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Secure Eternal Salvation

Discussion in 'Bible Study Forum' started by robert derrick, Nov 9, 2021.

  1. robert derrick

    robert derrick Well-Known Member

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    There is always some Scripture that concludes a matter of debate in the church:

    Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him.

    There is eternally secure salvation, just not unconditionally: there must be obedience to the faith. (Rom 1:5)

    If we are to be raised together in the likeness of His resurrection, then we must walk together in the manner of His steps by obedience.

    The forerunner of our salvation set the example of obedience, even unto the death of the cross.

    Salvation begins the race of everlasting life by grace through faith, and ends in resurrection of life with obedience to the faith by grace. Without obedience, faith is dead, and grace cannot save through dead faith.

    Once we cease obeying the faith, then we turn from the faith: a race half-run is as a cake half-turned.

    The grace of God is given to the believer for help in time of need to overcome temptation, not to be excused in sin: no person sins under grace, with grace, nor graciously.

    The grace of God is neither conditional nor unconditional, it is necessary for use in salvation. (Titus 3:14)

    We either use it, or lose it. We must grow in grace by obedience, or fall from grace by rebellion.

    If we reject the help of grace to overcome sin, then we despise the Spirit of grace for the sake of sin.

    Those rejecting grace by willful disobedience to the Word of God are not under grace, but under condemnation:

    The soul that sinneth, it shall die.

    God is not a respecter of persons, excusing the sins of one while judging the same sins of another.

    The LORD is slow to anger, and great in power, and will not at all acquit the wicked.

    Unconditional eternal security and obedience to the faith do not mix, no more than bitter water and sweet:

    Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump? Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us.

    Faith is the lump, obedience is the purge.
     
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  2. Lifelong_sinner

    Lifelong_sinner Well-Known Member

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    OSAS. Always has been, always will be Biblical.
     
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  3. Mungo

    Mungo Well-Known Member

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    The OP disproves that.
     
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  4. Lifelong_sinner

    Lifelong_sinner Well-Known Member

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    not from where im reading. Anyone who says OSAS isnt in the Bible, lacks discernment.
     
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  5. robert derrick

    robert derrick Well-Known Member

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    If there was ever a confirmation of no refute whatsoever. This is it.

    Some Scripture simply has no argument against it. Otherwise, they must argue against obedience to the faith of Jesus.

    Even sinners know the hypocrisy of 'Christians' living ungodly like themselves.

    The only thing biblical about OSAS is that it is a lie of biblical proportions.
     
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  6. robert derrick

    robert derrick Well-Known Member

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    So says the lifelong sinner.

    And darn proud of it too!

    Lifelong sinners will always believe what they want, especially them that are lifelong sinners by grace.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2021
  7. Robert Gwin

    Robert Gwin Well-Known Member

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    Very good post and subject Robert. Obedience is the key, it was disobedience that brought death into this world. As far as I know, there is no Unconditional life granted. Never has been. All of us were created (created, not procreated) to have eternal life, but it was always on the condition that we live within the guidelines of the law of God. When the vast majority of us face the test of the release of satan, and pass it, we come to life Rev 20:5, 7. At that point we gain life, but if we choose to disobey God, well, you know the consequences.
     
  8. BreadOfLife

    BreadOfLife Well-Known Member

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    The following passages of Scripture are written to BORN AGAIN CHRISTIANS.
    They are warnings for them NOT to fall back into a life of darkness or they will LOSE their secure position . . .

    Romans 11:22
    “See, then, the kindness and severity of God: severity toward those who fell, but God's kindness to you, provided you REMAIN in his kindness; otherwise you to will be cut off.”
    Paul is warning the faithful to REMAIN in God’s favor or they will lose their salvation. How can they lose what they never had?

    Hebrews 10:26-27
    “If we sin deliberately AFTER receiving KNOWLEDGE of the truth
    , there no longer remains sacrifice for sins but a fearful prospect of judgment and a flaming fire that is going to consume the adversaries.”
    This is a clear warning that falling away from God will result in the loss of our salvation. The Greek ford for “knowledge” used here is NOT the usual word (oida). This is talking about a full, experiential knowledge (epignosei). This verse is about CHRISTIANS who had an EPIGNOSIS of Christ and who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.

    2 Peter 2:20-22
    For if they, having escaped the defilements of the world through the KNOWLEDGE of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ, again become entangled and overcome by them, their last condition is worse than their first.
    For it would have been better for them not to have KNOWN the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment handed down to them.
    Here, Peter illustrates that those who had a full, experiential knowledge (epignosei) of Christ – CHRISTIANS – who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.

    Matt. 5:13
    You are the salt of the earth. But if salt loses its taste, with what can it be seasoned? It is no longer good for anything but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.
    This one is self-explanatory . . .

    1 Cor. 9:27
    "I pummel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified."
    Paul is saying that he wrestles with his own fleshly desires so that he might not fall back into sin.

    2 Peter 3:17
    Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position.
    Peter is warning the faithful not to fall back into sin and lawlessness.

    1 John 2:24
    See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. IF it does, you also will REMAIN in the Son and in the Father.
    This is an admonition to try to remain faithful.

    Rev. 3:5
    He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels.
    God cannot blot out a name that was never there in the first place. He is talking about CHRISTIANS who are already saved and how they can LOSE their salvation.

    Rev. 22:19
    And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.
    How can God “take away” somebody’s “share” of heaven if they never had it to begin with? This is about CHRISTIANS who may or may NOT make it into Heaven.


    OSAS is a man-made invention - NOT a Scriptural precept . . .
     
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  9. Pythagorean12

    Pythagorean12 Active Member

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    True. That really makes the enemy mad.

    Sealed eternally by God's holy spirit. OSAS, Once Sealed Always Sealed, as someone in our bible study once said.

    Who would ever argue against that? No, I'm not saved eternally! God calls whom he will to salvation but I, yes I, can do something to screw that up and overrule God's decision.

    That's the height of arrogance, ego-centrism, and stupidity, anyway you look at it.

    In short the fools monologue: "No eternal salvation! It's a lie! Because I am able to choose to send myself to hell after God called me by name and gave through his grace faith and salvation!"

    It would be funny if it wasn't so tragic. Maybe that's why most that think that way also think contrary to the scripture yet again, they can choose to be saved or not.

    People are people.
     
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  10. Lifelong_sinner

    Lifelong_sinner Well-Known Member

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    OSASis Biblical. What i see on this forum is a close indicator of how churches are done today. Preachers all around tell their congregations “all you have to do is believe!!” And then you end up with a bunch of false converts. I know, im one of them. Polls as well as preachers and evangelists have said for yearsss that only about 6-10% of church goers are actually saved. The key here is OSAS. If you EVER stop believing or turn away from the faith, it doesnt mean you lost your salvation, it means you never had it to begin with. You cannot lose what was gifted to you by another. You cannot earn it, you cannot lose it. This isnt hard to understand.

    OSAS is as Biblical as is the doctrine of election and they go hand in hand. The real question is, well how do i know if im genuinely converted?? Simple! If you have been born again, the Holy Spirit will live inside you and guide you. When He does something, its permanent. You goto church, get “saved” and start doing all these good things. A year later, you find you’re slipping back into old habits, not doing as much good. Guess what?? You didnt get saved. You’re slipping back not because you lost salvation, but because you never had it!!
     
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  11. farouk

    farouk Well-Known Member

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    The Lord knows the heart, but it's indeed essential in any case to make sure that the faith that is professed is truly Biblical...

    For the true believer, Romans 8 is gloriously assuring...
     
  12. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    What?

    Of Course God does that! He condemns one murderer to the lake of fire, and another murderer He welcomes with loving open arms.

    I really wonder how it is that people have taken this phrase that "God is not a respector of persons", and applied it to God like a steel trap that says there is no circumstance where God can treat one person differently from another . . . As We The Observers Judge His Action.

    God overlooked the sins of generations man for centuries upon centuries. Sin was in the world before the Law, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. And God is not a respector of persons.

    How many slavers, and murderers, and all the rest, have been forgiven their sins by God?

    Jesus said to the man laid on a bed before Him, Your sins are forgiven. Did He say that to anyone else standing there? He's not a respector of persons.

    "What you do for one you HAVE TO do for all!" Is that our demand? And that it fit our viewpoint? I mean, there can't be considerations we can't see, right?

    Much love!
     
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  13. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    Good luck on that!

    I mean, if this is in fact true, isn't everyone pretty much out of the running? No one is obedient as Jesus was obedient. Or do you think otherwise? You perhaps? Not me!! That's for sure!!

    Much love!
     
  14. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    Did Jesus learn how to obey? A bit of a learning curve?

    Much love!
     
  15. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    You learned something pleasing, and you reformed your life, to a point, for a while, but without the Holy Spirit, that's all a person can do. So yes, they slip back, because they were not changed.

    Much love!
     
  16. Pythagorean12

    Pythagorean12 Active Member

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    Maybe the yet unspoken factor needs to be said at this point.

    Maybe the shocking encounter we sometimes witness on bible forums wherein people insist is true is actually not at all biblical, regardless of their seeming passion to defend it, is because those person's are not Christian at all.
    They're instead purposed to goad, mock, ridicule, and assail our faith. And us for holding faith.

    And their satisfaction for that effort is in watching us post again and again, thinking to lead what we mistakingly perceive as sisters and brothers on the wrong path to the right one.

    Could go a long way to explain what we encounter time and again and repeatedly.
     
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  17. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    I think that's true. For myself, I try to follow the Spirit in who to respond to, and how to respond. And of some people, the lack of cogent arguments, the lack of Scriptural context, and real exegesis, the lack of fruit, mostly we just see their manners online, lack of responsive posts, name calling, the more this is all in a discussion with someone, the more I suspect they are doing just that, having a great ol' time watching the Christians chase their tails.

    And for every weak an false argument they present, I have opportunity to become more immersed in true doctrine, and it's great practice! And opportunity to study. And reveal error. And explore truth.

    But I think you are right, and I think we need to be careful about whom and how we engage.

    Much love!
     
  18. BreadOfLife

    BreadOfLife Well-Known Member

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    Wrong.
    Ignoring the truth doesn't make it ANY less true . . .

    In post #8 - I gave you ample Scriptural evidence to the contrary - which you completely ignored in favor of your man-made, 16th century invention. Until YOU can offer a Scriptural refutation of these verses - your entire argument circles the drain.

    Furthermore, in virtually EVERY instance - verses regarding salvation are CONDITIONAL on the faith and the endurance of that faith of the believer.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2021
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  19. Ronald Nolette

    Ronald Nolette Well-Known Member

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    The OP is not God nor are His Words infallible or His reinterpretations of Scripture.

    Salvation is granted by believing in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus as the full payment of all ones sins. PERIOD! To say that teh omniscient God would save someone only to take away their salvation is blaspemy against the death of Jesus!

    It also says that Jesus did not pay the penalty for all of a believers sins. Just most of of them or some of them if one wishes to believ eth e lie that slavation can be lost!

    At the moment of salvation one dies to self and is raised to newness of life. Dead men do not affect our salvation.
     
  20. Ronald Nolette

    Ronald Nolette Well-Known Member

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    OSAS is biblical!

    Colossians 3:3-4
    King James Version

    3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

    4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

    Ephesians 2:8-10
    King James Version

    8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

    9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

    10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

    Romans 10:9-13
    King James Version

    9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

    10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

    11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

    12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

    13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

    Ephesians 2:5-7
    King James Version

    5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

    6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

    7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

    Romans 8:28-39
    King James Version

    28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

    29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

    30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

    31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?

    32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

    33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

    34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

    35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

    36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

    37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

    38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

    39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

    John 10:28-29
    King James Version

    28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

    29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

    John 3:36
    King James Version

    36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

    Colossians 1:13
    Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

    Philippians 1:6
    King James Version

    6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

    Hebrews 10:14
    King James Version

    14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

    Hebrews 13:5
    King James Version

    5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.


    There are many others as well.

    Your verses you cite are all about our experience and receiving the consequences of sin in this life. what you and so many others who falsely believe one can lose their salvation fail in is that you reject the fact the sin does not sned a person to hell! Jesus died for all the sins of the world! So bad deeds do not send one ot hell.

    Also you have to conclude that Jesus did not die for all your sins if you can lose your salvation, which is sheer foolishness!

    also you forget that when one receives Christ by faith- the old man is killed and the new man is born which is being fashioned into the image of Jesus!

    We live in two truths. Positional truth and expriential truth. Positionally we are already seen as perfect, and experientially god is cutting the old habits away and replacing them with new Godly ones and Jesus will complete that good work.

    YOu call OSAS a man made theory, well believing one can lose their salvation comes direct from the pit of hell.
     
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