Scripture with Scripture

[Mjh29]

How often do we base out theology on just a few verses, without regarding what the rest if the Scriptures. Many a false belief has been based on one verse that is misinterpreted. A philosophy of mine has always been to compare Scriptures with Scriptures. Especially on this forum, I have seen a spike in the amount of "opinions" that are being passed of as equal to Scripture, people who claim inspiration that the Bible clearly states are impossibilities. I would like to have a calm, meaningful discussion on the following questions.

1.) Can we agree that the Scriptures take precedence over our own personal opinions or traditions?

2.) Do we search the Scriptures diligently to support our beliefs?

3.) What are the basic doctrines of the Bible that you must hold to in order to be a Christian, according to the Scriptures?

 

[Willie T]

How often do we base out theology on just a few verses, without regarding what the rest if the Scriptures. Many a false belief has been based on one verse that is misinterpreted. A philosophy of mine has always been to compare Scriptures with Scriptures. Especially on this forum, I have seen a spike in the amount of "opinions" that are being passed of as equal to Scripture, people who claim inspiration that the Bible clearly states are impossibilities. I would like to have a calm, meaningful discussion on the following questions.

1.) Can we agree that the Scriptures take precedence over our own personal opinions or traditions?

2.) Do we search the Scriptures diligently to support our beliefs?

3.) What are the basic doctrines of the Bible that you must hold to in order to be a Christian, according to the Scriptures?

To do #-1, we have to admit that someone else's opinion of Scripture could take presidence over ours. Are YOU (any of you) really willing to accept that?

Truth be known, none of us are.... because we would not believe what we believe if we did not believe OUR interpretations (opinions) were the correct ones.

It is rare that any of us think deeply enough to think that our thinking could be wrong. We spend most of our time trying to show how and why we are right.

 

[Mjh29]

To do #-1, we have to admit that someone else's opinion of Scripture could take presidence over ours. Are YOU (any of you) really willing to accept that?

Truth be known, none of us are.... because we would not believe what we believe if we did not believe OUR interpretations (opinions) were the correct ones.

I agree that we do tend to lean towards our own personal interpretations, however, if I were to state my view of a verse, and someone were to give multipule
scriptures opposing me, I would be forced to do a thorough study myself. If I could not support my own view from Scripture, I would be force to change. This is what I meant. Instead of just throwing around insults and our own opinions, can we agree that the Bible is our final deciding factor, and start using Scriptures to support our views.

 

[amadeus]

I agree that we do tend to lean towards our own personal interpretations, however, if I were to state my view of a verse, and someone were to give multipule
scriptures opposing me, I would be forced to do a thorough study myself. If I could not support my own view from Scripture, I would be force to change. This is what I meant. Instead of just throwing around insults and our own opinions, can we agree that the Bible is our final deciding factor, and start using Scriptures to support our views.

If you really do this every time, you are likely a rare bird here. Some might say it, but how many would really do it?

"But what think ye? A certain man had two sons; and he came to the first, and said, Son, go work to day in my vineyard.
He answered and said, I will not: but afterward he repented, and went.
And he came to the second, and said likewise. And he answered and said, I go, sir: and went not." Matt 21:28-30

 

[Mjh29]

If you really do this every time, you are likely a rare bird here. Some might say it, but how many would really do it?

"But what think ye? A certain man had two sons; and he came to the first, and said, Son, go work to day in my vineyard.
He answered and said, I will not: but afterward he repented, and went.
And he came to the second, and said likewise. And he answered and said, I go, sir: and went not." Matt 21:28-30

If my views cannot be supported by Scriptures, what good are they? All of my views, as far as I know, can be supported by Scripture.

 

[Willie T]

Catholics back up just about EVERYTHING they believe with Scripture. BUT... most Protestants are not willing to accept their interpretations of those Scriptures. However, they are STILL very clearly and (in their views) accurately backed-up.

What do we do with situations like that?

 

[amadeus]

If my views cannot be supported by Scriptures, what good are they? All of my views, as far as I know, can be supported by Scripture.

All of mine that I would defend could be supported by scripture, but does that mean that I am always right and the other guys opposed to me are wrong? I really do not believe I am always right even if I use scriptures to support my case. Over the years that I have served God I know that my beliefs have changed. Each time before they were changed, I already believed that I was right. But then...

"Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the LORD pondereth the hearts." Prov 21:2

 

[Mjh29]

Catholics back up just about EVERYTHING they believe with Scripture. BUT... most Protestants are not willing to accept their interpretations of those Scriptures. However, they are STILL very clearly and (in their views) accurately backed-up.

What do we do with situations like that?

excellent point. While this is true, and on the surface may seem like they are based in Scriptures, this is where we must take and study the Catholic faith, and find refutations from Scriptures. This is where diligent study comes into play.

 

[Mjh29]

All of mine that I would defend could be supported by scripture, but does that mean that I am always right and the other guys opposed to me are wrong? I really do not believe I am always right even if I use scriptures to support my case. Over the years that I have served God I know that my beliefs have changed. Each time before they were changed, I already believed that I was right. But then...

"Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the LORD pondereth the hearts." Prov 21:2

I agree to this. This was the point of my saying as far as I know. I know that there are probably quite a few things that I am mistaken about, however, I will not be swayed by anything other than solid, biblical evidence. I do acknowledge that our beliefs are based to some extent on our own interpretations and opinions. All I am saying is that we cannot be so stubborn as to ignore when we are clearly wrong.

 

[Willie T]

One of the bug-a-boos of being old, and into the Bible since third grade, is coming to the realization that, cleverly manipulated, selected verses (often MANY of them) can be used to make the Bible sound like it is saying almost anything anyone wants it to say. This very thing is what fuels the Westboro Baptist mob.

 

[Willie T]

When it comes right down to it, I think we invent most of the things we become upset about, and that the specific verses we fight over really have nothing to do with Jesus' basic message of salvation.

 

[Mjh29]

One of the bug-a-boos of being old, and into the Bible since third grade, is coming to the realization that, cleverly manipulated, selected verses (often MANY of them) can be used to make the Bible sound like it is saying almost anything anyone wants it to say. This very thing is what fuels the Westboro Baptist mob.

This is why we need to find churches with men who know the Scriptures. Again, I know that there will be minor differences here and there between denominations, however, this is why we must assert the bare-bones doctrines to which all Christians adhere; such as Christ being the one and only way, that the Scriptures are the infallible word of God, ect.

 

[amadeus]

Catholics back up just about EVERYTHING they believe with Scripture. BUT... most Protestants are not willing to accept their interpretations of those Scriptures. However, they are STILL very clearly and (in their views) accurately backed-up.

What do we do with situations like that?

Absolutely this is one of the ways in which God convinced me on where I am. At first I thought that over the centuries they [Catholics] as a church group had been confronted by nearly every question a protestor or doubter might come up with and studied the scriptures to find answers to cover the difficulty. Of course where they already had a answer in place it might take a while longer, to make it all fit somewhat logically together, but eventually...

This was not done by one man and many men not in one day or even one year but over centuries. If they were really ever wrong in any of their answers, only God could ever come against them successfully.

A Catholic reading this thread might say, 'Well they were led by God to come up with those answers.' Yes, and sometimes it would be so for I agree with some of their beliefs and positions on things myself. But, whatever we believe, how can we prove it to another person who believes it differently based on his own understanding of the scriptures? We cannot unless God is in it. Remember what Gamaliel [not a Christian] said:

"And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought:
But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God." Acts 5:38-39

Sometimes we argue simply to prove they [whoever they are] are wrong and we are right. Why are we not really seeking the truth, God's truth, rather than working so hard to make someone change to our way?

Will we never change a person's minds here or any where by our talk? Of course we may, but ultimately is it not always God that gives any real increase?

I have been changed in my beliefs in the past, and sometimes God did that through a man I am able to identify, but rarely did I recognize the change while still interacting with him and only once do I remember acknowledging the change to that person. Nevertheless I was changed, even if almost no men could sit back and bask in the glory of their accomplishment.

 

[amadeus]

I agree to this. This was the point of my saying as far as I know. I know that there are probably quite a few things that I am mistaken about, however, I will not be swayed by anything other than solid, biblical evidence. I do acknowledge that our beliefs are based to some extent on our own interpretations and opinions. All I am saying is that we cannot be so stubborn as to ignore when we are clearly wrong.

And anyone who would easily be swayed probably was either very weak or his position or already on the verge of heading that direction anyway.

I am very much a person of the scriptures, but even on those I have changed my position or belief over the years. Consider what Apostle Paul writes here:

"Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?" II Cor 6:14

Many have determined from this that a believer in Christ should not marry and unbeliever, yet look at the situation with Hosea:

"The beginning of the word of the LORD by Hosea. And the LORD said to Hosea, Go, take unto thee a wife of whoredoms and children of whoredoms: for the land hath committed great whoredom, departing from the LORD.
So he went and took Gomer the daughter of Diblaim; which conceived, and bare him a son.' Hosea 1:2-3

Some will argue about my example being from the OT, but do we really believe that God has changed with regard to being unequally yoked so drastically as that? What it means to me is we need to have ears to hear what thus saith the Lord now and all of the time and then be obedient no matter what preconceived essential notions and/or doctrines we already hold. God did not change. His plan is the same always to accomplish His purpose which at best we still see only as through a glass darkly. What held in yesterday's situation may not hold today because while the facts appear to be same they are not. God alone always knows all of the facts for every situation.

 

[amadeus]

One of the bug-a-boos of being old, and into the Bible since third grade, is coming to the realization that, cleverly manipulated, selected verses (often MANY of them) can be used to make the Bible sound like it is saying almost anything anyone wants it to say. This very thing is what fuels the Westboro Baptist mob.

Absolutely! This is why while God does provide apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers [see Eph 4:11] for our edification, we cannot presume that they are all always where they should be.

 

[Mayflower]

How often do we base out theology on just a few verses, without regarding what the rest if the Scriptures. Many a false belief has been based on one verse that is misinterpreted. A philosophy of mine has always been to compare Scriptures with Scriptures. Especially on this forum, I have seen a spike in the amount of "opinions" that are being passed of as equal to Scripture, people who claim inspiration that the Bible clearly states are impossibilities. I would like to have a calm, meaningful discussion on the following questions.

1.) Can we agree that the Scriptures take precedence over our own personal opinions or traditions?

2.) Do we search the Scriptures diligently to support our beliefs?

3.) What are the basic doctrines of the Bible that you must hold to in order to be a Christian, according to the Scriptures?

Love this! I chose all three of them. I could search the scriptures more diligently to reference them though. It is like I know scripture well, and can talk about certain parts, but as a writer, looking up the addresses when I have a fluid thought breaks my thinking process...it is why I have been convicted to work on scripture memory again, so when there are discussions, I can at least put the addresses down.

I have been shown on this forum though, some ideas I believed that were church ideas and not Bible based doctrine. This is why I want to be more diligent in looking things up. I am grateful for this forum, because it really has put my thinking cap on.

It is important to me that when my daughter gets older, I can show her in scripture anything she wants to know while explaining in a way she can understand.

 

[Mayflower]

To do #-1, we have to admit that someone else's opinion of Scripture could take presidence over ours. Are YOU (any of you) really willing to accept that?

Truth be known, none of us are.... because we would not believe what we believe if we did not believe OUR interpretations (opinions) were the correct ones.

It is rare that any of us think deeply enough to think that our thinking could be wrong. We spend most of our time trying to show how and why we are right.

Well, yeh, I think no one knows all the right answers except for God. Truth is not relative. There is only one right answer. I think when we get to Heaven, we will understand scripture TONS better then right now. Everyone will probably be wrong about something doctrine wise, because God's ways are not our ways. Especially Revelation. My goodness!!!!

 

[Mayflower]

Oh yeh! But I think discussions are good too. Because Proverbs speaks about gaining wisdom. And wisdom comes with much searching.

 

[Willie T]

Love this! I chose all three of them. I could search the scriptures more diligently to reference them though. It is like I know scripture well, and can talk about certain parts, but as a writer, looking up the addresses when I have a fluid thought breaks my thinking process...it is why I have been convicted to work on scripture memory again, so when there are discussions, I can at least put the addresses down.

I have been shown on this forum though, some ideas I believed that were church ideas and not Bible based doctrine. This is why I want to be more diligent in looking things up. I am grateful for this forum, because it really has put my thinking cap on.

It is important to me that when my daughter gets older, I can show her in scripture anything she wants to know while explaining in a way she can understand.

Just do the work necessary to help her to never become a "proof-texter." That is no more than a modern day Pharisee. All the verses of the Bible must fit together for us and spell out the WHOLE story.

 

[Mayflower]

(Amadeus, does size 5 help you? I feel like I am yelling with size 6 type. I never thought about that. Never liked them large print books.)