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Salvation depends on

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by Beano, Mar 10, 2008.

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  1. Beano

    Beano New Member

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    I found this statement of salvation and was wondering what people thought of it."We believe that continuance in a state of salvation depends upon continued obedient faith in Christ."I agree that we should be continually obedient in faith to Christ but I don't actually agree with the statement because it implies (to me ) that you can get unsaved. If anyone has any thoughts I'd love to here them.Kevin
     
  2. Jon-Marc

    Jon-Marc New Member

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    (Beano;40059)
    I found this statement of salvation and was wondering what people thought of it."We believe that continuance in a state of salvation depends upon continued obedient faith in Christ."I agree that we should be continually obedient in faith to Christ but I don't actually agree with the statement because it implies (to me ) that you can get unsaved. If anyone has any thoughts I'd love to here them.Kevin
    I agree. When I was saved, I was given ETERNAL life--not temporary life. Our salvation doesn't depend on anything we do--other than repent and believe in Jesus Christ. If we are saved then we will WANT to live a holy life. Unfortunately, we will fail at times, but God will always forgive if we repent. If we don't repent of sin we commit AFTER we're saved we won't lose our salvation, but we will lose blessings and fellowship with our Saviour.
     
  3. crooner

    crooner New Member

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    Yes we are saved for past present and future sins. Even our rightousness is filthy rags.Since the fall of Adam and Eve we live in a sinful world. Our minds and flesh thinks sinful thoughts all the time because of all influences that are out there.We are all sinners. Isnt it great that Jesus bore all the sins of the world so retched people like me can be guarenteed eternal life. Thats the most important message
     
  4. DrBubbaLove

    DrBubbaLove New Member

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    The Didache"Watch for your life’s sake. Let not your lamps be quenched, nor your loins unloosed; but be ready, for you know not the hour in which our Lord comes. But you shall assemble together often, seeking the things which are befitting to your souls: for the whole time of your faith will not profit you, if you be not made complete in the last time" (Didache 16 [A.D. 70]). Hermas"And as many of them . . . as have repented, shall have their dwelling in the tower [i.e., the Church]. And those of them who have been slower in repenting shall dwell within the walls. And as many as do not repent at all, but abide in their deeds, shall utterly perish. . . . But if any one relapse into strife, he will be cast out of the tower, and will lose his life. Life is the possession of all who keep the commandments of the Lord" (The Shepherd 3:8:7 [A.D. 80]). Ignatius of Antioch"And pray without ceasing in behalf of other men; for there is hope of the repentance, that they may attain to God. For cannot he that falls arise again, and he may attain to God?" (Letter to the Ephesians 10 [A.D. 110]). Justin Martyr"[E]ternal fire was prepared for him who voluntarily departed from God and for all who, without repentance, persevere in apostasy" (fragment in Irenaeus, Against Heresies 5:26 [A.D. 156]). Irenaeus"[T]o Christ Jesus, our Lord, and God, and Savior, and King, according to the will of the invisible Father, ‘every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things on earth, and things under the earth, and that every tongue should confess’ [Phil. 2:10–11] to him, and that he should execute just judgment towards all. . . . [T]he ungodly and unrighteous and wicked and profane among men [shall go] into everlasting fire; but [he] may, in the exercise of his grace, confer immortality on the righteous, and holy, and those who have kept his commandments, and have persevered in his love, some from the beginning [of their Christian course], and others from [the date of] their penance, and may surround them with everlasting glory" (Against Heresies 1:10:1 [A.D. 189]). Tertullian"[Regarding confession, some] flee from this work as being an exposure of themselves, or they put it off from day to day. I presume they are more mindful of modesty than of salvation, like those who contract a disease in the more shameful parts of the body and shun making themselves known to the physicians; and thus they perish along with their own bashfulness" (Repentance 10:1 [A.D. 203]). "Discipline governs a man, power sets a seal upon him; apart from the fact that power is the Spirit, but the Spirit is God. What, moreover, used [the Spirit] to teach? That there must be no communicating with the works of darkness. Observe what he bids. Who, moreover, was able to forgive sins? This is his alone prerogative: for ‘who remits sins but God alone?’ and, of course, [who but he can remit] mortal sins, such as have been committed against himself and against his temple?" (Modesty 21 [A.D. 220]). Cyprian of Carthage"Of how much greater faith and salutary fear are they who . . . confess their sins to the priests of God in a straightforward manner and in sorrow, making an open declaration of conscience. . . . I beseech you, brethren, let everyone who has sinned confess his sin while he is still in this world, while his confession is still admissible, while the satisfaction and remission made through the priests are still pleasing before the Lord" (The Lapsed 28 [A.D. 251]). Basil the Great"The clergyman who is deposed for mortal sin shall not be excommunicated" (Canonical Letter, canon 32 [A.D. 374]). Pacian of Barcelona"Stinginess is remedied by generosity, insult by apology, perversity by honesty, and for whatever else, amends can be made by practice of the opposite. But what can he do who is contemptuous of God? What shall the murderer do? What remedy shall the fornicator find? . . . These are capital sins, brethren, these are mortal. Someone may say: ‘Are we then about to perish? . . . Are we to die in our sins?’ . . . I appeal first to you brethren who refuse penance for your acknowledged crimes. You, I say, who are timid after your impudence, who are bashful after your sins, who are not ashamed to sin but now are ashamed to confess" (Sermon Exhorting to Penance 4 [A.D. 385]). Jerome"There are venial sins and there are mortal sins. It is one thing to owe ten thousand talents, another to owe but a farthing. We shall have to give an accounting for an idle word no less than for adultery. But to be made to blush and to be tortured are not the same thing; not the same thing to grow red in the face and to be in agony for a long time. . . . If we entreat for lesser sins we are granted pardon, but for greater sins, it is difficult to obtain our request. There is a great difference between one sin and another" (Against Jovinian 2:30 [A.D. 393]). Augustine"[N]othing could have been devised more likely to instruct and benefit the pious reader of sacred Scripture than that, besides describing praiseworthy characters as examples, and blameworthy characters as warnings, it should also narrate cases where good men have gone back and fallen into evil, whether they are restored to the right path or continue irreclaimable; and also where bad men have changed, and have attained to goodness, whether they persevere in it or relapse into evil; in order that the righteous may be not lifted up in the pride of security, nor the wicked hardened in despair of cure" (Against Faustus 22:96 [A.D. 400]). http://www.catholic.com/library/Mortal_Sin.asp
     
  5. Catholic Crusader

    Catholic Crusader New Member

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    (Beano;40059)
    I found this statement of salvation and was wondering what people thought of it."We believe that continuance in a state of salvation depends upon continued obedient faith in Christ."I agree that we should be continually obedient in faith to Christ but I don't actually agree with the statement because it implies (to me ) that you can get unsaved. If anyone has any thoughts I'd love to here them. Kevin
    Some people promote a very attractive idea: All true Christians, regardless of how they live, have an absolute assurance of salvation, once they accept Jesus into their hearts as "their personal Lord and Savior." The problem is that this belief is contrary to the Bible & constant Christian teaching. Recall this Scripture: "If we have died with him [in baptism; see Rom. 6:3-4] we shall also live with him; if we persevere we shall also reign with him" (2 Tim. 2:11-12). So, ff we do NOT persevere, we shall NOT reign with him. In other words, Christians can forfeit heaven. Jesus tells us, "He who endures to the end will be saved" (Matt. 24:13; cf. 25:31-46). Ergo, if you do not endure to the end, well........The Bible makes it clear that Christians have a moral assurance of salvation (God will be true to his word and will grant salvation to those who have faith in Christ and are obedient to him [1 John 3:19-24]), but the Bible does NOT teach that Christians have a guarantee of heaven. There can be no absolute assurance of salvation. The Bible says, "See, then, the kindness and severity of God: severity toward those who fell, but God's kindness to you, provided you remain in his kindness, otherwise you too will be cut off" (Rom. 11:22-23; Matt. 18:21-35, 1 Cor. 15:1-2, 2 Pet. 2:20-21). Note that this includes an important condition: "provided you remain in his kindness." It is saying that Christians can lose their salvation by throwing it away. He warns, "Whoever thinks he is standing secure should take care not to fall" (1 Cor. 10:11-12). , Paul admitted that even he could fall away: "I pummel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified" (1 Cor. 9:27). In saying this he points out that even he cannot be infallibly sure of his own present state or of his future salvation.As a Catholic, when someone asks me if I have been "saved," I answer: "I am redeemed by the blood of Christ, I trust in him alone for my salvation, and, as the Bible teaches, I am working out my salvation in fear and trembling (Phil. 2:12), knowing that it is God's gift of grace that is working in me."
     
  6. DrBubbaLove

    DrBubbaLove New Member

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    Thanks Crusader,good quotes, am not sure if it is a forum rule but think they insist on using KJV only here, though it does not appear to change the particular verses you mention. Just thought I would mention it to you, their sandbox and all.
     
  7. haanne

    haanne New Member

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    (Beano;40059)
    I found this statement of salvation and was wondering what people thought of it."We believe that continuance in a state of salvation depends upon continued obedient faith in Christ."I agree that we should be continually obedient in faith to Christ but I don't actually agree with the statement because it implies (to me ) that you can get unsaved. If anyone has any thoughts I'd love to here them.Kevin
    We can get un-saved because we arent saved until the day comes. When we find Jesus we have the promise of salvation. colssians1:21-23 1Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of£ your evil behavior. 22But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation—23if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become
     
  8. Catholic Crusader

    Catholic Crusader New Member

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    (haanne;40394)
    We can get un-saved because we arent saved until the day comes. When we find Jesus we have the promise of salvation......
    Well put. Very true.
     
  9. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    (DrBubbaLove;40391)
    Thanks Crusader,good quotes, am not sure if it is a forum rule but think they insist on using KJV only here, though it does not appear to change the particular verses you mention. Just thought I would mention it to you, their sandbox and all.
    We don't insist on anyone using KJV we insist its the best and most accurate and can easily be converted to Hebrew or Greek with a Strongs concordance if one has an easier time with another version fine. What we do not recognize as the Word of God are Books outside the Bible though they are great second witness' or can often shed more light on a subject.
     
  10. Catholic Crusader

    Catholic Crusader New Member

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    (kriss;40418)
    ....What we do not recognize as the Word of God are Books outside the Bible though they are great second witness' or can often shed more light on a subject.
    I agree. Only the 72 inspired books of the Bible are true scripture.
     
  11. lilithb

    lilithb New Member

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    The Bible doesn’t say “once saved, always saved,” but it tells us that salvation is a gift. And therefore, if it is a gift that God gives, it would have to be a gift that God would have to take back. And what would cause Him to take it back? He saved you when you were a lost sinner. Why would He take away your salvation because you fall or stumble or make a mistake or sin?He’s not going to take your salvation back. He is a giver and He doesn’t take His gifts back. In fact, the Bible says in Romans 11 that “The gifts of God are without repentance.” They’re irrevocable. God doesn’t take His gifts back. And one of those gifts is salvation. And that Scripture is the proof that He won’t take your salvation away from you, because it is a free gift.
     
  12. Shan Missions

    Shan Missions New Member

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    (Jon-Marc;40075)
    I agree. When I was saved, I was given ETERNAL life--not temporary life. Our salvation doesn't depend on anything we do--other than repent and believe in Jesus Christ. If we are saved then we will WANT to live a holy life. Unfortunately, we will fail at times, but God will always forgive if we repent. If we don't repent of sin we commit AFTER we're saved we won't lose our salvation, but we will lose blessings and fellowship with our Saviour.
    I don't agree. There are some people who said that they believed Jesus Christ and took water baptism and became members of the church. But later thet committed sins again and again and even worshiped other gods and finally died in sins. How can such people go to heaven? Matthew 7:21-29 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23 Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!' NIV
     
  13. forgivenWretch

    forgivenWretch New Member

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    You are here: God >> Once Saved, Always Saved Once Saved, Always Saved – The Biblical EvidenceThe Bible teaches “once saved, always saved” -- that we can be saved once and for all only through a repentant, saving faith in Jesus Christ. Once a person has accepted Christ as Savior, they may wonder if it is possible to lose that salvation. What if they commit a sin? What if they commit a lot of sins? What if they do something very, very wrong? Is it possible to be saved, and then lose that salvation? Fortunately, the answer is a resounding “no.” Once a person has accepted Jesus Christ as Savior, he/she is forever saved. This fact is referred to as the doctrine of “eternal security,” often summarized as “once saved, always saved.”[url="http://www.allaboutgod.com/once-saved-always-saved.htm]http://www.allaboutgod.com/once-saved-always-saved.htm[/url]Christ [on the cross], died for our sins {sin(s)/plural-past present and future, so that we may have eternal life. And does eternal not mean forever?
     
  14. forgivenWretch

    forgivenWretch New Member

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    (Shan Missions;40673)
    I don't agree. There are some people who said that they believed Jesus Christ and took water baptism and became members of the church. But later thet committed sins again and again and even worshiped other gods and finally died in sins. How can such people go to heaven? Matthew 7:21-29 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23 Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!' NIV
    People say a lot of things, but that does not make them so. . You really ansewered your own question.
     
  15. Jackie D

    Jackie D New Member

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    (Shan Missions;40673)
    I don't agree. There are some people who said that they believed Jesus Christ and took water baptism and became members of the church. But later thet committed sins again and again and even worshiped other gods and finally died in sins. How can such people go to heaven? Matthew 7:21-29 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23 Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!' NIV
    aye and let us not forget Romans 11Rom 11:11 I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their fall, to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles. Rom 11:12 Now if their fall is riches for the world, and their failure riches for the Gentiles, how much more their fullness! Rom 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles; inasmuch as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry, Rom 11:14 if by any means I may provoke to jealousy those who are my flesh and save some of them. Rom 11:15 For if their being cast away is the reconciling of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead? Rom 11:16 For if the firstfruit is holy, the lump is also holy; and if the root is holy, so are the branches. Rom 11:17 And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree, Rom 11:18 do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you. Rom 11:19 You will say then, "Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in." Rom 11:20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. Rom 11:21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. our security lies in Christ alone. though He would that none should perish and we have been given the free gift of Salvation we are yet only a branch and the branch that does not produce good fruit will be cut off and cast into the fire....
     
  16. Beano

    Beano New Member

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    lilithb wrote
    He’s not going to take your salvation back. He is a giver and He doesn’t take His gifts back. In fact, the Bible says in Romans 11 that “The gifts of God are without repentance.” They’re irrevocable. God doesn’t take His gifts back. And one of those gifts is salvation. And that Scripture is the proof that He won’t take your salvation away from you, because it is a free gift.
    I have always been of this way thinking BUT I'm not so sure at the moment. my reasoning is this. The gifts of God are without repentance but that dosn't mean I can't throw it away. I may of accepted Gods Gift of salvation and been living in the promise for years but if I suddenly decide that Christianty is'nt the way for me and choose another direction lets say satanism (for emphasis only) then surly I have given up my salvation. It's not that God unsaves me but that I have rejected this Gift. If I stop believing my branch will be cut out BUT the Gift of Salvation is always there for me to take up again as long as I meet the Scriptural Criteria In which case God will graft me back in.Does this make sense.
     
  17. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    (forgivenWretch;40684)
    You are here: God >> Once Saved, Always Saved Once Saved, Always Saved – The Biblical EvidenceThe Bible teaches “once saved, always saved” -- that we can be saved once and for all only through a repentant, saving faith in Jesus Christ. Once a person has accepted Christ as Savior, they may wonder if it is possible to lose that salvation. What if they commit a sin? What if they commit a lot of sins? What if they do something very, very wrong? Is it possible to be saved, and then lose that salvation? Fortunately, the answer is a resounding “no.” Once a person has accepted Jesus Christ as Savior, he/she is forever saved. This fact is referred to as the doctrine of “eternal security,” often summarized as “once saved, always saved.”[url="http://www.allaboutgod.com/once-saved-always-saved.htm]http://www.allaboutgod.com/once-saved-always-saved.htm[/url]Christ [on the cross], died for our sins {sin(s)/plural-past present and future, so that we may have eternal life. And does eternal not mean forever?
    There is no doctrine of once saved always saved it is men again saying what isnt wrtten is.all you have done here is quote a man thats not proof we are told very clearly that even if you accept Christ if you fall away Christ will say get thee behind me I never knew you.
     
  18. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    (Jackie D;40764)
    aye and let us not forget Romans 11Rom 11:11 I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their fall, to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles. Rom 11:12 Now if their fall is riches for the world, and their failure riches for the Gentiles, how much more their fullness! Rom 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles; inasmuch as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry, Rom 11:14 if by any means I may provoke to jealousy those who are my flesh and save some of them. Rom 11:15 For if their being cast away is the reconciling of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead? Rom 11:16 For if the firstfruit is holy, the lump is also holy; and if the root is holy, so are the branches. Rom 11:17 And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree, Rom 11:18 do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you. Rom 11:19 You will say then, "Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in." Rom 11:20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. Rom 11:21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. our security lies in Christ alone. though He would that none should perish and we have been given the free gift of Salvation we are yet only a branch and the branch that does not produce good fruit will be cut off and cast into the fire....
    Amen Jackie D
     
  19. Beano

    Beano New Member

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    So our continued Salvation depends on producing Good Fruit without Good fruit you will be removed from the vine from Jesus.Kevin
     
  20. waynemlj

    waynemlj New Member

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    Hi Beano,Jon-Marc gave a good answer to your question about retaining your salvation.John 5:24, "Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgement and has passed from death to life."Sounds rather complete and permanent to me!waynemlj
     
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