• Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Behold

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2020
15,647
6,442
113
Netanya or Pensacola
Faith
Christian
Country
Israel
-
Many who are confused or deceived regarding understanding salvation, see it as...

1.) God started it, but now its all on me to do the rest, till i die. (and i hope i make it into heaven).

See that?
See that, "its ON ME now"....>"its MY RESPONSIBILITY Now"...'Its something i have to do for myself now"..
Well, reader, if God's salvation is started by the Cross but finished by you, then how can that be : "the gift of Salvation"?
How is you trying to stay saved, God's GIFT to you?
If God's Salvation is God starting it and you completing it, then how did God already make you Righteous by the blood of Jesus?

So,..... what has happened to the person who is a believer, but is now up on the Cross trying to keep yourself saved.?

Paul says you are 'fallen from Grace', and "in the flesh", if im talking to you.
And im talking to you if you believe you can lose your Salvation.

What is your issue?
What has happened to you?
Listen....if you are In God's Grace, if you are born again, and not just water baptized.... but you dont SEE Christ on the Cross, as the only reason you STAY saved. You do not SEE God's Grace, which is the Blood of Jesus, as WHY you stay saved.
You can't SEE THIS......YET, or you once did and "fell away" from Grace.
You are deceived... You have a stronghold in your mind that is blocking your spiritual ability to SEE the GRACE of GOD.
Your 'spiritual eyes" are darkened.
This is the god of this world causing you to REASON against the Grace of God, by using your self righteousness against you.
That is what the Devil does to a Believer's Faith. That is how he subverts it, and replaces it with....>"im doing this to stay saved".
= Faith in Christ is gone.

You WILL understand that God saved you, but you lost REAL FAITH, or never really understood that staying saved, is not of you., at all.

Salvation is what Christ did for the WORLD, .. John 3:16, 2000 yrs ago.
JESUS completed it. He said..>"it is FINISHED" just before He died.
Why do you argue against this with your commandments obsession, and your self effort to endure to the end? Why do you try to add WATER Baptism to the Cross of Christ?

What is Finished? ????

1.) The FREE OFFER of Completed Spiritual reconciliation back to God, for eternity, is what Christ said He has FINISHED for you, 2000 Yrs ago.

Salvation : is Christ on the Cross, bringing you the offer of ETERNAL RECONCILIATION back to God, based on HIS BLOOD being shed and his Death that followed, as the only REASON.
John 14:6

So, when a believer can't SEE THIS, then they are fallen into a mind that is deceived.
"In the flesh" "fallen from Grace".
And this mind, is not able to SEE that FINISHED Salvation is what GOD DID on the Cross.
The deceived instead SEE Salvation as...> I must do this, and i must do that, and i must keep this, and i must not do that, and if i complete all my LIST of Do's and Don'ts then, im able to KEEP MYSELF SAVED, i hope.

So, if you are doing that, are you allowing God to save you?
You ARE NOT !!
See the problem?
The problem is a faith problem, where Faith that you have is now in yourself to get you into heaven.
This is spiritual blindness. This is LEGALISM. This is Self Saving.
Paul calls this being "in the flesh", because this same type thinking is what an unbeliever thinks.
The unbelievers also are in the flesh, and they have the same religion of ...>"if i want to go to heaven, i must DO AND DO and ........DONT DO".
"If im good enough i can make it".
Listen, if you were Good enough, then why did Christ have to die for your dirty rotten sins?
That is the mind of the flesh, that is putting yourself is a deceived competition against the Cross as if you can, by doing anything, EQUAL God's Blood and Christ's Death.
That is the believer who has fallen from Grace, and you need to wake up out of your self saving mind.

Now, look at Romans 12:1.
Paul tells you to : "present your body as a living sacrifice".
So, that is your discipleship. That is not your salvation , as CHRIST BODY presented to GOD for your SIN, is your Salvation.
See it?
Discipleship is all the doing of the good deeds and works, because you HAVE Salvation, not to try to win it, or keep it.
And Paul is very careful to DEFINE what this is....He says...>"Its your reasonable SERVICE", not your Salvation.
See that?
Its your service. Its your self effort. = your Discipleship.
But notice that Paul does not call this, your SALVATION.
And why does He not? Because Service is Discipleship, and Discipleship is not your Salvation. Its only your SERVICE.

What is your Salvation?
Salvation is God 's Blood, God's mercy, and God's eternal life, all given to you, as "the Gift of Salvation" to make you RIGHTEOUS., as "the GIFT of Righteousness".
Salvation, is to be as Righteous as God, or "made Righteous".
Its to be born again and become "the righteousness of GOD. IN CHRIST".
Only God can do that for you.
And, only you can give God your "reasonable service"< back..... because you are made righteous, already., as born again.

Let me rest your mind......one or some of you, who are battling this deception that is..."i can lose my salvation". or "I think i might have"....

Listen to me Saint....
God has you, because Jesus's Blood will never let you go.
God has you, because the Blood of Jesus, will never ever let you go.
You are God's. You belong to God, and He will never let you go., and that is why Jesus tells you that "you shall never Perish".
God shed His blood and died on the CROSS, to bring you into His Eternal Family, and God's blood and death, this eternal sacrifice, .... will never let you go once it is applied to you.
And it is applied to you, the moment you believe in Jesus and give God your faith.
You've done this? You are going to Heaven.
You have not done this yet? Then you are not going to Heaven, until you do.


Here is the reality about the Cross...
God Himself took full responsibility for the Fall of Adam.
How?
He came down here, as Christ, born of a Virgin, to die for the sin of the world so that this fall of Adam, that is the fall of us all.... could be redeemed and reconciled .
God takes full responsibility for your Salvation, for eternity.
Philippians 1:6.
This verse says..."God, who began salvation in all the born again, will HIMSELF be FAITHFUL to....Complete it."
See that?
That is God's Grace.
God's Mercy and Grace is to offer Himself, His own blood as Christ dying on the Cross, to save you, and complete your salvation.
You dont have to worry about it, if you are born again.
Your SALVATION< is God's Responsibility, and He will get you to heaven.
Even your FAITH, is controlled and completed by God.. after He has it.
Hebrews 12:2 says. "looking unto JESUS,......the......AUTHOR and FINISHER of our FAITH".
See that?
Even our FAITH is completed by God.

So, what does this SALVATION allow you to do?
It allows you to REST from trying to do it for yourself.
You dont save yourself,....... you rest in God's LOVE and Forgiveness, which is God's Grace because He has your salvation as HIS responsibility.
REST in this knowledge, Rest in this Grace of God, and find your power to live Holy.
See that Real Faith? Until you have it, you will not have a perfected discipleship.

What is your responsibility?
Its "to present your LIFE as a living sacrifice, which is your reasonable SERVICE".
You are to serve, because GOD has SAVED You ALREADY, and never do you offer this service as performance to try to keep yourself saved., as that is LEGALISM.
Thats the "mind of the FLESH" that believes that way.

Saint... the righteousness of God....Is Jesus
If you have Him, then you have God's Righteousness, as your eternal life.
Salvation is not a matter of doing....its a matter of having what God has provided to you.
This is JESUS.
Do you have Him in you? Then you are born again, and you HAVE Salvation.
And Jesus told you, that "He will never leave you nor forsake you"
You can do what you do, and think what you think, but Jesus will never leave you.
That's His promise, and His promises are eternal., Just like God's Salvation that is all of Christ...."The Gift of Salvation".... is eternal.
 
Last edited:

theefaith

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2020
20,070
1,354
113
63
Dallas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
There is nothing we can do???


Does the will of God:
Those who hear the Word of God and do it!
Ez 36:25-27
Matt 7:21
Matt 12:50
Mk 3:35
Lk 8:21
Lk 11:28
Jn 5:30
Jn7:17
Rom 12:2
Rev 17:7

Doer of the word
James 1:22-23

Keep my commandments:
Matt 28:20
Jn 14:21

Things we must do:

Matt 5:8
Matt 7:14 narrow road leads to life
Jn 15:1-5 abide in Him
Lk 1:4 be instructed
Acts 2:38 acts 8:36-38 Matt 28:19 Jn 3:5 Jn 3:22 ez 36:25 baptism

Must repent and do penance
Matt 3:2
Matt 3:8
Matt 4:17
Matt 9:13
Matt 16:24
Acts 2:38
Acts 3:19

Must believe and continue in a state of believing:
Jn3:16

Endure to the end:
Matt 24:13
Mark 13:13
Rev 2:26
Heb 3:14
Heb 6:11
Romans 11:22
Colossians 1:21-23
Hebrews 12:22-25
Hebrews 6:4
Hebrews 10:23-29, 35-39
Hebrews 3:4-6
1 John 2:24-25
2 John 8-9
Galatians 5:2-4
2 Timothy 2:11-13
 
  • Like
Reactions: GEN2REV

Behold

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2020
15,647
6,442
113
Netanya or Pensacola
Faith
Christian
Country
Israel
There is nothing we can do???
Does the will of God:

You have to do the WORK of God, and not your works, if you want to go to Heaven.
its the will of God that everyone believe in Jesus.
This is also the work of God.......as...... "the work of God, is that you believe in Jesus...who God sent".

John 6:28-29

Jesus Himself is the "way"......the narrow way, and the Gate.... As there is no other way to the Father but by JESUS........John 14:6
 

GEN2REV

Well-Known Member
May 12, 2021
3,850
1,436
113
United States
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
There is nothing we can do???


Does the will of God:
Those who hear the Word of God and do it!
Ez 36:25-27
Matt 7:21
Matt 12:50
Mk 3:35
Lk 8:21
Lk 11:28
Jn 5:30
Jn7:17
Rom 12:2
Rev 17:7

Doer of the word
James 1:22-23

Keep my commandments:
Matt 28:20
Jn 14:21

Things we must do:

Matt 5:8
Matt 7:14 narrow road leads to life
Jn 15:1-5 abide in Him
Lk 1:4 be instructed
Acts 2:38 acts 8:36-38 Matt 28:19 Jn 3:5 Jn 3:22 ez 36:25 baptism

Must repent and do penance
Matt 3:2
Matt 3:8
Matt 4:17
Matt 9:13
Matt 16:24
Acts 2:38
Acts 3:19

Must believe and continue in a state of believing:
Jn3:16

Endure to the end:
Matt 24:13
Mark 13:13
Rev 2:26
Heb 3:14
Heb 6:11
Romans 11:22
Colossians 1:21-23
Hebrews 12:22-25
Hebrews 6:4
Hebrews 10:23-29, 35-39
Hebrews 3:4-6
1 John 2:24-25
2 John 8-9
Galatians 5:2-4
2 Timothy 2:11-13
I only had the energy/motivation to post a handful of these.

Thank you for taking the time to post this extensive list to the contrary of the OP.

Too bad it won't make the slightest difference. Scripture is no authority with this one.
 

theefaith

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2020
20,070
1,354
113
63
Dallas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
You have to do the WORK of God, and not your works, if you want to go to Heaven.
its the will of God that everyone believe in Jesus.
This is also the work of God.......as...... "the work of God, is that you believe in Jesus...who God sent".

John 6:28-29

Jesus Himself is the "way"......the narrow way, and the Gate.... As there is no other way to the Father but by JESUS........John 14:6

Does include believers all Christ and his church teach?
 

XFire

Active Member
May 14, 2022
150
48
28
San jose
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
First off sons of perdition can lose their salvation.
But salvation is just the beginning. Eternal life is more than just salvation. Look at all the parables. Bring forth more talents than you were given. Emulate the one you say you belive in. Are you bringing forth works mete for repentance. Are you healing the sick. Have you come to the unity of the faith knowing that Jesus is more than denominations.. and more than religion. Christian: Eternal life has already started. Are you living it or still worrying about that first step of salvation
 

Behold

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2020
15,647
6,442
113
Netanya or Pensacola
Faith
Christian
Country
Israel
Does include believers all Christ and his church teach?

"the broad way, that leads to destruction"......VS..>>"the narrow way that is eternal life".

What is the broad way to try to get to heaven, or to become like God? This is self effort and religion, and that leads to Hell. which is "destruction"

What is the "narrow way".... which is the only WAY.......to heaven..? Jesus said, "i am THE WAY".

See that "THE"?........that excludes everything we can do, and shows you the narrow WAY to go to heaven.....That's Jesus Himself.
 

Behold

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2020
15,647
6,442
113
Netanya or Pensacola
Faith
Christian
Country
Israel
Emulate the one you say you belive in.

Trying to be like Christ is ACTING. = pretending.
Its not real., IF, you believe that trying to be like Christ is what saves you or keeps you saved.
However, if you follow Christ, because you are born again, then you are a disciple, and that is to have become a Part of Him, ("the body of Christ") by being Born again.
 

Michiah-Imla

Well-Known Member
Oct 24, 2020
6,165
3,287
113
Northeast USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Many who are confused or deceived regarding understanding salvation, see it as...

1.) God started it, but now its all on me to do the rest, till i die. (and i hope i make it into heaven).

It is on you! And God will help you if He sees that you’re putting in the effort to live a holy life:

“What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?” (Romans 6:15-16)

You see the word “ye”?

YOU choose wether or not to obey sin, or obey righteousness after receiving knowledge of the truth.

You better purge whatever leaven got you saying heretical things against sound doctrine!
 

XFire

Active Member
May 14, 2022
150
48
28
San jose
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
First off as a new creature in Christ. All his act I ons and thoughts just don't pop in your head and your perfect. You have to start trying to change sometime and if that is starting out as acting then fine. But eventually as the HS leads you it becomes real. And that is where we emulate as the new creature we have become
 

theefaith

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2020
20,070
1,354
113
63
Dallas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
"the broad way, that leads to destruction"......VS..>>"the narrow way that is eternal life".

No it does not say: the narrow road “IS” life but that it leads to life!


What is the broad way to try to get to heaven, or to become like God? This is self effort and religion, and that leads to Hell. which is "destruction"

What is the "narrow way".... which is the only WAY.......to heaven..? Jesus said, "i am THE WAY".

See that "THE"?........that excludes everything we can do, and shows you the narrow WAY to go to heaven.....That's Jesus Himself.
 

Behold

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2020
15,647
6,442
113
Netanya or Pensacola
Faith
Christian
Country
Israel
It is on you! And God will help you if He sees that you’re putting in the effort to live a holy life:

God sees the Sinless life of Christ as His only offer to accept you.
You have no righteousness, because you have sinned.
To go to heaven, you have to be given God's Righteousness, that Christ earned for you, on the Cross.
This is "the gift of Righteousness" that God offers as "The Gift of Salvation" to all who will BELIEVE.

"Faith is counted AS Righteousness".
 

Behold

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2020
15,647
6,442
113
Netanya or Pensacola
Faith
Christian
Country
Israel
You have to start trying to change sometime
-

Its God who gives you the power to become.
You can't do that... for yourself., and in fact when you are trying to "be like Christ", you are blocking God's ability to live through you, which is your power.
See that?

All "SELF" ...anything you do, is SELF SELF SELF....And God does not empower "SELF Righteousness".
You have to get OUT of that mind, and then God is allowed to live HIS Holiness, through you.

This is why Paul teaches that "it is no longer I Who live"....
YET, HE'S ALIVE WHEN HE SAYS THAT.....SO, that is talking about SUBMISSION to Christ which is to end all SELF effort to try to be what you can't become.
See that?
That is Paul getting out of the way........ending SELF Righteousness that allows God to do this....>"CHRIST always Gives me the VICTORY".
What Victory?
Victory OVER...the world, the flesh, and the devil.
 

Behold

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2020
15,647
6,442
113
Netanya or Pensacola
Faith
Christian
Country
Israel
“What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?” (Romans 6:15-16)

If you are born again, then the sin issue is a problem only if you are not understanding that you are "made Righteous", Spiritually.
 

Michiah-Imla

Well-Known Member
Oct 24, 2020
6,165
3,287
113
Northeast USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
the sin issue is a problem only if you are not understanding that you are "made Righteous"

You have a hard time understanding scripture I see.

The sin “issue” is a problem if you let sin reign in your mortal body by obeying its lusts:

Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.” (Romans 6:12)

Your assertion of “being made righteous” is applied only to your previous sins at your conversion!
 

Behold

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2020
15,647
6,442
113
Netanya or Pensacola
Faith
Christian
Country
Israel
The sin “issue” is a problem if you let sin reign in your mortal body by obeying its lusts:

Here is what i "see" about you.
You sin and confess.
Why?
Because you have no power to stop., and that is because you have no spiritual understanding regarding why you do that, which is why you will continue.
 

Michiah-Imla

Well-Known Member
Oct 24, 2020
6,165
3,287
113
Northeast USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Because you have no power to stop

What in God’s name are you talking about?!

You are scripturally ignorant:

“Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin” (1 Peter 4:1)
 

theefaith

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2020
20,070
1,354
113
63
Dallas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
God sees the Sinless life of Christ as His only offer to accept you.
You have no righteousness, because you have sinned.
To go to heaven, you have to be given God's Righteousness, that Christ earned for you, on the Cross.
This is "the gift of Righteousness" that God offers as "The Gift of Salvation" to all who will BELIEVE.

"Faith is counted AS Righteousness".

faith alone?