with Ukraine.
     
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  17. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member

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    Well he isn't happy, I can promise you that, LoL.

    If my analysis is correct, it is indeed a little spooky. Even if he had no intention of threatening nuclear war before, I can't imagine he's too pleased with the situation now. But they may be so screwed up behind the scenes right now that they don't even know who they can trust in their own government, so it will take them a while just figuring out what their next moves are. And that appears to be the tenor of the entire Russian operation at this point, which all more suggests they got their bluff called, and now they got nothin.' They are lost.
    Exactly. Another part of their psychological warfare that backfired on them.
    I agree. For us to defend ourselves is perfectly understandable. For the Russians to was a sin. The Russians are not saints, but they are not the worst evil on the planet. The Satanist globalists who are constantly pulling strings behind the scenes ARE, and we are witnessing them taking out one of their last real threats to their world domination now.

    And you know what happens when Russia starts to wane as a world power? It's going to leave a power vacuum that ISLAM is going to start to fill. Russia is/ was largely a Christian nation (Eastern Orthodox) - more Christian now in many ways than America is - and their downfall will now mean the rise of those who HATE Christianity with a passion, and want to see it removed from the planet.

    Like I said in another thread, Satan knows exactly what he's doing. It's all really sad in a way, but so be it. In the end, the King of kings is going to return and no amount of intelligence will outsmart Him, and no power on earth will deter Him. Then we'll see who the smart ones really were.
     
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  18. Scott Downey

    Scott Downey Well-Known Member

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    Yes in many ways Russia and Putin too are more Christian than say Biden and our deep state, government leadership.
    We all see how ungodliness is spreading like a disease among the US people. And it is surely terminal. They are antiChrist in about everything they think and do.

    Isaiah 5 and impending judgement

    8 Woe to those who join house to house;
    They add field to field,
    Till there is no place
    Where they may dwell alone in the midst of the land!
    9 In my hearing the Lord of hosts said,
    “Truly, many houses shall be desolate,
    Great and beautiful ones, without inhabitant.
    10 For ten acres of vineyard shall yield one bath,
    And a homer of seed shall yield one ephah.”

    11 Woe to those who rise early in the morning,
    That they may follow intoxicating drink;
    Who continue until night, till wine inflames them!
    12 The harp and the strings,
    The tambourine and flute,
    And wine are in their feasts;
    But they do not regard the work of the Lord,
    Nor consider the operation of His hands.

    13 Therefore my people have gone into captivity,
    Because they have no knowledge;
    Their honorable men are famished,
    And their multitude dried up with thirst.
    14 Therefore Sheol has enlarged itself
    And opened its mouth beyond measure;
    Their glory and their multitude and their pomp,
    And he who is jubilant, shall descend into it.
    15 People shall be brought down,
    Each man shall be humbled,
    And the eyes of the lofty shall be humbled.
    16 But the Lord of hosts shall be exalted in judgment,
    And God who is holy shall be hallowed in righteousness.
    17 Then the lambs shall feed in their pasture,
    And in the waste places of the fat ones strangers shall eat.

    18 Woe to those who draw iniquity with cords of vanity,
    And sin as if with a cart rope;
    19 That say, “Let Him make speed and hasten His work,
    That we may see it;
    And let the counsel of the Holy One of Israel draw near and come,
    That we may know it.

    20 Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil;
    Who put darkness for light, and light for darkness;
    Who put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

    21 Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes,
    And prudent in their own sight!

    22 Woe to men mighty at drinking wine,
    Woe to men valiant for mixing intoxicating drink,
    23 Who justify the wicked for a bribe,
    And take away justice from the righteous man!

    24 Therefore, as the fire devours the stubble,
    And the flame consumes the chaff,
    So their root will be as rottenness,
    And their blossom will ascend like dust;
    Because they have rejected the law of the Lord of hosts,
    And despised the word of the Holy One of Israel.
    25 Therefore the anger of the Lord is aroused against His people;
    He has stretched out His hand against them
    And stricken them,
    And the hills trembled.
    Their carcasses were as refuse in the midst of the streets.

    For all this His anger is not turned away,
    But His hand is stretched out still.
     
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  19. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    What kind of a stupid headline is this? Who marched into Ukraine a few days ago? To make Russia the victim is about as stupid as it gets.
     
  20. Jim B

    Jim B Well-Known Member

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    I stopped reading at "I got completely tired of the mindless drivel coming from Western media outlets, including the worthless BBC, so I decided to go searching for some semblance of an accurate analysis of what is actually going on in the Ukraine and why."

    Why should anyone accept your opinion (which is all that it is) and the accompanying biased article? I too get completely tired of the mindless drivel coming from biased sources.
     
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