Satan - a bitter, jealous adversary of Job

[face2face]

For all the spectators who watched the sufferings of Job there is one absolute truth concerning his trials, which all knew without any shadow of a doubt.

That it was God who brought the evil upon Job and not a supernatural fictitious being.

This thread (God Willing) will aim to prove this fundamental truth, together with one mind.

An important question is to ask why after 2 chapters of a 42 chapter book does the adversary (satan) fall away never to be heard of again (over 40 chapters)?

We will find many questions like this along the way.

Odd to say the least.

F2F

 

[face2face]

But Satan answered the Lord, “Skin for skin! Indeed, a man will give up all that he has to save his life! 5 But extend your hand and strike his bone and his flesh, and he will no doubt curse you to your face!” Job 2:4,5

Okay, we have a powerless Satan who can only implore God to physically strike the life of Job.

The comment "Strike his bone and his flesh" implies his physical and spiritual person. (see further H. W. Wolff, Anthropology of the Old Testament, 26–28)

The whole Satan & God having a powwow thing is rather comical that is if you believe this is a super evil being speaking with pure Goodness...many questions will arise out of this situation.

 

[breathofdesire]

For all the spectators who watched the sufferings of Job there is one absolute truth concerning his trials, which all knew without any shadow of a doubt.

That it was God who brought the evil upon Job and not a supernatural fictitious being.

This thread (God Willing) will aim to prove this fundamental truth, together with one mind.

An important question is to ask why after 2 chapters of a 42 chapter book does the adversary (satan) fall away never to be heard of again (over 40 chapters)?

We will find many questions like this along the way.

Odd to say the least.

F2F

Since Job is know to be the oldest book, and written in a time before time. Satan in this story had not yet fallen, he still was Gods tester of humankind.

Job had to be tested by satan, as we all have to be tested from time to time. Even the new testament 1 Corinthians 5 says to do this with misbehaving Christians in the church.

 

[breathofdesire]

But Satan answered the Lord, “Skin for skin! Indeed, a man will give up all that he has to save his life! 5 But extend your hand and strike his bone and his flesh, and he will no doubt curse you to your face!” Job 2:4,5

Okay, we have a powerless Satan who can only implore God to physically strike the life of Job.

The comment "Strike his bone and his flesh" implies his physical and spiritual person. (see further H. W. Wolff, Anthropology of the Old Testament, 26–28)

The whole Satan & God having a powwow thing is rather comical that is if you believe this is a super evil being speaking with pure Goodness...many questions will arise out of this situation.

So long as those questions get to the truth, then it's quite alright.

 

[face2face]

Since Job is know to be the oldest book, and written in a time before time. Satan in this story had not yet fallen, he still was Gods tester of humankind.

Job had to be tested by satan, as we all have to be tested from time to time. Even the new testament 1 Corinthians 5 says to do this with misbehaving Christians in the church.

Okay we need to unpack this.

I agree Job is an old book...are you implying it predates Gen 2?
You believe then the Satan in Job is an Angel, one of God ministering spirits?

Why does Job "have" to be tested by Satan? Scripture please with reasoning.

I will leave your Corinthians quote for now only to say that handing over a believer to a supernatural evil being so they can be saved is nonsensical at best

Thanks for the response.

F2F

 

[face2face]

So long as those questions get to the truth, then it's quite alright.

We are destined for truth here breathofdesire...we are going to smash the idea of a Supernatural Evil Satan in the OT (totally debunked). If we break Job open and find this truth, how can the doctrine stand?

 

[breathofdesire]

Okay we need to unpack this.

I agree Job is an old book...are you implying it predates Gen 2?
You believe then the Satan in Job is an Angel, one of God ministering spirits?

Why does Job "have" to be tested by Satan? Scripture please with reasoning.

I will leave your Corinthians quote for now only to say that handing over a believer to a supernatural evil being so they can be saved is nonsensical at best

Thanks for the response.

F2F

Job predates the book of genesis, yes. But moses either would have had it or it was found later. Now, no where in genesis does it say that the serpent on the tree of knowledge was in fact satan himself.

Genesis 3:1 NIV
Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, 'You must not eat from any tree in the garden'? ”

It was just called the serpent.

Here is where it says satan is the serpent.

Revelation 12:9 NIV
The great dragon was hurled down---that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

As for Paul handing over a fellow member to satan, let's leave that for now.

 

[breathofdesire]

We are destined for truth here breathofdesire...we are going to smash the idea of a Supernatural Evil Satan in the OT (totally debunked). If we break Job open and find this truth, how can the doctrine stand?

Literalism is a killer of faith, my new friend.

 

[face2face]

Literalism is a killer of faith, my new friend.

We will look behind the words to see a more likely picture than merely assigning faniciful ideas and notions to a word which simply means adversary.

The friend touch is welcomed.

 

[face2face]

Job predates the book of genesis, yes.

Sorry I meant the events not when it was penned.

But moses either would have had it or it was found later. Now, no where in genesis does it say that the serpent on the tree of knowledge was in fact satan himself.

That's the first piece of honesty I've encountered since returning...all might not be lost - lol

Genesis 3:1 NIV
Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, 'You must not eat from any tree in the garden'? ”

It was just called the serpent.

Lets go a step further.
- It was an animal with the ability to reason upon its own nature
- It was created by God like the other animals at the same time

Here is where it says satan is the serpent.
Revelation 12:9 NIV
The great dragon was hurled down---that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

As for Paul handing over a fellow member to satan, let's leave that for now.

Lets assume for now the dragon in Revelation is merely symbolic of an adversary - powerful nonetheless but not a mystical being.

F2F

 

[breathofdesire]

We will look behind the words to see a more likely picture than merely assigning faniciful ideas and notions to a word which simply means adversary.

The friend touch is welcomed.

That sounds like a good idea.

 

[face2face]

No one has commented on 40 chapters with no mention of a Satan?
Does it concern you that God is attributed as bringing evil on Job and not a supernatural evil being? Job 42:11

 

[breathofdesire]

Sorry I meant the events not when it was penned.

That's the first piece of honesty I've encountered since returning...all might not be lost - lol

Lets go a step further.
- It was an animal with the ability to reason upon its own nature
- It was created by God like the other animals at the same time


Lets assume for now the dragon in Revelation is merely symbolic of an adversary - powerful nonetheless but not a mystical being.

F2F

Well revelations is what's to transpire, I didn't think it speaks of past events.

Revelations 12

is used to support the fall of satan in the past.

And

Ezekiel 28

As well.

 

[breathofdesire]

I got go for a while, will be back later.

 

[breathofdesire]

No one has commented on 40 chapters with no mention of a Satan?
Does it concern you that God is attributed as bringing evil on Job and not a supernatural evil being? Job 42:11

If you do a word search for satan in the old testament, you'll find a very limited amount if verse's.

 

[face2face]

If you do a word search for satan in the old testament, you'll find a very limited amount if verse's.

For all that Christians make of this Being one would think more would be said to Gods people in the OT. For instance the Torah including the Law is silent and we know why now in that the meaning of Satan is adversary. Sometimes a divine adversary but more often the human kind.

 

[bbyrd009]

Does it concern you that God is attributed as bringing evil on Job and not a supernatural evil being?

but Job confesses, although this is occluded in the Christian telling, wherein God is portrayed as just capricious imo

 

[breathofdesire]

For all that Christians make of this Being one would think more would be said to Gods people in the OT. For instance the Torah including the Law is silent and we know why now in that the meaning of Satan is adversary. Sometimes a divine adversary but more often the human kind.

He is the prince of the air "Transmission"

Human transmission.

 

[face2face]

Job 1:21
The Lord gave, and the Lord has taken away.
Job 2:10

The next piece of evidence is Job being totally oblivious to this demonic creature - not once does he know the nature of his adversary.

Job knows the truth that God alone gives and takes away.

No lament toward his adversary - often like Cain and Abel they do not know.

 

[bbyrd009]

He is the prince of the air "Transmission"

Human transmission.

(pleased to meet you; hope you guessed my name)