scientific theology

[arunangelo]

God is love. Love is bond which hold together people by seeking the good of others. Love results in harmony and peace. The universe is made of matter in the form of solid, liquid and gases. The tiniest particle of matter is an atom. It is held together by bonds to form visible matter. Without bonds it will not exist. Atom is made of tinier particles called electrons, neutrons, and protons. Electrons are almost massless. Neutron and protons are made of tinier particles which in turn are made of almost massless particle that are held together by bonds. Even life processes exist, because of chemical reaction, which in turn occur because of bonds. Furthermore, the universe, and the heavenly bodies in it are kept in perfect harmony by bonds. The structure of a cell with a nucleus at its center and organelle around it, a planetary system with the sun at its center and planets around it, and the nucleus of an atom with particles around it have similar structural pattern. It is therefore the same bond that brought them into existence which governs everything that exists. If the bond (who is God), let go of matter it will disappear, as it does in the black holes. On the other hand, if God wills it, matter will come into existence. Therefore, newer universes are continually being created. Furthermore, in charged particles there is polarity, of positive and negative; each complementing the other to produce action (in the case of a motor) and light (in the case of a bulb. In living entities there exist polarity in form of sexes- male and female, with one complementing the other to procreate new entities. These facts show us that a single force (the bond of love) is the creator of everything that exist. Therefore, if we are in sync with God by accepting love as our life, we will always exist and be in harmony with each other. On the other hand, if we reject love, our spirit will be dead and in the total darkness of the black holes which are totally devoid of light and in total disarray.

The fullness of God’s love is seen in Jesus, who accepted death on cross to heal those who betrayed and killed him. The message of the cross is: “I will not give up on you my friend irrespective of how badly you treat me or betray me. The more you hurt me, the more I will love you”. I will give up everything, including my own life (on the cross) to bring you back to God. He, therefore, is the bond of love for the whole human race.

 

[Heart2Soul]

God is love. Love is bond which hold together people by seeking the good of others. Love results in harmony and peace. The universe is made of matter in the form of solid, liquid and gases. The tiniest particle of matter is an atom. It is held together by bonds to form visible matter. Without bonds it will not exist. Atom is made of tinier particles called electrons, neutrons, and protons. Electrons are almost massless. Neutron and protons are made of tinier particles which in turn are made of almost massless particle that are held together by bonds. Even life processes exist, because of chemical reaction, which in turn occur because of bonds. Furthermore, the universe, and the heavenly bodies in it are kept in perfect harmony by bonds. The structure of a cell with a nucleus at its center and organelle around it, a planetary system with the sun at its center and planets around it, and the nucleus of an atom with particles around it have similar structural pattern. It is therefore the same bond that brought them into existence which governs everything that exists. If the bond (who is God), let go of matter it will disappear, as it does in the black holes. On the other hand, if God wills it, matter will come into existence. Therefore, newer universes are continually being created. Furthermore, in charged particles there is polarity, of positive and negative; each complementing the other to produce action (in the case of a motor) and light (in the case of a bulb. In living entities there exist polarity in form of sexes- male and female, with one complementing the other to procreate new entities. These facts show us that a single force (the bond of love) is the creator of everything that exist. Therefore, if we are in sync with God by accepting love as our life, we will always exist and be in harmony with each other. On the other hand, if we reject love, our spirit will be dead and in the total darkness of the black holes which are totally devoid of light and in total disarray.

The fullness of God’s love is seen in Jesus, who accepted death on cross to heal those who betrayed and killed him. The message of the cross is: “I will not give up on you my friend irrespective of how badly you treat me or betray me. The more you hurt me, the more I will love you”. I will give up everything, including my own life (on the cross) to bring you back to God. He, therefore, is the bond of love for the whole human race.

Well stated and thought out! Awesome wisdom in this! Thanks for sharing!

 

[101G]

Addressing the OP, good topic, and I understand what you're saying. God is Science, or rather TRUE science is God... (smile). 1 Timothy 6:20 "O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:"

TRUE Science is God.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[Rudometkin]

seeking the good of others.

Only God is good.

(Matthew 19:17)

 

[101G]

Only God is good.

(Matthew 19:17)

that is 100% correct, but I like what God, Jesus did not say, "AM I BAD". so he must be "GOOD".

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[farouk]

Only God is good.

(Matthew 19:17)

@Rudometkin Good verse there.

Sometimes the word 'good' can be used in the sense of seeking the welfare of others (as in Philippians 2.1-5).

 

[Stumpmaster]

Therefore, newer universes are continually being created.

When did this hypothesis get proven? I must have missed it.

 

[DNB]

You used science and physics as an analogy to love. Fine, it works.
But, in my opinion, you asserted some rather controversial, if not audacious claims?

Therefore, newer universes are continually being created.

Could you point to the whereabouts of another one, or is Jesus Lord over those other universes also? Just for starters....

The fullness of God’s love is seen in Jesus, who accepted death on cross to heal those who betrayed and killed him.

I highly doubt that the ones that Jesus called 'sons of the devil, whitewashed tombs, children of hell, you will receive a more severe punishment, ... that is, the ones that crucified him, are part of the demograph that Jesus died for.
Matthew 23:15, Mark 12:40 , Lk 20:45-47.

For that matter, I doubt that Jesus said Luke 23:34. These words are missing in some of the oldest authorities. At least, if authentic, I question as to who he was actually referring to.

 

[kcnalp]

For that matter, I doubt that Jesus said Luke 23:34. These words are missing in some of the oldest authorities.

Name them.

 

[DNB]

Name them.

No, you look them up.

 

[kcnalp]

No, you look them up.

IOW, you can't name them. So I will assume you made it up.

 

[DNB]

IOW, you can't name them. So I will assume you made it up.

You're silly!

We saw that although this sentence is included in 99% of existing Greek manuscripts of the Gospel of Luke, the copyists of six early manuscripts – Papyrus 75, Codex Vaticanus, Codex Bezae, Codex W, Codex Koridethi, and 070 – did not include it in the text, and because these particular manuscripts constitute early representatives of diverse branches of the text’s transmission, this is seem by some researchers – including James White of Alpha & Omega Ministries – as evidence that the passage was not in the original text.

 

[MattMooradian]

Nice analogy: bonds in nature are like the bonds of love. But, I thought this might be about how science can contribute to our understanding of scripture. For instance, it seems clear that science does not support a literal 6 days of creation. Science does support the creation story in the Bible, but not a literal interpretation of those stories.

I have been wondering what the 'apple' represents in Genesis. What did early female hominids do to early male hominids that might explain this Bible story? Based on genetics, hominid males were promiscuous, but female hominids wanted the males to stay around. Was the original sin associated with this? Or, does the 'apple' represent something else that occurred during the cultural evolution of humans?

I also ponder what our 'soul' consists of; science has been unable to detect anything within the human organism that can prove we have a soul or spirit. But, since the discovery of dark matter, we now have a candidate for the substance of the human soul or spirit: dark matter is real (scientifically), but it cannot be directly measured (by current scientific methods). So, could we have a soul that consists of dark matter and is that why science has failed to detect it?

My scientific search, hopefully, is guided by my scriptural understanding. For me, at least, when science confirms scripture, my faith is bolstered.

 

[kcnalp]

No, you look them up.

I just found Luke 23:34 in 36 English translations.

 

[Stumpmaster]

I have been wondering what the 'apple' represents in Genesis.

Hi Matt, As you may be aware the fruit of the Tree Of The Knowledge Of Good And Evil is not specifically stated anywhere in the Bible as being an apple, but I have read that the term is used somewhat loosely in botany to mean fruit.

I believe the fact that the fruit in question was forbidden for Adam and Eve to partake of gives us all the information we need if we must see it as representative of anything. Fruit is something that is produced. Different trees produce different fruit, a truism that gives rise to various metaphors, such as Jesus saying, "By their fruit you shall know them." Therefore it follows that in the Garden of Eden, knowledge of good of evil was present in a tree, and that tree produced fruit which God did not want Adam and Eve to sample because of the effect it would have, i.e. they would lose their innocence and become aware of the existence of evil.

A FAQ is "Why was the TOTKOGAE in the Garden of Eden where it was accessible to Adam and Eve?"

I believe its inclusion was integral to God's relationship with Adam and Eve, and by implication with His Creation. Good and evil were of course known to God but since He had previously declared all aspects of His Creation as good this was the only experience He desired for all things to have. Satan of course had other plans. From the beginning of Creation Satan's evil desires meant God was confronted with opposition, and meant His Creation was exposed to the possibility of experiencing the conflict that opposition to Him always brings. I believe the Tree Of The Knowledge Of Good And Evil refers us to the Omniscience of God and introduces His provision for dealing with all that opposes Him in order to ensure the victory of good over evil.

Note: There is a tendency for some thinkers to "bend" Biblical Theology to fit scientific reasoning, but since the Bible is not a science manual this practice is a recipe for error.

 

[101G]

My scientific search, hopefully, is guided by my scriptural understanding. For me, at least, when science confirms scripture, my faith is bolstered.

maybe these scripture may help your scientific search. the fruit in the garden is not literal in a sense. Galatians 5:22 "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,"
Galatians 5:23 "Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law."
Galatians 5:24 "And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts."

now that's the "FRUIT" of the Spirit, listen carefully, a physical fruit of man... children. Isaiah 13:18 "Their bows also shall dash the young men to pieces; and they shall have no pity on the fruit of the womb; their eye shall not spare children." yes, this kind of physical fruit as in "be frutiful and multiply, the procreation of children. those are Just a few example of "FRUIT". but if one read the garden account this fruit, "is to make one WISE". lets examine the record.

Genesis 3:5 "For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil."Genesis 3:6 "And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat."

well from the terms used here in Genesis, we know that this is not a Natural fruit, .... like your apple for example.

#1. "to EAT", not phyically, scripture, Hosea 10:13 "Ye have plowed wickedness, ye have reaped iniquity; ye have eaten the fruit of lies: because thou didst trust in thy way, in the multitude of thy mighty men."

so how do a lie taste? ...... (figuratively, not good)... see what I mean now. can one hold a lie in their hands physically? NO, well lets examine what lie can be eaten. Proverbs 18:20 "A man's belly shall be satisfied with the fruit of his mouth; and with the increase of his lips shall he be filled."NOW LISTEN CAREFULLY, the very next verse,
Proverbs 18:21 "Death and life are in the power of the tongue: and they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof." BINGO.

#2. Eyes: not our phyical eyes in our head, but our eyes of "UNDERSTANDING". this is the hebrew word, H5869 עַיִן `ayin (ah'-yin) n-e.
1. an eye (literally or figuratively).
2. (by analogy) a fountain (as the eye of the landscape).
[probably a primitive word]
KJV: affliction, outward appearance, + before, + think best, colour, conceit, + be content, countenance, + displease, eye((-brow), (-d), -sight), face, + favour, fountain, furrow (from the margin), X him, + humble, knowledge, look, (+ well), X me, open(-ly), + (not) please, presence, + regard, resemblance, sight, X thee, X them, + think, X us, well, X you(-rselves).

scripture, Ephesians 1:16 "Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers;"
Ephesians 1:17 "That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:" BINGO.
Ephesians 1:18 "The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,"

so the eye is the LIGHT unto the body, our "UNDERSTANDING", revelation knowledge.

#3. Knowing: to ascertain "KNOWLEDGE", but here is a way to ascertain, or find (something) out for certain; make sure of.
for knowing is the hebrew word,
H3045 יָדַע yada` (yaw-dah') v.
1. (properly) to ascertain by seeing.
2. (generally) to know.
3. (used widely) to observe, care, recognize, etc.
4. (causatively, used widely) to instruct, designate, punish, etc.
{used in a great variety of senses: figuratively, literally, euphemistically, inferentially, and causatively.}
[a primitive root]
KJV: acknowledge, acquaintance(-ted with), advise, answer, appoint, assuredly, be aware, (un-)awares, can(-not), certainly, comprehend, consider, X could they,

your way or God "WAY, scripture, Proverbs 14:12 "There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death." BINGO.
to know is to be wise, as Eve desired, "to make one wise", but there is a fountian of wisdom..... in God, but as the apostle James said, James 1:5 "If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him."
James 1:6 "But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed."
James 1:7 "For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord."
James 1:8 "A double minded man is unstable in all his ways."

I know by now you have your answer.

so the fruit in the garden is not phyically the eatable fruit we eat today, as in apple and oranges. the fruit that one eats is as important as to where, or what mouth feed it to you. remember, Proverbs 18:21 "Death and life are in the power of the tongue: and they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof." DEATH is LIES, and LIFE is TRUTH.

we suggest one go to God and hear his mouth.... or "WORD". for 2 Thessalonians 2:11 & 12 are ringing so true.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur

 

[MattMooradian]

PICJAG

I must confess, I do not understand your point. First off: I use the term 'apple' because that is Christian tradition. No. It was not a real apple or a real piece of any fruit. The apple is symbolic of something else. At the beginning of your statement you seem to suggest that the 'fruit'/'apple' is symbolic for 'the fruit of the womb'. Ok. I understood up to that point. Then, your argument went in many different directions that were not coherent to this reader. Nevertheless, if I just address the part that I understand, then, original sin was that Adam & Eve had children? I don't think so. But, maybe you are correct.

 

[ChristisGod]

@Rudometkin Good verse there.

Sometimes the word 'good' can be used in the sense of seeking the welfare of others (as in Philippians 2.1-5).

Only God is Good !

 

[101G]

I must confess, I do not understand your point. First off: I use the term 'apple' because that is Christian tradition. No. It was not a real apple or a real piece of any fruit. The apple is symbolic of something else. At the beginning of your statement you seem to suggest that the 'fruit'/'apple' is symbolic for 'the fruit of the womb'. Ok. I understood up to that point. Then, your argument went in many different directions that were not coherent to this reader. Nevertheless, if I just address the part that I understand, then, original sin was that Adam & Eve had children? I don't think so. But, maybe you are correct.

first thanks for the reply, second, no, no syuggestion, but gave an example of the symbolic language. read post #16 again.


PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur

 

[Stumpmaster]

I must confess, I do not understand your point. First off: I use the term 'apple' because that is Christian tradition. No. It was not a real apple or a real piece of any fruit. The apple is symbolic of something else. At the beginning of your statement you seem to suggest that the 'fruit'/'apple' is symbolic for 'the fruit of the womb'. Ok. I understood up to that point. Then, your argument went in many different directions that were not coherent to this reader. Nevertheless, if I just address the part that I understand, then, original sin was that Adam & Eve had children? I don't think so. But, maybe you are correct.

Hi Matt. Since you haven't used the reply toggle to identify who you are responding to I am not 100% sure it is me you are addressing as I do not maintain that the actual fruit on the TOTKOGAE is symbolic of "the fruit of the womb", and I consider the TOTKOGAE and its fruit to be as real as I am, actually existing as the Bible states and not just an allegorical concept. Many who think the Creation account of Adam & Eve, the Garden of Eden, the Tree Of The Knowledge Of Good And Evil, and the Serpent that could talk, are not literal but figurative and allegorical have trouble understanding the dynamics of the unfolding events and their meaning, but Jesus Himself puts the record straight with these words:

Joh 5:46-47 For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me. (47) But if you believe not his writings, how shall you believe my words?

Given that the Gospel of Luke has Adam in it's genealogy of the earthly parents of Jesus at what point did the line of the falsely called "figurative Adam" become real?

I don't consider Theistic Evolutionists or OT allegorists to be Bible Believers.