Secure Eternal Salvation 2

[robert derrick]

Secure eternal salvation 1 began with a simple Scriptural proof that eternal salvation is only for them that obey Him.

The final conclusion of people trying to reject that was:

If God willed I never sin again, I wouldn't. And in heaven He does and I won't!

It is not God's will to obediently depart from iniquity while in the mortal body, but obedience against sins will only be required after the resurrection, while in the spiritual body.

I.e. eternal salvation is only for them who obey Him after the resurrection, not before.

Another declaration by OSAS is that God is 'exclusively sovereign' over their salvation, and they have neither responsibility to Him for it, nor are 'cooperators' with Him in it, and to teach such self-responsibility and cooperation in salvation is 'pride of works'.

O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:Which some professing have erred concerning the faith. Grace be with thee. Amen.

For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,

Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee.

And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.

Scripture shows that with salvation, God has put His trust in His people to keep His salvation and ministry pure from vanity and hypocrisy:

Christians are entrusted by God not to put Christ to an open shame, by publicly crucifying Christ afresh through sins and trespasses, and so making His crucifixion once again a cursed thing to be despised by the unbelievers: the cross and blood of Jesus is vain, because it does not deliver from sins and trespasses common to all flesh.

Christian responsibility in salvation is to obey Him in all things in the heart and in the body, as a testimony and witness of the truth of His saving grace through obedience to the faith of Jesus: the power of His blood being able to free His people from their sins, neither to remain servants to sins, in their mortal bodies.

Otherwise, through open sins of disobedience, Jesus' salvation is made a laughingstock and scorn to them of the world:

Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?

For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.

Hypocrites that preach unconditional salvation in sins, so sear their consciences to the truth, that they do not see their plain hypocrisy, that the rest of the world sees.

Jesus' salvation by grace has been scorned, since 'Christians' began to preach and believe they are saved through unconditional grace by faith alone, so that their sins are not 'seen' by God, though He sees the same sins in others: OSAS teaches that God is in fact a respecter of persons, judging the sins of one while excusing them of another.

The LORD is slow to anger, and great in power, and will not at all acquit the wicked.

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness...so that they are without excuse.

With salvation, God puts His trust in His people to live obediently to Him in their hearts and bodies, that none of the world my say of His Dear Son's eternal salvation:

"Oh, so you can sin like us, but you are not judged for them like us, because you 'believe in Jesus'. God sees my sins, but He doesn't see yours, because you 'have faith in Jesus'. You're not responsible for your sins and won't have to give account for them like us, because Jesus' grace has you 'covered'."

Christians are certainly responsible for God's salvation entrusted in their souls, and they are to cooperate with Him in His salvation by continual obedience to Him, that Jesus and His salvation by grace through faith be not rightly and openly scorned as a lie.

It is not about Christians that may sin and err and be forgiven through confession and repentance at the cross.

It is about having a pernicious doctrine of lies, by which their sins and errors are already forgiven, and so they have no need to repent at all:

For she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.

OSAS hypocrisy of unconditional salvation by faith alone needs no repentance from dead works, nor obedience to Jesus from the heart.

Why? Because God does not 'will it' on earth, but only later in heaven. Otherwise, of course, they would do so. Or say they say.

 

[amigo de christo]

ONLY THOSE WHO OBEY JESUS LOVE JESUS . ONLY THOSE WHO OBEY JESUS ARE TRULY HIS .
Hows that for simple truth .

 

[robert derrick]

For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

The context is of eternal salvation for all that obey Him, and so babes are those who have yet to learn obedience, even as Jesus did: when the feeling of the infirmity of our flesh does not want to obey, though we know to obey: when we don't feel like it.

For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.

Ungrown children are them that only obey, when they feel like it. They do not seek righteousness, but only that which they can get away with.

But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

Adults learn to obey, because it is the right and responsible thing to do, especially when we are responsible for the welfare of others in matters of providing for our own households. Obedience is the exercising of the faith. Faith unexercised atrophies and dies, even as the muscles for which strong meat is needed.

Heb 6 follows up with the necessity of moving on from being babies in the faith, and go on to perfection: learning to exercise the faith with obedience in all things, therefore is the perfecting of the saints.

The conclusion is them that obey, drink the rain and produce the fruit of righteousness in the lives. Them who never learn to obey as necessity of salvation, but only in matters of convenience, do not drink the righteousness of God with inward obedience of the heart, and so produce thorns and briers unto destruction:

Those who refuse to learn obedience, as necessary for obtaining eternal salvation, remain perpetual babes exposed to the elements of the world unto death. They are castaway babies as in the ancient practise of exposure.

OSAS are perpetual ungrown babies that become stillborn. They are born again into the kingdom of God to open their eyes and see the Light, and taste of the power of God, only to return to the mother's womb of the world of sin.

OSAS is one of the harlot doctrines, by which believers confessing Jesus' name are made the children of disobedience under the 'celebratory' care of their great Mother, mystery Babylon.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

The context is of eternal salvation for all that obey Him, and so babes are those who have yet to learn obedience, even as Jesus did: when the feeling of the infirmity of our flesh does not want to obey, though we know to obey: when we don't feel like it.

For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.

Ungrown children are them that only obey, when they feel like it. They do not seek righteousness, but only that which they can get away with.

But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

Adults learn to obey, because it is the right and responsible thing to do, especially when we are responsible for the welfare of others in matters of providing for our own households. Obedience is the exercising of the faith. Faith unexercised atrophies and dies, even as the muscles for which strong meat is needed.

Heb 6 follows up with the necessity of moving on from being babies in the faith, and go on to perfection: learning to exercise the faith with obedience in all things, therefore is the perfecting of the saints.

The conclusion is them that obey, drink the rain and produce the fruit of righteousness in the lives. Them who never learn to obey as necessity of salvation, but only in matters of convenience, do not drink the righteousness of God with inward obedience of the heart, and so produce thorns and briers unto destruction:

Those who refuse to learn obedience, as necessary for obtaining eternal salvation, remain perpetual babes exposed to the elements of the world unto death. They are castaway babies as in the ancient practise of exposure.

OSAS are perpetual ungrown babies that become stillborn. They are born again into the kingdom of God to open their eyes and see the Light, and taste of the power of God, only to return to the mother's womb of the world of sin.

OSAS is one of the harlot doctrines, by which believers confessing Jesus' name are made the children of disobedience under the 'celebratory' care of their great Mother, mystery Babylon.

i see nonsense is still tolerated on here.

 

[robert derrick]

i see nonsense is still tolerated on here.

No, it's not. You may go now.

 

[robert derrick]

Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

James is speaking to double-minded Christians, who want to believe in Jesus in the heart, while yet disobeying Jesus with the body.

The idea of believers playing no role in, having no part in, not being responsible for our salvation is the effort of hypocrites to separate the responsibility of their souls from the sins of their bodies: they want to believe a lie that faith and obedience are separate from one another.

They would believe in the heart, while yet disobeying in the body.

We draw nigh to God. We purify our hearts and so purify ourselves, even as He is pure.

We are to resist temptation in the spirit and in the body.

We pull down every stronghold of lust and thought of disobedience in our minds.

We are given power to become the sons of God, and so to learn obedience to Him as Jesus did, even when the flesh is weak, and the mind doesn't feel like it.

They do not overcome the infirmity of the flesh by the help of God's grace, but rather overthrow judgement against sin by help of an 'unconditional grace' that is not of God, but of the world.

OSAS is the realm of them that only obey when convenient, and so pat themselves on the back as doing good. But then when lust calls, their bodies are given to sin, while pretending their hearts are still pure by 'faith', which is not the faith of Jesus, but is the dead faith of the children of disobedience upon whom is the wrath of God.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

James is speaking to double-minded Christians, who want to believe in Jesus in the heart, while yet disobeying Jesus with the body.

The idea of believers playing no role in, having no part in, not being responsible for our salvation is the effort of hypocrites to separate the responsibility of their souls from the sins of their bodies: they want to believe a lie that faith and obedience are separate from one another.

They would believe in the heart, while yet disobeying in the body.

We draw nigh to God. We purify our hearts and so purify ourselves, even as He is pure.

We are to resist temptation in the spirit and in the body.

We pull down every stronghold of lust and thought of disobedience in our minds.

We are given power to become the sons of God, and so to learn obedience to Him as Jesus did, even when the flesh is weak, and the mind doesn't feel like it.

They do not overcome the infirmity of the flesh by the help of God's grace, but rather overthrow judgement against sin by help of an 'unconditional grace' that is not of God, but of the world.

OSAS is the realm of them that only obey when convenient, and so pat themselves on the back as doing good. But then when lust calls, their bodies are given to sin, while pretending their hearts are still pure by 'faith', which is not the faith of Jesus, but is the dead faith of the children of disobedience upon whom is the wrath of God.

you have no idea what OSAS means. Your definition shows that.

 

[robert derrick]

you have no idea what OSAS means. Your definition shows that.

Since you cannot correct it, then plainly you just don't like it being laid bare without out the fluffy window dressing, you cover yourself with.

 

[Rudometkin]

Jesus is our Salvation. He did the lawful work for those who He gives faith to. I'm not doing anything to be saved because Jesus already did it, and my best work will have me put in hell. My hope is in Jesus having me with Him.

Like what you hear? Welcome to Sovereign Grace, where God is exalted.

 

[farouk]

Jesus is our Salvation. He did the lawful work for those who He gives faith to. I'm not doing anything to be saved because Jesus already did it, and my best work will have me put in hell. My hope is in Jesus having me with Him.

Like what you hear? Welcome to Sovereign Grace, where God is exalted.

@Rudometkin Indeed; all of grace... (Ephesians 2.8-9)...

 

[robert derrick]

Jesus is our Salvation. He did the lawful work for those who He gives faith to. I'm not doing anything to be saved because Jesus already did it, and my best work will have me put in hell. My hope is in Jesus having me with Him.

Like what you hear? Welcome to Sovereign Grace, where God is exalted.

I'm not doing anything to be saved because Jesus already did it.

I've heard of people trying to boast of all they are doing, but boasting of doing nothing? Any old lump can do that.

Don't read any Scripture of anyone in this life 'already' saved. We are being saved by faith through faith of Jesus.

No Scripture says, and Ye were saved...

Not doing anything to be justified either, which is only by works of faith, lets faith be alone and dead.

Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

The modern lie of already been saved, as in been there and done that, requires no working out their salvation with fear of the Lord, running the race, no overcoming sin, no doing the word, no obeying Him for eternal salvation.

That I may win Christ. That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

No winning Christ, and no attaining to the resurrection of the dead.

Race is over, crown already guaranteed. How? By faith alone, of course.

Welcome to Sovereign Grace.

Why do people who are doing nothing, come up with all these terms not written in Scripture to justify it?

What's this 'Sovereign' grace? Don't see it in Scripture.

Is the great Goddess Grace that forbids God Himself to the sins of Her sinning children?

 

[robert derrick]

Psalm 85:
Shew us thy mercy, O LORD, and grant us thy salvation.

Surely his salvation is nigh them that fear him; that glory may dwell in our land.

I will hear what God the LORD will speak: for he will speak peace unto his people, and to his saints: but let them not turn again to folly.

Salvation is never 'had', nor 'done', but only nigh them that fear Him in this life: we are being saved by grace through faith, and eternal salvation is for them that obey Him unto the end.

Them that think themselves foolishly 'already' saved, are the same who turn again to the folly, because they have no fear of the Lord, having been already saved in sins, not being saved from sins.

Which is not the salvation of Jesus Christ, but of another gospel.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

Psalm 85:
Shew us thy mercy, O LORD, and grant us thy salvation.

Surely his salvation is nigh them that fear him; that glory may dwell in our land.

I will hear what God the LORD will speak: for he will speak peace unto his people, and to his saints: but let them not turn again to folly.

Salvation is never 'had', nor 'done', but only nigh them that fear Him in this life: we are being saved by grace through faith, and eternal salvation is for them that obey Him unto the end.

Them that think themselves foolishly 'already' saved, are the same who turn again to the folly, because they have no fear of the Lord, having been already saved in sins, not being saved from sins.

Which is not the salvation of Jesus Christ, but of another gospel.

once saved, always saved. Its Biblical.

 

[Aries]

Greetings,

Something to consider above debating scriptures and their context, do people realise when you test the validity of the OSAS premise and apply it to healing deliverance and prosperity that the OSAS believer still gets sick, still falls back into bondage, and still struggles with lack in their lives?

This should not be possible because these 3 other provisions just like salvation, equally come under the same death resurrection and atonement of Jesus.

Now you may ask yourself, why would a person even apply the OSAS premise to these other provisions?

The obvious reason is we are talking about our immortal soul and where it will spend eternity, so it is only natural to want to test the validity of the OSAS premise for reassurance.

Since the OSAS premise claims that salvation is eternal, secure, and your sins are forgiven past present and future then you would get exactly the same results when you apply the OSAS premise to healing deliverance and prosperity because they all equally come under the same death resurrection and atonement of Jesus.

So, if you applied the OSAS premise of salvation to healing deliverance and prosperity, then the OSAS believer should also be once healed always healed, once delivered always delivered and once prospered always prospered, because salvation is not a separate provision there all equally covered under the same death resurrection and atonement of Jesus.

But instead, when the OSAS premise is applied to these 3 other provisions it contradicts the OSAS premise, its supporting scriptures and questions the validity of the death resurrection and atonement of Jesus.

This becomes proof that the OSAS premise is misleading and giving OSAS believers a false sense of guaranteed security that their salvation is secure. When there is evidence that it is not and that OSAS believers have been taught misinterpreted scriptures with compelling explanations.

Now if you think that's not possible, there is not one supporting scripture or one preacher or teacher whose revelational explanations prevented the contradiction of these results like the OSAS premise claims when the OSAS premise was applied to these 3 other provisions, not one scripture or explanation made a difference.

The conclusion is this is infallible proof that the OSAS claims of salvation and sin are misleading and can prevent a person from entering the kingdom of God.

The transformation process has nothing to do with earning or working for your salvation, you are learning growing and evolving in your personal relationship with Jesus after the transition of being born again.

Sinner - salvation - born again - fellowship - baptised in water when your ready - baptised in the Spirit when your ready - discipleship - renew your mind - transform, - walk in the Spirit - develop the fruit of the Spirit in your life - love God and your neighbour as your self - confess your sins when you make mistakes - evangelize - and minister to the needs of other people.

Why does this, not once saved always saved process sound so unreasonable and excessive when it has just been proven that the OSAS premise fails its application test with all its supporting scriptures and explanations when it is applied to these other 3 provisions that were equally given by grace like salvation under the same death resurrection and atonement of Jesus?

Peace.

 

[Aries]

man, we got a competition around here on who can make the wackiest claims of Biblical doctrine. I entered your name in that competition because … WOW.

Hello

The OSAS premise is clear - eternal salvation, eternal security - sins forgiven past present and future.

The death resurrection and atonement of Jesus is clear they restore and reconcile mankind back to God and fulfill his promises and provisions back to the body of Christ.

Testing the application of the OSAS premise to other provisions under the one death resurrection and atonement of Jesus would prove that the OSAS premise is valid.

There’s nothing difficult or wacky about that.

However, when the OSAS premise is applied to these 3 other provisions and it doesn’t get the same result.

This contradicts the OSAS premise. its supporting scriptures explanations and the validity of the death resurrection and atonement of Jesus.

This then becomes evident that the OSAS premise is not eternal, secure, and questions the validity that a person’s sins are forgiven past present and future.

Simply do you have an explanation as to why the OSAS premise would fail its application test when it’s applied to these other provisions if it is accurate, valid and supported by irrefutable scriptures?

Please remove my name from the competition as I have no interest in competing or amusing you.

Peace.

 

[Heart2Soul]

Hello

The OSAS premise is clear - eternal salvation, eternal security - sins forgiven past present and future.

The death resurrection and atonement of Jesus is clear they restore and reconcile mankind back to God and fulfill his promises and provisions back to the body of Christ.

Testing the application of the OSAS premise to other provisions under the one death resurrection and atonement of Jesus would prove that the OSAS premise is valid.

There’s nothing difficult or wacky about that.

However, when the OSAS premise is applied to these 3 other provisions and it doesn’t get the same result.

This contradicts the OSAS premise. its supporting scriptures explanations and the validity of the death resurrection and atonement of Jesus.

This then becomes evident that the OSAS premise is not eternal, secure, and questions the validity that a person’s sins are forgiven past present and future.

Simply do you have an explanation as to why the OSAS premise would fail its application test when it’s applied to these other provisions if it is accurate, valid and supported by irrefutable scriptures?

Please remove my name from the competition as I have no interest in competing or amusing you.

Peace.

It is sarcasm...there is no competition that you have been entered into.

 

[Aries]

It is sarcasm...there is no competition that you have been entered into.

lol thank you.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

First off, why would you apply OSAS to something other than salvation??

second, are you saying that only saved folk are healed of sickness and will always have prosperity??

third, OSAS is Biblical. It is truth.

 

[Aries]

First off, why would you apply OSAS to something other than salvation??

second, are you saying that only saved folk are healed of sickness and will always have prosperity??

third, OSAS is Biblical. It is truth.

Greetings,

Thank you for your response.

First off, why would you apply OSAS to something other than salvation??

All provisions have already been provided for by grace and established by the death resurrection and atonement of Jesus they are all equal.

The reason is because under the OSAS premise you wouldn’t be able to just have just divine salvation you would have to have divine healing deliverance and prosperity because they all equally come under the same death resurrection and atonement of Jesus.

The price that Jesus paid for salvation was exactly the same price he paid for healing deliverance and provision they are all equal.

Don’t you realize it’s the OSAS premise that separates salvation from all the other provisions all I have done is asked you to consider applying the OSAS premise to the other provisions as evidence that when it’s applied it contradicts the OSAS premise, its supporting scriptures and the death resurrection and atonement of Jesus.

You shouldn’t have to apply the OSAS premise to the other provisions if the OSAS premise was valid it would automatically include these other provisions because it wouldn’t have a choice, they all are given by grace and are equally covered by the same death resurrection and atonement of Jesus.

Don’t you see the OSAS premise can be debated with scriptures for eternity but it only becomes exposed when it fails the application test.

If your 100 percent right you have nothing to worry about, but if your wrong you may spend eternity being punished.

This is not an attack on your Christian beliefs, this is an example of discernment to help believers reconsider their OSAS position so they don’t get deceived by the enemy and miss out on heaven.

Second, are you saying that only saved folk are healed of sickness and will always have prosperity.

I am saying that the OSAS premise claims that salvation is eternal secure and sins are forgiven past present and future, when I use this OSAS claim and apply it to healing deliverance and provision the OSAS believer should also be healed delivered and prospered past present and future.

Believers wouldn’t get a choice in the matter because the OSAS premise has already dictated the outcome for the past present and future results and all provisions have already been equally established under the one death resurrection and atonement of Jesus.

You can’t separate one provision and have one rule and one standard for this provision, and then have different rules and different standards for the other provisions they were all equally included in the same death resurrection and atonement of Jesus.

Third, OSAS is Biblical. It is truth

So, the OSAS premise is biblical truth and is supported by scriptures explanations and established by the death resurrection and atonement of Jesus.

But the same biblical truth contradicts itself and is refuted if its applied or not applied because the other provisions don’t become divine provisions under the same death resurrection and atonement of Jesus.

Which you can’t explain, regardless of the evidence findings or results.

But that’s irrelevant, because you said it’s still true hmmm.

Peace