ScottA and Tigger 2 discuss Who is God?

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tigger 2

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Scott has asked me to start off with my first scripture we will discuss. I believe the Most High God of the Bible is a single 'person' (YHWH, the Father alone.)

I am also asking that when using a quote from the OT, please use a Bible which uses one of the accepted transliterations of God's only personal name (YHWH) such as Lexham English Bible or Jerusalem Bible (Yahweh) or ASV (Jehovah). Or at least replace the terrible mistranslation of 'LORD' and GOD' with 'YHWH'; 'Yahweh'; 'Yehowah'; or 'Jehovah.'

I will start with John 17:1,3

John 17:3 - "Father....now eternal life means knowing you as the only true God and knowing Jesus your messenger as Christ." - The New Testament in the Language of the People, (C.B. Williams), 1963, Moody Press.
 

Stranger

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Scott has asked me to start off with my first scripture we will discuss. I believe the Most High God of the Bible is a single 'person' (YHWH, the Father alone.)

I am also asking that when using a quote from the OT, please use a Bible which uses one of the accepted transliterations of God's only personal name (YHWH) such as Lexham English Bible or Jerusalem Bible (Yahweh) or ASV (Jehovah). Or at least replace the terrible mistranslation of 'LORD' and GOD' with 'YHWH'; 'Yahweh'; 'Yehowah'; or 'Jehovah.'

I will start with John 17:1,3

John 17:3 - "Father....now eternal life means knowing you as the only true God and knowing Jesus your messenger as Christ." - The New Testament in the Language of the People, (C.B. Williams), 1963, Moody Press.

There is no one on one debate category. Therefore anyone can participate. Scott asked you at your leading. Why are you afraid of normal forum participation. You can't handle it?

Stranger
 

tigger 2

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Well, it's people like you who disrupt a discussion that is very important to me that I am trying to avoid . If that won't work, and it appears that you may intend to see that it doesn't work here, I will try to go somewhere that has one-to-one discussions.
 

Stranger

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Well, it's people like you who disrupt a discussion that is very important to me that I am trying to avoid . If that won't work, and it appears that you may intend to see that it doesn't work here, I will try to go somewhere that has one-to-one discussions.

If you're scared, say you're scared.

Stranger
 

Helen

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Well, it's people like you who disrupt a discussion that is very important to me that I am trying to avoid . If that won't work, and it appears that you may intend to see that it doesn't work here, I will try to go somewhere that has one-to-one discussions.

You and @ScottA can always use the INBOX feature and discuss there.
That is an option, then you'd for sure get none of us interrupting your conversation because it is totally private. If need be, you can invite @aspen too..because it enables more than two in the conversation if you invite them.

Hey, have at it!
 
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ScottA

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Scott has asked me to start off with my first scripture we will discuss. I believe the Most High God of the Bible is a single 'person' (YHWH, the Father alone.)

I am also asking that when using a quote from the OT, please use a Bible which uses one of the accepted transliterations of God's only personal name (YHWH) such as Lexham English Bible or Jerusalem Bible (Yahweh) or ASV (Jehovah). Or at least replace the terrible mistranslation of 'LORD' and GOD' with 'YHWH'; 'Yahweh'; 'Yehowah'; or 'Jehovah.'

I will start with John 17:1,3

John 17:3 - "Father....now eternal life means knowing you as the only true God and knowing Jesus your messenger as Christ." - The New Testament in the Language of the People, (C.B. Williams), 1963, Moody Press.
Okay, and thank you.

First, I would like to point out that it would appear that you are purposing to substantiate something that your choice of passages is unable to show either way. You see, until Jesus referred to God as Father, God was simply God. In other words, what establishes God as Father, is the fact that He has a begotten Son. Which, in and of itself, does not directly indicate that the Father is the only true God. But it also does not indicate that there is more than One God. It simply indicates a Father/Son relationship. Which should be means to move on.
 

tigger 2

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Okay, and thank you.

First, I would like to point out that it would appear that you are purposing to substantiate something that your choice of passages is unable to show either way. You see, until Jesus referred to God as Father, God was simply God. In other words, what establishes God as Father, is the fact that He has a begotten Son. Which, in and of itself, does not directly indicate that the Father is the only true God. But it also does not indicate that there is more than One God. It simply indicates a Father/Son relationship. Which should be means to move on.


God is Father of everything including his firstborn, only-begotten Son. Israel was aware of YHWH being their Father. Is. 64:8 (or :7); John 8:41. Jesus had declared the Father many times before John 17:3 - John 5:36, 37, for example.

How is it that Jesus calling the Father 'the only true God' (and Jesus the Christ being sent by Him) does not mean what it clearly says in every major translation? And how is it that the Holy Spirit is ignored. Nowhere is there a clear undisputed statement that the HS is the true God. Nowhere is there a clear undisputed statement that the Son is the only true God.
 
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ScottA

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God is Father of everything including his firstborn, only-begotten Son. Israel was aware of YHWH being their Father. Is. 64:8 (or :7); John 8:41. Jesus had declared the Father many times before John 17:3 - John 5:36, 37, for example.

How is it that Jesus calling the Father 'the only true God' (and Jesus the Christ being sent by Him) does not mean what it clearly says in every major translation? And how is it that the Holy Spirit is ignored. Nowhere is there a clear undisputed statement that the HS is the true God. Nowhere is there a clear undisputed statement that the Son is the only true God.
Okay...so according to what you have just said, there is a Father, a Son, and a Holy Spirit. Still, your only assertion that the Father is the only true God, is that Jesus referred to Him as the only true God, and that it is unclear that the Holy Spirit is the true God.

You see, I have just turned it around. Nonetheless, the words of Jesus would seem to support your supposition, but the lack of anything credible regarding the Holy Spirit leaves that one to a draw.

But now you have sighted other scriptures. I thought you were not going to do that. I did suggest we move on, and I am completely fine with it, but clearly things are unresolved here. What is it that you are looking for? Would you like scripture, documentation, or should we both make supposition?

Since you have already done so, I will make my own supposition:

"A tree is known by its fruit." While it is true that the case for Godship of the Son and the Holy Spirit is arguable, it is not without reason or even evidence: Jesus performed miracles and rattled off knowledge only God could produce. The Holy Spirit, likewise, all throughout the ages. But I prefer what He (God) has given me: personal, spiritual proof. Not that I could prove any of it to you, an atheist, or anyone for that matter. But the whole of the written word supports it as God's truth, because of the same manner of personal spiritual (as well as physical) witness testimony, which cannot be denied. So, if any of it is credible, then I have a case to be heard, whether received or not.

But back to the fruit. By the creation, if we can agree that it represents God's truth...it begins in the garden. By this we know that a son or a child are "of" their father, and a tree bearing fruit is even more, for the fruit is not just "of" the tree, but is a part thereof. And if we believe, we believe that the multitude of witness testimonies all come down to two family trees by two fathers: one flesh and one spirit. Yet to give voice to a fruit or a son, would he not praise the branches and the root, though they are One...just as the scriptures say?

Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.
 
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Stranger

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Scott has asked me to start off with my first scripture we will discuss. I believe the Most High God of the Bible is a single 'person' (YHWH, the Father alone.)

I am also asking that when using a quote from the OT, please use a Bible which uses one of the accepted transliterations of God's only personal name (YHWH) such as Lexham English Bible or Jerusalem Bible (Yahweh) or ASV (Jehovah). Or at least replace the terrible mistranslation of 'LORD' and GOD' with 'YHWH'; 'Yahweh'; 'Yehowah'; or 'Jehovah.'

I will start with John 17:1,3

John 17:3 - "Father....now eternal life means knowing you as the only true God and knowing Jesus your messenger as Christ." - The New Testament in the Language of the People, (C.B. Williams), 1963, Moody Press.

God is not a single person. (Gen. 1:26) "And God said, Let us make man in our image...."

Stranger
 
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Stranger

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Okay, and thank you.

First, I would like to point out that it would appear that you are purposing to substantiate something that your choice of passages is unable to show either way. You see, until Jesus referred to God as Father, God was simply God. In other words, what establishes God as Father, is the fact that He has a begotten Son. Which, in and of itself, does not directly indicate that the Father is the only true God. But it also does not indicate that there is more than One God. It simply indicates a Father/Son relationship. Which should be means to move on.

A 'begotten' Son is not necessary for God the Father to exist as Father. God is always and always has been Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Stranger
 
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Ally.s.j

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Wow you poeple cant even leave the guys have a discussion. I would like to watch two people have a debate uninterupted. This is pathetic.
Ask the forum money makers to make a 1v1 section.
 

prashanthd

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Well, it's people like you who disrupt a discussion that is very important to me that I am trying to avoid . If that won't work, and it appears that you may intend to see that it doesn't work here, I will try to go somewhere that has one-to-one discussions.

Well, there are people who disrupt discussions in this community and Stranger is certainly not one among them. They don't have anything substantial to add to the discussion and most of their posts are out of context. Oh, they don't even believe in the Holy Bible and try hard to mislead others whenever possible. Worst, they pretend as Christians.

Well well, the concern is, people do join here every now and then with some preconceived ideas which are never heard of or those which are too simple to understand. They try to project that the general understanding is alien. Then there is a display of adrenaline rush on the discussion thread. Then the discussion tends to lack direction or becomes multidimensional. The adrenaline continues to show off like the person in post office sorting out letters in the movie 'Men in Black' or like a Brad Pitt as Achillies in the movie of Troy, when he is the first one to jump out of the ship and kills several in a few second while others are still in the ship waiting to reach the shore.:) Since this is not a movie to watch, the after-affect of such adrenaline rush is that such members are never seen again in this community.:D

Since ScottA does not appear to be in sinc with your proposal of one-on-one discussion and others do not appear to remain as mute spectators, I suggest that you post all your ideas, opinions or findings in the Blog section. Much better is to have your own blog and many sites give it away free provided they insert a few ads. You can also allow specific people to post. You can even manage web publishing for your blog and expect a wider audience around the world.:) Many are already into this.:p Why not get started! Better late than never!:eek: How about Wordpress?;)
 
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prashanthd

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Wow you poeple cant even leave the guys have a discussion. I would like to watch two people have a debate uninterupted. This is pathetic.
Ask the forum money makers to make a 1v1 section.

This is a Christian Community where all Christians are considered to be a work in progress.
 

Ally.s.j

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This is a Christian Community where all Christians are considered to be a work in progress.
Thats no excuse I would expect to see better in the world let a lons Christians, dont make excuses. They asked to have a debate together with out others butting in. But the adult Christians said no.
 

prashanthd

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Thats no excuse I would expect to see better in the world let a lons Christians, dont make excuses. They asked to have a debate together with out others butting in. But the adult Christians said no.

When ScottA himself is not interested, what is your problem? If you need to watch a contest, adult Christians can do better!
 

ScottA

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A 'begotten' Son is not necessary for God the Father to exist as Father. God is always and always has been Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Stranger
Correct, we note that it is just the manifestation of the Son who came at the appointed time.
 

ScottA

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ALL:

I am totally fine with other input or questions. I will however, make make my main focus the debate between myself and tigger 2.
 

Ally.s.j

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When ScottA himself is not interested, what is your problem? If you need to watch a contest, adult Christians can do better!
I dont know what ScoorA is. What I do know is a simple request was made and ignored completly bofer ScottA did any thing.
 

Helen

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Wow you poeple cant even leave the guys have a discussion. I would like to watch two people have a debate uninterupted. This is pathetic.
Ask the forum money makers to make a 1v1 section.

I already mentioned a private INBOX together...and as someone else said..
They could Blog it! If they don't want anyone else playing with their toys. :)

Email is an option too! lol

At this point, this is an open forum and Stranger has every right to post. Them are the rules.
 
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